Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
To tell the truth, I have no idea what you were talking about in your earlier paragrapghs. I'll chalk it up to lost in translation.

To address your P.S.: You are wrong. John Gruber never said that. In fact, in his most recent post regarding this, he said that he would relay anything his source told him after Apple's public post of the FCC questioning. He never said that his source was inaccurate or not telling the truth. If he said what you're implying, please link to to his post and prove me wrong.

Quote:

"Also, Apple’s response, as well as AT&T’s, completely contradicts the information I reported from “a reliable little birdie”:

Well, so much for my speculation. A reliable little birdie has informed me that it was indeed AT&T that objected to Google Voice apps for the iPhone. It’s that simple

Any future information from this source will be noted accordingly."

http://daringfireball.net/2009/08/apples_fcc_response

He is saying that this Apple source completely lied to me and when this same Apple source feeds me any future rumors --- I will put a big asterisk on it and tell all you readers that I heard this future rumor from the same guy that fed me the wrong information.
 
Quote:

"Also, Apple’s response, as well as AT&T’s, completely contradicts the information I reported from “a reliable little birdie”:

Well, so much for my speculation. A reliable little birdie has informed me that it was indeed AT&T that objected to Google Voice apps for the iPhone. It’s that simple

Any future information from this source will be noted accordingly."

http://daringfireball.net/2009/08/apples_fcc_response

He is saying that this Apple source completely lied to me and when this same Apple source feeds me any future rumors --- I will put a big asterisk on it and tell all you readers that I heard this future rumor from the same guy that fed me the wrong information.

LOL, how do you get his source is lying from, "Any future information from this source will be noted accordingly."?

That is not what he is saying at all. He is saying he will post anything his source says on the matter. Sometimes when you jump to conclusions, it's the size of a pond. You're trying to leap over the Grand Canyon.
 
LOL, how do you get his source is lying from, "Any future information from this source will be noted accordingly."?

That is not what he is saying at all. He is saying he will post anything his source says on the matter. Sometimes when you jump to conclusions, it's the size of a pond. You're trying to leap over the Grand Canyon.

So what is his source going to say --- that Apple completely lied about it on their letter to the FCC.

Why don't you read that sentence carefully --- he never said that his source is going to come back with more information on this matter. He said that this source will continue to feed him information, but Gruber is going to note that this source gave him incorrect information before.
 
We don't operate in a vacuum. The rest of the world may have their bright and shiny cell phones, yet the 30 richest countries in the world (the recent OECD report) thinks that the first world citizens should on average use 65 outgoing minutes a month (or double that to 130 minutes incoming/outgoing a month) and use 50 outgoing SMS a month (or 100 SMS if you count incoming). An average American talk 800 minutes (incoming/outgoing) a month and 400 SMS (incoming/outgoing) a month --- 6x more voice minutes and 4x more SMS than the rest of the first world.

How about you go to Other countries and ask people instead of using statistics form big relatively unknown companies who survey a single type of demographic and Apply it to an entire population. I should know, I used the same tactic on my boss so he would give me a fund to upgrade the servers. For example, in New Zealand, you can get a TXT2000 plan on Vodafone and Telecom (2degrees target a different market). Depending who you ask, they will go over 2000 texts or only send about 50 and waste their money.

If you want your cell phone as a fashion accessory, then look at the rest of the world for examples. If you want your cell phone as an actual useful tool, the American system is working quite well.

Again, experience another country first hand. Most people have cheapy $100-200NZD phones. In Australia, a lot had the same. The only place I noticed the BS you're saying is in Japan

Quite a few countries still own a massive stake in their telecoms --- like the Japanese and the German government. Quite a few countries still don't allow foreign companies to own their telecom industry. And all their "proactive" regulations haven't worked against the iphone at all.

Now Vodafone and Telecom established a Duopoly, it was no cheaper to go on either network. Same with the Power companies. 2degrees is the first New Zealand CellPhone company and they cut them off at the knees with 44c minute talking and 9c texting instead of 80c a minute and 20c texting.

Apple still sells simlocked exclusive iphones worldwide.

Tutt tutt, not so fast. I happen to know countries that force Apple and others to sell unlocked phones. Such as New Zealand.

Somehow, the US having the second cheapest iphone plan in the G7 countries, the largest regular priced iphone data allowance in the world and the 3rd fastest 3G iphone speed --- wow, there must be something terribly wrong with the American system.

