Apple Pulls Public Mac OS 10.4.8 Source

[BlueRevolution]

I rue the day when Apple has to try and lock down OSX like MS is forced to attempt with Vista!

OS X doesn't even have a serial number in the boxes. Apple's lack of caring of this extends to the point where they haven't even bothered to have the ability to tell the difference between a pirated copy and a legitimate copy of the OS. I don't see tyrannical anti-piracy policy coming anytime soon, and I don't see Apple taking drastic measures to prevent OS X on beige boxes soon either.

Everyone seems to be forgetting the math of piracy. It's not

gross profit = (unit price) (units in use - units pirated)

it's

gross profit = (unit price) (units in use - units pirated + sales gained due to piracy)

This will be especially noticeable in Apple's case, where people that might never otherwise have the opportunity or inclination to try out OS X download it onto their PCs, fall in love with it and their next computer is a Mac. Not only has Apple made a software sale, they have also sold a piece of $2k hardware with a 20% profit margin. I personally know people that have done this.

I think that prettymuch alone of large software companies, Apple sees the other side of piracy. It's never a given that you're a pirate OR you buy software/music/movies/games/whatever in stores.

 

[ToXicWaSTe]

So, maybe i'm just crazy or something but i really want to try this. I've been waiting to get a Apple laptop some time now and i think this would be a great intoduction to OSX.

And now somebody is probably thinking im going to do this the illegal way.. But NO, several of my friends run OSX so no problem in getting OSX.

I just need help with the install and stuff, so hoped someone else was lose minded enough to help...

First off i have....
P4 (Northwood) 2.66Ghz, 533Mhz FSB, stepping 7 revision c1
Im not sure but think it supports: PAE, SSE, SSE2, MMX

So what build am i to use, so far as i can see it should be 10.4.6 or 10.4.5???

 

[york2600]

Whenever I hear the OSS crowd scream "Software should be FREE!" I translate that to mean "I refuse to pay someone for their work, thus I will STEAL it"!

A) It's not the OSS community that's trying to crack Apple's DRM. Lets get that straight. These people have nothing to do with that community. These guys are just pirates using the source that is out there.

B) If anyone is trying to get software without paying anyone for it, that would be corporate America. Do you really think Apple could have created OS X on their own. Let us remember the HUGE amount of code in OS X that isn't Apple's and the open standards the have leveraged. Right off the bat we have the Mach kernel project, Apache, and Samba and Webkit (KHTML). Apple's gotten tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of free programming hours from top programmers. They've packaged it together with an amazing API and a slick GUI and made it easy. That's something the OSS community still can't get close to. In return Apple has given a limited amount back. They release source in their own license (as they have a right to), which limits the ability of other projects to incorporate that code. In the end for all this free work they have to deal with a few crackers out there, but really, that's worth it when you look at what they got.

 

[-Jeff]

Logic Pro 7 has yet to be cracked, so Apple has people who know how to do copyright protection.

Emagic already had the security dongle in place when Apple bought Logic from them. Apple just made it white and put their logo on it.

a quick look at google will show you that Logic Pro 7 has definately been cracked...

It's not a full version of Logic Pro. It's Logic Express with the track count limitations removed. Many of the plug-ins are not included in the cracked version, and the plug-ins were a major reason that I bought Logic Pro.

Nothing is uncrackable, but Logic Pro is about as close as it can be.

 

[php]

a quick look at google will show you that Logic Pro 7 has definately been cracked...

They may think it's cracked, but they'll find that things like the tuning tables for Logic's software instruments are all out of tune rendering the instruments useless. I'll guess that there are many other subtle little things the developers do to purposely screw up Logic Pro when it's not run with the actual XSkey (dongle), even if someone attempts to use a virtual dongle as a substitute. I'm glad they do because it keeps the value in my investment.

 

[joeboy_45101]

Oh ****! Thanks Apple! Now, how am I supposed to get Mac OS X to run on my old Linux box?

 

[Electro Funk]

They may think it's cracked, but they'll find that things like the tuning tables for Logic's software instruments are all out of tune rendering the instruments useless. I'll guess that there are many other subtle little things the developers do to purposely screw up Logic Pro when it's not run with the actual XSkey (dongle), even if someone attempts to use a virtual dongle as a substitute. I'm glad they do because it keeps the value in my investment.

you might be right ... im not sure... but this led me to do some more research and it appears that someone has it working... i wont post a link because it concerns piracy but this is one of his quotes...

"you can get to all the pro features in this one, just unforutnately not easily :s

For stuff like a SMPTE time ruler and big SMPTE transport display, you have to open an autoload with them already in the project. Same goes for project manager - you have to open an autoload (or just a normal project) with the project manager as a screenset. The reason this is different is with the 7.1 version, you get all the pro features just not the ways to get to them (hence me going on about shells and cores all the time).

So far, ive managed to get everything working the same as Pro except some key commands, and there doesnt seem to be an aliasing feature.

It looks like theres workarounds for everything, its just finding them. Eventually ill post up a project with all the missing Pro features in so everyone can just pick and choose what they want to use for their autoload.

The Plug-ins thing is kinda annoying, but im starting to get that to work as well. Basically, to get the instruments, you just have to do a bit of renaming and copying in the Contents>Resources folder if you open up the Logic Pro package - it reads all the instruments from there. You will see an EXS24 but it will show up as an EXS24P due to Express, so you can just install a standalone EXS24 using the installers that are all over the place and it will recognise it."

again... maybe he is ********ting, but many, many people were commenting after several of his posts thanking him for helping them get a fully functional express copy with all the pro features working for them as well...

Looks like you have to jump through many many hoops to get everything working, but he seems to have done it...

for what its worth, i dont condone this...

 

[ChrisA]

I don't blame Apple. The OSS community abused what they had and turned to piracy by stealing the GUI. Kudos Apple.

You CAN'T abuse a BSD license. Have you read the BSD license? It sais basically "Do what you want with this software but don't sue the University of California" You can't seal BSD because it is free for everyone.

So you can run BSD UNIX on a generic PC or a wrist watch if you want. or you can even do whet Next did: Down load it and put it on your own hardware and sell it. Then Apple bought Next and we have OSX. Next got it for free and so can you or I. Apple can put the code on the web or take it off the web. The license only says to leave the U of C alone.

 

[Arcus]

Logic Pro 7 has yet to be cracked,

LOL. Look harder.

 

[Arcus]

And now somebody is probably thinking im going to do this the illegal way.. But NO, several of my friends run OSX so no problem in getting OSX.

Thye paid for it . You didnt. How is your friends having OSX helping you get it legally.

 

[SeaFox]

APPLE, DO NOT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE AGAIN!!!

Apple made a big mistake not licensing Mac OS 22 years ago allowing clones. Otherwise Mac OS X would be now the mainstream operating system.

Now history repeats. Apple has now the oppotunity to take over and beat Windows. But for that it is absolutely essential to allow Mac OS X to run on ANY PC out there.

Why does Apple make the same mistake?

I was going to write a replay to this. But John Gruber has done one already.

But I will say. HELLO? WHERE WERE YOU IN 1997? Apple did license the MacOS. And it almost put them out of business.

Repeat after me:

Apple is a hardware company.
Apple is a hardware company.

If they didn't sell Macintoshes and iPods they would be out of business.
If they didn't sell Macintoshes and iPods they would be out of business.

The software is what makes the hardware valuable.
The software is what makes the hardware valuable.

The software is easy to use and works well.
The software is easy to use and works well.

If the software worked on any hardware, it would not be so easy to use.
If the software worked on any hardware, it would not be so easy to use.

It would also not work so well.
It would also not work so well.

 

[slb]

The Free Software movement has nothing to do with "free-as-in-free-beer" software. Freeware is not Free Software. Free Software can cost ten thousand dollars. It's Free as in freedom.

I think the point being made is that there are many people who hide behind the banner of the Free Software movement and decide that because they can download Ubuntu for free means they should be able to download anything for free. It's the difference between free as in speech and free as in loading.

yeah, but Logic Pro requires a dongle.

Intel Macs have TPM chips, essentially "dongles."

a quick look at google will show you that Logic Pro 7 has definately been cracked...

...and...

LOL. Look harder.

Wrong. The crack you find on Google simply turns Logic Pro into the limited but unprotected Logic Express. Logic Pro 7 has never been cracked, and you can't use any of Pro's features in the cracked Express.

Cubase SX 3 for the Mac has never been cracked either. The Windows version was finally cracked long after SX 3's release, but it was a herculean effort on the part of the hackers due to Steinberg's very strong copyright protection, which will no doubt be ramped up in SX 4.

OS X doesn't even have a serial number in the boxes. Apple's lack of caring of this extends to the point where they haven't even bothered to have the ability to tell the difference between a pirated copy and a legitimate copy of the OS. I don't see tyrannical anti-piracy policy coming anytime soon, and I don't see Apple taking drastic measures to prevent OS X on beige boxes soon either.

Oh, they will. Apple doesn't require serial numbers because they can afford to be more lax when they know that you still have to buy a Mac to run OS X. Illegally cracking OS X to avoid the Mac requirement screws over Apple for no good reason.

Everyone seems to be forgetting the math of piracy. It's not

gross profit = (unit price) (units in use - units pirated)

it's

gross profit = (unit price) (units in use - units pirated + sales gained due to piracy)

I've never understood people who adopt this argument. You're essentially saying that, because a few folks think piracy is free advertising, Apple should give up all its intellectual property and copyrights. It would be like me spending money on a Lamborghini and then handing the keys to random strangers in the hopes they'd return it the next morning to encourage them to buy one of their own. Get real!

 

[SeaFox]

A) It's not the OSS community that's trying to crack Apple's DRM. Lets get that straight. These people have nothing to do with that community. These guys are just pirates using the source that is out there.

That's true. But they are the ones who are going bellyache continually about Apple not having the software available anymore. "Why can't I get the Darwin source code?" "This is unfair, they used BSD stuff and now they aren't sharing!" "Why haven't they released 10.4.9?" (when it comes out)

They aren't going to look at it from Apple's perspective. They aren't going to say. "Well, gee thanks Apple for trying to share the software with us. We're sorry you're getting screwed over by Wintel hackers who are too cheap to just buy a Mac." They're going too say. Well, we're sorry that's happening but you have to just put up with it as part of having your stuff available. They'll make Apple out to be evil when this is all a reactionary measure. Apple wants to release Darwin as open source, otherwise they could have just released the first version and then closed the source after that (they can legally do that, just because it was open source and you released it once doesn't mean you have to keep doing it). Apple would never be able to use any newer BSD components after that, they would begin maintaining their software as a fork pretty much. They only pulled it because someone keeps hacking to run it on plain beige box Wintels. And the OSS people aren't going to look at those hackers as the ones responsible for the source being pulled.

Many OSS people are the free as in speech types, but I feel most are a combination of the free as in speech and as in beer types. They wants software to be free for use and they don't think it should have a pricetag attached. These are the ones always saying Apple should have to release Aqua too just because the Darwin part of OSX is released.


Edit:

Oh ****! Thanks Apple! Now, how am I supposed to get Mac OS X to run on my old Linux box?

See? There they are now. "Oh, ****! Thanks Apple!" Who's fault is it the source was pulled again?

 

[bousozoku]

It's truly sad that Apple have to keep fighting pirates.

This week, I was reading how they've developed some lightweight encryption that has to be done on the GUI to make certain that Aqua is running on an Apple-branded machine. Obviously, there is a performance penalty, even though with the new machines, you might not notice it.

So much for Palladium being the end-all of security and that Apple would never do such a thing.

It seems pretty useless not to tie Mac OS X to a certain motherboard. Apple can tie it fairly loosely but still keep it working only with certain hardware. Of course, this opens up the market for ersatz Apple ROMs.

 

[BlueRevolution]

I've never understood people who adopt this argument. You're essentially saying that, because a few folks think piracy is free advertising, Apple should give up all its intellectual property and copyrights. It would be like me spending money on a Lamborghini and then handing the keys to random strangers in the hopes they'd return it the next morning to encourage them to buy one of their own. Get real!

Again with the physical example fallacy. We're talking about information here. It has no intrinsic value. This means that if I steal it, you still have it. It's not like a Lamborghini. What it IS like is me, a record label, spending money on making music, then letting people listen to it for free on the radio. How dumb would that be?

 

[0010101]

The problem with Apple making a 'PC' version of OSX is that they'd have to write it to work with a million different combinations of hardware.. one of the reasons XP is such a crappy OS.

Since Apple builds the hardware, they build the OS to work with that hardware. That's what makes it so stable and reliable.

Now, Apple could, in theory, start a 'OSX Compliant' program, telling third party hardware vendors like Dell or HP that if they use a specific logic board chipset, video chipset, etc that OSX would run as well on such a PC as a Mac, but all that would do is kill Apples hardware sales, because most folks would opt for the ballsed out clone instead of the neutered Apple.

That's why licencing nearly killed Apple.. because the clone companies were building a better, faster box for much less money, and cutting too deep into their hardware sales (which they're making alot more than 20% on).

Another good reason for Apple to keep OSX on their hardware is Microsoft, who would probably quit releasing OSX versions of their popular Word and Excel software if Apple were to try and go head to head with them in the OS market.

Even animals know better than to $#it where they eat.

Despite Apples superior OS, I doubt they'll ever gain much more than 20% of the market, because when it comes down to it, people in general are going to buy what is inexpensive and familure, and has the best range of software available.

