Apple, Please stop this stupid war and work with ADOBE to include Flash in the iPad.

EnderTW

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 30, 2007
505
13
First, I do agree, Flash does not belong on the iPhone. The chip is inferior to the iPad, the screen size is not conducive to flash content, and the smaller battery is a problem.

However, the iPad would be a PERFECT solution to have flash. 1) The chip is a lot better, the A4 is based on a powerful chip, 2) the screen size is perfect for watching Hulu and other related content, 3) You now have a bigger battery.

So many people would pick this up had it had flash. The ability to sit on your couch and go to Hulu or watch videos on the fly without having to worry about what standard it is, is huge.

Now I'd even compromise, have it set so that all flash content is disabled, and the user will have to enable that specific flash content to play with a click. At least GIVE THE USER the option. The one thing I hate about Apple is that it's their philosophy that the user shouldn't have options, it's their game or the highway, which is why they're able to keep quality so high. I like that, but come on apple.

HTML5/H.264 will come on its own as more people realize it's benefits. If it takes a manufacture to disable support for the popular choice, then it goes to show, that HTML5 isn't capable. Let the websites make that conversion.
 

colmaclean

macrumors 68000
Jan 6, 2004
1,644
181
Berlin
Maybe Apple don't want you to be able to use Hulu so that you have to buy all your TV thrills through iTunes.

I love a conspiracy theory...
 

MTI

macrumors 65816
Feb 17, 2009
1,106
6
Scottsdale, AZ
Honestly, I have Hulu Desktop on the iMac I'm using right now . . . I think I've used it a half dozen times.

Flash fans, show Apple you mean business and stop buying their mobile OS products.
 

alent1234

macrumors 603
Jun 19, 2009
5,654
122
who cares? i'll just wait for the Slate to come out. Apple really screwed this up. the hardware is more than capable of playing Pandora and running other apps. Now they gave an opening to every tablet manufacturer to release products for the tens of millions of people who do stuff the iPad won't allow you to do. I bet Adobe's is getting hammered with requests to port flash to every other tablet.

this isn't copy and paste or MMS that most people don't care about. The last version of flash was downloaded a billion times shortly after it came out. everyone will be running TV ads of people playing farmville on the HP Slate or some other tablet and the iPad with it's blue boxes. it will be like the Mac/PC ads but in reverse.

history says crappier open products will beat better closed systems all the time. just like DOS/Windows killed the Mac and Unix workstations in the 1990's.
 

MacDawg

macrumors Core
Mar 20, 2004
19,708
4,274
"Between the Hedges"
who cares? i'll just wait for the Slate to come out. Apple really screwed this up. the hardware is more than capable of playing Pandora and running other apps. Now they gave an opening to every tablet manufacturer to release products for the tens of millions of people who do stuff the iPad won't allow you to do. I bet Adobe's is getting hammered with requests to port flash to every other tablet.

this isn't copy and paste or MMS that most people don't care about. The last version of flash was downloaded a billion times shortly after it came out. everyone will be running TV ads of people playing farmville on the HP Slate or some other tablet and the iPad with it's blue boxes. it will be like the Mac/PC ads but in reverse.

history says crappier open products will beat better closed systems all the time. just like DOS/Windows killed the Mac and Unix workstations in the 1990's.
FWIW, I care far more about MMS than I do about crappy Flash
And Farmville needs to die a violent death IMHO

We all think our view is the majority

Woof, Woof - Dawg
 

alent1234

macrumors 603
Jun 19, 2009
5,654
122
and farmville has something like 50 million regular users. tens of millions more use Hulu or watch TV over the network's website for free. anyone with kids needs flash because disney, Nick and other kids websites use flash. which demographic is Apple targeting with the iPad?
 

cmaier

macrumors G5
Jul 25, 2007
14,058
8,535
California
Apple - please ignore the OP and keep flash off the iPad until Adobe proves that they can do an implementation that doesn't suck.
 

