Apple Prevents Omni Group From Offering Discounted Mac App Store Upgrades

[wywern209]

I don't get why the company doesn't just have the customers buy discounted upgrade codes which they could just plug into the app store and get a copy of the app. This way, the app can be secure and confusion kept to a minimum. This is kind of like how I can get steam copies of games that I bought elsewhere.

 

[Ken Case]

I don't get why the company doesn't just have the customers buy discounted upgrade codes which they could just plug into the app store and get a copy of the app.

We would love to do that. Unfortunately, it's not possible to do in the App Store the way it is in Steam.

 

[Serelus]

This hasn't happened yet, and it won't happen now just because Apple suddenly decided to allow upgrade discounts through the app store. Just about every game or application out at the moment is connected to the internet in some shape, form, or fashion, yet you practically never hear about developers locking people out of their software to force them to buy the latest version.

Adobe doesn't do it. People are still happily using CS5 while CS6 sits on store shelves. They're not forcing you to get it, though as a current owner you have the option to get a discounted version if you so choose.

The people who make Pixelmator don't do it. They offer a setup similar to Adobe above, I believe.

Autodesk doesn't nullify any of their old programs whenever the latest version comes out. You don't have to rebuy 3DSMax or Maya ever year, but...yup...they give you a discount if you're a current user of either of those programs.

Microsoft doesn't do it. I don't think they offer discounts on anything beyond Windows upgrades, but people are still using Office 2007 despite 2013 being available.

All developers are asking of Apple is to allow them to give their current users upgrade discounts, same as they always have. People who own older versions of software can still continue to use it and redownload it all they want, but they have the option to get a discount if they want to jump over to the latest and greatest. It's as simple as that. It's no different than what's been going on for the last 20 odd years in the software sector. Just becuase there are app stores around doesn't mean the rules of engagement between developers and customers have changed drastically.

You're arguing the slipper slope, talking about a possible worst case scenario rather than the reality of things. No one will lock people out of their app every other week and force them to buy bug fixes before they can play their games or use their software again. Oh, I'm sure someone will try at some point or another, but all they'd end up doing is piss off their customer base and lose sales after they take a much deserved hit to their reputation.

You're misunderstanding. The point isn't getting blocked out, nor is it relevant that the user always has to be online. I don't even mind getting blocked out of an app, as long as the update/upgrade is free. The second I get blocked out and "want to upgrade" only to realise I have to pay again (the discount.), i'll feel screwed. Assuming that none of the developers are going to abuse this at least a little sounds a little naive. The big companies you mention, are not going to pratice this kind of business, simply because they are loyal to their customers and they'd know the impact it has on them as a company. But EA isn't one of them, neither are smaller companies and 1-man developers.

We already have that—you've even given us an example of this which is already implemented in the current App Store.

What we're missing is a mechanism for developers to offer customers a discount to an app's initial purchase based on a previous purchase, rather than requiring that they pay full price again. That's what I'd love to see added to the App Store.

The big difference is, right now if I get blocked out, and it tells me to update/upgrade. It's always free. Then there's your idea giving people who are already in possession of the app(in your case a tool.) a discount. Fair enough.
But then there's the developer who supposedly offers this "discount", but at the very same time disables the use of the earlier version of the app.
I don't mind being giving the option. But the problem that is going to arise is that there are developers out there, that are going to remove that option. You don't get to decide wether you use the old version or the new one, they simply disable the app entirely unless you pay. So right now updating/upgrading is free or you have to offer a new App at full price. EA is already forcing me to use the lastest version of their App. Imagine if they got to charge me for it.

 

[Renzatic]

You're misunderstanding. The point isn't getting blocked out, nor is it relevant that the user always has to be online. I don't even mind getting blocked out of an app, as long as the update/upgrade is free. The second I get blocked out and "want to upgrade" only to realise I have to pay again (the discount.), i'll feel screwed. Assuming that none of the developers are going to abuse this at least a little sounds a little naive. The big companies you mention, are not going to pratice this kind of business, simply because they are loyal to their customers and they'd know the impact it has on them as a company. But EA isn't one of them, neither are smaller companies and 1-man developers.

Thing is, developers have the ability to do what you're talking about now. All someone has to do is make their app require an internet connection, and they can revoke their license and require a paid upgrade to continue using the software. Offering upgrade discounts through the MAS isn't going to making anything different than it currently is now.

