Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Kedrosky's Article

mustang_dvs said:
(I'll reply to my own post.)

We have a WINNER!

(No, he doesn't actually use the B-word, but he gets the spirit of the contest, for sure.)

Wow - this guy is a total dolt. Here's another clip:

It is as if BMW suddenly tried to undercut Honda's Accord or Toyota's Camry. While there's no denying there is a large market for value-priced cars, by competing directly against those products BMW would be putting its margins at risk. More importantly, it would be ample reason for investors to wonder whether BMW executives had lost their minds. Why would they suddenly abandon what they did best -- engineering interesting products -- and start trying to sell family econo-boxes?

You mean like the Mini-Cooper? :rolleyes:
 
Jigglelicious said:
Now if only this success could be attributed to stellar Macintosh sales, instead of the damned iPod.

Don't get me wrong, i'm happy for Apple. But its obvious that Mac sales have not really increased due to the populatiry of the iPod like Apple originally hoped.

+20% mac sales is pretty damn good, that would push the 2% market share up to 2.4%
 
Capt Underpants said:
I couldn't be more pissed at my grandfather right now. When Apple's stock was $30, I told him to buy. Two weeks ago, I told him to buy Apple stock on January 10th. Here comes January 12th, he hasn't bought squat, and it went up $7 today...

Gosh I'm pissed...

Hehe, I bought some when it was at $16 :D
 
SiliconAddict said:
Good.
icon_evil.gif

They deserve it for not getting on the PowerBook issue before it became one in the first place. Hope PB sales tank further until they can actually come out with something that isn’t craptastic. :mad:

Ok, I'm pretty sick and tired of people saying that we should all have a 64bit Laptop. As a 1.25 mgz G4 Powerbook owner I can say that this comp is HELLA fast. I'm dead serious. I can still smoke thicker fatter noisier P4 based windows laptops.

I also consider myself a power user. Just the other day I was in the lab, connected to a 19" flat screen doing Web App development. I was working in Macromedia Flash, Photoshop, Safari, FireFox, TacoHTML, Word, PowerPoint, not to mention having mail, Adium, and iTunes open. My computer handled all this, on two screens, with ease. When I got bored I would just sit there and hit the Expose button and watch 16 windows on two screens split and contract flawlessly. It was an amazing experience. I've dabbled in Video editing, and have done movie format/codec conversation, and I'll admit that that could use some extra oomph. But really people, what are you using that is making a G4 chip choke? Or do you just want that file converted in 90% of the time?

We all lust for more power, but let's not trash on the G4 powerbooks when they are doing MORE than an adequate job, especially for 99.9% of the users that own them. There isn't a feature or port on this computer that I feel I'm missing out on. Though I must admit, this new bluetooth makes me thing my computer might finally start showing some age with outdated tech :(

Now, I would give up a G5 chip any day for more battery life, which is lacking. Also a larger faster HD would be very nice too, but that isn't up to Apple...

~Tyler

ps
If a G4 laptop isn't fast enough for you, look into getting a G5 tower...

edit: for coherency...
 
Mac OS 84...

mustang_dvs said:
(I'll reply to my own post.)

We have a WINNER!

And it took even less time than I could have expected in my most jaded dreams. I present to you, straight from Canada's National Post: Jobs' Apple gets down and dirty by Paul Kedrosky.



(No, he doesn't actually use the B-word, but he gets the spirit of the contest, for sure.)

Perhaps whats most confusing about this guys article is the fact that he's actually doing what he says he hates - publicising Apple "even though they've only got 3% market share"! I don't think he properly realises that Apple and iMacs and iPods in particular are now part of our culture - genre defining, people defining items. He's just too dumb not to realise that, and the innovations coming from Cupertino. :rolleyes:
 
Earendil said:
Ok, I'm pretty sick and tired of people saying that we should all have a 64bit Laptop. As a 1.25 mgz G4 Powerbook owner I can say that this comp is HELLA fast. I'm dead serious. I can still smoke thicker fatter noisier P4 based windows laptops.

<snip>

Agree with you 101% (one percent for each of the stores!).

The problem is, Apple/Steve have done too good a job convincing people that the G5 is such a much more powerful chip.

The reality is, for non-bus speed dependent applications (ie, the majority), then clock-for-clock a G4 is just as fast as a G5.

Consider this: when 1.67 GHz PowerBook G4s come out soon, they'll outpace both an iMac G5 and a Power Mac G5 1.6 GHz for many apps that don't depend on bus speed or disk speed (which is always going to be a limiting factor in a laptop anyway).

