What exactly are "manual instruments" on an airplane? If you're referring to analog gauges, sure, planes aren't made with them anymore, but glass panels have only been standard for the past ~15 years in new aircraft. Most people flying GA are flying aircraft built 36-70 years ago.
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Apple Provides Deep Dive Into New Apple Watch Ultra Depth App
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So much outrage from people that likely don't even dive, or managed to get certified without paying attention or learning to comprehend what they read.
I used to dive quite a lot, but living land locked now, I don't. The last 8 times I've been on vaca and dove, I took a refresher course to get back in to it. Sure a lot of it is 'muscle memory' but it's far too easy to be the guy that falls on the boat, or holds everyone up because they aren't sure how things work. Having been on a dive excursion where someone who said he 'dove a lot' and then promptly forgot to turn his air on before jumping in, It's well worth it to be 'refreshed' on how not to be fish food. I even did three refreshers in one year because I was lucky enough to go on that many trips. I don't thing people can be over educated.
Whether the watch is aimed at beginners or not, this is the first watch to my knowledge that is being touted as soon being a 'real dive watch'. And while buying renting scuba gear involves showing your c-card, any fool can buy scuba gear off the internet. Most places that fill tanks likely don't ask for c-card proof either.
I mean, there are so many ways for stupid people to be really stupid. The problem is, if they get away with it once, they will do it again, and it can cause them to get hurt. But even long time divers have been known to do that too. Diving with drugs onboard, diving hungover/drunk/stoned. It's not just uneducated or under educated that can get hurt.
I don't care if Apple does this or not, because if Apple does a 'dive computer' it's not likely to be a hot mess like the one I had, however that said, it could give people a false sense of security and that could result in people getting hurt. Like I commented about ski helmets. After they were required, everyone was an expert skier and people got hurt, or dead.
Personally, I'm kind of excited for an actual dive computer/watch that actually works and saved their users data. Good for Apple, but they are entering a market that requires a certain degree of competence. Peoples lives depend on it. Dive computers that have had flaws have really hurt and killed divers. I wouldn't think they would take this with a callous attitude, but they have to get it right.
Rock on!!
Scubapro isn't what it used to be. I switched from Dacor to US Divers to Scubapro. It's good stuff. This reminds me I need to get our rigs in for service.
Without gas analysis and with their dumb subscription, it was NEVER going to replace my dive computer.
The built in “depth app” does not do gas analysis. The Oceanic+ app, advertised during the keynote, DOES not gas analysis, and everything else a recreational diver does, except air integration.
NO, NO, NO MacRumors - this is really misleading / dangerous.
The Depth app is NOT designed for recreational diving (i.e. with scuba equipment).
It is designed for activities in the water without breathing apparatus, as the article says: "recreational underwater activities such as snorkeling, underwater pool swims, and shallow free-diving".
The Apple Watch Ultra CAN be used for scuba diving (i.e. as a dive computer to 40m), but it needs another app (i.e. to calculate decompression stops etc).
For those that don't dive, these apps have algorithms that monitor the depth / time you are diving in order to suggest safety stops as you ascend, without which you can seriously damage your body. The Ultra has the hardware to do this; it is just relying on the a 3rd-parties to provide the software.
This is the app that will make the Ultra an actual dive computer: Oceanic Plus
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Yes and no. If you’re planning dives with the dive tables, the Depth app can potentially replace your depth gauge. In that regard, it isn’t misinformation.
Recreational diving typically, and almost exclusively, does not involve "decompression stops". Even at 40 meters if you dive a single 80cf or even 100cf tank. If you dive doubles, yes. Unless you spend more than 9 minutes at 40m, you DO NOT need to do a full deco(mpression) stop. Merely the SAFETY stop at about 5 meters for typically 3-5 minutes to purge any nitrogen that may linger in your body.
You won't be bottomed long enough to require it on a single tank unless you drop like a rock and ascend too fast.
There is literally no difference in the Apple Watch Ultra depth gauge and a dedicated scuba depth gauge, except for electronics versus analog/mechanical. If you know how to use dive tables and actually plan a dive, you can use the Apple Watch Ultra along with a mechanical or digital watch(Casio G-Shock) to dive your plan. **Not sure if you can operate the Apple Watch Ultra Timer or Stopwatch while underwater** So NO, the AWU does not need other software to be used on a dive, but in any regard I would use my dedicated dive computer(in my case a ScubaPro G2 wrist with air integrated transmitter) alongside the AWU for at least a few dives to be safe.
I love that I see Nitrox in the corner of one of the faces. I dive pretty much only EAN36
It's a shame that Oceanic didn't get their app done in time for the release of the Ultra. I think that took some of the buzz off and certainly resulted in loads of confusion, as evidenced by many of the posts in this thread.
BTW, the web site says it will do up to 40%. (I was once pretty much only an enhanced air diver, but the Thai boats charge so much for it now that I've given it up.)
