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This is it...

This is the device I've been waiting for 2+ years for Apple to come out with. Those who think this isn't a Tivo killer don't understand Tivo's plans. This hasn't just killed the current Tivo, this has killed the gen4 Tivo that isn't even out yet. It's stolen its thunder by at least a year if not much more.

It's been obvious for awhile now that Tivo has been moving in their slow ponderous way towards a method of content delivery over internet. They have been doing it for ads for years now, and they want to do it with content so bad they can taste it. They hired a key guy from bittorrent several years ago, but haven't done anything impressive since. They want it, but with it taking them 3 years to go with cable card and dual tuner, they just aren't able to get their act together in time.

Apple has played their cards exactly right. They've done what Tivo, Netflix, Microsoft, Sony, and Blockbuster would all give their collective left nut to do. They've done what every local cable company and even every media mogul SHOULD have been laying awake worrying about, which is to have made them irrelevant in one fell swoop. Not to every single consumer by a long shot, but to a significant demographic of tech-savvy consumers who know what they want and will shift paradigms to get it.

As much as I want this right this very second, waiting for 802.11n is the right thing to do and I'm glad Apple did it. I don't have a TV, but I'll buy a 20" monitor and one of these the day it comes out. I'll buy a second one and a projector as soon as possible afterwards.

This is going to be a much bigger deal than the iPod, and that's saying a lot.
 
who thinks it will be 802.11g or will it be 802.11n?

will that mean that all new macs Q1 07 also come with 802.11n as well?

or will the streaming from a 802.11g mac to the iTV just be crap?

if that's the case what will everyone with a current mac do, dongle it?

Steve should have been more explicit about the 802.11 or at least assured us that 802.11g macs will stream to it just fine.

Does anyone know if 802.11g can handle streaming video at that resolution?
 
iTV

why the h can't they release it yet? Jobs was using it perfectly on stage, it looks great, this is confusing.
 
roland.g said:
who thinks it will be 802.11g or will it be 802.11n?

will that mean that all new macs Q1 07 also come with 802.11n as well?

or will the streaming from a 802.11g mac to the iTV just be crap?

if that's the case what will everyone with a current mac do, dongle it?

Steve should have been more explicit about the 802.11 or at least assured us that 802.11g macs will stream to it just fine.

Does anyone know if 802.11g can handle streaming video at that resolution?

I'd be willing to bet the new iMacs and Mac Pros will only need a firmware update.
 
200paul said:
There's no need for DVR functionality. Apple will replace your cable subscription. You just subscribe to the shows you want and al la carte other shows after that. Networks will probably even do the season premieres free to get you hooked or add sponsor the shows to make them free. TV on demand is obviously the next wave - even the cable companies know it and have on demand etc. I mean not to be racist but I'm happy to stop paying comcast for the 10+ stations that are in languages I don't even speak. I barely speak english - hahaha.

In conclusion - its the same data - just different timing.

Except the quality just won't be there yet with this device. As everyone runs out to buy flat screen TVs this year and next, they're going to get home and want to play iTunes movies only to be completely dismayed by the 640x480 content/quality. 4:3 resolution, yuck :confused:

I know it's 802.11 and certainly features an HDMI out, but streaming 720p HD TV takes about 480 Mbps of bandwith, according to Ars:http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060906-7681.html Even 802.11n would have trouble with an uncompressed 720p signal, so quality will most likely be compromised as streaming video is increasingly compressed.

I'm happy to ditch Comcast's 25 shopping channels, in favor of a paid siubscription model, but I'm guessing that the cable & satellite companies are going to do HD a heck of a lot better than Apple.

And in the meantime, Apple's selection of TV shows kinda blows. There are one or two that I like that are available, and 10 shows that I love that are completely missing. Until everything I might want to watch is available, there's no way I'm ditching my cable company, and this may never happen.

Television content providers and producers are beholden to advertisers, who need a medium to peddle their wares. These advertisers hate this Apple subscription model, which I'm guessing is one of the big reasons why the iTV doesn't have any DVR capabilities.

Those companies that distribute television and movies (like Apple et al.) -- that are in bed with the content providers, don't really support/sell DVRs -- with the possible exception of the cable & satellite companies themselves, who have monopoly-like power.

I'm sure TiVo would have loved to implement a movie store years ago but the content providers hate TiVo. As cynical as it sounds, the only way you're going to get all of the technological functionality that you want is if you build it yourself or tolerate advertisements.
 
