Apple Pledges to Be 'Clearer and More Upfront' With iPhone Users About Battery Health and Performance in UK

[78Bandit]

What design defect? Batteries deteriorate as they age and the found a way to extend the life of old devices by detecting and Preventing spikes caused by those old batteries that would end the device life altogether. You just have to love how the are forced to apologize for allowing customers to keep their devices longer. Instead of letting the die naturally. People are getting weird these days. It’s like the reason Mcdonalds doesn’t allow managers to feed the homeless with food they are throwing away at the end of the night. They would be legally responsible if the choked on a French Fry the gave them.

Apple knew the batteries they had sourced were barely capable of supplying adequate power to the phone under load. As the batteries aged they rapidly got to the point the phones would just shut down unexpectedly even when the battery was showing 50% available charge. This was occurring during a period when the phones were covered by warranty or AppleCare. Rather than replacing the batteries under warranty/contract Apple took the step of throttling performance without giving customers adequate notification. The release notes only had a vague statement to the effect performance management was improved under certain circumstances.

Most customers realize batteries are going to lose capacity as they age, but they expect reduced runtime, not random shutdowns. What Apple did was find a way to avoid having to pay to fix the problem caused by their inadequate battery specifications.

 

[nerdAFK]

Still there are apologist defending Apple's blatant lie?
Why?

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

So that means they could have been 'clearer' here? Bad choice of words...
[doublepost=1558540085][/doublepost]

Still there are apologist defending Apple's blatant lie?
Why?

Embarrassment? I never had battery issues, but did go through two 6+ iPhones for 'bend gate', and other issues. *sigh*

 

[Defthand]

What design defect? Batteries deteriorate as they age and the found a way to extend the life of old devices by detecting and Preventing spikes caused by those old batteries that would end the device life altogether. You just have to love how the are forced to apologize for allowing customers to keep their devices longer. Instead of letting the die naturally. People are getting weird these days. It’s like the reason Mcdonalds doesn’t allow managers to feed the homeless with food they are throwing away at the end of the night. They would be legally responsible if the choked on a French Fry the gave them.

This continues to be one of the dumbest controversies of all-time in the tech world. Other phone manufacturers simply ignored the fact that an auto-shutdown related to low voltage supply from the battery could inconvenience users...and that turned out to be the legally preferred customer approach! Such a joke.

Were you two sleeping or chasing Pokemon?

People don't have an issue with batteries aging and degrading. What people objected to is that Apple didn't acknowledge that the battery was the both the cause and solution (Frankly, the power management module is equally to blame). Instead, Apple covertly inserted a software bandaid to prevent shutdowns and the attention it was receiving. The software throttled people's phones. When asked if Apple's OS upgrades throttled older phones, Apple vehemently denied it. It was a lie.

People who had unexpected shutdowns or noticed a lag in performance were told that their phones were operating at their potential. People assumed the current OS upgrade was beyond their phones capabilities. They bought new phones unnecessarily when a battery replacement would have sufficed.

Even after a tech blogger revealed Apple's throttling measure, and demonstrated that a replacement battery was a solution, Apple told affected customers that their batteries passed Apple's diagnostics test. Apple continued to deny customers service if those customers wanted to buy a battery replacement. Eventually, public skepticism and numerous class action lawsuits forced Apple into offering unconditional discounted battery replacements as damage control.

Now you have a glaring example that Apple is a typical corporation and is not the White Hat player it pretends to be.

 

[busuan]

My battery stays above 80% in its whole lifetime. Excellent!

 

[itsmilo]

Bring back the easy view to see how much battery has been used since the last charge! Their new way of adding a whole bunch of nothing just seems like a cover up so you cannot tell if your battery is gone to crap since you do not really see how fast it’s dying on any given full charge

 

[scrapesleon]

So I have to read the release notes to see when you start throttle again

 

[TMRJIJ]

I still cannot fathom why some in here defend Apple against consumerism laws (and "Right to Repair" laws).

The classic retort "only few customers are ..." , time and time again, is always used as a template by Apple anytime a defect calls for fundamental service actions. (Replacing the top half of a MBP is as close to fundamental as there is.)

