I don't think that is the case anymore. Apple needs India even more, because China has become a difficult market, especially with the lack of Apple Intelligence.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Pressures ByteDance and Tencent Over App Fee Loopholes in China
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Don't get get me wrong, the Authorities still have absolutely Orwellian oversight. There's a publicly known law enacted years ago that tech companies (like Tencent, WeChats owners) have to maintain all of a users 'activity logs' for 60 days so that the reverent authorities can access them if requested.
But it's so bureaucratic, anecdotally I found living there that a lot of people in a very slight position of authority might just make something disappear because if they run it up the flagpole it just makes trouble for them - and they want an easy life.
It's probably just this kind of obfuscation, rule breaking and laziness that the Government wants to shake out of tech companies in China.
Apple should be shut down for good. They blackmail others for 30% ransom. How can that be legal?
Prohibiting in-game chats in games:
That's Tim C®ook being "on the face of the earth to make great products" and "constantly focusing on innovating".
Surely you'd agree that Apple is incurring operating costs in providing a platform to discover and keep updated the WeChat app and some level of customer support to WeChat users?
Why?
They're making decent hardware products and a decent operating system.
But maybe it's about time that their App Store business is spun off and nationalised. If China can force iCloud to be operated by a Chinese company, surely they can do the same to Apple's App Store business.
Seems about par for the course, given how the U.S. is moving to force Bytedance to divest of TikTok.
Apple: "We are all for FREEDOM (*****)
(*****) On platforms where we make money, we're talking about OUR FREEDOM, not YOURS!
(*****) On platforms where we make money, we're talking about OUR FREEDOM, not YOURS!
Later Tencent will charge Apple core technology fee to connect to Tencent servers.
Apple is putting pressure on Tencent and ByteDance to make significant changes to two of China's most popular apps in order to remove loopholes that circumvent Apple's typical 30% commission, Bloomberg reports.
The loopholes are linked to mini-apps that allow users of Tencent's social-messaging app WeChat and ByteDance's short-video app Douyin to play games, hail taxis, and make online purchases without leaving the app.
Apple reportedly told both companies they need to prevent mini-app creators from including links to outside payment systems that circumvent its commission system. Apple said it would not approve future updates to WeChat or Douyin until the companies complied.
Apple also has asked Tencent to disable in-game chats between developers and users, because they can also be used to send links, according to Bloomberg. Tencent has reportedly pushed back against the idea due to the negative impact it would have on the game experience.
The report characterized the moves by Apple as "unusually aggressive" in China, suggesting they may inflame tensions at a time when its business practices are under scrutiny by antitrust regulators around the world.
An Apple spokesperson who contacted Bloomberg cited its guidelines that the sale of all digital goods must go through its system, and that its review team may reject app submissions that violate that policy.
Article Link: Apple Pressures ByteDance and Tencent Over App Fee Loopholes in China
Because Apple is probably also trying to get ahead of any anti-trust accusations that it uses its market dominance to cut special deals inaccessible to smaller devs.
Not arguing that, I’m simply pointing out that there is precedence in Apple doing this to apps from large companies after they breached terms and it’s not just limited to Chinese companies.
The effect of this kind of change won’t be immediate, if felt at all by users. Most apps function perfectly fine for months without updates and in WeChat’s case, it’s mostly web based anyways. In the past these disputes usually ended after a few weeks after the other company complies.
Yeah, so long for iPhone being a “global” phone I guess. Gonna be so funny if Chinese people who still uses iPhone register Apple ID of other regions to download WeChat that way, and circumventing some of the restrictions The Party put on Chinese app stores Along the way. I know I would do it.
Either Way, Apple is clearly biting more than they can chew. Tim Cook will surely be criticised to no end if China decides to kick Apple out immediately, and Apple instantly loses 20% of their revenue stream. Bet the stock gonna tank hard if that happens.
Either Way, Apple is clearly biting more than they can chew. Tim Cook will surely be criticised to no end if China decides to kick Apple out immediately, and Apple instantly loses 20% of their revenue stream. Bet the stock gonna tank hard if that happens.
China is unique in this way that The Party practically owns everything Chinese people and companies have. Full ownership. They will have the final say on any and all issues with no avenue to challenge. Hence the biggest wildcard here is will The Party intervene. If they do, then Apple will lose, badly, even If they are in the right.
Many people here think Tencent/Wechat may have upper-hand over Apple. But I think it's other way around due to two reasons:
1. iPhone is consider 'high end' products in China. People who use iPhone are likely to spend more in app vs people who only use cheap devices and free apps. Removing Wechat on iPhone may result significant revenue lost for Wechat
2. China government is pushing for more foreign tourists now. There are several big changes recently (Wechat Pay, Alipay for internationals, hotel laws changes...etc) Most foreign users are using iPhone. If Wechat is removed from iPhone, that means foreigners will have no way to pay most of items in China. Bad reputations from tourists due to payment issue is the last thing China government wanted to see at this point. So it's possible for Tencent to comply with Apple because they don't want to take opposite direction against the government.