MTI

macrumors 65816
Feb 17, 2009
1,106
6
Scottsdale, AZ
and farmville has something like 50 million regular users. tens of millions more use Hulu or watch TV over the network's website for free. anyone with kids needs flash because disney, Nick and other kids websites use flash. which demographic is Apple targeting with the iPad?
I've yet to see an Apple ad showing preschoolers using their products . . . however Kylie's unsupervised romps on the internet using Windows is a bit disturbing. :D
 

robfromabove

macrumors regular
Jan 14, 2010
170
0
I think the biggest reason that Flash is unavailable on both devices (and I can't find the article I read it in, either) is that

1. It allows people to bypass the App Store experience altogether, preventing them from spending money at the App Store (and remember, Apple is in the business of making money)
2. Flash-based games have the potential to install malicious spyware, etc. - Apple already has enough problems as it is trying to create a pleasant user experience with the iPhone, and there's no need to add more problems to that.
 

SnowLeopard2008

macrumors 604
Jul 4, 2008
6,772
8
Silicon Valley
It's not stupid and it's not a war. Web develops loathe Flash. Video sharing sites are transitioning to HTML5, which provides better performance; faster streaming, higher quality video, etc. YouTube and Vimeo are currently the only ones using HTML5. Besides video, Flash is found in ads. Do you want ads or a blank spot in Safari? I choose blank spot.
 

Cinemagic

macrumors 6502
Sep 26, 2007
389
1
Apple - please do what it takes to increase sales and provide a better user experience. Incorporate Flash. I want to see the "real" and "entire" web, not just the sites you say I should see. I really do have the ability to decide for myself.

HTML5 is not the answer. There are no HTML5 editors available for developers to use. The reason that YouTube has encoded using HTML5 is that Apple and Google are the ones developing HTML5. That's why they are the only ones so far.

Flash has far more use that video and ads in web pages. Look at the source of many web pages and you'll see.

Keeping people in the iTunes store is hitting the nail on the head. By eliminating Flash, Apple has virtually made their device capable of viewing their paid content only. It's not about a good user experience, it's about Apple revenue. It is true that it is easy to incorporate malicious code into Flash. This is a big problem with Flash, but it seems to be a problem for Windows and not OSX. So why is Steve so anti-Flash? Money.
 

nick9191

macrumors 68040
Feb 17, 2008
3,270
1
Britain
Flash, especially on OS X is junk software. It kills the CPU on half the Macs, how do you expect it to fair on a 1ghz ARM chip? Apple will include flash when Adobe pull there finger out and create a decent copy of flash for the OS X platform.

So many reasons not to include flash, it's dead software and will be phased out within a couple of years, we should not depend on a proprietary format for any web content, the web is an open platform, any company with any halfway decent online product have or are building an application for the iPhone/iPad (Youtube, Hulu), or are changing there site to use a different open codec (iPlayer).

Other than that, we don't get to see heaps of adverts, oh no. The sooner Flash is gone from the web, the better.
 

bzz

macrumors member
Jan 22, 2010
59
0
Apple - please do not install flash!

Apple i do plan to buy iPad and i want speed!

Apple i do not want a hot device just to read something on the internet!

P.S. Thanks to the guys that created Click2flash! I disabled the flash everywhere and it so cool :D
 

alent1234

macrumors 603
Jun 19, 2009
5,654
122
I've yet to see an Apple ad showing preschoolers using their products . . . however Kylie's unsupervised romps on the internet using Windows is a bit disturbing. :D

i have something like 30 children's apps on my iphone for my son. a lot of them in the app store
 

G4R2

macrumors 6502a
Nov 29, 2006
546
2
It's really simple. All Adobe has to do to get Flash on the iPad, and what would be best for all Flash users across the internet, is for Adobe to make Flash open source.

That way Apple, or whoever, can optimize the software for their operating systems and devices without having to wait on Adobe to get around to it. If Apple did have Flash and decided in the future to change their architecture to 64 bits or their processor to a different instruction set it would be necessary for them to wait for Adobe to alter Flash to accommodate these changes.

It's really disturbing to see so many stupidly arguing in favor of Flash when Flash is the only component of the internet that remains proprietary, when it can only be changed by Adobe, and when superior standards that are open source now exist.

That's not to say that Flash didn't play an important role in delivering certain content to the internet. But it's time for internet users to be weaned from it. If content providers wish to deliver their content they should use open standards that don't require a single company to be the gatekeeper of software and hardware optimization.
 

PhoneI

macrumors 68000
Mar 7, 2008
1,562
471
While I guess it would be nice to have flash on the iPad, can somebody please tell Adobe to fix the OSX version. Its awful.
 

