Apple Plans to Ditch Intel and Use Custom Mac Chips Starting in 2020

[bluecoast]

How does it benefit the consumer who has spent a significant amount of money on software designed to run on Macs with Intel architecture?

With all due respect, who is this mythical person? I can’t think of much expensive Mac software that is truly consumer centric.

Sure there’s a fair bit of prosumer content creation software out there.

And macOS gamers have always been a rare breed.

I think let’s have this conversation in a year’s time when (presumably) the marzipan APIs and App Store on the Mac are live. I’m betting that the software landscape will be significantly different after this.

 

[pankajdoharey]

Moving to Intel made sense PPC was then at a stand still. Intel aren't. Apple are the ones skipping generations of chips. Claiming the move will be due to Intels lack of development is just a crock.

Tim wants a complete lock down of the Apple ecosystem. Once you are in you are buggered. Watch the prices go up and up for anything with a fruit on it. This could be the end of a successful Apple. Sadly.

Those generations of Intel Chips had Minor if any Performance Improvements till AMD came along with their Ryzen lineup, that Intel was shocked and forced to announce their high end Xeon core as i9. Intel hasnt exactly been moving the industry forward with their pricey chips.

 

[theluggage]

How does it benefit the consumer who has spent a significant amount of money on software designed to run on Macs with Intel architecture?

For most modern software that is still actively supported, and written using the official MacOs frameworks, all the developer will have to do is hit the "Target: ARM" button in Xcode and re-compile, then spend a modest amount of time testing and fixing quirks. For "legacy" software - well, by 2020 no new Macs - even Intel ones - will be capable of running 32 bit software anyway (so that's a lot of legacy software off to silicon heaven) and the odds of those applications running on MacOS 10.15/10.16 is pretty minimal.

...and that's assuming Apple doesn't include some sort of x86 emulation (as they did with the 68k->PPC, PPC->Intel and OS 9 -> OS X transitions) which, again, should work really well with software that spends most of its time calling the various OS X frameworks.

Some of us don't have the option to not use Windows in our professional lives so it would mean not using MacOS if I only wanted to carry one laptop around

Well, there's always emulation - which has come on leaps and bounds since the good old bad old days of SoftWindows. Windows non ARM with x86 emulation is already a thing and they've got a couple of years to get the kinks out. Also, bear in mind that for years now, Visual Studio has been compiling to processor-independent "virtual machine" code rather than x86/AMD64 binary.

Apple forced to wait on Intel.... I almost laughed to death when reading that one. Apple sticks to old CPUs even when new ones are on the market for ages. Just look at mac Mini, Mac Pro, and usually also the rest of the lineup.

Well, the Mini is just a non-priority for Apple. The Pro is now a well-documented mistake which couldn't be updated to use newer processors because the design was too tightly linked to the specific details of a particular set of CPU and GPU models.

Intel is also creating marketing disasters for system builders - continually invoking the Osborne effect by starting the hype machine for each new generation of chips before it has even finished getting all the models of the previous generation released and shipping in volume. Some - admittedly not all - of Apple's tardiness has been them still waiting for the MuddyLake i7 28W 2.4GHz model with Iris Pro++ that would represent a genuine upgrade for the existing SmellyLake MBP while Dellnovohp have already slapped the first available ShinyLake chip in their flagship laptop just for the sake of a bullet point in the advert. Of course, 80% of customers just think that Intel only make three types of chip - i3 (good), i5 (better) and i7 (best) and don't realise that its far more complex than that - because that's specifically how Intel have designed their marketing.

Apple producing their own chips would be as much about controlling the publicity machine. Don't want to release new Macs this year? Simples: don't advertise any new chips that would make the old ones seem out of date.


The whole switch-to-ARM thing is a potentially good idea, that could be corrupted if Apple also use it as an excuse to dump the pro market and lock down Macs as if they were iDevices.