The Plans are set up by the companies not Apple. Australia have three companies competing with iPhone plans, they all fight each other. How is AT&T keeping up with that allowance bog down then? So a single company set up a fast network? Wow, your abstinence is mind blowing. Theres something wrong with he system all right. With your theory, we should be seeing the situation we have with IBM clones. I dont see .02c to be rock bottom. It should be 0.002c per text and $1 a gigabyte.
 
Newsflash buddy, the US courts determined that Microsoft had a Monopoly because dominant share and control of a market is exactly what a legal monopoly is. The word doesn't mean "100% market share". And anti-trust laws only apply to monopolies, so yes you do need a monopoly.

Apple is not in a control position over the smartphone market. They aren't in a control position over music distribution. There is healthy competition in all these sectors and no one is stuck using Apple branded stuff.

Newsflash buddy.
The courts DO NOT determine the DEFINITION of a monopoly.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monopoly

And who ever said Apple was in a control position over the entire smartphone market?
(Not I. In fact, I even pointed out their 13% share AND LINKED to the F'in reference.)

And btw, YANAL (obviously).
Antitrust behavior does NOT only apply to monopolies.
Just ask Martha Stewart what she holds(held) a monopoly over.
She was convicted under U.S. Code (Title 18, Section 1505) "Antitrust Civil Process Act".

So while you're misunderstanding can be understandable since most of the antitrust spotlight tends go to companies deemed monopolies that infringe on anti-trust laws, it (being a monopoly) is not a prerequisite. Not at all.

Do a little research on what practices are considered antitrust.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-trust

So Apple DEFINITELY could face their own troubles (and probably will).
Apple's exclusivity to AT&T is an anti-competitive practice.
Apple's tying their Safari browser(one example) to the iPhone is anti-competitive.
Apple's attempt to stifle innovation by misusing their alleged patent on all multi-touch technology is also anti-competitive.
 
Newsflash buddy, the US courts determined that Microsoft had a Monopoly because dominant share and control of a market is exactly what a legal monopoly is. The word doesn't mean "100% market share". And anti-trust laws only apply to monopolies, so yes you do need a monopoly.

Apple is not in a control position over the smartphone market. They aren't in a control position over music distribution. There is healthy competition in all these sectors and no one is stuck using Apple branded stuff.

Newsflash buddy.
The courts DO NOT determine the DEFINITION of a monopoly.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monopoly

And who ever said Apple was in a control position over the entire smartphone market?
(Not I. In fact, I even pointed out their 13% share AND LINKED to the F'in reference.)

And btw, YANAL (obviously).
Antitrust behavior does NOT only apply to monopolies.
Just ask Martha Stewart what she holds(held) a monopoly over.
She was convicted under U.S. Code (Title 18, Section 1505) "Antitrust Civil Process Act".

So while your misunderstanding can be understandable since most of the antitrust spotlight tends go to companies deemed monopolies that infringe on anti-trust laws, it (being a monopoly) is not a prerequisite. Not at all.

Do a little research on what practices are considered antitrust.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-trust (quick,dirty wiki link since I don't at the moment have the links to federal code)

Apple's exclusivity to AT&T could be EASILY considered an anti-competitive practice.
Apple's tying their Safari browser(one example) to the iPhone could be considered anti-competitive.
Apple's attempt to stifle innovation by misusing their alleged patent on all multi-touch technology could also be considered anti-competitive.
So Apple DEFINITELY could (and very well may) face their own antitrust troubles.
 
From your own link :

The American term antitrust arose not because the US statutes had anything to do with ordinary trust law, but because the large American corporations used trusts to conceal the nature of their business arrangements. Big trusts became synonymous with big monopolies, the perceived threat to democracy and the free market these trusts represented led to the Sherman and Clayton Acts.

Antitrust is very much about monopolies in the US. And courts don't decide what the definition of a monopoly is, it is very well defined in law, and as a legal term, it does not mean "100% market share". Microsoft were found to have a monopoly and to have abused it by tying (another term from your link) Internet Explorer to Windows.

Apple's competition is very healthy. Apple not supporting a feature on their phone doesn't hurt their competition. Apple not selling the iPhone to Verizon doesn't hurt competition.

Apple doesn't have a controlling stake in any market. Apple doesn't have dominant (another term from your link) in any market either.

