Apple Predicted to Discontinue 17-Inch MacBook Pro

[Macman45]

There are good Laptops with that screen resolution running Windows. They might be not as pretty, but they also get the work done. And Windows 7 isn't that bad anymore for a Windows. Have to work with it too almost on a daily basis.

After all you are working with tools on a computer. And they look the same today, no matter which OS they are running on. Of course there are some things I would miss from my Macs regarding my workflows, but overall there is nothing that would by a road block in any way...

Apple really became an evil money machine... Just that makes me uncomfortable meanwhile to use their products. It seems meanwhile that you have to figure out for yourself now which platform is the lesser of two evils: Mac or Windows. And honestly, I am not sure anymore...

I spend a great deal of my spare time re-installing Windows, updating AV and AM products for buddies still using it. There are indeed cheap laptops around for the platform...It just isn't a road I'm going down...ever. I guess I'm lucky in that my MBP is pretty new, so Apple have time to sort out new stuff...I see no reason why we can't have a 17" without an optical drive bit with a large SSD. The reliability might not be there yet on bigger solid state drives, but in a year I think it will be. Lose the HDD and the optical and you lose a lot of weight....That's fine by me, my pro is a heavy machine, but I do want that 17" screen.....Hope somebody from apple is reading this rant...

 

[KnightWRX]

That makes absolutely no sense sorry. Bigger windows (using more pixels) doesn't make up for the smaller UI elements in a higher PPI scenario at all. People tend to use the same pixel size and just get use to everything being smaller and sharper.

Using USB power external monitors is not a solution I really care for.

Nor something I do or even was talking about. Think displayport. Macbooks have had this since 2008. Using the internal GPU, you can hook up 2 external monitors. No, I'm not talking about daisy chaining either, that's a DP 1.2 feature.

Again yes they do.

Just because you have the same number of pixels does not mean the stuff is going to be the same size. People tend to zoom in more on the smaller screens and as such eat up more space.

We're not talking iPhone screen sizes here. People don't zoom into 150 PPI 15" screens.

----------

17 inch user here. Been buying the 17" since the Powerbook G4 days. Although I agree that a new retina display may even out the play field between the 15 and 17 in terms of screen real estate,

Retina displays do not increase screen real-estate. They only sharpen the ui elements and content by "pixel-doubling" everything. 2880x1800 results in the same real-estate as the current 1440x900 screens.

----------

I agree that they should raise the PPI in the screens of 13-15inch models.

No it is not the same, while the interface is relative to the screen resolution, do not forget that same resolution to smaller screen = higher pixel density. I do not want to see the same let's say 100 lines of code in a font 12 that is more or less in "real life size" same as a font 14 in my 17inch.

I do. I find anything under 130 PPI to be fischer price sized pixels. Sorry. And I have bad eyesight too. You're right it's not the same, it's even better! Heck, 13" at 1920x1200... dreamy. If only the Sony Vaio Z wasn't so expensive, I'd own one with that resolution.

----------

It's not just the Xeon or ECC ram it's about expandability, user serviceability, and yes some people need a lot of power.

And some people don't. No need to say "professionals need X". Professionals as a whole don't, why are they always lumped into a single monolithic mob that needs this stuff. Maybe you're talking about some niche of professionals ?

As a professional myself, I can attest my MacBook Air is plenty of computer. Too much for needs in fact.

SLRs are getting higher and higher MP count, the new Nik...

Ah, you're talking Photographers. So Professional Photographers. Thank you for the precision.

 

[147]

What about them? Windows has a sort of dock and a spotlight clone which is adequate for launching stuff. (...)

well, you know, it's a bit like the difference a fantastic product and it's copy. It's difficult to pinpoint the exact difference, but I still prefer the fantastic product, even though the other one is "copying it". Take the drinks: I know that Cava pretends to use the same method as the Champagne, I still feel like, overall, champagne is way better than Cava.
Mac vs. Windows is, today, the same for me: of course I can work on a PC. Yet there are a myriad of small or big differences that, when they add up, mean I just hate Windows.

If you were that eager, perhaps you wouldn't still be using a 5 year old laptop, and other people too, and sales would be higher.

lol. Eagerness is not the only factor when deciding to upgrade Have a look at "Planned Obsolescence", great book & documentary that will give you at least one reason why I don't wanna upgrade too often. Now I reckon 5 years was too long

 

[Zendokan]

As a professional myself, I can attest my MacBook Air is plenty of computer. Too much for needs in fact.

So because a 17" i7 is overkill for you, it hasn't got any right to exist?