Plus, G4 altivec is faster than G5 altivec at the same clock speed.

But because they "know" the chip with the bigger number is faster, people have to whine for their damn PowerBook G5!
 
Wishful Thinking

Well, if Apple aren't going to get the G5 into the PowerBook anytime soon, then I predict (low probability of it actually happening, 20%?) that Apple might do something a bit more interesting in the near future. More interesting than mere 1.5 and 1.67GHz upgrades.

Sure, dual core isn't here yet, but the G4 obviously handles dual processor fine.

If a G4 can run at 1.67GHz in a Powerbook within heat and power consumption bounds, then what would it eat at 1.2GHz? 1.4GHz? If you can find a speed where you can cut power consumption in half (drop the voltage), yet the processor's speed is at least ~65% of the compared processor, then creating a standard dual processor laptop would lead to a definite increase in overall performance.

Sure, you've got to fit that extra processor into the case - it might only be viable for the 17", or maybe the 15" with a prayer. Would you buy a 2x1.25GHz PowerBook, or a 1.67GHz PowerBook?

Another reason for Apple to do this would be to beat the dual-core laptops from AMD/Intel within the next year. AMD are confident of releasing a 30W TDP dual-core processor at 1.4GHz for example. That's cool enough for a laptop in the PC arena. That processor will be on the market by the end of this year, most likely by October. Never underestimate the power of being able to say "We got there first". Luckily Apple won't compromise their design principles and make a crap laptop just to get that accolade. Hurrah for the PowerBook DP / D4 / ??.
 
Timelessblur said:
to me this raise some major red flags. It just seem to much of an increase for one year time spand. doing double digitigs % increase is high but doing triple jsut seems like something questionble is up.

I just like to say remeber enron and they where doing great and where stating this very high profit margins. Everyone believe them for a while now you have to wonder if apple is really starting to watch there stock prices and trying to make sure they keep rising by ajusting there books somewhatly. (there are tons of little dirty accounting secrets that allow for this and remember apple is for making money first and for most and high stock prices help them make more money)

Yes, but Enron was a bunch of dirty criminal republicans manipulating the energy market, their accounting books and therefore the hopes and lives of stock holders. They also used their Washington connections to change the laws and deregulate government oversight to furthur hide their dubious actions (Excuse this flame... but in my opinion they represent the downfall of America).

Apple is a profit mongering corporation like any other but they deliver a solid product and foster innovation which is a much more honest way of taking on the competition and earning your way. With or wthout the investors we've seen Apple hang in there. Way to go :D
 
Hector said:
+20% mac sales is pretty damn good, that would push the 2% market share up to 2.4%

Not really, if the computer market itself grew more than 20% (which it did), then Apple can even lose market share (which is what actually happened). We're around 1.8% now, as far as I remember. Sad!
 
m-dogg said:
The halo effect will not be overnight - It's actually doing better than I expected at this point - I got an iPod a couple months after they became available on Windows, but I just switched to an iMac this month.

...Since no-one else said it: welcome!

previously, every switch story was greeted with a good many welcome's, but I guess soon there'll be so much of those that we wouldn't have time to do anything else than to greet the enlightened. :)

Just goes to show...

By the way, great post, m-dogg.
 
Which market share though?

About market share, overall market share is not what is important. There are different markets.

home/personal computing
education
research
publishing
web design
graphics/video
small business
corporate
gaming
server

Sure you can come up with more markets and subdivide them but it is not the point. A good percentage of computers are bought in a corporate setting. Apple gets killed in this market. Apple probably doesn’t even register as a blip. This kills Apple’s overall market share and probably a big reason why Apple’s market share keeps dropping. When it comes to software, this doesn’t hurt Apple.

The gaming market Apple is week and will continue to be weak. Consoles designed for gaming though dominate this market. Apple is trying with the server market and any gains here are positive for the company.

The other markets though do matter when it comes to software availability and whether the brand survives. I would say Apple is strong in web design, graphics and publishing. They have to keep pushing IBM if they are going to maintain this segment. They are growing in the research realm because of the UNIX underpinnings. Where Apple has lost in recent years is in the educational realm. The eMac and iMac have helped stop the bleeding in these markets (the G5 iMac being a great computer for universities IMHO). I would say to keep a strong educational presence, Apple still needs to keep turning out eMacs especially for the K-5 crowd. The Mac mini’s are going to help some. The other major market is home/personal computing. I don’t know what Apple’s percentage is here but I believe this is where they are pushing to expand and where the Mac minis really come into play. Products like the iPods and Airport Express help out a great deal in this market as well. Apple is looking to expand in this market not only by getting home Windows users to switch but also to encourage more current Apple users to buy a 2nd (or 3rd etc) desktop computer for home. The mini Macs are perfect for this.