Apple is not a legal monopoly or a merriam webster monopoly. As such, anti-trust laws, which are about Trusts, doesn't apply to Apple at all.

Better luck next time, buddy.
 
But that isn't a good analogy.
But I was only addressing the way people react here, when a feature is not available on the iPhone/Mac but on other phones/computers (OS). As in if you want a better camera on the iPhone, then get a real camera! But the iPhone did get a better camera, including camera features, and the next iPhone will most likely have an even better one (5MP). We just have to wait until Apple is ready for it, which is not really innovating.

And maybe people should start telling people here to wait for the next iPhone, instead of a different platform ;)

From the sound of it (and correct me if I'm wrong) Google Voice completely replaces the iPhones phone functionality.
Let me first ask if you have seen the iPhone application, but me neither so I can't really say anything about it other than that it can't be done (see the post about Apple's application sandbox here).

Since data is unlimited on any plan you're on then AT&T and Apple lose money. AT&T in the form of people switching to cheaper plans, Apple in the form of the R&D that went into the phone functionality.
Yes data is free, and it should be unlimited but it isn't; there's a 5GB cap for me and thus they should not tell me otherwise, and stop using "unlimited" immediately.

And about losing money; What is the difference of losing money over cell networks or WiFi? I mean there are more/other VOIP applications available from iTunes, be it over WiFi, but they work and make them lose money. Right?

So something tells me that it is in fact AT&T's network that would collapse, if Google's application is allowed on it because it has some pretty nifty features and thus a lot of people might in fact like to use it.

MES was always going to come to OSX since it made an appearance on the iPhone and is a communications standard that virtually everything uses.
Let me start by saying that there are far more VoIP users (world-wide) than Microsoft Exchange users, an thus it is inevitably that Google steps in and want a piece of the pie.

Google Voice was clearly never going to be on the iPhone. So like I said if you wanted GV you should have bought a GV supported device, like one of Googles?
Apple said to be looking into the application so it can still happen, presumably in a changed way. And like I said; there are other/more VoIP application that are allowed on the iPhone – even some that use 3G for sending text messages (SMS). So why not Google? Must be the UI or else... ;)

This is not an open computer, it's a locked device swimming in an ocean of T&C and contracts.
Not in every country, because the iPhone is sold in some countries without a SIM lock.

Apple only stated that jailbreaking voids your warranty, but if people want to take that risk they can. Apple/AT&T is still not blocking people with a jail broken iPhone, and I don't think they ever will. Not to mention that the warranty doesn't last forever... so people might do it sooner or later anyway.

Also, I own the iPhone from the day that I signed the contract, and thus I can do with it what I want, but I will have to keep paying until the end. And there's no mention whatsoever about data in my contract, other than a 5GB cap, and thus I would like to be made aware of any limitation, in my contract before I sign it and not afterwards.

Apple are protecting their agreement with AT&T. Is this not common sense?
It might be common sense to you, but shouldn't the contract holders be aware of any agreements, if* there is such agreement, which prevents people from installing and/or using certain applications due to cell/network limitations? I would say YES.

* There is an agreement about VoIP applications, which is mentioned in AT&T's response to the FCC:

"AT&T and Apple agreed that Apple would not take affirmative steps to enable an iPhone to use AT&T's wireless service (including 2G, 3G and Wi-Fi) to make VoIP calls without first obtaining AT&T's consent. AT&T and Apple also agreed, however, that if a third party enables an iPhone to make VoIP calls using AT&T's wireless service, Apple would have no obligation to take action against that third party."

and:

"During the course of the agreement, AT&T indicated to Apple that it does not object to Apple enabling VoIP applications for the iPhone that use Wi-Fi connectivity (including connectivity at more than 20,000 Wi-Fi hotspots operated by AT&T that may by used by iPhone customers for no additional charge) rather than AT&T's 2G or 3G wireless data services."

but also said:

"As noted above (missing in this text) AT&T regularly reviews its policies regarding features and capabilities available through the devices we offer in order to provide an attractive range of options for our customers. Consistent with this approach, we plan to take a fresh look at possibly authorizing VoIP capabilities on the iPhone for use on AT&T's 3G network."

Which makes things more clear to me; Google may now/currently only use AT&T's wireless network (including hotspots) and not AT&T's 2G and 3G data services, but I guess that this will change in the near future. Apple might not have been obligated to block the Google Voice application, for now, but I presume it did for some other reasons, notably the confusing UI.
 