It took the respected WSJ, via Joanna Stern, to publish a parody of the keyboard fiasco for Apple to, eventually, unveil the new keyboard "materials" and the new umbrella keyboard service program that covers all first, second, and third generation keyboards [including the new one just unveiled, Third-Generation++ ?].

[WSJ, Joanna Stern]
https://www.wsj.com/video/series/jo...terflies/FCDC05B7-3D53-4D75-9444-FA0BFB5F94B5​

Well, it’s a good thing this is not a defect.

Also, Joanna Stern did not have anything to do with the new Keyboard materials. Product redesigns no matter how small don’t just get made, tested, and manufactured in less than two months.

 

[FightTheFuture]

Apple only does it because the law says so.

You’ve just described the ethos of EVERY company when facing a lawsuit.

 

[H2SO4]

What design defect? Batteries deteriorate as they age and the found a way to extend the life of old devices by detecting and Preventing spikes caused by those old batteries that would end the device life altogether. You just have to love how the are forced to apologize for allowing customers to keep their devices longer. Instead of letting the die naturally. People are getting weird these days. It’s like the reason Mcdonalds doesn’t allow managers to feed the homeless with food they are throwing away at the end of the night. They would be legally responsible if the choked on a French Fry the gave them.

THEY. LIED. Period.

Instead of telling people from the outset, that the battery was the problem they allowed their 'genius', ( I use the term loosely), to sell users another device instead of a new battery.
Shameful and disgusting behaviour, normalised by arguments such as yours.

This was in the face of not only genius bar complaints, forum complaints, national press stories, annnnnndddddd having the phones download diagnostics info at every sync. They absolutely, knew about and deceived customers of this issue.

 

[BigMcGuire]

There were a batch of bad batteries. My wife and I have had the same iPhone since the 6+.

Our 6s+ phones were radically different from the onset. Hers lasted easily 50% as long as mine. Less than a year into ownership, her phone started randomly shutting off when heavy usage occurred (Ingress).

I checked coconutBattery and saw her battery capacity fluctuating from 30% to 60% to 40% and then when fully charged around 90%.

When her phone would shut off at 70%, it would restart and show 15% left.

It got so bad that it was doing this 3-4 times a day with normal usage, so I took it into Apple.

They plugged it into their iPad and the iPad showed: UNABLE TO COMPLETE TEST - because of problems with the phone, but the very agitated "genius" told me that our battery was green and he would do nothing about it. So we showed him how it dropped like a brick in charge with no usage and ... he watched it reboot. He shrugged his shoulders and said: "Sorry, it's green."

So we paid the $79 to get a new battery. Apple later reimbursed us $55 on that when they did their recall program.


I don't think they lied, they just tried to quietly fix a problem... but the consumers weren't happy. Probably not the smartest way to go about doing something, especially with educated customers watchful eye always on you.

 

[ghanwani]

Battery Health and Battery Capacity are two different things. Degradation over time and cycles is normal regardless of the Batteries’ condition.

I’m aware of that. That’s why I say they need to provide more information about the battery’s health, not just the capacity.

FWIW, my last battery had a peak performance life of 4 months after which performance management needed to be applied. If that is normal, one would need to spend $150 a year (SE battery replacement cost is $50) to have a battery with peak performance. I just replaced the battery a month ago for the second time so I will know if a 4 month life is typical.

 

[sofila]

What design defect? Batteries deteriorate as they age and the found a way to extend the life of old devices by detecting and Preventing spikes caused by those old batteries that would end the device life altogether. You just have to love how the are forced to apologize for allowing customers to keep their devices longer. Instead of letting the die naturally. People are getting weird these days. It’s like the reason Mcdonalds doesn’t allow managers to feed the homeless with food they are throwing away at the end of the night. They would be legally responsible if the choked on a French Fry the gave them.

Apple, before the class-action news, deliberately and unilaterally refused to replace batteries for users willing to pay the amount requested at that time.
[doublepost=1558544081][/doublepost]

Don't forget your class action lawsuit to also extend to every PowerBook and MacBook you've owned since 2001.

You know, because OS X/macOS heavily throttles the CPU if it detects your battery health is low or if the battery is unplugged. This is so CPU spikes don't accidentally turn off the device immediately. Better a slower device than one which will spontaneously cut out.

