Apple Pledges to Be 'Clearer and More Upfront' With iPhone Users About Battery Health and Performance in UK

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, May 22, 2019.

  1. 78Bandit macrumors 6502a

    78Bandit

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    #26
    Apple knew the batteries they had sourced were barely capable of supplying adequate power to the phone under load. As the batteries aged they rapidly got to the point the phones would just shut down unexpectedly even when the battery was showing 50% available charge. This was occurring during a period when the phones were covered by warranty or AppleCare. Rather than replacing the batteries under warranty/contract Apple took the step of throttling performance without giving customers adequate notification. The release notes only had a vague statement to the effect performance management was improved under certain circumstances.

    Most customers realize batteries are going to lose capacity as they age, but they expect reduced runtime, not random shutdowns. What Apple did was find a way to avoid having to pay to fix the problem caused by their inadequate battery specifications.
     
  2. nerdAFK macrumors 6502

    nerdAFK

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    #27
    Still there are apologist defending Apple's blatant lie?
    Why?
     
  3. PinkyMacGodess macrumors 601

    PinkyMacGodess

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest America.
    #28
    So that means they could have been 'clearer' here? Bad choice of words...
    --- Post Merged, May 22, 2019 ---
    Embarrassment? I never had battery issues, but did go through two 6+ iPhones for 'bend gate', and other issues. *sigh*
     
  4. Defthand macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    #29
    Were you two sleeping or chasing Pokemon?

    People don't have an issue with batteries aging and degrading. What people objected to is that Apple didn't acknowledge that the battery was the both the cause and solution (Frankly, the power management module is equally to blame). Instead, Apple covertly inserted a software bandaid to prevent shutdowns and the attention it was receiving. The software throttled people's phones. When asked if Apple's OS upgrades throttled older phones, Apple vehemently denied it. It was a lie.

    People who had unexpected shutdowns or noticed a lag in performance were told that their phones were operating at their potential. People assumed the current OS upgrade was beyond their phones capabilities. They bought new phones unnecessarily when a battery replacement would have sufficed.

    Even after a tech blogger revealed Apple's throttling measure, and demonstrated that a replacement battery was a solution, Apple told affected customers that their batteries passed Apple's diagnostics test. Apple continued to deny customers service if those customers wanted to buy a battery replacement. Eventually, public skepticism and numerous class action lawsuits forced Apple into offering unconditional discounted battery replacements as damage control.

    Now you have a glaring example that Apple is a typical corporation and is not the White Hat player it pretends to be.
     
  5. busuan macrumors member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    #30
    My battery stays above 80% in its whole lifetime. Excellent!
     
  6. itsmilo macrumors 68020

    itsmilo

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2016
    Location:
    Europe
    #31
    Bring back the easy view to see how much battery has been used since the last charge! Their new way of adding a whole bunch of nothing just seems like a cover up so you cannot tell if your battery is gone to crap since you do not really see how fast it’s dying on any given full charge
     
  7. scrapesleon macrumors 6502a

    scrapesleon

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2017
    Location:
    Jamaica
    #32
    So I have to read the release notes to see when you start throttle again
     
  8. TMRJIJ macrumors 68040

    TMRJIJ

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    Location:
    South Carolina, United States
    #33
    Well, it’s a good thing this is not a defect.

    Also, Joanna Stern did not have anything to do with the new Keyboard materials. Product redesigns no matter how small don’t just get made, tested, and manufactured in less than two months.
     
  9. FightTheFuture macrumors 65816

    FightTheFuture

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2003
    Location:
    that town east of ann arbor
    #34
    You’ve just described the ethos of EVERY company when facing a lawsuit.
     
  10. H2SO4 macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2008
    #35
    THEY. LIED. Period.

    Instead of telling people from the outset, that the battery was the problem they allowed their 'genius', ( I use the term loosely), to sell users another device instead of a new battery.
    Shameful and disgusting behaviour, normalised by arguments such as yours.

    This was in the face of not only genius bar complaints, forum complaints, national press stories, annnnnndddddd having the phones download diagnostics info at every sync. They absolutely, knew about and deceived customers of this issue.
     
  11. BigMcGuire, May 22, 2019
    Last edited: May 22, 2019

    BigMcGuire Contributor

    BigMcGuire

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2012
    Location:
    California
    #36
    There were a batch of bad batteries. My wife and I have had the same iPhone since the 6+.