"iTV" developer toolkit?

Does anyone know if Apple will be providing some kind of developer toolkit for this "iTV" device? I sure hope so, I can think of a number of neat ways to put this device to work, not the least of which is a Tivo-like module. :cool:

All in all it sounds like a neat little unit, with an fairly good price. I'll have to buy me a XServe with some XRaid's so I can put my entire DVD library into it. ;)
 
I don't want to watch movies on my computer, so this sounds like a great product. I assume I can hook a USB drive with movies or music and download iTunes products directly to that same drive without a need for a computer. If I hook iTV to ethernet, maybe that drive can even become a file server of some sort. I can justify the cost of iTV if I can use it as a music streaming device, print server and file server. Let's see how many of these features will actually be there. :)

However, the price point for movies is wrong for me. I started using Netflix instead of going to Blockbuster, because of price and wider selection. Apple's offer is more than double the price for a movie, even without the cost of iTV unless I watch them twice or more. Apple's library is bound to be smaller for a long time to come as well. I guess instant gratification is the only saving grace. Well, considering I've never bought a TV show or music video, maybe I am not in the target audience anyways.
 
Peace said:
I'd be willing to bet the new iMacs and Mac Pros will only need a firmware update.

Good to know, since I'm not waiting till Q1 to upgrade. Could you elaborate on why you think that.
 
As an IT consultant, I recommend for anyone who's thinking of using an Airport Express for audio or a Mac Mini for a living room computer (or now this new iTV that will come out next year) to just spend the money on getting a wired connection. Ultimately, wireless will not be at the quality it needs to be to handle this throughput CONSISTENTLY. I still get skips on my Airpot Express when streaming from iTunes. When I had my Mac Mini wireless and I tried using Front Row to watch movies from other computers (similar to what iTV is supposed to do) it had a real spotty connection sometimes. The consistency and reliability of a wired connection is yet to be paralleled with anything else.
 
dnedved said:
This is the device I've been waiting for 2+ years for Apple to come out with. Those who think this isn't a Tivo killer don't understand Tivo's plans. This hasn't just killed the current Tivo, this has killed the gen4 Tivo that isn't even out yet. It's stolen its thunder by at least a year if not much more.

It's been obvious for awhile now that Tivo has been moving in their slow ponderous way towards a method of content delivery over internet. They have been doing it for ads for years now, and they want to do it with content so bad they can taste it. They hired a key guy from bittorrent several years ago, but haven't done anything impressive since. They want it, but with it taking them 3 years to go with cable card and dual tuner, they just aren't able to get their act together in time.

Apple has played their cards exactly right. They've done what Tivo, Netflix, Microsoft, Sony, and Blockbuster would all give their collective left nut to do. They've done what every local cable company and even every media mogul SHOULD have been laying awake worrying about, which is to have made them irrelevant in one fell swoop. Not to every single consumer by a long shot, but to a significant demographic of tech-savvy consumers who know what they want and will shift paradigms to get it.

As much as I want this right this very second, waiting for 802.11n is the right thing to do and I'm glad Apple did it. I don't have a TV, but I'll buy a 20" monitor and one of these the day it comes out. I'll buy a second one and a projector as soon as possible afterwards.

This is going to be a much bigger deal than the iPod, and that's saying a lot.

You're crazy! Jobs just demoed a wireless replacement for a $5.00 cable that connects your computer to your TV. If you think this will change everything you're nuts!

First off Apple still has not managed to get much video content for their iTunes store.

Second, Apple has yet to supply any HD content.

Third, one of the biggest sources for high-speed broadband in the US is cable. So Apple isn't putting any cable company out of business anytime soon.

Fourth, Content providers like ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, etc. will not make the content available to Apple until after it has been released to cable or over the air. Otherwise they will loose significant money from advertisers for exclusive airing rights content.

In otherwords, don't disconnect your cable, over-the-air antenna, or satellite antenna anytime soon.
 
This will be good for anyone who owns a video camera

skellener said:
As fas as wouldn't I rather pay for only the shows I watch? Sure! But Apple's current pricing is much to prohibitive. It's cheaper for me to pay $50 a month for DirecTV with the HD option than to pay $2 a pop

So you must watch more than 25 TV shows a month? Man what "time sink". At $2 a pop I'd be out maybe $6 per month. That's reasonable. What I would like to do is export from Final Cut to iTunes so I can watch it on the large screen. Currently I would have to burn a DVD and "sneaker net" the disc to the TV, watch it then re-cut, re-burn, re-sneakernet..... This should be usful to anyone who owns a video camera.