Yet somehow when the exact same thing applies for a phone - arguably, where this power management is more important to prevent shut downs in a device that's exclusively portable - it somehow becomes a crazy conspiracy so consumers are forced to upgrade.

I wish they applied that same power management to my 5S, as a phone which would randomly die when I was out-and-about was far less useful than a phone which stayed alive but was a little slower.

Apple should have been more clear about what they were doing, yes. But talk about an overreaction.

Apple, before the class-action news, deliberately and unilaterally refused to replace batteries for users willing to pay the amount requested at that time.
[doublepost=1558544129][/doublepost]

Stop spreading nonsense.

Apple, before the class-action news, deliberately and unilaterally refused to replace batteries for users willing to pay the amount requested at that time.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Apple, before the class-action news, deliberately and unilaterally refused to replace batteries for users willing to pay the amount requested at that time.

Correct. They refused us 4-5 times until I insisted and made it VERY clear I wouldn't leave unless they fixed my wife's defective 6s+. So they did, extremely reluctantly.

 

[McScooby]

What am I missing, they already DO tell u if it’s being throttled, but now thanks to some quango I’m going to be pestered by some drop down notifications, no doubt when I turn the thing on that performance is lowered, WTAF?!

 

[apolloa]

Seems a bit of a sell out to Apple but the full story here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48364208

Would imply the CMA is being very tight lipped on its comments over the matter, Apple has as usual arrogantly claimed it already abides by the ruling so doesn’t need to change anything.

But if Apple do not fully comply with this ruling the CMA will take them to court.
Hmm seems the CMA still aren’t happy..
[doublepost=1558545294][/doublepost]

Correct. They refused us 4-5 times until I insisted and made it VERY clear I wouldn't leave unless they fixed my wife's defective 6s+. So they did, extremely reluctantly.

During the battery scandals I read a fair few comments on here from people flatly refusing what you say ever happened... the defence for Apple was astoundingly arrogant I have to say, lots of Apple share holders posting I guess?

 

[Baymowe335]

Apple, before the class-action news, deliberately and unilaterally refused to replace batteries for users willing to pay the amount requested at that time.
[doublepost=1558544081][/doublepost]
Apple, before the class-action news, deliberately and unilaterally refused to replace batteries for users willing to pay the amount requested at that time.
[doublepost=1558544129][/doublepost]
Apple, before the class-action news, deliberately and unilaterally refused to replace batteries for users willing to pay the amount requested at that time.

Thats anecdotal and doesn’t prove that was the company’s stance. They ended up doing it in other cases and no one really has a comprehensive view of the stance. Post a statement from Apple saying they won’t replace defective batteries.

It could have just been a poorly trained store, a bad interpretation of the policy, or we don’t have the full story on the status of the users’ iPhones.
[doublepost=1558546329][/doublepost]

I still cannot fathom why some in here defend Apple against consumerism laws (and "Right to Repair" laws).

The classic retort "only few customers are ..." , time and time again, is always used as a template by Apple anytime a defect calls for fundamental service actions. (Replacing the top half of a MBP is as close to fundamental as there is.)

It took the respected WSJ, via Joanna Stern, to publish a parody of the keyboard fiasco for Apple to, eventually, unveil the new keyboard "materials" and the new umbrella keyboard service program that covers all first, second, and third generation butterfly keyboards [including the new one just unveiled, Third-Generation++ ?].

[WSJ, Joanna Stern]
https://www.wsj.com/video/series/jo...terflies/FCDC05B7-3D53-4D75-9444-FA0BFB5F94B5​

Because Apple has to protect their brand and quality of “fixes” on their hardware. You know how many repair places use subpar parts and techniques for repairs to save money and, oh by the way, screw the customer?

Apple sells 300M devices annually, so the “few customers” is likely mathematically true. Apple hasn’t had failures that are so widespread, the monsoon of complaints couldn’t be stopped. They’ve had normal issues for a company of their scale and in fact, far fewer that one might expect. Apple has insanely good build quality.

 

[sofila]

Thats anecdotal and doesn’t prove that was the company’s stance. They ended up doing it in other cases and no one really has a comprehensive view of the stance. Post a statement from Apple saying they won’t replace defective batteries.