Now I can agree with you when it comes to little updates and bug fixes. No one should charge for those. What I'm talking about are true and proper upgrades. Things that add a ton of features that require tons of development time to implement, updates that rewrite huge amounts of the underlying code for efficiency and compatibility. Like going from Photoshop CS5 to CS6, Modo 601 to 701, or from Mountain Lion to Mavericks. These aren't little updates they're charging for. They're huge additions that took thousands of man hours to implement.

See, if I were to upgrade Modo, it'd cost me about $300. If I got Modo through the MAS, it'd cost me $1200 to get every new feature every year because Apple doesn't allow for upgrade discounts. Either that, or Luxology would have to lower the price of the app to account for people buying it from there. This is kind of a big deal, and I don't think it should be nixed entirely due to the handful of developers who may or may not abuse it.

 

[orangebluedevil]

This is obviously a random thought not based in reality and missing the point entirely. Apple does not even allow upgrade pricing at all, even within the 'MAS' (silly acronym).

Why not allow a dev to charge for upgrading from v1 to v2? What choice does a dev have if they want to use the 'MAS'? Hello?

Your response shows that you haven't thought through the implications of this at all. Apple is not rejecting upgrade pricing. They are not rejecting discounting pricing either. They are rejecting outside authentication of purchases inside their MAS.

For EXACTLY, the reason I said, IF they allowed this every app would go free and capitalize on the massive distribution that the MAS allows, and then direct customers to "unlock" or "upgrade" or "get a discount" on the developers own site. And Apple would get $0 from that. The devs would get distribution and 100% of sales. Apple would be $0 and support the entire store. There is no none zero reason that Apple should run the MAS for charity like that.

 

[springsup]

Apple commoditizes software to sell hardware. They pricedrop their OS and first party apps below market value in order to fuel hardware sales. Software developers can't do this because they draw 100% of their revenue from one market alone.

Worst part is after 3 years of budget software being the standard on iOS, people now think software that costs more than a small pizza is a ripoff, and that Freemium to $5 is a sustainable pricepoint for quality software. At the same time they have no problem putting down $1000 for a computer with >50% profit margin.

Just taking a quick look at the Mac App Store:

- OSX Mountain Lion: £13.99
- iWork apps: £13.99 each
- iLife apps: £10.49 each
- Motion: £34.99
- Aperture: £54.99
- Apple Remote Desktop: £54.99 (!)
- Logic Pro X: £139.99
- Final Cut Pro: £199.99

1. The OS and application software are separate markets. I don't believe that cheaper OS upgrades devalue 3rd party application software.

2. You're forgetting that before the AppStore, software was significantly more expensive but also much more frequently pirated. Even regular moms&pops would likely have a few pirated applications on their machines from somewhere or another. Piracy hasn't vanished with the AppStore, but it's much less commonplace.

3. I wouldn't say a single one of those Apps are underpriced. There's a lot of junk on the MAS which is crazily overpriced.

It doesn't take much looking. Adobe charge £54.99 each for Photoshop/Premier elements. Don't forget that there's also no demo or refund if you buy via the MAS. That's a big ask.

Adobe has always had a problem with pricing because Photoshop is used both by professionals and hobbyists/students, who are on opposite ends of the ability-to-pay spectrum. The resulting prices are too high for students (even Adobe's 'student packages' are way too expensive), which leads to Photoshop being probably the most widely pirated software on the planet.

The 'Elements' apps are supposed to be consumer-oriented, but the prices have that familiar Adobe-feel. At £54.99 each just a few applications adds up to hundreds. That's just too much for the average consumer and piracy will result (and if you're pirating anyway, you might as well pirate Photoshop proper, right?).


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As for Omni, my opinion of them is that they're the most Adobe-like company that isn't Adobe (and I don't mean that as a compliment).

I've used OmniGraffle on the Mac in the past; it was a fantastic tool and left a great impression on me.

I won't buy it; it's too expensive. Keynote isn't an ideal replacement, but the extra utility OmniGraffle provides simply isn't worth £70 or £140. It's a good product, but when I can get a copy of the latest Office suite (Word + Excel + PP) for £110, it's just too much money. Especially since it doesn't look like OG has changed much since I used it so many years ago.

Even if those prices were halved (£35/70), it'd still be a big ask. I think they'd increase their sales volumes and consistency, but we'll never know. It doesn't look like any of their Apps have ever had a price drop.

 

[Ken Case]

The big difference is, right now if I get blocked out, and it tells me to update/upgrade. It's always free.