    Our 6s+ phones were radically different from the onset. Hers lasted easily 50% as long as mine. Less than a year into ownership, her phone started randomly shutting off when heavy usage occurred (Ingress).

    I checked coconutBattery and saw her battery capacity fluctuating from 30% to 60% to 40% and then when fully charged around 90%.

    When her phone would shut off at 70%, it would restart and show 15% left.

    It got so bad that it was doing this 3-4 times a day with normal usage, so I took it into Apple.

    They plugged it into their iPad and the iPad showed: UNABLE TO COMPLETE TEST - because of problems with the phone, but the very agitated "genius" told me that our battery was green and he would do nothing about it. So we showed him how it dropped like a brick in charge with no usage and ... he watched it reboot. He shrugged his shoulders and said: "Sorry, it's green."

    So we paid the $79 to get a new battery. Apple later reimbursed us $55 on that when they did their recall program.


    I don't think they lied, they just tried to quietly fix a problem... but the consumers weren't happy. Probably not the smartest way to go about doing something, especially with educated customers watchful eye always on you.
     
  12. ghanwani macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    #37
    I’m aware of that. That’s why I say they need to provide more information about the battery’s health, not just the capacity.

    FWIW, my last battery had a peak performance life of 4 months after which performance management needed to be applied. If that is normal, one would need to spend $150 a year (SE battery replacement cost is $50) to have a battery with peak performance. I just replaced the battery a month ago for the second time so I will know if a 4 month life is typical.
     
  13. sofila macrumors 6502a

    sofila

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Location:
    Ramtop Mountains
    #38
    Apple, before the class-action news, deliberately and unilaterally refused to replace batteries for users willing to pay the amount requested at that time.
    --- Post Merged, May 22, 2019 ---
    Apple, before the class-action news, deliberately and unilaterally refused to replace batteries for users willing to pay the amount requested at that time.
    --- Post Merged, May 22, 2019 ---
    Apple, before the class-action news, deliberately and unilaterally refused to replace batteries for users willing to pay the amount requested at that time.
     
  14. BigMcGuire Contributor

    BigMcGuire

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2012
    Location:
    California
    #39
    Correct. They refused us 4-5 times until I insisted and made it VERY clear I wouldn't leave unless they fixed my wife's defective 6s+. So they did, extremely reluctantly.
     
  15. McScooby macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2005
    Location:
    The Paps of Glenn Close, Scotland.
    #40
    What am I missing, they already DO tell u if it’s being throttled, but now thanks to some quango I’m going to be pestered by some drop down notifications, no doubt when I turn the thing on that performance is lowered, WTAF?!
     
  16. apolloa macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Location:
    Time, because it rules EVERYTHING!
    #41
    Seems a bit of a sell out to Apple but the full story here:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48364208

    Would imply the CMA is being very tight lipped on its comments over the matter, Apple has as usual arrogantly claimed it already abides by the ruling so doesn’t need to change anything.

    But if Apple do not fully comply with this ruling the CMA will take them to court.
    Hmm seems the CMA still aren’t happy..
    --- Post Merged, May 22, 2019 ---
    During the battery scandals I read a fair few comments on here from people flatly refusing what you say ever happened... the defence for Apple was astoundingly arrogant I have to say, lots of Apple share holders posting I guess?
     
  17. Baymowe335 macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    #42
    Thats anecdotal and doesn’t prove that was the company’s stance. They ended up doing it in other cases and no one really has a comprehensive view of the stance. Post a statement from Apple saying they won’t replace defective batteries.

    It could have just been a poorly trained store, a bad interpretation of the policy, or we don’t have the full story on the status of the users’ iPhones.
    --- Post Merged, May 22, 2019 ---
    Because Apple has to protect their brand and quality of “fixes” on their hardware. You know how many repair places use subpar parts and techniques for repairs to save money and, oh by the way, screw the customer?

    Apple sells 300M devices annually, so the “few customers” is likely mathematically true. Apple hasn’t had failures that are so widespread, the monsoon of complaints couldn’t be stopped. They’ve had normal issues for a company of their scale and in fact, far fewer that one might expect. Apple has insanely good build quality.
     
  18. sofila macrumors 6502a

    sofila

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Location:
    Ramtop Mountains
    #43
    Apple will never release a statement "We won't change your battery no matter if you ask for it"
    "Anedoctal" "....a poorly trained store" ok. That's your usual approach, I'll leave it here
     
  19. Baymowe335 macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    #44
    Your bar for proof of a company’s stance is too low and I’m pointing that out.
     