This should also help sell a lot of large RAID systems and then you will need another large storage system so "Time Machine" can automatically make those backup copies
 
gugy said:
It seems that will stream HDTV content, so I have my Elgato recording my favorite show in HDTV than it streams it to my flat panel and I can control it from my couch without having to go back to my computer on the other room.
I can access the itunes store, see my photos listen my music, etc.
What else you guys want?

If the iTV streams HD content, then it's going to be heavily compressed HD content. Depending on the quality of the compression, it may look great on your flat panel and it may look just okay, we'll see.
 
roland.g said:
Good to know, since I'm not waiting till Q1 to upgrade. Could you elaborate on why you think that.

Because if it is 802.11n most new Macs would have been sold between now and when the device comes out.If the "new" Macs being sold post Sept. won't have a firmware update thats going to leave a LOT of potential customers out.

Simple matter of economics..
 
jk8311 said:
As an IT consultant, I recommend for anyone who's thinking of using an Airport Express for audio or a Mac Mini for a living room computer (or now this new iTV that will come out next year) to just spend the money on getting a wired connection. Ultimately, wireless will not be at the quality it needs to be to handle this throughput CONSISTENTLY. I still get skips on my Airpot Express when streaming from iTunes.

As an IT consultant you should know about caching. The bandwidth is there, a little bit of caching and the inconsistency caused by an occasional glitch in the throughput won't even be noticed. OS X doesn't do extensive read-ahead caching over network file systems. It's arguable whether a general-purpose OS even should (You and I probably both want it to but how often do you hear other users asking for it?) But with the workload that this device will be doing it's a no-brainer that doing 64-128MB of read-ahead would be a good idea. You can bet that Apple is smart enough to think of that. Hell, if they get the downloads working over the internet connection, the delivery around the LAN is much easier -- wired or wireless. 802.11g is a MUCH fatter pipe than anybody here's internet connection I'm willing to bet.

I agree with you about the current situation. It's just a simple tweak on the client though. Right now I even have occasional glitches streaming video off my NAS over GigE but it's just the lack of caching, it's certainly not a bandwidth issue with GigE!!!
 
Derekasaurus said:
I think they did it because iTV doesn't really threaten any existing Apple products, so people aren't likely to hold off buying something while they wait for it. It's still odd behavior from Apple, but I'm not complaining.

The other possible reason. When someone is considering buying a movie and asks "Can I play it on my TV?" Apple can say "yes...well, in a few months when product X is available." This was a big question for Amazon...and their answer was "yes, if you connect your computer to your TV" which is a really ugly answer (for consumers).
 
jk8311 said:
As an IT consultant, I recommend for anyone who's thinking of using an Airport Express for audio or a Mac Mini for a living room computer (or now this new iTV that will come out next year) to just spend the money on getting a wired connection. Ultimately, wireless will not be at the quality it needs to be to handle this throughput CONSISTENTLY. I still get skips on my Airpot Express when streaming from iTunes. When I had my Mac Mini wireless and I tried using Front Row to watch movies from other computers (similar to what iTV is supposed to do) it had a real spotty connection sometimes. The consistency and reliability of a wired connection is yet to be paralleled with anything else.

I agree 100%. Wireless loses to wired everytime. In addition before too long there are going to be so many 80211 type devices, and phones that soon the bandwidth will get crowded and error prone.
 
miketcool said:
This was released to make the other movie companies fold and agree to sign and give Apple their content. Why else would they allow everyone this info this early in the game? It is to make the movie industry drool and sell their stuff through iTunes.

Nail on the head, imo.

beaster said:
Agreed. If it can't do HD, I'll pass.

-Sean

There's no reason they would've put component outs on it if it won't (eventually) do HD.
 
About 18 months too late but I can't wait for it.

Apple have thought this one through well.
 
greenstork said:
If the iTV streams HD content, then it's going to be heavily compressed HD content. Depending on the quality of the compression, it may look great on your flat panel and it may look just okay, we'll see.

Let's hope so.
I had trouble with Airtunes, so I have my fingers crossed expecting ITV will do a better job with music and videos (HDTV preferably).
If Apple can make this happen, this ITV hardware will be killer IMHO.
 
pyramid6 said:
Plus I'm going to have to wait 2+ hours for it to download, plus nothing extra.

