Apple Pulls Shadow Cloud Gaming Service From App Store for Violating Guidelines

[samwa3]

I mean yeah, Apple can set up their guidelines and that's their right, I totally get that. But how is it ok to have RDP and SSH apps on the App Store no problem, but not Shadow? In the end it's just a remote desktop app where you get a Windows machine in the cloud automatically and the streaming tech is actually good. (With some internet connections maybe it isn't, but my own experience over the last years with their service has been stellar.)

I can browse the internet and purchase all kinds of things through (*gasp*) non-Safari browsers on other machines with any RDP app (or even use Lynx with just SSH), and that apparently doesn't violate their guidelines. But when I do it through Shadow, it's suddenly no good because the stream is better quality?

Again, setting up guidelines for their own services is their own right (even though that doesn't mean people can't complain about them), but in this example with the Shadow service, they're not treated the same way as everyone else.

Say a bunch of people you want to talk to go into a restaurant that has a dress code. You can't just say, "but I want to talk to them, so you have to let me in even though I'm not dressed properly." Your choices are to abide by the rules, or don't go in there.

Even if Blade (Shadow's developers) dress like everyone else, they're not allowed to enter the restaurant. That's the main problem here. If Apple would also remove everything else like Microsoft RDP, LogMeIn, Parallels, Prompt etc. then I wouldn't complain about this removal. (Then I would start complaining about the dress code being too strict in general, but that's another story.)

 

[cmaier]

Can you tell me another platform to sell apps in iOS and iPad OS?

Can you tell me why Walmart doesn’t have to let me sell whatever I’d like? Or why Burger King can’t make McDonald’s sell Whoppers?

 

[GeoStructural]

Can you tell me why Walmart doesn’t have to let me sell whatever I’d like? Or why Burger King can’t make McDonald’s sell Whoppers?

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Can you tell me another way to sell products in Target besides going through Target's official channels and following their rules?

You both do not own Walmart nor Target. But you do own your device. Imagine owning a PC and only being able to buy software through Windows. Your narrative implies that only Operative System developers can be software vendors.

On top of that, you pay Apple to develop software, you pay to publish and you are vulnerable to some unfair and unexplained “violations”. You may die blindly for Apple, but they have to follow the law and eventually they will be obliged to. I can remember, long long ago when some HP computers could only use HP mouse, until they were busted, as it should.

 

[CarlJ]

I mean yeah, Apple can set up their guidelines and that's their right, I totally get that. But how is it ok to have RDP and SSH apps on the App Store no problem, but not Shadow?

Do we have a detailed explanation from Apple of why the app was rejected, or just conjecture?

Some of the rules can be vexing, and because they're being applied by dozens (hundreds?) of real human reviewers (there's a lot of automated testing too, but that's mostly for catching non-public APIs, etc.)... sometimes you get the new guy who doesn't understand a rule, or applies it overzealously. It's not clear to me at this point that we really know why it was rejected, so arguments that it is akin RDP/SSH apps seem premature.

It'd be nice if rejections of an app that was already on the app store by an established developer, that isn't doing some new weird behavior, triggered some sort of automatic supervisory review of the initial review, to see if some reviewer jumped the gun.

 

[samwa3]

It's not clear to me at this point that we really know why it was rejected, so arguments that it is akin RDP/SSH apps seem premature.

You're right. I wouldn't jump to conclusions here if not for everybody else doing the same, though. And I am a long time user of the app on iOS, tvOS and macOS myself. I don't see where Shadow differs from RDP apps, except for the stream quality and the automatic provisioning of a machine (that you still have to set up completely yourself manually -- it's not like it comes with Steam or any other storefront pre-installed, it's just virgin Windows 10).

Well, for now I'll be waiting for more info by Apple or Blade on this matter.

 

[jlc1978]

If Apple wants the iPad to be the future of computing for most people - it needs to open the boundaries to what is possible on the platform.

I'm not so sure. Right now, the exiostin

Can you tell me another platform to sell apps in iOS and iPad OS?

Irrelevant. The market is phones and tablets, not just Apple peoducts. The arguement that Apple is a monopoly galls apart when you analyze the market. Apple has decided the beat way to sell products is via a walled garden; and you can buy their product or someone else's.
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My problem with Apple's hardline stance (on this sort of in-App purchase topic) is that it makes the AppleTV experience weaker, not stronger. Look at the Amazon Prime video app on AppleTV. You can't BUY or RENT a movie using the app, because then Apple would get a cut of the sale. It's just a dumb blanket rule, which hurts us, the consumer. Sure I can go rent a movie using any web browser, then watch it through the App, but its a convoluted work around.

Beyond a bit of inconvenience how are you hurt? You can still buy and watch it on your ATV. Apple is not preventing you from buying what you want.

 

[simmonsj]

I've been really impressed with Shadow, using it on my iMac; I've never got round to using it on an iPad but was looking forward to doing so; I hope they resolve this soon. It's effectively Remote Desktop software so presumably Apple will also remove:

• Microsoft Remote Desktop
• Chrome Remote Desktop
• VNC Viewer
• AnyDesk
• Remote Desktop - RDP Lite
• TeamViewer
• Parallels Access
• LogMeIn
• GoToMyPC

... etc...

 

[Jeaz]

This is getting quite ridiculous. It’s virtually impossible for Shadow to block their users to buy games inside their app since it’s a full Windows installation, not like Steam.
If they go down this route they’ll have to block every other remote desktop applications, like TeamViewer, Splashtop and even Microsoft Remote Desktop.

 

[JCCL]

Well while this have negative impact, it will have a much bigger impact and exposure if they cripple MS Project Xcloud. While the current beta on Android provides access to multiple games, the iOS version only provides access to Halo and cites Apple policy restrictions as the reason. If MS is able to launch this on Android but Apple restrictions keep it limited or unavailable on iOS, it will be a much bigger hit, with some xbox fans potentially have additional incentives to switch to Android.

I for one, have absolutely no interest on Apple Arcade, or mobile gaming in general (the Freemium model killed the early interest I had), but do enjoy console gaming. Therefore I have been looking to project xCloud. Might not be enough for me to push me to Android but who knows

 

[jtara]

Is it really too much to ask that the hourly workers that are deciding the fate of all but the biggest apps list the violated guideline(s)?

Seems bizarre that the default is for the developer to have to guess what they did wrong.

They (hourly workers) don’t make that decision. And they don’t have the power to tell you what is wrong.

You know what you need to do to avoid app rejection/removal? Read the rules. Understand them. Don’t color outside the lines. Apple typically is actually rather liberal about interpretation. They are initially optimists about your intent. Cross them though and you are screwed.

Your silent audio track is not “music”, for example. Use common sense.

i have marshaled two apps that take substantial payments away from the App Store through approval - with no problems. All it takes is to read and understand the rules and assume they will be followed to the letter (though they may not be - initially). Actually never had any objection or even question. You just need to READ and not create fantasy interpretations.
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& Apple just killed Shadow because I bet it’s because you can purchase games through Steam or any desktop client.

nope. That would not be a violation.

All they have to do is READ. How hard is that?

Most likely a violation of the “interpretive language/dynamic logic” rule.

The basic concept is that the functionality of the app should not change after publication. admittedly, it’s a slippery slope. When exactly does data/rule sets morph into code?

 

[samwa3]

When exactly does data/rule sets morph into code?

It's a video stream (to be more exact they're using h264 or h265, depending on your settings). While there are many cases where the line between data and code is blurry, I don't see how the rule would apply here and it seems to me that a standard video stream that is just being decoded and displayed to the user has no potential to change anything about the application logic after release of it.

Is there anything in particular about the Shadow app that led you to your conjecture? I'm just curious, as you're probably more familiar with the App Store guidelines than I am. Maybe it's not about the video streaming aspect of the app (but then, there's really not much more to it, except a login and settings view).

 

[cmaier]

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You both do not own Walmart nor Target. But you do own your device. Imagine owning a PC and only being able to buy software through Windows. Your narrative implies that only Operative System developers can be software vendors.

On top of that, you pay Apple to develop software, you pay to publish and you are vulnerable to some unfair and unexplained “violations”. You may die blindly for Apple, but they have to follow the law and eventually they will be obliged to. I can remember, long long ago when some HP computers could only use HP mouse, until they were busted, as it should.

hp was never “busted” for that.

and you don’t own your phone in the sense you mean. You own the hardware. You do not own the software.

 

[jtara]

Is there anything in particular about the Shadow app that led you to your conjecture?

I am not familiar with Shadow. I speculated that there might be some emulator involved, but that appears not to be the case. I am to understand that the game is actually running on a remote PC or console.

The App Store has some rules about emulators and interpretive language execution. Javascript in a webview is OK. Code that has been compiled to either byte code or machine code at build time is ok - any “eval” function must be disabled. (This is important to me, I use Ruby in mobile apps! It is compiled to byte code at build time, something that’s normally not done in Ruby!)