Runt888

macrumors 6502a
Nov 17, 2008
837
25
I agree with the previous posters - flash is a plague that needs to go away! It's proprietary, difficult to create and maintain, and slows down browsers on all platforms. If more manufacturers would stop supporting it, standards based open solutions would quickly come to the forefront, and the internet and all its users would be better for it.

I applaude Apple for taking a stance and not including flash support (despite any other ulterior motives they may have).
 

G4R2

macrumors 6502a
Nov 29, 2006
546
2
While I guess it would be nice to have flash on the iPad, can somebody please tell Adobe to fix the OSX version. Its awful.
Adobe can't "fix" the OS X version. The reason is that Adobe insists on bypassing the OS's API's to directly access the hardware. As a design choice, both Apple and Linux don't believe that these functions should be handled by anything other than the OS. Consequently, Flash doesn't use the GPU to render video since it doesn't have access to it and instead uses the CPU for rendering which is why your fan kicks on and your resources drop when you use it.

Additionally, Adobe hasn't released a 64 bit version of the plug in. If Apple had waited for Adobe to do so we would all have to wait for 64 bit Safari. Instead, Safari now handles Flash as a separate 32 bit process so that if, and when, it crashes it doesn't take your browser out most of the time.

These are just a few of the major reasons why Flash really sucks and why the only one who really benefits from its use is Adobe. It's true that Apple has its own self motivated reasons for supporting open standards in web pages, but at least open standards are also beneficial to all internet users.

The real issue isn't Flash, just the content. An end user would be far better off with an open standard that at the system level can benefit from hardware acceleration. And an end user would also be better off if this standard was optimized by the device maker to perform at its best, not just by Adobe when and if it gets around to it.

All end users should demand that all content on the internet be delivered by open standards and not permit proprietary standards such as Flash to dominate content, let alone argue in their favor. They should also demand that Adobe make Flash open source so that all manufacturers can optimize it to work best with their devices and so that all users, regardless of what product, can have the best experience possible.
 

NoSmokingBandit

macrumors 68000
Apr 13, 2008
1,579
1
So many reasons not to include flash, it's dead software and will be phased out within a couple of years
This would be a valid argument if apple was selling the iPad a couple of years from now. But they arent, they are selling it in about 2 months. If i buy an iPad (which i wont) i would want it to work on the internet of today, not next year.

I dont get why its a hard concept to understand. Steve said the iPad will be the best browsing experience. Not the best experience 3 years from now. People buy products with the intention of using them that day, not tucking them away in a corner for years until HTML5 takes over.

I want to get rid of Flash as much as the next guy, but crippling the iPad today doesnt help the consumer one bit. Its not the customer's fault that AppStore games are little more than updated Flash games and Flash will eat into AppStore purchases. Screw the customer, right? Its more important to sell copies of "Cabbage Farmer 8" than it is to let customers use the sites they love.
 

bozzykid

macrumors 68020
Aug 11, 2009
2,176
232
An end user would be far better off with an open standard that at the system level can benefit from hardware acceleration. And an end user would also be better off if this standard was optimized by the device maker to perform at its best, not just by Adobe when and if it gets around to it.
Yeah, because Apple loves to use open systems. :rolleyes:
 

G4R2

macrumors 6502a
Nov 29, 2006
546
2
Yeah, because Apple loves to use open systems. :rolleyes:
You can choose to use and Apple product or not, and whatever strings may go with that, real or imagined.

But so long as Adobe remains the only proprietary standard on the internet, and so long as some users stupidly defend it, everyone will be at Adobe's mercy regardless of what product they're using. It doesn't matter if you're using a Mac or a PC, IE, Firefox, or Safari, you won't have a choice but to get your content through Flash.

And it's definitely true that Apple has a lot to benefit from an open source standard such as HTML 5, but unlike the situation with Adobe, every single internet user also happens to benefit. Like it or not, and whether you know it or not, we're all in the same boat with Apple on open source web standards. It just so happens that because of an addiction to Flash games or porn some users are also in bed with Adobe. It's likes a bad relationship and they're just in denial about how damaging it is.
 

foiden

macrumors 6502a
Dec 13, 2008
803
0
Good debates here. However, the real issue with HTML5 is that it'll never replace Flash until it's as easy to make apps as Flash. That's the bottom line. One reason why Flash is in so many sites is that they have some super easy programming suites to make the stuff. You could be a very light programmer, who can use a nice GUI layout tool, and make complete apps with it.

If the alternatives actually start to do this, they can actually make some ground.