Well being a Software Testing Engineer/Architect and Consultant:

A) I need that computing power because I'm running everything the Developer runs on his machine + the testing tools.

B) While I carry around a 17" i7 notebook of my own, I need to use the external monitors provided by the clients where I work. That can be a 27" monitor, but it can also be a 13" monitor and now with my latest customer it's a perfect square monitor (from DELL) with everyside the same length as the horizontal length of a 15" monitor (never saw these suckers before).
So I can't choose my additional monitors (in case that the client even provides one), but I can count on the 17" that I carry around.

C) the bigger form factor makes it also easier to cool, what is needed when I'm doing a certain type of performance/stress testing.

 

[KnightWRX]

So because a 17" i7 is overkill for you, it hasn't got any right to exist?

Not even close to what I said.

However, I'm not daft or blind to Apple's way. If the 17" sales are low, I will not be surprised if it disappears. My only wish is they move the 1920x1200 screen to the 15" to compensate. All I have stated in this thread, dunno why you want to make me out for a bad guy "who wants the 17" to go away". I don't give a damn about it and it's not hurting me being there.

You misconstrued my comment about "professionals". I only mean to point out, for about the 100th time, that "professionals" are varied and people abusing that word to mean "video editors, photographers" are just annoying.

Being from Belgium, maybe your first language isn't English, so I'll forgive you for the outburst.

 

[nutjob]

Not even close to what I said.

However, I'm not daft or blind to Apple's way. If the 17" sales are low, I will not be surprised if it disappears. My only wish is they move the 1920x1200 screen to the 15" to compensate. All I have stated in this thread, dunno why you want to make me out for a bad guy "who wants the 17" to go away". I don't give a damn about it and it's not hurting me being there.

You misconstrued my comment about "professionals". I only mean to point out, for about the 100th time, that "professionals" are varied and people abusing that word to mean "video editors, photographers" are just annoying.

Being from Belgium, maybe your first language isn't English, so I'll forgive you for the outburst.

The "pro market" idea is a circular one: "pro" users are users who need powerful computers, so Apple needs to make powerful computers for the "pro" market. People who argue for it just want something faster/larger/whatever because they want it. In the real world performance keeps on increasing while performance requirements are much more static, making most machines suitable for the mythical "pros", with the percentage increasing in each hardware revision.

Meanwhile, as you say, Apple will respond to demand. Apple's not going to devote valuable engineering talent to building machines that don't sell when other products are selling like hotcakes. It's all relative. Most likely Apple won't discontinue the MacBook 17" but it won't revise it very often, like the Mac Pro and the disk based iPods, for example.

----------

So because a 17" i7 is overkill for you, it hasn't got any right to exist?

Well being a Software Testing Engineer/Architect and Consultant:

A) I need that computing power because I'm running everything the Developer runs on his machine + the testing tools.

B) While I carry around a 17" i7 notebook of my own, I need to use the external monitors provided by the clients where I work. That can be a 27" monitor, but it can also be a 13" monitor and now with my latest customer it's a perfect square monitor (from DELL) with everyside the same length as the horizontal length of a 15" monitor (never saw these suckers before).
So I can't choose my additional monitors (in case that the client even provides one), but I can count on the 17" that I carry around.

C) the bigger form factor makes it also easier to cool, what is needed when I'm doing a certain type of performance/stress testing.

You really sound like like you need the 17". You, or people like you, are also 0.000000001% of the market. Apple will most likely focus on the 99.99999999% of the market who mostly read their email and browse the web.

 

[KnightWRX]

The "pro market" idea is a circular one: "pro" users are users who need powerful computers, so Apple needs to make powerful computers for the "pro" market.

No. Pro users are users who use their computers professionally. Not every profession out there that uses computers as tools require powerful computers. State the actual profession you're talking about when making such statements, because generalizing your opinion of the needs of computing power to all professionals out there just doesn't work.

I use my MBA professionally. In the exercise of my profession. It's waaaaaay too much computer for my needs, which are Terminal basically (yes, all I ever need are command line tools that ran on computers 30 years ago for my profession).

That is what I take exception to. People trying to lump all professionals into some mold of "video editors and photographers". There's more professions out there than just those 2.

 

[Zendokan]

To KnightWRX: sorry, it wasn't an outburst to you.
I have just read so much BS reasons why a 17" should be canned in this thread: "it's a full 1lbs heavier than the 15" ", "I can like see the screen from 5 tables away", "17" doesn't fit my backpack", and so on

Yes, English is my third Language (of six).

You really sound like like you need the 17". You, or people like you, are also 0.000000001% of the market. .