If Apple holds on in the educational, publishing, graphics, etc markets and expands in the home & research realms then I think they will do just fine even if their overall market share drops. Pushing laptop development for the PowerBooks is a must for this to happen. If Apple drops in the education and home markets, then it is in trouble. From what I have seen though, Apple is pushing hard in these markets and should be just fine (which is why they have been a successful company despite the naysayers).

Does anyone know what Apple’s market share is for home/personal computers? In the education market? That is the important data not overall market share.
 
This Brand needs an Enema?

Timelessblur said:
to me this raise some major red flags. It just seem to much of an increase for one year time spand. doing double digitigs % increase is high but doing triple jsut seems like something questionble is up.

While likening Apple to Enron is hardly an apt comparison, there are a few things to be watchful for. First, you can't have infinitely sustainable growth. No one can begrudge Apple for having a hot product that people want, and it's great that people lap those products up as fast as they can pump them out.. The stock is going up based on the expectation that it will go up more -- apple will continue pumping out industry leading products that people will gobble up. What about market saturation? Just how many iPods can someone own?

I am concerned that the increased market expectations will force more of a cultural revolution at Apple -- how will they manage their Down-Mid-Upmarket/Server customer base in balanced way and still be known as Apple? They'll have to do some strong brand engineering so that people can be comfortable with an Apple that makes 99 dollar MP3 players as well as Storage Area Networks. Does it make sense that the Apple Store shows Storage Area Networks beside 99 dollar MP3 players? They need to evolve the, and god I love this term, 'brand experience', so that they can grow these different areas of their business appropriately. I think their image is a jumble now, with 'Servers, Displays, Portables, Education, Technology, Digital Life, Services', etc... all being a jumble on their Hardware page (go check it out! It's all over the map! It's like Minimalist done Jackson Pollock). They do so much, and are trying to get it across in a minimalistic-communicative pretense -- risky (i.e. let's get into the head space of a 'new customer' -- that hasn't been inducted into all the Apple Lore -- it's a mess).

---

My thoughts on Apple's Strategy, and what I think they could do in the future (besides hiring me as a strategist):


Apple's strategy clearly tries to get people to upgrade whatever technology they sell if not every year, at least every two years. They've built fashion into their products, so to be 'hip', you have to buy the latest sexy container. Average (non affluent) people have always been put off the fact that Apple fashion technology is pretty expensive. I see the 'downmarket' move as really adopting the Target philosophy, and making fashion affordable, so everyone can have fun being cool. It's a great strategy, and I love it.

However, there are still lots of people who don't shop at Target, and want somewhat more exclusive 'Fashion Technology'. The 'Power Mac' line Apple sells should, in my opinion, *STAY EXPENSIVE* become radically better than 'high end PC's'. I couldn't imagine G5 laptops or G5 mini's until there was a carbon fiber water cooled dual CPU dual core G6 type monster, with a giant FPGA array or some such insanity. I'd buy one of those. Heck, I definately need two more 30" monitors.

I see apple starting to drop hints at the server / grid computing strategy, and while XSAN is great (and a must for any large production environment), I think that the Mini, and how they presented the big Virginia Tech super computing grid right before it is a subtle hint of what they're thinking of. I'd love to not have to buy a '1U server'. I'd love to buy a 'Mac Module' and just add its horse-power to my grid. You see evidence of this in Logic as well. One way Apple may be able to get around the single-server CPU barrier, without the high cost of entry of building a Super Computer, is to essentially build grid clustering into Macs in general, and make the entire suite use the Grid seamlessly (for rendering, compiling, etc...). Little MacModules with infiniband connectors would be ideal. Want to run more plugins in Logic 7, get some Mac Modules. Want to render that DVD faster? again, Mac Modules. Taking what they've learned with their Super Computer experiences and bringing those down-market and plug-and-play (I imagine "Infinitely Expandable") is a great way to sell. Each CPU could be something like a G5 in a slightly slimmer form factor than the Mac Mini, without a hard drive/CDROM (i.e. network boot from a master server). Gosh, I'd buy 20, maybe more if the fans were quiet!

