Apple Preparing iOS 7.1.2 Update, Likely Addressing Email Encryption and iMessage Issues

[viacavour]

There has been a long running thread on Apple forum on this. Among others that are scattered there.

Touch ID Being Erratic

That long 73 page thread started in 7.0.

Since 7.1.1 released, only 10 or so people (fewer than 2 pages) posted in that thread.

None of my friend has any issue with TID anymore.

I don't think it's fair to say "a lot" of people still have issues with it. If you read the post, these folks' TID fail quickly. It may be edge cases for Apple to work on. Majority of the folks should be okay.

 

[SMIDG3T]

I don't think the Email encryption is a big deal but I suppose it should be fixed

It is considering it should be there in the first place.

 

[Yebubbleman]

Slightly unrelated, but why do we not have an iOS 8 rumor round-up yet?

 

[kagharaht]

That long 73 page thread started in 7.0.

Since 7.1.1 released, only 10 or so people (fewer than 2 pages) posted in that thread.

None of my friend has any issue with TID anymore.

I don't think it's fair to say "a lot" of people still have issues with it. If you read the post, these folks' TID fail quickly. It may be edge cases for Apple to work on. Majority of the folks should be okay.

Hopefully so. I've had minor issues with Touch ID, but overall it's been working quite well for me.

 

[SMIDG3T]

Slightly unrelated, but why do we not have an iOS 8 rumor round-up yet?

Hm. Very true. Maybe because we don't know a lot about it yet? Although there are a few rumours around as to what iOS 8 may include: Healthbook, redesigned NC, new default apps and a smoother and faster OS overall. If that is all iOS 8 included, I'd be very happy. Oh, and we NEED quick reply!

 

[jonnysods]

If I was going to bet, I'd say only biteSMS has a chance of showing up in iOS 8. Maybe customisable toggles if Apple thinks we can handle something that complex.

I can't see them letting us have anything that would give the phone our unique personalities. Which is ironic if you recall the 1984 TV commercial for Apple. I'm not a massive tinkerer, but I do like my phone to kind of be my own and not like everyone else's.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Let's hope iOS 8 is a nice stable, well-tested OS with as few bugs as possible.

The Snow Leopard of iOS if you will

Oh FFS why does everyone hold up Snow Leopard as this paragon of virtue.

Snow Leopard caused my single biggest data loss. Thankfully I keep backups, and Apple released a patch.

 

[Paddle1]

Slightly unrelated, but why do we not have an iOS 8 rumor round-up yet?

We do:
https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/ios-8/

 

[LordQ]

This is good, but so excited to see iOS8. Hope it brings the features that and little tweaks that those in the jailbreak community have been able to provide, some of the tweaks I have running on my phone I don't think I can do without now!

Auxo 2
Bigify
Biolockdown
Bloard
CCControls
f.lux
JellyLock7
folder customizer
slide2kill7
typestatus
BiteSMS

Love them.

I agree except with Auxo 2. That thing is the most cluttered tweak ever.

 

[sir1963nz]

We are waiting for it.

AND we have been told by Apple that in the next up-date will be fix for the bug where IOS7 does not remember the password for Authenticated Proxies.
We spent 40 minutes of the phone with them replicating the issues and passing console logs to Apple, they came back and said the issue was found and would be fixed next release.... YAY

 

[LordQ]

can't wait til they fix this goddamn iMessage issue so I can burn my iPhone and never buy one again...

Wow...

 

[C DM]

Do Apple's internal testers actually visit sites like this just to give them rumor fodder?

They likely test things by going to all kinds of sites, in particular where more iOS users might go to, just to make sure nothing strange would pop-up.

----------

Since the bug is with people who moved to Android, seems that the iMessage fix needs to be server side and nothing to do with anything that will be in 7.1.2 ?

Some things might be server side, other things might be on the client (perhaps making sure that Messages app checks whether or not the recipient can receive an iMessage more often, or processes something new sent from some server side changes, etc.).

Probably because these issues belong to a general class of messaging-SMS gateway challenges. It's quite problematic in the old SMS/MMS messaging world, which is why Apple setup iMessage in the first place. They addressed the basic challenges to deliver billions of messages globally and reliably. Now they need to address the extended cases where the users leave their world and went back to the bad SMS/MMS world on Android and regular phones.

Specific problems can be solved at the client.

Some can be fixed on the server, which Apple has attempted.

Others require the operators to fix their SMS platforms.

Yet others require discussion with the operators to decide how best to proceed.


It is like asking WhatsApp to deliver messages to a non-WhatsApp users reliably without using WhatsApp.

The upside is if Apple can deliver this 100%, they have brought all the telcos in this world forward into the 21st century. It would be Apple changing the world again.

The primary issue there is Apple not always knowing when someone who previously was able to receive iMessage is no longer set up for it. It doesn't seem like any of that would have anything to do with the carriers/operators or that there are some issues with SMS/MMS. Basically just Apple being able to know in a fast and appropriate manner when iMessage is applicable vs. when SMS/MMS would be.