Don't throw numbers and percentages around that you pick out of your top hat.
Give numbers based on facts or don't give numbers at all.
Yes, people like me belong to the minority of "Professionals" and "Powerusers" that need a 17", but it's the professionals group (on 13", 15" and 17") that create the Apps that make the iDevices market thrief.
Not the best group, even if we are just a small percentage of the market and the 17inchers are even a smaller percentage of that, to alienate.

Apple will most likely focus on the 99.99999999% of the market who mostly read their email and browse the web.

^That's called the MBA and iPad crowd^

 

[3282868]

If this happens, and Pro models are discontinued, it's either Windows or hackin0sh time.

 

[NJRonbo]

Amazing people would consider going back to Windows because there might not be a 17" Macbook pro.

Not exactly criticizing those people, but as much I want another 17" Macbook Pro, if Apple discontinued it, I'd rather step down to a 15" than ever go back to Windows.

I mean...really...Windows? Would people really go back to Windows?

 

[KnightWRX]

I mean...really...Windows? Would people really go back to Windows?

Don't get to hung up on an OS. An OS doesn't do anything aside from process management, input, storage management and display. They pretty much all do that.

It's the applications. If you're a Photoshop user, your goal is using Photoshop on hardware that is appropriate for your needs, at a cost you can afford. That may be on a Mac or a Dell or an HP or whatever else.

Limiting your choices in hardware/price points because you have some "need" for an OS shows a lack of understanding of the stakes a professional faces in delivering actual work to a client/boss.

 

[NJRonbo]

Limiting your choices in hardware/price points because you have some "need" for an OS shows a lack of understanding of the stakes a professional faces in delivering actual work to a client/boss.

I am looking at this purely from an everyday user experience.

The OS itself is a major reason why Macs are so popular. I'll never go back to Windows. I don't need to deal with the viruses and registry problems. I find the OS experience to be far more refined than Windows.

 

[whitedragon101]

Lets look at the figures. Ming-Chi Kuo is the man who came up with this idea, and from his figures Apple sells 50,000 17" MBP per quarter. Thats 200,000 per year.

200,000 17" Macbook Pro's at $2499 = $499,800,000

Now lets take a guess at their profit margin :

@ 10 % = $50 million profit
@ 20 % = $100 million profit
@ 30 % = $150 million profit


Even at a 10% margin 50 million is still money worth having, added to the goodwill from those who use them and presenting a range of size options to the consumer.

(also thats assuming every 17" was a base model. It is likely a significant proportion would have ordered BTO extras).

 

[KnightWRX]

I am looking at this purely from an everyday user experience.

The OS itself is a major reason why Macs are so popular. I'll never go back to Windows. I don't need to deal with the viruses and registry problems. I find the OS experience to be far more refined than Windows.

Yes, because "zapping PRAM" or "erasing preferences" are so much better than "registry" issues. And I don't even like Windows. No OS is perfect, all have their share of issues. Frankly, I haven't had to erase any preferences on my Macs nor have I ever had "registry" issues (unless a stuck user hive which needs manual unloading on a Citrix node/Terminal Server counts as a registry issue).

And we weren't talking about everyday users, we were talking about professionals. Because it seems they are the target market for the 17". Or are we now back to "joe everyday user" ?

I get easily confused when goalposts move all over the place...

 

[bravegag]

Which percent of their customer are they cutting?

50K sales "only" for the MBP 17'', likewise the MP. However, this small sales percent could well be the segment of developers and designers working on developing apple third-party content and Mac OS X applications. I'm not so sure Apple would want to deprive developers from the right hardware ... would be like shooting its own foot.

IMHO these so called "analysts" are totally dumb.

 

[KnightWRX]

Lets look at the figures. Ming-Chi Kuo is the man who came up with this idea, and from his figures Apple sells 50,000 17" MBP per quarter. Thats 200,000 per year.

200,000 17" Macbook Pro's at $2499 = $499,800,000

Now lets take a guess at their profit margin :

@ 10 % = $50 million profit
@ 20 % = $100 million profit
@ 30 % = $150 million profit


Even at a 10% margin 50 million is still money worth having, added to the goodwill from those who use them and presenting a range of size options to the consumer.

(also thats assuming every 17" was a base model. It is likely a significant proportion would have ordered BTO extras).

Kind of shortsighted. Apple operates in a way that adds something else to that equation :

That 150 million $ profit requires X ressources to generate. Moving those ressources to a different project could result in profits of 300 million $. Apple is going to move those ressources and scrap the 17" MacBook Pro faster than you can say "but I love OS X".