BTW, the web site says it will do up to 40%. (I was once pretty much only an enhanced air diver, but the Thai boats charge so much for it now that I've given it up.)
But a diver *should* be prepared for the possibility. Physicians that I have talked to that have dealt with patients having diving issues say that how a body reacts to the physics of diving depends on your physiology and that yes, come people *should* do decompression stops because their chances of having issues due to illness or age are that potentially that high. One went so far as saying that older divers shouldn't fly within a day after diving, something I follow.
I'm 'older', and love diving (It's better than sex (sometimes)
) and want to keep doing it as long as I can, and also not end up paying for my love of scuba diving. So diving with a 'dive computer' could hold someones hand as they walk off a cliff. Dive safe...Regarding the mechanics of measuring depth, it carries the similar issues with the ways of measuring altitude. It's a port, a hole, a small hole. Sand, grit, life, can block that hole. Soap buildup, etc? In planes, it's usually either insects or stupidity that cause them to fail. I could see an Apple Watch being gummed up with sunscreen, blocking the depth sensor port either fully or partially, and depending on how deeply recessed it is, fill the void. Once gummed up, what cleans it? Iso Alcohol? Acetone? Is there a way the Watch can warn the user that the port is likely plugged. People obviously should not be sticking things in that hole too. It has been discouraged to wear your dive equipment on a daily basis, so *if* someone is depending on the Ultra as a dive computer, they could be misinformed. It's a safety device at that point. *shrug* I would think of the Ultra as being an accessory, not a primary or sole safety device. It is good to have a backup/redundancy as you mentioned. I dove with 2 (sometimes 3) depth gauges for example, one the computer and one or more a mechanical.
The thing is, I never know how close I will get to the limits and try to take it all into account. I appreciate dive crews that take safety seriously. One dive in the Caribbean, they hang tanks at two levels, and a couple people bypassed the lower rack but they tried their best to make sure everyone stopped at the upper one. It was being over cautious perhaps, but for people that could have done several dive that week, and/or were flying soon, talking safety seriously can be a buzz kill, but also warranted. You might be surprised at how many people have issues after coming back from vacation that were related to their diving/flying. And some have had to be 'tanked' to recover. (There was a physician downstate that happened to work at a hospital with a chamber and ended up being a resident for a short time after personally not recognizing the symptoms upon returning from vaca and being hit with the 'surprise' diagnosis by a colleague)
I’m not sure what you’re arguing here, or what tables you’re using, but I regularly need deco stops if I am doing two, maybe three dives a day. Otherwise I have to wait too long between dives - and I get seasick waiting too easily
.(This is using BSAC 88 tables, which I accept are conservative, but are hardly an ‘exotic’ authority).
Of course the Depth app can be used to assist in the tables; in the same way the Stopwatch app can. Or my iPad can in displaying the tables.
The point is that only the Oceanic+ app is designed for safe recreational sub-aqua diving (in the same way your ScubaPro is). The Depth app is not - which is why sub-aqua is not mentioned in the Apple help article.
But a diver *should* be prepared for the possibility. Physicians that I have talked to that have dealt with patients having diving issues say that how a body reacts to the physics of diving depends on your physiology and that yes, come people *should* do decompression stops because their chances of having issues due to illness or age are that potentially that high. One went so far as saying that older divers shouldn't fly within a day after diving, something I follow.
I'm 'older', and love diving (It's better than sex (sometimes)
Regarding the mechanics of measuring depth, it carries the similar issues with the ways of measuring altitude. It's a port, a hole, a small hole. Sand, grit, life, can block that hole. Soap buildup, etc? In planes, it's usually either insects or stupidity that cause them to fail. I could see an Apple Watch being gummed up with sunscreen, blocking the depth sensor port either fully or partially, and depending on how deeply recessed it is, fill the void. Once gummed up, what cleans it? Iso Alcohol? Acetone? Is there a way the Watch can warn the user that the port is likely plugged. People obviously should not be sticking things in that hole too. It has been discouraged to wear your dive equipment on a daily basis, so *if* someone is depending on the Ultra as a dive computer, they could be misinformed. It's a safety device at that point. *shrug* I would think of the Ultra as being an accessory, not a primary or sole safety device. It is good to have a backup/redundancy as you mentioned. I dove with 2 (sometimes 3) depth gauges for example, one the computer and one or more a mechanical.
The thing is, I never know how close I will get to the limits and try to take it all into account. I appreciate dive crews that take safety seriously. One dive in the Caribbean, they hang tanks at two levels, and a couple people bypassed the lower rack but they tried their best to make sure everyone stopped at the upper one. It was being over cautious perhaps, but for people that could have done several dive that week, and/or were flying soon, talking safety seriously can be a buzz kill, but also warranted. You might be surprised at how many people have issues after coming back from vacation that were related to their diving/flying. And some have had to be 'tanked' to recover. (There was a physician downstate that happened to work at a hospital with a chamber and ended up being a resident for a short time after personally not recognizing the symptoms upon returning from vaca and being hit with the 'surprise' diagnosis by a colleague)
Great reply.
