Apple Pushes Back Against India's New Digital Market Regulations

[AppliedMicro]

Great! Now stop making all the nonsense arguments about how this and that are unfair, so they must be illegal

No, that‘s precisely the argument: When something is widely considered unfair but legal, governments should enact legislation to make it illegal. That‘s what the EU and India are doing.

„Unfair“ of course being open to interpretation.

I know you only accidentally admitted that you want to exploit Apple's property, but it's a refreshing admission!

No, I said Apple should be restriced from exploiting their own property (at unfair and anticompetitive terms, that is).

 

[ProbablyDylan]

What do you think the benefits to you would be to pay someone else for the exact same software.

Choice in who profits from it. Maybe some alternative store has agreements so that licenses can be used for the iOS and android versions. Who's to say what markets will pop up and what they'll bring to the table?

I would be fine paying whatever for a new car so long as it isn't compulsory.

I can shop around for a car. Can't shop around for an iOS software distributor.

That's a non sequitur. Who else would you pay for access to Apple's platform?!?! You derive value from Apple's investment in the platform and developer resources. Why shouldn't you pay for that?

Right. So they charge $99 annually for entry. Why should I cut them in 30% of my revenue from my app on top of that? You could say payment processing, but then why can't I handle that with someone else either?

I don't believe that. Nice strawman.

This one wasn't in response to you. Not a strawman - just a different conversation. Apologies for the mix-up.

 

[I7guy]

Well, wasn’t Apple’s issue anyway. It’s their issue in many places now courtesy of government regulation.

It’s still not apples issue. It’s the governments issue in one jurisdiction and one only..

 

[vipergts2207]

It’s still not apples issue. It’s the governments issue in one jurisdiction and one only..

Maybe it’s just me, but “not Apple’s issue” is a really weird way to phrase Apple being forced to allow side-loading in the EU (and potentially India and Japan soon) and having to make changes in concordance with anti-steering laws in the U.S. 🤷‍♂️

 

[vipergts2207]

Okay? Then we're back to the original question. What do you think the benefits to you would be to pay someone else for the exact same software.

Cheaper prices would be another reason to purchase from one source over another.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Cheaper prices would be another reason to purchase from one source over another.

„But it only benefits the evil Epics and selfish Spotifys and every developer would just pocket the difference themselves“ incoming.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

What do you think the benefits to you would be to pay someone else for the exact same software.

I understand that you may want just to have Apple as your supplier. What I don't understand is how DMA denies you that ability. Which seams to be the core of your concern.

Now incurring the risk of trying to answer what seams to be an rhetorical question ...

Competition usually leads to better deals than having a solo supplier that you are fully dependent on. Prices tend to rise has the dependency gets stronger, not the other way around. That is market behavior one-o-one. The economy of scale do not to the customer as there no reason to.

Quite the contrary. Regardless of the economies of scale companies look for ways to capitalize on the dependency.
Coming up with layers and layer of payinf feature walls for trivial technical things in order to get more money. To the point that things that were free suddenly you are paying for dearly as part of the a compound. We used to have one flagship iPhone for 600… now we have how many up to 1.5K? A glorified file distribution system that takes 15/30% slice of the price of sale of any software or digital service.

On another note your properties are more protected when the supplier acts against your interests considering your properties.

Just the other day Apple banned Epic apps. A situation that has nothing to do with you as an iPhone owner. Say you love to play Fortnite on your iPhone. It does not matter who fault was, in the end it had a negative impact on your property. Just the other day Apple announced no PWA support in the EU after the DMA requirements, again this situation is will hurt your properties.

In a deal the more dependent you are on the other party the worst you get. Who tells you otherwise is simply lying. You simply get less for the money.

But I suspect you know all this.

Its seams that the DMA is about Apple. It is not. It's about the interface of very large companies properties that the world is becoming ever more dependent on with the rest of the economy.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

every developer would just pocket the difference themselves“ incoming.

And then they'll say it like it's such a bad thing. Why shouldn't developers get a larger share of their earnings? I thought we should be supporting smaller businesses?

 

[I7guy]

Maybe it’s just me, but “not Apple’s issue” is a really weird way to phrase Apple being forced to allow side-loading in the EU (and potentially India and Japan soon) and having to make changes in concordance with anti-steering laws in the U.S. 🤷‍♂️

Apple wasn’t taken to court in the EU. The EU cleverly crafted legislation to force apple to make changes.