Of course, today's Apple might just decide that they can throw 20% of their customer base under a bus and still make more money by extracting even higher margins from the loyalists... We'll see how that plan works out over the next year or two.

As a litmus test, I'll wait and see if they launch - or, at least pre-announce - the promised new Mac Pro at WWDC. Not that I'm likely to buy one (I might have done if it was out a year ago) but as an indication of their priorities. If they don't - or if its another triumph of form over function - then, regardless of the ARM thing, I think enthusiasts and power users should start long-term planning for their current/next Mac being their last one. Not that the Windows/Linux world is notably more inviting, but at least you get a vast choice of hardware...

 

[CodeJoy]

One thing to keep in mind is that the world is moving away from apps that run on desktop computers, and towards apps and services on the web and cloud based computing. Or mobile computing, whatever. Personally I don't quite see the benefit of it. There's pretty much nothing that my iPad can do better than my desktop computer, and when I'm on the move I actually prefer to not be focused on an electronic device at all. Or I would want to do useful work, and that would pretty much require a laptop. But I get that I'm in the minority and most people have less and less need for a desktop or laptop computer. From that perspective, the whole "emulation of old apps" may be a much smaller issue than it was 10 years ago. Performance may also be much less of an issue, as most people don't really need or use anything even close to what's available today. I'm pretty sure 95% of the world's CPU's run on idle 95% of the time or more.

But for the minority of us that actually do want and need desktop or laptop computing, I think the full transition to web and mobile is far away. It's a long tail thing. And for us, it's pretty clear to me that a move to ARM would possibly have a small number of interesting benefits, but a large number of pretty serious negatives.

 

[maflynn]

This will give Tim Cook nowhere to turn when they don't update systems regularly

That was one huge issue with the old code, as I start thinking back. We had a lot of smaller developers that produced some great programs for the Macintosh, but we also had issues of not getting updates regularly. Perhaps with many developers embracing subscription based sales, this will be different today then it was back then.

Actually as far as developers are concerned most developers would be oblivious, an App written in Swift or Objective C compiles and works the same,

Not really, there are many factors in today's applications that developers need to consider. Its not as simple as just recompiling with a different set of compiler switches. That's just with new-ish apps but applications like Photoshop, or Microsoft word would need significant work, given that there's high degree of legacy code.

if memory serves me (and it frequently doesn't) people were saying the same thing, and complaining back in 2006 and beyond because their favorite apps were not updated for intel, yet many of those people made assumptions its an easy process.

Also does this mean developers who have apps like Office, or Photoshop, now need to maintain another code base? Most likely, and some smaller ones may have to decide if apple's small marketshare is worth the cost of updating/maintaining a new code base.
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One thing to keep in mind is that the world is moving away from apps that run on desktop computers, and towards apps and services on the web and cloud based computing

Agreed, and this move may be because of that. I can on some levels this can work, and it makes sense. For me, and other power-users, this move may be less positive.

I'm not wholly against or negative on this move, though I may sound like I am, but I do have some significant concerns. The transition from PPC to Intel had some very clear benefits in with the move. Moto/IBM lagged behind in CPU updates, apple was getting marginalized more and more as they were having a harder time enticing developers All that has changed in 2018, but still, as a user, I'm not seeing a clear benefit for my use case I readily admit that my use case is not everyone's.

 

[bigtomato]

This makes a lot of sense for apple. Its obvious the majority of user base for apple is on iOS and therefore moving to arm wouldn't be that much work. I can see a Mac with just arm no need to support Mac OS/x any longer giving you a choice to still use intel or pick arm. I've been waiting for this for so long and looking forward to touch screens as well. HORRAY for apple.

 

[pankajdoharey]

MuddyLake, SmellyLake , ShinyLake quite hilarious

 

[CodeJoy]

Really? Re-writing all the code again? How many more bits of software will get left by the wayside. Adobe dropped so many good bits of kit during the PowerPC to Intel transition.