Remember kids, it's not all about raw costs/profits. Otherwise, we'd still have an Xserve.

----------

50K sales "only" for the MBP 17'', likewise the MP. However, this small sales percent could well be the segment of developers and designers working on developing apple third-party content and Mac OS X applications. I'm not so sure Apple would want to deprive developers from the right hardware ... would be like shooting its own foot.

Yeah, just like 1 Xserve was used to manage installations of multiple Mac clients in Enterprise so we still have it as a sort of "gateway" product right ?

The faster you guys come to term with how Apple operates, the less disappointed you'll be when your favorite product disappears from their line-up.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Don't get to hung up on an OS. An OS doesn't do anything aside from process management, input, storage management and display. They pretty much all do that.

It's the applications. If you're a Photoshop user, your goal is using Photoshop on hardware that is appropriate for your needs, at a cost you can afford. That may be on a Mac or a Dell or an HP or whatever else.

Limiting your choices in hardware/price points because you have some "need" for an OS shows a lack of understanding of the stakes a professional faces in delivering actual work to a client/boss.

Hmm, music to my ears. Not only would I have to agree but I would also like to add that MANY "Pro" (video editing & photographers ) are dumping the Mac for the Windows workstations . . . mobile and desktop. The simple fact is that what KnightWRX is saying is SO true that you can see it happening right now.

If a media professional only used FCP and Aperture then switches to Premier and Lightroom the need for the Mac is moot. Especially if the supplementary apps are MS Office, Firefox and more rudimentary apps that are either platform agnostic or have better or equal equivalents on the PC.

Axing the 17" MBP to me means I finally get to experiment with that Dell M6600 which, albeit it HEAVY, is one mobile workstation I've longed for.

 

[Macman45]

Yes, because "zapping PRAM" or "erasing preferences" are so much better than "registry" issues. And I don't even like Windows. No OS is perfect, all have their share of issues. Frankly, I haven't had to erase any preferences on my Macs nor have I ever had "registry" issues (unless a stuck user hive which needs manual unloading on a Citrix node/Terminal Server counts as a registry issue).

And we weren't talking about everyday users, we were talking about professionals. Because it seems they are the target market for the 17". Or are we now back to "joe everyday user" ?

I get easily confused when goalposts move all over the place...

True. Even buddies who have been using the Windows platform for years come here and marvel at the way my Mac's (their words) just work..Where is the endless round of updates? Where is your AV software? Why don't you have to defrag your drives?....The list goes on. I used Windows years ago, and you get used to having to take care of all these things and more BEFORE you can do anything with a Windows PC. The only thing preventing many of my friends from crossing over is cost. Many have, and lets face it, this years must have Windows laptop / PC etc. is next years re-cycle offering. WHen you look at it like that, Mac's become a far more attractive option economically.

Second hand re-sale value on any Mac with Applecare on it is far higher than any Windows machine. It's true, they are a whole lot cheaper, and not everybody can afford to buy a Mac. But the seamless integration with OSX and IOS makes for a very happy workplace indeed.

I really couldn't run a Windows machine. Mac's are becoming far more mainstream now...It's almost a compliment that Hackers are now paying far more attention to our platform...It's a pain, but it shows that enough Mac users exist now to make these people consider writing Malware to crack OSX.

I truly hope that the 17" continues in some form, but I certainly won't be jumping ship if Apple decide to retire the format. My MBP has a good many years left in it. Plenty of time for Apple to innovate.

 

[entatlrg]

Kind of shortsighted. Apple operates in a way that adds something else to that equation :

That 150 million $ profit requires X ressources to generate. Moving those ressources to a different project could result in profits of 300 million $. Apple is going to move those ressources and scrap the 17" MacBook Pro faster than you can say "but I love OS X".

Remember kids, it's not all about raw costs/profits. Otherwise, we'd still have an Xserve.

----------



Yeah, just like 1 Xserve was used to manage installations of multiple Mac clients in Enterprise so we still have it as a sort of "gateway" product right ?

The faster you guys come to term with how Apple operates, the less disappointed you'll be when your favorite product disappears from their line-up.

Thank you Knightwrx, you really do 'know it all' don't you.

We should all stop being so foolish and just realize our experiences and opinions don't matter... only what you post is correct

You should however be told what to do with your numerous condescending posts. .

 

[KnightWRX]

True. Even buddies who have been using the Windows platform for years come here and marvel at the way my Mac's (their words) just work..Where is the endless round of updates? Where is your AV software? Why don't you have to defrag your drives?....The list goes on. I used Windows years ago, and you get used to having to take care of all these things and more BEFORE you can do anything with a Windows PC. The only thing preventing many of my friends from crossing over is cost. Many have, and lets face it, this years must have Windows laptop / PC etc. is next years re-cycle offering. WHen you look at it like that, Mac's become a far more attractive option economically.