It could have just been a poorly trained store, a bad interpretation of the policy, or we don’t have the full story on the status of the users’ iPhones.

Apple will never release a statement "We won't change your battery no matter if you ask for it"
"Anedoctal" "....a poorly trained store" ok. That's your usual approach, I'll leave it here

 

[Baymowe335]

Apple will never release a statement "We won't change your battery no matter if you ask for it"
"Anedoctal" "....a poorly trained store" ok. That's your usual approach, I'll leave it here

Your bar for proof of a company’s stance is too low and I’m pointing that out.

 

[ilikewhey]

I still cannot fathom why some in here defend Apple against consumerism laws (and "Right to Repair" laws).

The classic retort "only few customers are ..." , time and time again, is always used as a template by Apple anytime a defect calls for fundamental service actions. (Replacing the top half of a MBP is as close to fundamental as there is.)

It took the respected WSJ, via Joanna Stern, to publish a parody of the keyboard fiasco for Apple to, eventually, unveil the new keyboard "materials" and the new umbrella keyboard service program that covers all first, second, and third generation butterfly keyboards [including the new one just unveiled, Third-Generation++ ?].

[WSJ, Joanna Stern]
https://www.wsj.com/video/series/jo...terflies/FCDC05B7-3D53-4D75-9444-FA0BFB5F94B5​

just watched it, hilarious ensured

 

[LordVic]

What design defect? Batteries deteriorate as they age and the found a way to extend the life of old devices by detecting and Preventing spikes caused by those old batteries that would end the device life altogether. You just have to love how the are forced to apologize for allowing customers to keep their devices longer. Instead of letting the die naturally. People are getting weird these days. It’s like the reason Mcdonalds doesn’t allow managers to feed the homeless with food they are throwing away at the end of the night. They would be legally responsible if the choked on a French Fry the gave them.

This is nonsense.

And it also sounds like you don't actually know what caused the issue which led to throttling.

The batteries themselves didn't cause "spikes". what happened is that when the CPU would spike it's performance requirements, it would draw more current from the battery than the battery was capable of. Leading to random shut downs of the device.

When a manufacturer specs a battery, they must take into account these maximum performance spikes that can draw out high sudden "jolts" of current from the battery. Apple attempted to provide insufficient overhead to the current available in their batteries, so that within 6 months to a single year, device batteries would have deteriorated to the point where there was not enough current. While battery wear does occur, for many, 1-2 years of owning a device before this happening is generally considered unacceptable.

Apples response was to institute a cap on the CPU performance based on maximum available current, so that as the battery continued to age, the phone would continue to slow down.

While I think it's agreeable that a slow phone is better than a phone that completely shuts down, Apple was not forthcoming initially on telling people this. They outright lied when asked initially if they throttle old devices. Then when irrefutable proof came out showing the throttled devices, They claimed "but we told everyone in patch notes!". The patch notes never mentioned throttling of the CPU, only "battery management"

it's considered a flaw because any phone designer who is trying to make a device that lasts overspeccs the batteries so that the need to throttle due to current overdraw doesn't occur till much later in the phones life.

it became even a bigger kerfuffle when not only did Apple initially lie, But they also didn't inform genius's or the stores what was going on. The battery tests they provided the stores did not test for maximum battery draw, only how much "gas" was in the tank. This lead to many people having batteries that passed the Apple tests, but were being throttled due to the untested component. These users were often told that they needed to replace their phone. Battery replacements were also routinely rejected by apple (even if customer was willing to pay) because it 'passed' those tests.

I can honestly accept the design flaw. it happens. it's not like they were exploding or catching fire . But it's how Apple tried to bury, lie and refused to accept responsibility while behaving unethically that pissed off a lot of people. It's that position that is incredibly disingenuous to defend. And defending Apple's behaviour in this is extremely anti-consumer.

 

[IbisDoc]

Apple has committed to being much "clearer and more upfront" when it intentionally throttles your iPhone, while simultaneously refusing battery replacements which would return your phone to as-new condition, all in the name of making you feel that your only option is to pay full price for a brand new iPhone.

Way to go, Tim! Thanks!