I doubt that there would be any major technological obstacles if Adobe wanted to move their products to an ARM Mac. From what I understand, they have code running on a bit of everything, and it doesn't seem to be a major pain to move their products to a new platform. It would be more about marketing, and money, whether they want to, how many platforms that they want to keep supporting, etc.

 

[maflynn]

I've been waiting for this for so long and looking forward to touch screens as well

I'd say that's less likely if this rumor turns out to be true. Basically, you'll have a choice between a touch first device, like an iPad or a mouse/keyboard first device like an ARM based Mac. I don't see apple mixing the two functions

 

[bluecoast]

Sadly I’m old enough to remember the PPC to Intel transition.

Mac forums were full of people making similar arguments against that, saying it was going to be a disaster - similar as Many people here are regarding this rumour.

It was sacrilegious that a Mac should have ‘Intel Inside’ like hated Windows PCs. And no, no one was going to run Windows on their beautiful Macs!

None of the PPC compiled software was going to be ported over anytime soon. Except it was. Well, save Microsoft and Adobe, who took their time over it in a decidedly passive aggressive way (as usual).

Yep, the transition to Intel was going to be a disaster according to many many Mac aficionados of the mid 00s.

Except it wasn’t...

 

[H2SO4]

Well, so it's beginning. I wonder how many people will choose to move on from Apple due to lack of X86 support. I for one will not be buying a Mac that I cannot run windows on

You and me both. Already wondering what to do when my 5,1 dies. Don't like Windows but I need it for work if I want to remain competitive, I don't really need a Mac, just like them a lot.

 

[CodeJoy]

Sadly I’m old enough to remember the PPC to Intel transition.

You mean you have exceeded the age of 12?

I remember when Macintosh was launched and I thought it was dumb because it couldn't do color. How old must I be.

 

[DNichter]

And also tomorrow, since ARM CPUs will never gain the same prevalence in the areas were especially BSD and Linux are important.

Do we need them to be?

 

[dumastudetto]

It'll be interesting to see if Apple is capable of competing at the high-end of Intel - the chips that are inside iMac Pro and Mac Pro. This will be a challenge to say the least.

In mobile, it makes total sense to abandon Intel. Apple will be able to build new laptops with insane battery life.

The future of Mac is iPad anyway so this could be part of that transition away from legacy computing products.

 

[Guy Clark]

Sadly I’m old enough to remember the PPC to Intel transition.

Yes and I still proudly own an original G4 Mac mini running OS X 10.4.11 Tiger which was severely impeded upon the transition to Intel architecture.

The consequences of abandoning Intel architecture will be one hundred fold.

 

[MacBH928]

Wow, we will lose all the compatibility, older software(games), guessing from the iOS chips design we will have far less capable hardware.

This must be one of the worst eras of computing. Windows sucks with its tracking, privacy, and constant slow and upgrading, Apple with its mediocre hardware, high prices, and neglecting the MacOS platform, and Linux with its still complicated setup and compatibility issues.

 

[Sydde]

You mean you have exceeded the age of 12?

I remember when Macintosh was launched and I thought it was dumb because it couldn't do color. How old must I be.

The beginning of the 6502->68000 transition?

Right now, Apple is supporting 2 separate CPU architectures. In the early 90s, with Newton, they had 3 (4, if you count the IIGS). For most of their existence, they have had at least two architectures on the table (the popular iPod was ARM). If they can do this, it would all be unified under the one. I think that could be a net positive.

 

[timber]

Those generations of Intel Chips had Minor if any Performance Improvements till AMD came along with their Ryzen lineup, that Intel was shocked and forced to announce their high end Xeon core as i9. Intel hasnt exactly been moving the industry forward with their pricey chips.

So we have an IT giant that moves the industry forward slowly with pricey updates? Huuummm....

 

[yellowsub]

You mean you have exceeded the age of 12?

I remember when Macintosh was launched and I thought it was dumb because it couldn't do color. How old must I be.

I remember when Macintosh was launched and I thought it was just a cheap Lisa.