Under my proposal, this wouldn't change. Part of the reason that Omni steers away from tying any of our apps to any online services is because we want our apps to keep working for as long as your hardware does. We do offer a sync service, for example, but we also make it possible for you to provide your own sync service if you don't want to use ours for some reason (or if ours becomes unavailable in a decade).

What I'm proposing with discount pricing is that when we introduce a new SKU into the App Store, we could offer discounted pricing to people who have previously purchased the old SKU.

I've used OmniGraffle on the Mac in the past; it was a fantastic tool and left a great impression on me.

I won't buy it; it's too expensive. Keynote isn't an ideal replacement, but the extra utility OmniGraffle provides simply isn't worth £70 or £140. [...]

Even if those prices were halved (£35/70), it'd still be a big ask. I think they'd increase their sales volumes and consistency, but we'll never know. It doesn't look like any of their Apps have ever had a price drop.

For our market, the prices we ask are a very good value. Compare OmniGraffle's prices with Visio's, for example: Visio costs £249 for the Standard edition, and £490 for the Pro edition—and most of our customers find that they're much more productive in OmniGraffle than they were in Visio.

We've experimented with lowering our prices a number of times (for example, two editions of OmniFocus were available for half price for three months last year), and naturally we do sell more copies at lower prices—but not enough more copies to make up for the lost revenue per copy.

 

[Liquorpuki]

Just taking a quick look at the Mac App Store:

- OSX Mountain Lion: £13.99
- iWork apps: £13.99 each
- iLife apps: £10.49 each
- Motion: £34.99
- Aperture: £54.99
- Apple Remote Desktop: £54.99 (!)
- Logic Pro X: £139.99
- Final Cut Pro: £199.99

I'll use Logic X as an example. It's sold for $200. A few years back, the Express version sold for $200 and the Studio version sold for $800. Competitors that are pure software companies have their market value set as >$500. A full Ableton suite costs $750. Pro Tools 11 costs $700. Apple pricedropped Logic, Aperture, Final Cut Pro (all their pro suites) below market value. The initial price drops coincided with the debut of the Mac App Store. It was more important to Apple that consumers bought software that tied them to the Apple ecosystem (and required them to purchase expensive Apple hardware to use), than it was to optimize the profit on any specific piece of first party software.

I hope this makes sense. If they were a standalone company that relied on software profit to survive, no way would their software be priced this low.

1. The OS and application software are separate markets. I don't believe that cheaper OS upgrades devalue 3rd party application software.

Reason I brought up OS is because looking at that market you can compare the price of OSX (a complement Apple uses to sell hardware) to Windows (an OS that MS must monetize directly from). Difference for the price gap is one is treated as a complement, the other isn't.

2. You're forgetting that before the AppStore, software was significantly more expensive but also much more frequently pirated. Even regular moms&pops would likely have a few pirated applications on their machines from somewhere or another. Piracy hasn't vanished with the AppStore, but it's much less commonplace.

Software was more expensive because the mobile market wasn't commoditized and OTA digital distribution didn't exist. If I wanted to buy an app for my Windows Mobile phone, I could go to Handango, I could download directly from the publisher website, or I could go to a brick and mortar and buy it in a box. Multiple storefronts distributed control of the software ecosystem and pricing. With Apple, it's one storefront, commoditzed ecosystem, race to the bottom pricing.

As for Omni, my opinion of them is that they're the most Adobe-like company that isn't Adobe (and I don't mean that as a compliment).

I've used OmniGraffle on the Mac in the past; it was a fantastic tool and left a great impression on me.

I won't buy it; it's too expensive. Keynote isn't an ideal replacement, but the extra utility OmniGraffle provides simply isn't worth £70 or £140. It's a good product, but when I can get a copy of the latest Office suite (Word + Excel + PP) for £110, it's just too much money. Especially since it doesn't look like OG has changed much since I used it so many years ago.

Even if those prices were halved (£35/70), it'd still be a big ask. I think they'd increase their sales volumes and consistency, but we'll never know. It doesn't look like any of their Apps have ever had a price drop.

I bought Omnigraffle for my iPad 1 for I think around $50. Back then it was the only vector based drawing app I could find and I used it to create schematics, probably one of the few productive things I was able to do on my iPad. Price was worth it to me and that app competes more with CAD programs than Keynote or Office suites

 

[AppleGuyz]

I just hope they offer a 50% off deal for a week or two like 1password and others have done.

To me this just shows that developers care about their core following who are going to purchase a new version immediately.

 

[njytouch]

Well thats a douche move