 

[viacavour]

They likely test things by going to all kinds of sites, in particular where more iOS users might go to, just to make sure nothing strange would pop-up.

----------

Some things might be server side, other things might be on the client (perhaps making sure that Messages app checks whether or not the recipient can receive an iMessage more often, or processes something new sent from some server side changes, etc.).The primary issue there is Apple not always knowing when someone who previously was able to receive iMessage is no longer set up for it. It doesn't seem like any of that would have anything to do with the carriers/operators or that there are some issues with SMS/MMS. Basically just Apple being able to know in a fast and appropriate manner when iMessage is applicable vs. when SMS/MMS would be.

That's just one of the many different use cases. Even if Apple know the destination is no longer on iMessage, sometimes it can still fail to deliver to the users if the operator international SMS gateway is flakey.

From their perspective, they will see a lot more variations compared to just one blog post.


They are going a good job delivering billions of messages but the entire platform is a hefty and complex one.

 

[C DM]

That's just one of the many different use cases. Even if Apple know the destination is no longer on iMessage, sometimes it can still fail to deliver to the users if the operator international SMS gateway is flakey.

From their perspective, they will see a lot more variations compared to just one blog post.


They are going a good job delivering billions of messages but the entire platform is a hefty and complex one.

This particular issue doesn't really have much to do with some sort of other potential issues with international SMS gateways or something like that--those issues can certainly exist, but it doesn't seem they would have much to do with this particular one that is unrelated to them.

 

[viacavour]

This particular issue doesn't really have much to do with some sort of other potential issues with international SMS gateways or something like that--those issues can certainly exist, but it doesn't seem they would have much to do with this particular one that is unrelated to them.

Users don't just care about "this particular issue".

Some claimed that they have done the right thing and still didn't get the message. Now whether they actually did so is up in the air, but it is possible for any international SMS/MMS messages to get lost under load. Not just iMessage.

If Apple come up with a mechanism for users to update their iMessage status, they will still need to deal with the end-to-end delivery.

 

[C DM]

Users don't just care about "this particular issue".

Some claimed that they have done the right thing and still didn't get the message. Now whether they actually did so is up in the air, but it is possible for any international SMS/MMS messages to get lost under load. Not just iMessage.

If Apple come up with a mechanism for users to update their iMessage status, they will still need to deal with the end-to-end delivery.

It's possible it's something else, but so far it's more likely that it's still the same iMessage issue that is being discussed and seemingly getting fixed. "Doing all the right things" doesn't mean that those things actually did in fact get it all disabled correctly--that's basically one of the big parts of this particular problem, that in quite a few cases a lot of the "solutions" so far don't actually seem to do anything.

If the iMessage issue is resolved then the messages get passed on to the carrier at which point Apple's job is done and those messages work as they normally do for any other non-iMessages that people already send--if there was something wrong with that people would already run into that with those regular SMS/MMS they send to those who never had iMessage, for example. Now, if there's an actual SMS related issue beyond that which exists, then perhaps that's something else that might be there, but so far it doesn't seem like there's anything actually showing that.

 

[Kleber20]

Hope they add the full screen photo ID back when somebody calls!

 

[viacavour]

It's possible it's something else, but so far it's more likely that it's still the same iMessage issue that is being discussed and seemingly getting fixed. "Doing all the right things" doesn't mean that those things actually did in fact get it all disabled correctly--that's basically one of the big parts of this particular problem, that in quite a few cases a lot of the "solutions" so far don't actually seem to do anything.

If the iMessage issue is resolved then the messages get passed on to the carrier at which point Apple's job is done and those messages work as they normally do for any other non-iMessages that people already send--if there was something wrong with that people would already run into that with those regular SMS/MMS they send to those who never had iMessage, for example. Now, if there's an actual SMS related issue beyond that which exists, then perhaps that's something else that might be there, but so far it doesn't seem like there's anything actually showing that.

Not necessarily. iMessage has read receipt. They will need to interface with these gateways, which may be different from the standard SMS gateway interfaces.

According to the article, Apple mentioned that the issues cannot be fixed in some support calls. If it's a simple case of disabling iMessage entry, it's just a database record reset and update tool for customer care.

They will look at these complains case by case. It is reasonable for them to encounter assorted challenges given the scale and volume of iMessage.

 

[afsnyder]

Hm. Very true. Maybe because we don't know a lot about it yet? Although there are a few rumours around as to what iOS 8 may include: Healthbook, redesigned NC, new default apps and a smoother and faster OS overall. If that is all iOS 8 included, I'd be very happy. Oh, and we NEED quick reply!

Quick reply was added to OS X likely because they had time to code it in. iOS 7 was too big of an update to have time for it. From what I believe, iOS 8 should be port that feature over to iOS since they should have time after optimizing and changing the design of a few things as well as whatever other apps and reorganizing they decide to do.