1. iPhone is consider 'high end' products in China. People who use iPhone are likely to spend more in app vs people who only use cheap devices and free apps. Removing Wechat on iPhone may result significant revenue lost for Wechat
2. China government is pushing for more foreign tourists now. There are several big changes recently (Wechat Pay, Alipay for internationals, hotel laws changes...etc) Most foreign users are using iPhone. If Wechat is removed from iPhone, that means foreigners will have no way to pay most of items in China. Bad reputations from tourists due to payment issue is the last thing China government wanted to see at this point. So it's possible for Tencent to comply with Apple because they don't want to take opposite direction against the government.
No other way for foreigners to pay for most items in China without WeChat? Alipay? Credit card? Cash?
Regarding Apple having the upper hand... I of course have to respectfully disagree.
You wouldn‘t. And mainland Chinese wouldn’t either - the government would just order Apple to prevent downloading from other, international stores effectively. And that’s it, end of story.
And Apple wouldn’t even have to invent or develop the technology to comply.
They‘ve already done so in preparation for the European DMA:
https://9to5mac.com/2024/01/25/apple-check-iphone-eligible-sideloading/
https://theapplewiki.com/wiki/Eligibility
Apple have become masters at limiting their
Don‘t forget Apple‘s (Foxconn’s) Chinese manufacturing as a bargaining chip - although that goes both ways.
Ok that’s even better. Apple is turning android without being android, partly because of EU and partly because of Apple’s insatiable desire to control Every one of their user.
The EU has got little to do with it. I see nothing in the DMA that would require Apple to check their customers' location any more stringently than they have been doing it on their Apple IDs forever. All that is needed to open up an Apple account "in" a different country is to provide an address. Which is not subject to verification. And all it takes to download paid content is a local payment method. Could be a gift card.
Apple have obviously never cared much about customers' location when it comes to taking their money.
It's only now, with the "threat" of customers availing themselves of alternative purchasing opportunities, that Apple has gone all out and become (shown to be) fascist control freaks about it.
The ramifications can't be underestimated. Enforcing fine-grained restrictions on mass-produced consumer hardware products. Based not on their original jurisdiction of purchase or the surrounding (e.g. cellular network) infrastructure, but on unspoofable location data. An authoritarian fascist's wet dream.
I'm not saying that Apple is the first and only company restricting their hardware in such ways. But given their global reach and the role of their products in people's everyday lives, they're definitely taking it to another level.
And once the technology is there, it just needs to be leveraged. This time it's only to prevent Americans and others from sideloading or using alternative App Stores "for their own safety". Next time it may be used for other purposes.
Exactly why I call Apple a dictatorship. Telltale sign of an authoritarian dictatorship. Control freaks as you call it, and its people living in the USA of all shows a level of support to this kind of tight control. Admittedly not all of those USA iPhone users, but some definitely demonstrated their strong preference for tighter control over Android’s “flea market” approach. I mean, if the issue is mainly on things like virus, advertisement (which is a moot point today anyway), and privacy, then maybe Apple has a lead, given what Google is. But it’s both perplexing and scary for me to see those people supporting such dictatorship behaviour on a land hailed as the land of freedom. The irony.
I use Apple devices because it is the most global phone given my Chinese background And my general distaste towards Chinese android And their phone. I know Apple wants a tight control over anything they can, or in some cases, try to control what they can’t control. I never thought that they could go that far to geofence a feature within EU. Prior to this whole EU DMA thing, my understanding was Apple Was more lenient than Google in terms of where user can download apps from their App Store, since Google Play Store checks the user physical location, and only load local Google Play Store content, such as apps, music, movie and so on. Someone would need to spoof the location somehow and Use VPN to download apps and other contents that are only available on the other country’s Google Play Store. Been appreciating that since. But now, all can change. And I am scared of it.
Oh dear. I feel that Apple device siege around the planet businesses that is ever more done digitally, not to mention around technology itself is precipitating to an end. The iPhone fundamentally is a terminal. Smart indeed, but it’s just a terminal that people use to conduct their life’s.
I don’t understand their strategy in dealing with fact that such aim will be impossible.
I don’t understand their strategy in dealing with fact that such aim will be impossible.
Last edited:
Seems like the biggest difference between the EU and China is that China didn’t try to build some “gatekeeper” excuse to make it feel more legal. Otherwise, it’s the exact same intent in ensuring Apple sees lower profits.
Last edited: