Apple Pulls Products from Environmental EPEAT Registry

[MuppetGate]

You people need to have your heads examined. Seven pages of uninformed speculation and the only people who insert any factual reference into the conversation get downvoted. Whatever. Apple declining EPEAT certification has nothing to do with how recyclable their computers are. Period. End of story. But-but-but-- no. Nothing to do with how recyclable they are. Apple will recycle, for free, 100% of the Macs they sell as well as any PC you'd like to send them. If the machine has value to Apple, they'll send you a gift card in return. That's unmatched in the industry.

I'm willing to put money down that not one of you complaining about this is an industrial designer. You have no idea how products are built. You don't need to be one, though, to see that Apple obviously knows how to remove a glued-in battery; otherwise they wouldn't offer to replace them.

Welcome to the future, where your computer is a complex-enough feat of engineering that you are expected not to try to repair it yourself. Just like your car, your television, your toaster, your refrigerator, your cell phone...

Wow. You didn't get down voted!

Instead of just relying on common-sense and a well-crafted argument, try inserting some incontrovertible facts. That ought to do it.

When I bought my first car, I could change the gearbox myself with the help of friends and the equipment in a college body shop.

When I bought second car, I eagerly opened the bonnet and knew pretty much straight away that I was not going to be doing anything more complicated than fuses and lightbulbs.

Still, after ten years, the car has not had any problems (AT ALL) and has never once failed to start up first time (driven every day except Sunday).

If the car is reliable then I have no problem not being able to change the gearbox.

 

[Porco]

In other news, Farmer Giles pulls his new herd of cattle from the poultry registry, as the rating on huge, 4-legged chickens that lay no eggs is extremely poor.

 

[Pompiliu]

Never heard of EPEAT. So why should i care?
I want better computers, i don't really care about environment.

 

[Poisednoise]

well thats the thing. say the screen breaks in some way in the RMBP. according to people in the electronics recycling industry, they "have no way of recycling aluminum that has glass glued to it like Apple did with both this machine and the recent iPad."

so it sounds like apple literally needs to replace the whole thing rather than be able to repair it.

i don't mind the RMBP being non-upgradeable as i'm sure its specs would last me for a long time. but i do mind that apple has turned into a tech company that purposely makes throw-a-away products.

good design isn't only about just making something look nice, especially for a leading company like apple.

I'm sorry if this sounds snarky: I know sometimes people read the headline in these threads, and jump straight in with a reply, without reading the arguments that have gone before. While that's irritating occasionally, one can see, particularly in a long thread such as this, why it happens. But when someone actually quotes you back without clearly having read the post they're quoting, one does sometimes wonder...

I'm prepared to believe that iFixit's friendly neighbourhood recycling company can't separate the glass from the aluminium. All the more reason for them to be dissuaded from trying by making it more difficult, with non-standard screws and glue.

Please read this paragraph carefully: Apple not only can but they are legally required to fully recycle all of their manufactured goods sold in the EU. Given that models are predominantly the same worldwide (bar a few chips different in iPhones to take account of different operating frequencies), we can therefore assume that Apple is capable of fully recycling their products worldwide. The fact that third parties can't do it is immaterial. Both I and others not only have first hand experience of this, but many have also pointed to the webpages of Apple's own site where they not only claim that they will recycle the components, but even instruct you as to how to enable this to happen.

Given the above, I cannot see what the problem is here.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

This is odd. Did they forget the whole GreenPeace haranguing they got over their use of arsenic and PVC? Apparently so.

I strongly dislike the idea that there is no way to upgrade the RAM in the new MacBooks. Bad idea, shortsighted for power users.

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Apple not only can but they are legally required to fully recycle all of their manufactured goods sold in the EU. Given that models are predominantly the same worldwide (bar a few chips different in iPhones to take account of different operating frequencies), we can therefore assume that Apple is capable of fully recycling their products worldwide. The fact that third parties can't do it is immaterial. Both I and others not only have first hand experience of this, but many have also pointed to the webpages of Apple's own site where they not only claim that they will recycle the components, but even instruct you as to how to enable this to happen.

Given the above, I cannot see what the problem is here.

And gives Apple a great opportunity to insure that their older technology IS recycled by offering 'rewards' for those that do return the devices to Apple. So far, every older iPod that I have had that fails has been taken back to the nearest Apple store, and used to purchase a new one. I hope Apple hasn't gotten rid of that program as it is a damn good idea IMO, and I'm sure that if the whole world knew about it, there would be a much higher rate of recycling of dead iPods. If they started doing this with their computers too, I'd be happy as I have an older plastic 15" iMac that is too old to be of any use. I'd love to take it back to the Apple store and save some green on a Mac Mini, or another iMac, or something...

I guess on the upgradability issue, I'd have to admit that besides using Fusion a lot, I don't have much need for upgrading the memory. If there was a model with say 8G, I'd be happy.