Software companies are going to write software for the largest audience possible.. and that's going to continue to be the Winblows platform.

Why hasn't there been a 'universal' version of Photoshop yet? Because the hard core digital imaging people are hanging on to their G5's. The 'casual' and 'consumer' users can use their software just fine under Rosetta on their Intel Macs.

There isn't any incentive for Adobe to port their flagship product yet.. because customers don't have any real incentive to buy it yet.

 

[slb]

Emagic already had the security dongle in place when Apple bought Logic from them. Apple just made it white and put their logo on it.

Emagic's employees are now Apple employees.

Again with the physical example fallacy. We're talking about information here. It has no intrinsic value. This means that if I steal it, you still have it.

This, too, is a tired argument. Of course it has intrinsic value; it's called "intellectual property." My example was meant to illustrate how ridiculous it is to expect Apple to just trust people to run out and buy a Mac just because they pirated OS X, as though you'd let people drive a Lamborghini on the honor system.

When you pirate digital information, you're still stealing indirectly by depriving the author of payment. In other words, you're stealing revenues owed to them, especially if you do it off a P2P network where your shared files are distributed to others and spread the piracy. Just because computers provide a method of perfect duplication of a product doesn't magically mean you have the right to freeload it and not pay someone for their work.

I'm so tired of these sorts of Slashdot-esque positions on piracy and intellectual property.

It's not like a Lamborghini. What it IS like is me, a record label, spending money on making music, then letting people listen to it for free on the radio. How dumb would that be?

Music on the radio is still compensated for through advertising and other processes. Radio singles are promotion for the records and concerts. More importantly, the content owners make the choice to play them on the radio for "free," as is their right. It's quite different when you make that choice for them. That's like saying the fact Bright Eyes has a free single on iTunes means you can pirate all their music and make sure they don't get paid today.

 

[SeaFox]

Why hasn't there been a 'universal' version of Photoshop yet? Because the hard core digital imaging people are hanging on to their G5's.

No, you have it backwards. Software companies don't release products because the hardware is out there. They release because they've added new features and want user to upgrade and new consumers to come. Consumers buy the hardware because the software is available for it. A computer without software is just a really expensive paper weight. It's Adobe's lack of a native Creative Suite than keeps professionals from picking up MacPros - and Apple said just that during their last financial results call.

You think graphic designers aren't interested in getting an Intel Mac and the performance gains that come with it? They get higher performance running Photoshop on the G5's they have now than running it on the Intel Macs under Rosetta. So why spend the money to degrade your production apps?

Adobe has nothing to gain from not releasing a native Creative Suite. I mean, it's not like Apple is going to hold a press conference tomorrow and announce they are going back to IBM chips. This is the future and if Adobe doesn't ship a new Creative Suite they will be no different than the companies that never ported their apps to PPC native versions and stayed with 68k - giving up.

 

[semaja2]

Say good bye to programs like InsomniaX/Sleepless and other hacks.

I mention the two first apps because they were relying on the 10.4.8 source code to see what has broken the software from 10.4.7

 

[SeaFox]

What it IS like is me, a record label, spending money on making music, then letting people listen to it for free on the radio. How dumb would that be?

No, that's not a valid comparison, either. Because...

• Radio quality is not the same as full CD quality
• The consumer cannot dictate when they get to listen to it (unless they record it off the radio obviously).
• The record label puts out two or three songs at most, they don't play the album in it's entirety, commercial free on the radio.
• They don't fax the album cover and linear notes to you while you're listening to it.

 

[IlluminatedSage]

hey, im all for apple not releasing this software to the public.

Why? it may mean less viruses or hacks.

 

[iMikeT]

I'm glad that Apple did this.

I'm tired of the people who argue that Mac OS X should be like Windoze. That is, to be able to install Mac OS X on any system other than a Macintosh.

Good job Apple.

 

[petvas]

Logic Pro 7 has yet to be cracked, so Apple has people who know how to do copyright protection. I suspect Leopard will employ very strong TPM integration compared to Tiger.

Well, Logic Pro 7 has been cracked and can be downloaded via usenet...

 

[slb]

Well, Logic Pro 7 has been cracked and can be downloaded via usenet...

No, it has not. Take a closer look at what the "crack" does.

 

[ToXicWaSTe]

Thye paid for it . You didnt. How is your friends having OSX helping you get it legally.

Sorry should have made it clearer...
I will lend my computer to them and we will just mess with this at his home.
(Almost certain this is allowed by local law)
After were done I'll format, and i will go buy a mac if i was pleased with Osx.

Just saying i won't do anything illegal.