 

[Rakurai]

Wow! I remember the transition from power PC chips to Intel. Yes, I am that old and have been around Apple that long. This will be quite the transition similar to that time.

Frankly put, I’m excited especially with some of the business decisions Intel has been making as of late.

Yeah, imagine if they decided to switch back to PowerPC now. Basically the same thing.
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Apple is planning to transition from Intel chips to its own custom made Mac chips as early as 2020, reports Bloomberg.

Apple's initiative, reportedly code named "Kalamata," is part of an effort to make Macs, iPhones, and iPads work "more similarly and seamlessly together" according to unspecified sources that spoke to Bloomberg. Apple already designs its own A-series chips found in iPhones and iPads.

The Mac chip plans are said to be in the early stages of development and the transition from Intel chips to Apple chips could involve multiple steps, starting with the "Marzipan" initiative coming in iOS 12 and macOS 10.14 to allow developers to create a single app able to run on both iOS and macOS.

With its own chips, Apple would not be forced to wait on new Intel chips before being able to release updated Macs, and the company could integrate new features on a faster schedule.Apple has already begun using custom designed T1 and T2 chips in its MacBook Pro and iMac Pro machines, and the company is said to be planning to integrate additional custom co-processors in Macs coming later this year. The custom chips will also be used in the upcoming Mac Pro, which is in development.

The T1 chip, included in the MacBook Pro, powers the Touch Bar and authenticates Touch ID. The T2 chip, in the iMac Pro integrates several components including the system management controller, image signal processor, SSD controller, and a Secure Enclave with a hardware-based encryption engine.

Previous rumors have suggested Apple is interested in creating its own ARM-based core processor chips for its Mac lineup in order to reduce its dependence on Intel. Apple is also rumored to be pursuing development of its own modem chips to also reduce reliance on both Intel and Qualcomm.

A move away from Intel would have a major impact on Intel, with Apple providing approximately five percent of Intel's annual revenue. Intel stock has already dropped following the news.

Article Link: Apple Plans to Ditch Intel and Use Custom Mac Chips Starting in 2020

Great, when can I get my glorified useless iPad?

 

[moxin]

And i am just sitting here wishing to see Ryzen inside macs

 

[R2FX]

I'm not so sure. They'll need to see if there's a profit to do so.

For instance, would Adobe just kill off Lightroom classic, and force everyone to start using the newer cloud based one?

I remember the last time we transitioned over from PPC to Intel. It was a painful and slow process.

It was painful and slow for Adobe and Microsoft because their code was written in Codewarrior SDK... other developers moved much quickly and by 10.6 was introduced, nobody had any alternative but to be on Intel. Today the code could be reused for billion of iOS devices so certainly economical sense even for such undertaking is there. Plus if they would get support from IBM and other business partners it would move much faster than PPC to Intel went.

However, I don't like thinking about it because it's a change (yeah, I'm getting older) but if it comes with reimagined UI interactions and unified Apple OS + they dust off Rosetta binary to provide x86 compatibility, then why not? I intend to run my current Macs till they break (like MBP C2D 17" from 2006 that still works just fine on Snow Leopard) but eventually all will cease to connect to Internet services and then it's game over if you need to get some **** done.

On the other hand it would be nice to have a strong differentiation in HW again, not only in OS (and I'm looking forward to some creative messaging a la PPC era of the early '00ties)... would love to see in a parallel universe Steve coming proudly on stage introducing new Apple made CPU's and devices running on it

 

[DNichter]

If Apple can make their Mac software more like iOS on my iPad Pro, I will consider coming back to the Mac platform. Better apps, better features, better stability/security, and better battery life. I can see this being a major boost for the Mac as it has been stagnant for years.

 

[maflynn]

And i am just sitting here wishing to see Ryzen inside macs

That seems even less likely given this rumor

 

[mikecorp]

Rumour has it, that macrumors have actual rumour, that was rumoured by Apple.