  20. ilikewhey macrumors 6502a

    ilikewhey

    Joined:
    May 14, 2014
    Location:
    nyc upper east
    #45
    just watched it, hilarious ensured
     
  21. LordVic Suspended

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    #46
    This is nonsense.

    And it also sounds like you don't actually know what caused the issue which led to throttling.

    The batteries themselves didn't cause "spikes". what happened is that when the CPU would spike it's performance requirements, it would draw more current from the battery than the battery was capable of. Leading to random shut downs of the device.

    When a manufacturer specs a battery, they must take into account these maximum performance spikes that can draw out high sudden "jolts" of current from the battery. Apple attempted to provide insufficient overhead to the current available in their batteries, so that within 6 months to a single year, device batteries would have deteriorated to the point where there was not enough current. While battery wear does occur, for many, 1-2 years of owning a device before this happening is generally considered unacceptable.

    Apples response was to institute a cap on the CPU performance based on maximum available current, so that as the battery continued to age, the phone would continue to slow down.

    While I think it's agreeable that a slow phone is better than a phone that completely shuts down, Apple was not forthcoming initially on telling people this. They outright lied when asked initially if they throttle old devices. Then when irrefutable proof came out showing the throttled devices, They claimed "but we told everyone in patch notes!". The patch notes never mentioned throttling of the CPU, only "battery management"

    it's considered a flaw because any phone designer who is trying to make a device that lasts overspeccs the batteries so that the need to throttle due to current overdraw doesn't occur till much later in the phones life.

    it became even a bigger kerfuffle when not only did Apple initially lie, But they also didn't inform genius's or the stores what was going on. The battery tests they provided the stores did not test for maximum battery draw, only how much "gas" was in the tank. This lead to many people having batteries that passed the Apple tests, but were being throttled due to the untested component. These users were often told that they needed to replace their phone. Battery replacements were also routinely rejected by apple (even if customer was willing to pay) because it 'passed' those tests.

    I can honestly accept the design flaw. it happens. it's not like they were exploding or catching fire :p. But it's how Apple tried to bury, lie and refused to accept responsibility while behaving unethically that pissed off a lot of people. It's that position that is incredibly disingenuous to defend. And defending Apple's behaviour in this is extremely anti-consumer.
     
  22. IbisDoc macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    #47
    Apple has committed to being much "clearer and more upfront" when it intentionally throttles your iPhone, while simultaneously refusing battery replacements which would return your phone to as-new condition, all in the name of making you feel that your only option is to pay full price for a brand new iPhone.

    Way to go, Tim! Thanks!
     
  23. I7guy macrumors Core

    I7guy

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Location:
    Gotta be in it to win it
    #48
    What design defect?
    --- Post Merged, May 22, 2019 ---
    Android also shuts the phone down when the battery can’t deliver. It’s not an Apple problem.

    At any rate, to me this “kerfufle” is noise.
     
  24. Altis macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    #49
    I suspect some are AAPL shareholders masquerading as 'fans' of Apple rather than fans of every penny Apple can make them.
    --- Post Merged, May 22, 2019 ---
    I'd rather have my phone shut down or at least alert me that it has to throttle due to the battery condition.

    Instead, it slowed it down to a crawl while pretending nothing was wrong -- battery health still above the "Healthy" threshold, and refused to replace it even if you were willing to pay.
     
  25. LordVic Suspended

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    #50
    I wouldn't go that far, though we do know a few users on these forums who have outright said that they only care about APPL shares. Some of which have outright lied in their posts if they believe it helps get a sale. but we can't call them out directly as it's against forum rules

    And sure enough though, the same 5-10 users, over and over again, defend everything Apple does. Apple could literally hand these same users a steaming paper bag full of excrement and they will tell you that we should be happy Apple gave us anything. It's the same users who will also claim things like "I didn't have the keyboard problem so everyone is making it up", or "I didn't get throttled, so it's not a lot of people" and other disingenuous and downright unintelligent arguments. (we do have the ignore option just for these very people)

    Either way. Trying not to be overly negative. The battery design flaw (even if these same people refuse to accept it) is in the past and like any design flaw, it's how they respond and move forwards that should be important. And since we haven't heard yet of throttling 7s, 8s, or X devices, I believe Apple might have learned a lesson from all this. Any lesson will be more consumer friendly.
     

Share This Page