It is standard for ALL divers to not fly within 24 hours of their last dive to give any excess nitrogen time to naturally dissipate.
By all accounts every Dover should know their limits and dive within them. It’s when we go lobstering or spearing that the multitasking and attention to things other than your water column, or depth can get by you quickly. Not to mention the fact you start to consume air at an accelerated rate loading more nitrogen into your bloodstream.
As far as the depth sensor getting gummed up or clogged, I’ve subjected all of my dive computers to far worse elements than I have any of the 5 Apple Watches I’ve owned. I’ve got to guess Apple has consulted and tested the watch out in a myriad of conditions since this is truly a potentially dangerous product like no other that they’ve produced.
Hope you keep on DIVE DIVE DIVE.
BEST.
I’m not sure what you’re arguing here, or what tables you’re using, but I regularly need deco stops if I am doing two, maybe three dives a day. Otherwise I have to wait too long between dives - and I get seasick waiting too easily
(This is using BSAC 88 tables, which I accept are conservative, but are hardly an ‘exotic’ authority).
Of course the Depth app can be used to assist in the tables; in the same way the Stopwatch app can. Or my iPad can in displaying the tables.
The point is that only the Oceanic+ app is designed for safe recreational sub-aqua diving (in the same way your ScubaPro is). The Depth app is not - which is why sub-aqua is not mentioned in the Apple help article.
Recreational Dive tables account for top time between dives and what your next set of no deco dives will be.
This is the whole point of using the PADI Rec dive tables.
Otherwise, of course you subject yourself to deco stop diving.
There are several different types of recreational dive tables - PADI are not the only show in town.
It's very typical to do decompression stops using BSAC 88 tables and you're doing several dives a day.
TLDR; it just isn't true to say:
It depends on the regime you're under.
The problem is that the dive tables are a 'one size fits all' solution for a condition that could cause anything from minor discomfort to death. I like to have a dive crew that plans ahead and has decompression equipment available because who knows the capability and condition of anyone on the dive, and yeah, the 'genius' that does a flight that afternoon.
One boat dive I was on, the dive master asked if anyone was flying that day, or early the next. One guy raised his hand, and he said 'You are not diving today, sorry'. The genius was pissed, but his wife talked him down. It's really that possible for people to have a major problem if they don't know what could happen.
But there are people that shouldn't dive the rec table either. It's a real problem, trying to tell what a dive might do to a person. The physics are unforgiving for those that test them. I've 'suffered' decompression stops on dives where I knew it wasn't a problem, but there were people that hadn't been diving for years, and were really seriously out of shape, and they were practically screaming for a problem.
Diving isn't for everyone. But having finally done a wall dive, it is really scary how someone can get entranced by the sights and not know they are very potentially in trouble. It's easy to get in trouble, very easy. One group of kids were going into the tunnels in the Florida area and just kept going, and they got way too deep, and narcosis kicked in, and they all died. I hate to try to scare people from diving because it IS awesome, but it requires a high degree of maturity to know what the risks are, and know what your limits and what your body can handle. *shrug*
I've said enough. Plan your dive, and dive your plan. And there are old divers and bold divers but no old bold divers.
Stay safe...
There are several different types of recreational dive tables - PADI are not the only show in town.
It doesn’t depend on “regime”. PADI, NAUI or SSI all consider 130 feet the maximum for recreational diving and your first completed Open Water license highly advises a limit of 60 feet. All of these dive depths and bottom times are based on US Navy Diving data.
You can dive several times a day if you want. That isn’t a typical recreational two tank boat ride. And of course if you dive several times a day you will load up on nitrogen. And this is why every diver needs to know their limits and dive within their abilities because you are starting to go into tech diving DIR mode even if you don’t go below 130 feet. If you want to do 5-7 dives a day at the RECREATIONAL max depth of 130 feet, you may as well get tri-mix certified.
We usually dive a profile of EAN36 with 3 dives starting at 70 feet, 50 feet, and around 35 feet since we dive steel 100’s and have our own boat. At no point with top side breaks do we ever enter the area requiring deco stops besides a 15ft./3minute safety stop.
Here's a YouTube video where the presenter uses a pressure chamber to demonstrate the Depth app on an Ultra.
With respect, I think this is quite a North American outlook on things.
BSAC (the recreational British Sub-Aqua club - founded before PADI, SSI and NAUI) have decompression stops literally built into the tables. It's also why they're called Decompression Tables!
This is what I mean by differing regimes, where you yourself said that PADI tables are designed specifically to avoid decompression stops.
I am sure other recreational national diving authorities out of the US and UK have further differences. For example, the French have FFESSM dive tables (although I have no idea what these prescribe).
Anyway - practices and ways of working vary hugely by club and country - I just wanted to point that out.
And it's why my original point that decompression stops can and do apply to recreational diving is valid.
Safe diving ✌️