You don't have to wait, if you have a fast connection you can watch while it's downloading.

maxspivak said:
So almost a year later Apple introduces a device that will play *near* (i.e. lower than) DVD-quality when the market is finally warming up to HD quality disks.

Who says it will only do DVD quality? It has HD outputs, and some of the reports said he called up the incredibles (was it the movie or the trailer?) in HD.

Dr.Gargoyle said:
Right now we have an upgraded Airport extreme.

Which is exactly what I want. If you want TV tuner, just buy one, they're already available. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple ends up buying Elgato. If Apple announced a TV tuner, wouldn't people be complaining that it would put poor Elgato out of business?

digitalbiker said:
I'll just use a cable to hook my laptop to my TV.
Voila! I just replaced iTV for less than $5.00.

So was your laptop free...or did you find one for under five bucks?

T-Bone said:
I bought a DVI->S-Video adapter for $15 and an S-Video cable for about $20. Guess what. I can watch TV shows and movies downloaded to my hard drive on my TV. Sooooo.... $35 vs. $300. Let me see.

As above...didn't you have to buy your computer? And isn't it a pain to have to have your computer sitting next to the TV while you're watching (all the time if it's not a laptop, drag it in if it is)? I did that for a while with my mini and got tired of it.

PJWilkinson said:
no one could convince us that the 640x480 would be enough for HDTV or which wireless protocol it would use.

Did they say that the iTV only did 640x480, or is that just something you assumed?

mgworek said:
wireless is useless for watching movies. I use my mac now to get videos from NAS servers and wireless doesn't cut it. I need to be going 100 or else it gets choppy. Unless they release a new wireless access point.

You mean CURRENT wireless isn't fast enough. There's a new, faster standard on the way, which is probably part of the reason this isn't shipping yet.
 
digitalbiker said:
You're crazy! Jobs just demoed a wireless replacement for a $5.00 cable that connects your computer to your TV. If you think this will change everything you're nuts!

And the iPod is just like an overpriced walkman, nobody is going to buy it.

I can get this device + a decent sized flat panel for 600 USD. What else is out there that lets me sit on the couch with a remote in my hand and watch the video content on my NAS? Sure there's Mac mini which I was about to buy ($$$ and a full computer to maintain), Myth front-end (did I mention hassle?), a modded Xbox (not enough CPU for big h.264), and probably some ugly M$ thing, but not at this cost, and not with the hassle-free user-friendliness that Apple builds into their products. And not in a sleek little package that I can hide behind a wall-mounted LCD, wireless and silent-running to boot. I'm going to have at least 2 of these, I don't want a full-function computer to maintain in each room I want to watch video, I want an appliance.

digitalbiker said:
In otherwords, don't disconnect your cable, over-the-air antenna, or satellite antenna anytime soon.

I already did over a year ago in anticipation of this device, and don't miss it. I've got my NAS filling up right now. Sure I may "watch TV" on my 17" PB for now, but only because this device isn't out yet. I'm glad I waited and didn't get the mini.

If you don't get it, then you just don't get and I can't make you understand. I can't make it any clearer for you. The world just changed. All assuming they actually release this product that is!
 
iTV = new school

I really don't understand all the comments about why doesn't it have a DVD player, or it doesn't have Tivo capabilities, ect. I really think you all are missing the point: it is designed to eventually replace all those technologies. OK, it doesnt' do it yet, but Jobs said something very important at the end of the keynote, and that was "you can see the direction we are heading".

The whole concept here is to make DVD players, recorders, rentals, and even channel viewing irrelevant. You will purchase, subscribe, rent?, and control all media content on your computer and simply stream it to an HDTV.

Does it support HDTV resolutions? Not yet, but I'm sure it will. Remember, iTV is a direction, not the end of the road.

So, the complaints are more or less becaues we are impatient and want it all now. This is just a start. If done right, this concept of computer, iTunes Store, and iTV could replace cable and satellite TV service. Why screw around trying to record shows, edit commercials, ect. when you can just get and control your content easily and simply with your computer?

I like this whole idea. I can see cable news channels offering their content via TVcasts that you can subscribe too, and other network channels offering their media libraries for download or even rental; and the iTunes Store will basically act as the purchasing hub. Want Monday nights football game? Just subscribe to it on iTunes and it will download automatically and you can watch it whenever. Who needs Tivo? Don't need 200 channels of crap? Just download the stuff you want to watch and have your own media library. Who needs cable and commercials?
 
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