- Paul Sop
www.paulsop.com
 
Earendil said:
Apparently, after reading this thread, it's because they all sold their stock at $20 :rolleyes: :D

I don't own any stock at all for that reason. The prevailing advice would seem to be the best at least with Apple. You should buy and hold for the long term. Only a fraction can actually make money at the gambling game.
 
mobility3 said:
Yes, but Enron was a bunch of dirty criminal republicans manipulating the energy market, their accounting books and therefore the hopes and lives of stock holders. They also used their Washington connections to change the laws and deregulate government oversight to furthur hide their dubious actions (Excuse this flame... but in my opinion they represent the downfall of America).

Apple is a profit mongering corporation like any other but they deliver a solid product and foster innovation which is a much more honest way of taking on the competition and earning your way. With or wthout the investors we've seen Apple hang in there. Way to go :D


appently no one under stands what I was meaning by using Erron as an example. Other wise it just seems to good to be true. I never said I did not think apple was making proffic but they could be inflating there profic some whatly which is very diffent than blantly lieing as bad as erron. After Erron a lot of company where caught inflating there margens for stock reason. Still goes on a lot more than you think.

Remember if something is 2 good to be true it more than likely is. Apple is starting to get close ot that for my taste and the stock is doing pretty much to well.
 
as the Sun sets

not that Sun is a major competitor to Apple, but this just makes a stark contrast to Apple's quarterly results:

"For the second quarter ended Dec. 26, the Santa Clara, Calif.-based company said it had net income of $19 million, or 1 cent per share.
...
Shares of Sun fell to $4.35 after closing at $4.58 on Nasdaq. At the height of the dot-com and telecommunications booms in 2000, the stock traded as high as $64 a share.​

way to go Apple...
 
Timelessblur said:
appently no one under stands what I was meaning by using Erron as an example. Other wise it just seems to good to be true. I never said I did not think apple was making proffic but they could be inflating there profic some whatly which is very diffent than blantly lieing as bad as erron. After Erron a lot of company where caught inflating there margens for stock reason. Still goes on a lot more than you think.

Remember if something is 2 good to be true it more than likely is. Apple is starting to get close ot that for my taste and the stock is doing pretty much to well.

Not really.

You're just looking at the raw numbers, and not how they were generated. Where is the profit coming from? Two areas: modest rise in iMac sales and other CPUs, and from extremely high iPod sales. Both of these pass the sniff test--they are very plausible occurrences, and are not out of line from past behavior.

Or are you saying that the popularity and ubiquity of iPods are illusory?
 
the flags that have raise my red flags are
how much has the stock increased over the past year? several 100% I believe

How much has the proffic increase over the past year? again a few 100%

How much as gross income increase? I think it under 20% but dont hold me to 2 it. but I know it no one keeping pass with the profic increase.

Those are where my red flags are coming up. It seems well to good to be true 9 time out of 10 when something is 2 good to be true general it is.

remove the I love apple blinders everyone has on and think if some other company pulled an increase like apple did. not one that you really cared about but saw those type of increase. what would you think? it should raise a few red flags to you.
 
Advertisement=more stores

CrackedButter said:
Maybe because they don't advertise the damn things!

Cool software, nope no adverts
Cool hardware, nope no adverts
ipod... well...

It might take them another 21 years to do so however... thats only because its taken them 21 years to finally have a "computer for the masses".

They havn't even advertised the G5 iMac yet and thats crazy, more so when they have $$$ in the bank but rely on a supposed halo effect to do it for them!

We all know how great apple products are and how they arent advertising a great amount, but you have to think about it. If apple starts to advertise via internet, television, email, anything, they are goin to have to figure out how to distribute as well as produce. There are not very many apple stores now, and that will have to change. I think that the Mini Stores should be seriously considered by apple in the near future if they want to drastically increase thier sales. Apple knows that they are goin huge here, so they are going to do the right thing. Remember, its apple folks, they know what they are doing.
 
Tomaz said:
Not really, if the computer market itself grew more than 20% (which it did), then Apple can even lose market share (which is what actually happened). We're around 1.8% now, as far as I remember. Sad!

I believe the numbers for 2004 were around 12% market growth.

http://www.forbes.com/2004/11/22/1122automarketscan10.html

This article is from Nov 22, 2004, well before this weeks Mac mini announcement and there was positive news on Apple then.
 

Attachments

  • market2.jpg
    market2.jpg
    69.8 KB · Views: 87
Good for Apple!

This is great news for Apple!

And as I said, if they released a $99 256MB iPod I'd buy it in a heartbeat, now at 512MB it is even better! I wonder how this new Shuffle-thing, and the Mac Mini will affect sales. If they will grab a piece of the other Mac-sales and iPod sales (probably will), and also how much they'll add to the total!

Exciting times! :D
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.