 

[I7guy]

Apple eventually apologized over its lack of communication

That's an interesting way to characterize hiding a design defect from users in order to save money on a wide recall.

What design defect?
[doublepost=1558547701][/doublepost]

This is nonsense.

And it also sounds like you don't actually know what caused the issue which led to throttling.

The batteries themselves didn't cause "spikes". what happened is that when the CPU would spike it's performance requirements, it would draw more current from the battery than the battery was capable of. Leading to random shut downs of the device.

When a manufacturer specs a battery, they must take into account these maximum performance spikes that can draw out high sudden "jolts" of current from the battery. Apple attempted to provide insufficient overhead to the current available in their batteries, so that within 6 months to a single year, device batteries would have deteriorated to the point where there was not enough current. While battery wear does occur, for many, 1-2 years of owning a device before this happening is generally considered unacceptable.

Apples response was to institute a cap on the CPU performance based on maximum available current, so that as the battery continued to age, the phone would continue to slow down.

While I think it's agreeable that a slow phone is better than a phone that completely shuts down, Apple was not forthcoming initially on telling people this. They outright lied when asked initially if they throttle old devices. Then when irrefutable proof came out showing the throttled devices, They claimed "but we told everyone in patch notes!". The patch notes never mentioned throttling of the CPU, only "battery management"

it's considered a flaw because any phone designer who is trying to make a device that lasts overspeccs the batteries so that the need to throttle due to current overdraw doesn't occur till much later in the phones life.

it became even a bigger kerfuffle when not only did Apple initially lie, But they also didn't inform genius's or the stores what was going on. The battery tests they provided the stores did not test for maximum battery draw, only how much "gas" was in the tank. This lead to many people having batteries that passed the Apple tests, but were being throttled due to the untested component. These users were often told that they needed to replace their phone. Battery replacements were also routinely rejected by apple (even if customer was willing to pay) because it 'passed' those tests.

I can honestly accept the design flaw. it happens. it's not like they were exploding or catching fire . But it's how Apple tried to bury, lie and refused to accept responsibility while behaving unethically that pissed off a lot of people. It's that position that is incredibly disingenuous to defend. And defending Apple's behaviour in this is extremely anti-consumer.

Android also shuts the phone down when the battery can’t deliver. It’s not an Apple problem.

At any rate, to me this “kerfufle” is noise.

 

[Altis]

I still cannot fathom why some in here defend Apple against consumerism laws (and "Right to Repair" laws).

The classic retort "only few customers are ..." , time and time again, is always used as a template by Apple anytime a defect calls for fundamental service actions. (Replacing the top half of a MBP is as close to fundamental as there is.)

I suspect some are AAPL shareholders masquerading as 'fans' of Apple rather than fans of every penny Apple can make them.
[doublepost=1558547895][/doublepost]

Android also shuts the phone down when the battery can’t deliver. It’s not an Apple problem.

At any rate, to me this “kerfufle” is noise.

I'd rather have my phone shut down or at least alert me that it has to throttle due to the battery condition.

Instead, it slowed it down to a crawl while pretending nothing was wrong -- battery health still above the "Healthy" threshold, and refused to replace it even if you were willing to pay.

 

[LordVic]

I suspect some are AAPL shareholders masquerading as 'fans' of Apple rather than fans of every penny Apple can make them.

I wouldn't go that far, though we do know a few users on these forums who have outright said that they only care about APPL shares. Some of which have outright lied in their posts if they believe it helps get a sale. but we can't call them out directly as it's against forum rules

And sure enough though, the same 5-10 users, over and over again, defend everything Apple does. Apple could literally hand these same users a steaming paper bag full of excrement and they will tell you that we should be happy Apple gave us anything. It's the same users who will also claim things like "I didn't have the keyboard problem so everyone is making it up", or "I didn't get throttled, so it's not a lot of people" and other disingenuous and downright unintelligent arguments. (we do have the ignore option just for these very people)

Either way. Trying not to be overly negative. The battery design flaw (even if these same people refuse to accept it) is in the past and like any design flaw, it's how they respond and move forwards that should be important. And since we haven't heard yet of throttling 7s, 8s, or X devices, I believe Apple might have learned a lesson from all this. Any lesson will be more consumer friendly.