It's not Apple's phone. You paid for it; it's your phone. On the other hand, they own the OS, namely the code. That doesn't give them the right to determine which software can run on their platform. They have every right to choose which applications they sell in their store, but will run into problems when they continue to insist to be the sole distributor.

Exactly, they have no right whatsoever to tell any one of us what we can do with our phones.
 
Yeah, Apple is TOTALLY planning to block firefox on the Mac because its exactly like the iPhone.

Apple sells the iPhone as a solution for a number of things, which in addition allows you to add some (but not all) capabilities. Anyone who is surprised or upset that Apple is not going to let someone else come in and encroach on the iPhones core features really hasn't been paying attention, Apple has stated this as the plan from the get go. The iPhone is not the same as the Mac, its a different device with different strengths, weakness, and philosophy behind it. While Apple will certainly change in some aspects regarding the iPhone/AppStore (allowing an SDK, allowing adult apps) etc. Certain things are unlikely if ever to change (Flash, competing browsers). GoogleVoice falls into the later catagory at this point because it usurps one of the primary roles of the iPhone itself.

Apple is pretty much telling you that you are welcome to use a competitors product if these types of things are a big deal to you because Apple doesn't feel its the strategy they want to take. If you really want a phone you can do whatever you want with it Android is your best bet, the iPhone on the other hand, is never going to be a trully free device in an official way, and thats the plan. Its somewhat like complaining about Microsoft not letting you install some sort of emulator to play other games officially. You are welcome to try or to get a system that lets you do it, but they aren't going to help you do it.

As much as I hate Apple's strategy here, I have to agree with this post.

It is Apple's strategy, and it is what it is. They want to have control over everything so the user experience doesn't falter. However, they don't understand that user experience is sometimes greater when you have user choice and user control.

Apple has done a pretty good job so far with their sandbox.
 
There is no time to waste - Apple must be punished!

Yes, it's time to punish Apple, the last big IT bully! Get everyone, who ever downloaded Google's app for iPhone a free iPhone 3GS on Apple's expense!

That will teach 'em!

(Alternatively, just get me an iPhone 3GS!)
 
Anyway, alright, I watched the demo vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ilv...N&tab=iv&start=0&feature=player_embedded#t=86

All I have to say is, wow. That's balls. It really is. It's not a replacement as such. It's an app that offers an alternative to Apple's entire set of mobile telephony features. It looks like you can, in fact, bypass the iPhone's entire telephony interface, and just use GV.

It's not a replacement, but it's a broad and very far-reaching duplication of features that seem to give a different user experience than what Apple has. This is no simple dialer app. It seems like complete Google "Trojan Horse." It's as if Google duplicated a major part of the iPhone's OS and then offered that to users to use in place of Apple's original implementation. And really, it can certainly function as a "replacement." I can see why and how Apple used that term to describe it.

I'm not surprised Apple ended up rejecting this. As a user, I don't know how to feel about it, really. But I can certainly undertstand how this is unacceptable to Apple, and AT&T as well.
 
Anyway, alright, I watched the demo vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ilv...N&tab=iv&start=0&feature=player_embedded#t=86

All I have to say is, wow. That's balls. It really is. It's not a replacement as such. It's an app that offers an alternative to Apple's entire set of mobile telephony features. It looks like you can, in fact, bypass the iPhone's entire telephony interface, and just use GV.

It's not a replacement, but it's a broad and very far-reaching duplication of features that seem to give a different user experience than what Apple has. This is no simple dialer app. It seems like complete Google "Trojan Horse." It's as if Google duplicated a major part of the iPhone's OS and then offered that to users to use in place of Apple's original implementation. And really, it can certainly function as a "replacement." I can see why and how Apple used that term to describe it.

I'm not surprised Apple ended up rejecting this. As a user, I don't know how to feel about it, really. But I can certainly undertstand how this is unacceptable to Apple, and AT&T as well.

That video shows about nothing. How did you come to that conclusion from that video ? They don't even show how to dial a call.
 
How about you go to Other countries and ask people instead of using statistics form big relatively unknown companies who survey a single type of demographic and Apply it to an entire population. I should know, I used the same tactic on my boss so he would give me a fund to upgrade the servers. For example, in New Zealand, you can get a TXT2000 plan on Vodafone and Telecom (2degrees target a different market). Depending who you ask, they will go over 2000 texts or only send about 50 and waste their money.