 

[SMIDG3T]

Quick reply was added to OS X likely because they had time to code it in. iOS 7 was too big of an update to have time for it. From what I believe, iOS 8 should be port that feature over to iOS since they should have time after optimizing and changing the design of a few things as well as whatever other apps and reorganizing they decide to do.

Yeah, makes sense. Not long too wait now though!

 

[C DM]

Not necessarily. iMessage has read receipt. They will need to interface with these gateways, which may be different from the standard SMS gateway interfaces.

According to the article, Apple mentioned that the issues cannot be fixed in some support calls. If it's a simple case of disabling iMessage entry, it's just a database record reset and update tool for customer care.

They will look at these complains case by case. It is reasonable for them to encounter assorted challenges given the scale and volume of iMessage.

iMessage is purely on Apple's side of things, and doesn't involve the carriers/operators in any way beyond using carrier data when not on WiFi just like any other data usage on the phone (but there's nothing to point to there being some sort of carrier data issue, which would show up in more than just iMessage). The problem is that it's more than just disabling iMessage entry and/or there's some bug with it actually being properly disabled and properly communicated to the devices of other users.

 

[fallenjt]

Don't use Apple ID for iMessage

I don't use Apple ID for my iMessage, so it's only associated with my number. Once I turn off the iMessage, others with iOS devices won't be able to send "Blue" iMessage to me, but "Green" carrier message only. when I switch to non-iOS, I just need to turn it off.

 

[fallenjt]

iMessage is purely on Apple's side of things, and doesn't involve the carriers/operators in any way beyond using carrier data when not on WiFi just like any other data usage on the phone (but there's nothing to point to there being some sort of carrier data issue, which would show up in more than just iMessage). The problem is that it's more than just disabling iMessage entry and/or there's some bug with it actually being properly disabled and properly communicated to the devices of other users.

Well, some people use both phone number AND Apple ID to receive iMessages. If they have multiple devices, and only turn off the iMessage on the phone, others can still see his/her iMessage available and send iMessage to. You can only completely turn off iMessage if you also turn off everything email that you set to receive iMessage with. Most of people fail to do this when they switch phones or maybe they don't even know.

 

[C DM]

Well, some people use both phone number AND Apple ID to receive iMessages. If they have multiple devices, and only turn off the iMessage on the phone, others can still see his/her iMessage available and send iMessage to. You can only completely turn off iMessage if you also turn off everything email that you set to receive iMessage with. Most of people fail to do this when they switch phones or maybe they don't even know.

They should still be able to send an iMessage to those people using their Apple ID, it's just their Apple ID shouldn't included their phone number at that point, so that when people do try to message them using their phone number it should just be a regular SMS/MMS message.

 

[albusseverus]

I just missed a vital message that is currently 3 hours late and still not delivered.
Is this the server problems or is it because I changed phones recently?

The catch here, is that I had my iPhone 5 replaced at an Apple Store. Went through the process of registering the new phone with iMessage, and iMessage still isn't working correctly!

Anyway, I sent that other iPhone user an iMessage, and they received it instantly, but their original VITAL message, is still out there somewhere. And I suspect because it's trying to deliver it to my old phone.

And to cap it off… the VITAL message didn't show up on my iPad or Mac Book, both of which had no break in internet connection for the last 3 hours!
___________________________________

As to the other discussions here

Part of the problem is trying to integrate with SMS. It makes a good user experience when it works, and it has worked pretty well for a short time (say the 6 months leading up to 7.1), but it's prone to too many cases of failure.

I suspect it's part of the general 'too many services' malaise that just seems to be getting worse, not better, at Apple.
(See my recent rants about software quality being down the toilet at Apple.)

Here's a problem I have to deal with regularly—one relative has cheap phone service, but hideously expensive data charges, so they keep data turned off on their phone & only have internet at home on wifi.

Say that person has another iMessage device, computer or iPad - and their phone has phone service, but not internet (they're away from home) - even if you choose their phone number to Message, that Message will never arrive on the phone, even if you have Send as SMS enabled. The message will report Delivered, because one iMessage device received it, even if that phone number is not listed for iMessage on that device.

I'd love to be able to turn off the phone number as an iMessage contact on their phone, but that's not possible. If I don't know if they're at home or not, I have to send each message twice, once with iMessage, turn off iMessage on my phone and send an SMS. Then I have the joy of turning iMessage back on and acknowledging on 4 devices that I flipped a switch… gods forbid they don't reply instantly and I have to go through the whole rigmarole again!

Point here is… it's not a difficult use case - if iMessage phone doesn't have internet, send SMS to that device, whatever you do with any other devices. And I should not have to do ANYTHING special with set-ups, settings or my device when I wish to send them a message.

Apple has lost control of its software/quality. Something's changed about their small teams approach. Some penny pinching (no doubt our boy Cook, who hired the toe-cutter to run Retail and fell flat on his face) -- well he's done something to software and dropped the ball completely. Jobs had major stuff ups with software (MobileMe), but not this constant instability - one release it works, then it doesn't. [see other rants]