Again, Macs have their issues. Round of updates ? I get plenty of updates. Heck, updating Safari requires a god damn reboot (why it's a browser for craps sake. Unix should only be rebooted on kernel changes). AV software ? It's called X-protect, not to mention I never ran AV software on Windows myself. Defrag drives ? No filesystem is immune to fragmentation, though it's much less of an issue with modern ones which includes NTFS (your Windows machine are using NTFS right ? Not FAT I hope...).

Look, I like OS X as much as the next guy, but even I'm not so daft as to pretend it's perfect. Far from it. Every. OS. has. issues. The grass ain't greener on the Mac side once you've actually crossed the fence.

Second hand re-sale value on any Mac with Applecare on it is far higher than any Windows machine. It's true, they are a whole lot cheaper, and not everybody can afford to buy a Mac. But the seamless integration with OSX and IOS makes for a very happy workplace indeed.

Then factor those in your purchase decision. Not everyone is an iOS user, and resale value doesn't apply to everyone either in the same way.

I really couldn't run a Windows machine.

I bet you could. That you don't want to is probably more through that you can't. I could run Windows, I don't want to. If I ever leave OS X, it's to go back to Linux.

 

[NJRonbo]

And we weren't talking about everyday users, we were talking about professionals. Because it seems they are the target market for the 17". Or are we now back to "joe everyday user" ?

I'm sorry, when were everyday users excluded from this conversation?

This potential discontinuance of the 17" MBP affects everyone.

And for the record, I do use my MBP on a professional level as well as casual.

 

[KnightWRX]

Thank you Knightwrx, you really do 'know it all' don't you.

We should all stop being so foolish and just realize our experiences and opinions don't matter... only what you post is correct

You should however be told what to do with your numerous condescending posts. .

Jesus. I'm only saying with the way Apple operates, it's daft to call analysts dumb because they say that a product could disappear from Apple's line-up, based only on "but it's profitable to Apple!". Anyone who has been a Mac user for more than 2 weeks knows Apple doesn't operate this way and considers more than just "but it's profitable!" as a criteria for keeping and supporting a product.

My posts are condescending, but those insulting the analyst aren't ? What a one-sided view... Maybe you should be told what to do with your hateful posts.

 

[sseaton1971]

Not even close to what I said.

However, I'm not daft or blind to Apple's way. If the 17" sales are low, I will not be surprised if it disappears. My only wish is they move the 1920x1200 screen to the 15" to compensate. All I have stated in this thread, dunno why you want to make me out for a bad guy "who wants the 17" to go away". I don't give a damn about it and it's not hurting me being there.

You misconstrued my comment about "professionals". I only mean to point out, for about the 100th time, that "professionals" are varied and people abusing that word to mean "video editors, photographers" are just annoying.

Being from Belgium, maybe your first language isn't English, so I'll forgive you for the outburst.

Since you have stated your opinion "for about the 100th time", maybe you have made your point to those who want to accept it. Just move on and quit trying to make the same point over and over! lol

I hope you have a sense of humor!

 

[KnightWRX]

Since you have stated your opinion "for about the 100th time", maybe you have made your point to those who want to accept it. Just move on and quit trying to make the same point over and over! lol

I hope you have a sense of humor!

Nope, not a battle I'm willing to give up. Plus it's always new people going "Pros! Pros!" without ever specifying which pros they are talking about.

Maybe one day, we'll all agree that "Pros!" are a diverse group with very very varying needs and thus generalizing to "Pros! need ECC Ram and fast processors" isn't the best thing.

 

[thekev]

Kind of shortsighted. Apple operates in a way that adds something else to that equation :

That 150 million $ profit requires X ressources to generate. Moving those ressources to a different project could result in profits of 300 million $. Apple is going to move those ressources and scrap the 17" MacBook Pro faster than you can say "but I love OS X".

Remember kids, it's not all about raw costs/profits. Otherwise, we'd still have an Xserve.

We don't really know if they're strained on resources currently for newer projects that could come from this. Regarding laptops, they're going on fairly mature designs here. I've read the redesign rumors, but we had similar rumors last year. Many of you guys read into Apple's inner workings a bit too much. Also this is another rumor that's based on nothing. It's one of those writing on the wall kinds of rumors that an analyst decided to publish without much supporting information (either that or we're just reading a dumbed down version).