 

[KPOM]

Absolutely disgusting. Every company out there is out to make money. But in this day and age, it has never been more important for the big companies that sell massive number of units to be environmentally responsible. Considering Apple put themselves out there as a company that is environmentally friendly, this move is despicable. They've always been a company about form over function. Design at no cost. If it turns out that other companies can make thin laptops without losing EPEAT certification, then it will make this move all the more despicable. This company has no shame.

Maybe they just want to avoid all the paperwork and red tape associated with certification. A lot of times, government programs are counterproductive. Apple doesn't have a big presence in the enterprise, anyway, so they may believe that dotting every i and crossing every t necessary to meet the specifications isn't worth the incremental sales.

If they stop recycling or switch to less environmentally friendly manufacturing methods, then you may have a legitimate gripe. However, not adhering to ePEAT may not mean that much.

 

[JohnDoe98]

Just came across this. It's a worthwhile short watch and laugh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EGAtLGDU7M

 

[iMeanIt]

Right-on!

I think its about the ease of tearing apart the machines with recycling companies current tools and machines available to these recyclers. They don't have the ability to deal with the new types of enclosures or builds Apple is making, which is required to continue to innovate in the sector. We all know you need special tools to open a MBPro Retina or iPad/iPhone.

So lets turn this around...

Why can't EPEAT require their recyclers to upgrade their tools and machines so they can handle these new sets of computers/tablets/smartphones, etc. from Apple???

I think it's a fair question.

I personally don't think Apple needs to be 'stuck' in the past nor do I expect them to not innovate because of this. In fact I believe its up to the EPEAT to require their 'recyclers' to upgrade their tools to be able to handle the next generation of these types of machines...

Lastly, don't be surprised if Apple offers their own 'recycling' soon on their products.

Well said Ryth! Enough with these self-aggrandizing, blood-sucking, enviro-groups trying to rule the world via their ipse dixit edicts! One new tool could strip the aluminum and glass apart from thousands of defunct laptops. Where did we suddenly get to the point of having to be 100% recyclable using only hand-tools anyway?

 

[thejadedmonkey]

I think 'accuracy' is part of the problem here. Again, fusing the glass to the aluminium would mean that it can't be dismantled without easily, which is one reason why Apple didn't submit this thing to the standards body.

But does this mean that that Apple can't recycle it if the machine is returned to them?

Even if it can be, with Apple's approval, means that it's not easily recyclable. Once again, Apple's walled garden extends not only to ownership, but to end-of-life too.

 

[dampfnudel]

There's a disturbance in the force. Bad move by Apple.

 

[Poisednoise]

Even if it can be, with Apple's approval, means that it's not easily recyclable. Once again, Apple's walled garden extends not only to ownership, but to end-of-life too.

When you say "not easily", by whose definition? Do you mean the user, because they have to get it to Apple? Apple are doing the hard work for you by paying postage and sending you a box and label. Do you mean the actual recycling? I would refute that: I would suggest that one company set up to recycle a limited range of models, such as Apple's products, are likely to have more appropriate tools and be better trained in doing it efficiently, and thus easily, than a company who are attempting to recycle a slew of different models and types, such as a third-party recycler. It may be easier, counter-intuitive though this is, to recycle a product that by design has to go to someone who knows what they are doing with each component.

 

[blackhand1001]

We're talking about the Mac Pro, not the MacBook Pro Retina. I actually want a small laptop battery in my Mac Pro and/or in the iMac models to thwart the power hiccups that California Edison allows. Now THAT would be "innovation" if the technology would work for this.

Its called a UPS backup. You can buy one if you want.

 

[I Rise You Fall]

There's a disturbance in the force. Bad move by Apple.

There is much you still need to learn young padawan.

 

[faroZ06]

Its called a UPS backup. You can buy one if you want.

I have one, but it's dumb to convert from AC to DC to AC to DC, and my brother's iMac drained it in the last power outage, seriously weakening the battery. Shouldn't an "all-in-one" have the battery in it? You pretty much need a UPS.

 

[blackhand1001]

I have one, but it's dumb to convert from AC to DC to AC to DC, and my brother's iMac drained it in the last power outage, seriously weakening the battery. Shouldn't an "all-in-one" have the battery in it? You pretty much need a UPS.

I guess. I live on the east coast which relies primarily on nuclear energy so we don't really have blackout issues since environmental factors don't effect their output much compared to wind/solar/hydro energy. I can see why they avoid nuclear power though since they are on a fault line.

 

[faroZ06]

Post deleted.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

When you say "not easily", by whose definition? Do you mean the user, because they have to get it to Apple? Apple are doing the hard work for you by paying postage and sending you a box and label. Do you mean the actual recycling? I would refute that: I would suggest that one company set up to recycle a limited range of models, such as Apple's products, are likely to have more appropriate tools and be better trained in doing it efficiently, and thus easily, than a company who are attempting to recycle a slew of different models and types, such as a third-party recycler. It may be easier, counter-intuitive though this is, to recycle a product that by design has to go to someone who knows what they are doing with each component.