There are some rules about changing functionality. E.g. it was advertised as an X but really (or subsequent to publication) now its a Y. The rules about interpreters is a partial preventative measure against this.

i could see the ability to run games not mentioned in the App Store listing or games that it didn’t initially play as a violation but I think that’s really a stretch.

Most likely a revenue issue. rule #1 don’t lead the horse to water. There must be no mention of payment, no suggestion of how to pay outside of the App Store - within the app itself, on marketing pages for the app, on pages linked from the app, etc. This might be as subtle as something in the apps Terms and Conditions.

 

[GeoStructural]

hp was never “busted” for that.

and you don’t own your phone in the sense you mean. You own the hardware. You do not own the software.

Well, they are required to support mice from other manufacturers, that's what I meant.

And I never said I own the software, I have legal license for my purchase, and I should be free to install software from other vendors. Fortunately it is not be up the narrow-minded, blind Apple follower, but to the law, and eventually it will happen.

Geez, rumor says they will be allowing to set default apps in iOS14, that's so un-Apple, so they can still surprise us.

 

[I7guy]

And I never said I own the software, I have legal license for my purchase, and I should be free to install software from other vendors. Fortunately it is not be up the narrow-minded, blind Apple follower, but to the law, and eventually it will happen...

Or it may not happen as you think. It’s not about the “narrow-minded blind Apple follower”, which is just a made up universe, it’s about the business model Apple has set up and if it’s legal.

 

[cmaier]

Well, they are required to support mice from other manufacturers, that's what I meant.

No, they weren’t. Never happened.

And I never said I own the software, I have legal license for my purchase, and I should be free to install software from other vendors.

No, a license is a contract, and you are free only to do whatever the license permits. This is the difference between owning something and having a license to something. Just like when you rent an apartment, the landlord can prevent you from painting the walls however you’d like.
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It's a video stream (to be more exact they're using h264 or h265, depending on your settings). While there are many cases where the line between data and code is blurry, I don't see how the rule would apply here and it seems to me that a standard video stream that is just being decoded and displayed to the user has no potential to change anything about the application logic after release of it.

Is there anything in particular about the Shadow app that led you to your conjecture? I'm just curious, as you're probably more familiar with the App Store guidelines than I am. Maybe it's not about the video streaming aspect of the app (but then, there's really not much more to it, except a login and settings view).

Does the app provide links in the stream to on-line purchase options or something?

 

[samwa3]

Does the app provide links in the stream to on-line purchase options or something?

If the user opens a web browser on the system, then goes to the Shadow website to login with their account, then they could extend their running subscription or change it there. There's no direct link or anything encouraging this inside the app, and it only works if you already have a running subscription (as otherwise you are not able to login to the app at all), but it's a possibility.

Maybe the developers could modify their own website so that machines from inside their own network cannot access the account settings website of Shadow, then, if that is actually the issue here.

 

[jtara]

If the user opens a web browser on the system, then goes to the Shadow website to login with their account, then they could extend their running subscription or change it there

And is there a link within the app that will open the login page in the system web browser?

i call this the “you can’t lead a horse...” rule.

 

[samwa3]

And is there a link within the app that will open the login page in the system web browser?

No. There is only a single button to start the stream, which will connect you to your Windows machine, and the settings panel, which has a bandwidth limit setting, h264/h265 choice, pinch to zoom enable/disable, and the like.

Still, even without any direct link, at least here I can see that this is a possibility. One I never considered using myself, because browsing the web in a Windows web browser on an iPhone screen isn't really an enticing thought to me, but anyway. Luckily, as I had already mentioned, this is also probably easy to block for the developers, as they know their own IP range and could just restrict access to their website from that range.

What I just noticed is that Apple never removed their Apple TV app, which has the same capabilities (it's just arguably even harder to browse the web with the Apple TV Remote). So tbh, I don't believe in the blocking not being arbitrary just yet.

 

[Cuzco!]

You could use Cydia...

Is it safe? I mean, how could you get Shadow once it is not available in the AppStore anymore?

 

[H3LL5P4WN]

You could use Cydia...

Is it safe? I mean, how could you get Shadow once it is not available in the AppStore anymore?

That's advocating for piracy which ends up giving Cydia a bad reputation. This is iOS, not android.

Cydia the platform is safe (aside from you not having patched those security loopholes that allowed you to jailbreak to begin with). Adding sketchy repositories and/or pirating is not.