Again, experience another country first hand. Most people have cheapy $100-200NZD phones. In Australia, a lot had the same. The only place I noticed the BS you're saying is in Japan

Now Vodafone and Telecom established a Duopoly, it was no cheaper to go on either network. Same with the Power companies. 2degrees is the first New Zealand CellPhone company and they cut them off at the knees with 44c minute talking and 9c texting instead of 80c a minute and 20c texting.

Tutt tutt, not so fast. I happen to know countries that force Apple and others to sell unlocked phones. Such as New Zealand.

The Plans are set up by the companies not Apple. Australia have three companies competing with iPhone plans, they all fight each other. How is AT&T keeping up with that allowance bog down then? So a single company set up a fast network? Wow, your abstinence is mind blowing. Theres something wrong with he system all right. With your theory, we should be seeing the situation we have with IBM clones. I dont see .02c to be rock bottom. It should be 0.002c per text and $1 a gigabyte.

OECD is not a unknown company and there is no single "type" of demographic when we are talking about national averages. A nation of 300 million people with an average of 6x voice minutes and 4x SMS per month than the rest of the national averages of the other 30 first world countries.

I can always list some cheap MVNO pricing in the US as well --- MVNO Tracfone has a $45 US unlimited minutes voice plan in the US.

New Zealand's Commerce Commission --- which is your telecom regulator --- just listed Vodafone as starting to simlock their phones in May 2008.

http://www.comcom.govt.nz/IndustryR...ting/ContentFiles/Documents/2008 report_2.pdf

And we are seeing reports that SingTel's Australian operation drop 4% in terms of profit margins --- a temporary price war that has nothing to do with anything.
 
And btw, YANAL (obviously).
Antitrust behavior does NOT only apply to monopolies.
Just ask Martha Stewart what she holds(held) a monopoly over.
She was convicted under U.S. Code (Title 18, Section 1505) "Antitrust Civil Process Act".

And as we all know --- the title of the the legislation often doesn't have anything to do with the law itself.
 
I'm glad the FCC is sorting this out

This kind of dispute is a dispute over how the future will look. The paranoia about Apple/AT&T is getting very noticeable, and Apple should pay attention.

That said, I'm thinking that 98% of consumers don't know squat about Google Voice and why it's such a big deal. When or if the number of users (is it still in Beta?) goes up, and people begin using it, that's when they will care, or not. Right now, businessmen who do lots of travel, and have 17 different phone numbers, they're the ones who really give a damn.

As for the stuff about transferring the contacts to Google, and using another voicemail interface, I think Steve-O is very proud of that, having forced AT&T to adopt the Apple design, and he's pissed off about it being replaced.
 
Anyway, alright, I watched the demo vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ilv...N&tab=iv&start=0&feature=player_embedded#t=86

All I have to say is, wow. That's balls. It really is. It's not a replacement as such. It's an app that offers an alternative to Apple's entire set of mobile telephony features. It looks like you can, in fact, bypass the iPhone's entire telephony interface, and just use GV.

It's not a replacement, but it's a broad and very far-reaching duplication of features that seem to give a different user experience than what Apple has. This is no simple dialer app. It seems like complete Google "Trojan Horse." It's as if Google duplicated a major part of the iPhone's OS and then offered that to users to use in place of Apple's original implementation. And really, it can certainly function as a "replacement." I can see why and how Apple used that term to describe it.

I'm not surprised Apple ended up rejecting this. As a user, I don't know how to feel about it, really. But I can certainly undertstand how this is unacceptable to Apple, and AT&T as well.
FYI, GV Mobile only has those features for your GV number. It does not use those features for your AT&T number. It does not redirect your AT&T number to your GV number. Your GV number acts independently. Show me where the iPhone native app allows you to dial out easily via GV. I would still be using my iPhone service just with my outgoing GV number.

I know you don't use GV, and I get the idea you want to trash the service and other users who use it.
 
I must be looking at it from a different perspective.
to me it is nothing more than have a second calculator app on the iphone.
Two calculators one by apple and one by joe developer.
I can use the telephone feature apple provided me or google voice which I chose to install.
I can use the mail feature apple provided me or get my mail via the web based system.
How is GV any different than these other apps that have different ways of using a service? I can call using ATT or voip. ATT can have their, I mean my rollover minutes that I paid for back if they would like, I don't forsee using 3500 in the near futre.