...the EPEAT? This isn't really that hard to understand, there are standard recycling practices throughout the world. Apple's new MBPR doesn't adhere to those standards, and rather than get a low EPEAT rating, they simply chose to remove their products from the EPEAT certification.

Destroying the environment 1mm at a time, is still destroying the environment.

 

[SVTVenom]

Exactly. So many Apple fans will demonize EPEAT over this in an attempt to brush over what a lame move by Apple this is. The stereotype that Mac users are nothing but liberals who pretend to care about social and environmental issues but deep down really don't care at all is validated by this move on Apple's part. Bypassing EPEAT just to have a new barely thinner laptop to release each year to please the crowds is not really the kind of company I like to do business with.

Wow, hate Apple much? You even managed to label us as homophobes in there. This level of stupidity isn't achieved by accident, so do you have brain damage or are you just trolling?

 

[KPOM]

...the EPEAT? This isn't really that hard to understand, there are standard recycling practices throughout the world. Apple's new MBPR doesn't adhere to those standards, and rather than get a low EPEAT rating, they simply chose to remove their products from the EPEAT certification.

If they maintain their own recycling program, then the lack of an EPEAT certification won't really affect the actual recycling rate.

Destroying the environment 1mm at a time, is still destroying the environment.

Is there any evidence that EPEAT actually helps the environment? Or is it just another feel-good measure like replacing plastic bags with paper or canvas (which aren't shown to have any benefits to the environment whatsoever).

 

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

I don't care in the slightest that Apple's products won't be quite as environmentally friendly going forward. You want to have a far bigger impact on the environment than laptop's not being disassemble-able? Stop buying a new laptop/phone every year.

As for me, I want the best product I can have (including thinness) as often as I want.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

I don't care in the slightest that Apple's products won't be quite as environmentally friendly going forward.

 

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

Image

Remember that time when you used your computer (which uses energy) for something that wasn't absolutely necessary? Think of the environment!

 

[steveh]

Even then, the soldered-on RAM is bogus. It's a trick to make people have to buy more RAM from Apple instead of just upgrading.

Try fitting socketed RAM into the same vertical space as soldered-on.

We'll wait.

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And please explain how propriety screws make Apple products more thin, light, durable, and sturdy.

They don't. They also don't make them thicker, heavier, less durable or less sturdy.

What they do is to discourage users from mucking about inside the device, and after screwing up, try to get by warranty requirements to fix the thing.

 

[imageWIS]

Interesting, I guess in the pursuit of thiness Apple is forced to use things which aren't enviromentally friendly like glue or whatever. Interesting as Apple used to use enviromental friendliness as a major selling point a few years back.

Actually, Apple under most of SJ's tenure (first and second time around) wasn't environmentally friendly, and SJ didn't really do anything to improve Apple's enviromenatalism. As an aside, Al Gore, who is on the board of Apple didn't do much to turn this around either, ironic since the environment has been his 'life's work' since the 2000 election.

Apple only started to improve their green record AFTER several lists came out (and were picked up by the mass media) which stated that they had a bad environmental record compared to other tech companies. After fixing thier products and making them greener, they then began to capitalize and advertize that they made 'green products' and the public, who seem to have no long term memory, predictably bought into the marketing campaign.

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I don't care in the slightest that Apple's products won't be quite as environmentally friendly going forward.

Well, that's really short-sighted and frankly, stupid.

You want to have a far bigger impact on the environment than laptop's not being disassemble-able? Stop buying a new laptop/phone every year.

As for me, I want the best product I can have (including thinness) as often as I want.

Your first sentence contradicts your second sentence.

 

[macintoshi]

I think its about the ease of tearing apart the machines with recycling companies current tools and machines available to these recyclers. They don't have the ability to deal with the new types of enclosures or builds Apple is making, which is required to continue to innovate in the sector. We all know you need special tools to open a MBPro Retina or iPad/iPhone.

So lets turn this around...

Why can't EPEAT require their recyclers to upgrade their tools and machines so they can handle these new sets of computers/tablets/smartphones, etc. from Apple???

I think it's a fair question.

I personally don't think Apple needs to be 'stuck' in the past nor do I expect them to not innovate because of this. In fact I believe its up to the EPEAT to require their 'recyclers' to upgrade their tools to be able to handle the next generation of these types of machines...

Lastly, don't be surprised if Apple offers their own 'recycling' soon on their products.

Innovate? Well beside the ivy bridge and the new type of rams i would say the word innovative is wrong! Apple is useing samsung 830 ssd witch arent the cheapest and the fastest. Apple is useing them because they couldn't sell enough of them. Because the people bought better faster ones and cheaper ones! So no innovation here. The gpu while understandable the cause of heat if putting in a stronger one, while its not understandable they missed to put 2GB instead of 1GB.This is not inovation. The cpu and the rams arent from apple either. While there is also a 1800 version of rams! No innovation. The design is the same, only a little slimmer but user component replacement unfriendly. And the cost for a 256gb ssd is not justificable, seriosly thats rather brainwashing and illusion, than innovation! Don't want to mention the rest of things!