I have my GV all set up and it is pretty darn slick.
 
FYI, GV Mobile only has those features for your GV number. It does not use those features for your AT&T number. It does not redirect your AT&T number to your GV number. Your GV number acts independently. Show me where the iPhone native app allows you to dial out easily via GV. I would still be using my iPhone service just with my outgoing GV number.

I know you don't use GV, and I get the idea you want to trash the service and other users who use it.

You can do everything from GV without even touching the standard interface. That's part of Apple's problem. And then there's the AT&T factor as well. GV is a complete duplication of Apple's entire telephony interface. It encroaches both on Apple's work as well as some of AT&T's services.

Aside from AT&T's objections, this is about Apple being concerned about Google's control of the user experience and how that affects Apple over the long term. Google's dupliation of Apple's entire telephony interface, and then repackaged to Google's standards is really a big no-no.

It's a cleverly implemented Trojan Horse, as Anonymouse commented over at AI, designed to undermine Apple's iPhone user experience by providing an alternative UI that replaces Apple's user experience with Google's. All of Google's services have this intent: to replace the native user experience on any platform with Google's. It's designed to capture as much user identifiable information as it can from each user so that Google can use that information for it's own purposes. Again, all Google's services have this intent: to capture as much information about you as they can so they can use that to serve their ends.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showpost.php?p=1469511&postcount=184


Again, I'm not sure how to feel about it. Google seems to be infringing here in some way. At least if I were Apple that's certainly how I'd view it. It's an effort to duplicate Apple's entire telephony interface and functionality - but according to Google's standards, and it's cleverly offered as an app, as a "choice." Choice is fine, but this "alternative" can function as a complete replacement, which renders a key part of the iPhone OS completely irrelevant. It isn't like duplicating Apple's Voice Memo app or whatnot. This isn't an alternate calculator app. This is a significant and far-reaching duplication, and it can be viewed as Google strong-arming its way onto the iPhone. It smacks of some kind of infringement, though I'm not sure what at this point.

What's interesting, as I've said, is that the loophole Google used here is to offer it as an app. As a choice. Simply tap on it and boom, alternate reality. Sneaky, sneaky. Apple seems to want to try to catch them them at their own game, but the word "replacement" seems to be something that can be interpreted in more than one way.

Either way, I can certainly understand why Apple (notwithstanding how this affects AT&T) has an issue with this.

And bedsides, Apple's concern over how Google will handle your information is completely undersandable. That, to some, would be enough rounds to reject the app, or as Apple stated is so politically well, study it.

Funny thing is, the more you think about it, the more you come to understand Apple's position in all this. It's a shame the wording of their response was so open to interpretation, but I think the last thing Apple would have wanted is to adopt an accusatory tone for which they'll need to answer afterward, especially in light of their delicate situation with AT&T, who most certainly does no approve of GV. That's a given.
 
OECD is not a unknown company and there is no single "type" of demographic when we are talking about national averages. A nation of 300 million people with an average of 6x voice minutes and 4x SMS per month than the rest of the national averages of the other 30 first world countries.

I can always list some cheap MVNO pricing in the US as well --- MVNO Tracfone has a $45 US unlimited minutes voice plan in the US.

New Zealand's Commerce Commission --- which is your telecom regulator --- just listed Vodafone as starting to simlock their phones in May 2008.

http://www.comcom.govt.nz/IndustryR...ting/ContentFiles/Documents/2008 report_2.pdf

And we are seeing reports that SingTel's Australian operation drop 4% in terms of profit margins --- a temporary price war that has nothing to do with anything.

I think you need to brush up on your statistical methods, Its so easy to skew the results in favour of a party.

Ive noticed that Unlimited does not really mean Unlimited in the US.

Read further and search for this phrase "After encouragement from the Commission, Vodafone stopped locking its mobile handsets."

4% is still quite a lot in an already 4-5 player market. How do you know if its temporary?
 
Apple answered that by not answering it at all
DON'T YOU TALK ABOUT APPLE LIKE THAT!
Apple did what they had to in order maintain their status as the most innovative, eco-friendly, currently #1 computer maker in the world. I support Apple 100% in their decision. In fact, I think Apple should raise the price of the iPhone by $100.00 and allow only Apple created apps in the app store!
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.