Epic lost their lawsuit in an epic way. The anti-steering if it’s ever enforced, is the one battle apple lost.

There is a long road to travel with the anti-trust suit in the US and other locales intent to pass legislation.

 

[vipergts2207]

Apple wasn’t taken to court in the EU. The EU cleverly crafted legislation to force apple to make changes.

Epic lost their lawsuit in an epic way. The anti-steering if it’s ever enforced, is the one battle apple lost.

There is a long road to travel with the anti-trust suit in the US and other locales intent to pass legislation.

Those are descriptions of how this stuff is precisely Apple’s problem lmao.

 

[I7guy]

Those are descriptions of how this stuff is precisely Apple’s problem lmao.

Apple runs a legitimate business model, even if the EU didnt like it. Which is why it’s an EU issue, but no doubt apple is collateral damage.

 

[vipergts2207]

Apple runs a legitimate business model, even if the EU didnt like it. Which is why it’s an EU issue, but no doubt apple is collateral damage.

Again, a description of how it’s Apple’s problem.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Apple wasn’t taken to court in the EU. The EU cleverly crafted legislation to force apple to make changes.

Irrespective of that, they fined them for €1.8 billion for violation of competition law that existed before the DMA.

Apple runs a legitimate business model

Companies don’t get fined record sums for legitimate business models (though admittedly, that case hasn’t been ultimately decided).

 

[I7guy]

Irrespective of that, they fined them for €1.8 billion for violation of competition law that existed before the DMA.

Again a fine is a fine. Did Apple Pay? A billion here and a billion there—after a while it starts to be real money.

Companies don’t get fined record sums for legitimate business models (though admittedly, that case hasn’t been ultimately decided).

That’s correct. Usually some claimed infraction.

 

[I7guy]

Again, a description of how it’s Apple’s problem.

Seems like it’s the EUs issue.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Apple runs a legitimate business model, even if the EU didnt like it. Which is why it’s an EU issue, but no doubt apple is collateral damage.

I mean, it violated EU law, so Apple had to change their business model a bit. It was Apple's problem and they adjusted.

Again, still not sure why you believe Apple should be allowed to operate however they please with impunity. Regulation is a factor in every industry.

 

[vipergts2207]

Seems like it’s the EUs issue.

Was the EU's issue. They handled the issue by enacting the DMA and made the situation Apple's issue, who has had to change how they operate.

 

[I7guy]

I mean, it violated EU law, so Apple had to change their business model a bit. It was Apple's problem and they adjusted.

Again, still not sure why you believe Apple should be allowed to operate however they please with impunity. Regulation is a factor in every industry.

They violated eu law as of march 2023. They didn’t violate eu law as of feb 2023.

 

[I7guy]

Was the EU's issue. They handled the issue by enacting the DMA and made the situation Apple's issue, who has had to change how they operate.

Yes. The eu had an issue and they put in place some legislation (albeit, crappy). Apple follows the laws of the locale they do business in.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

They violated eu law as of march 2023. They didn’t violate eu law as of feb 2023.

And? your point?

We should not be surprised to learn that laws change.

 

[AppliedMicro]

They violated eu law as of march 2023. They didn’t violate eu law as of feb 2023.

Wrong.

The EU fined them for violations of EU law prior to February 2023 and/or the DMA coming into force.

 

[vipergts2207]

Yes. The eu had an issue and they put in place some legislation (albeit, crappy). Apple follows the laws of the locale they do business in.

Bold (and false) claim.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/04/apple-hit-with-more-than-1point95-billion-eu-antitrust-fine-over-music-streaming.html

United States v. Apple (2012) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A comprehensive breakdown of the Epic v. Apple ruling

Apple’s not a monopolist, but it still stifled competition.

www.theverge.com

 

[I7guy]

Bold (and false) claim.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/04/apple-hit-with-more-than-1point95-billion-eu-antitrust-fine-over-music-streaming.html

United States v. Apple (2012) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A comprehensive breakdown of the Epic v. Apple ruling

Apple’s not a monopolist, but it still stifled competition.

www.theverge.com

Guilty until proven innocent I suppose. Nice necro from 2012 but it doesn’t mitigate my comment that apple follows the laws in the locales it does business with.

 

[I7guy]

Wrong.

The EU fined them for violations of EU law prior to February 2023 and/or the DMA coming into force.

Did they pay. Or are they appealing? In the US you can be charged with something and then the court finds you innocent. Does it work that way elsewhere?

 

[I7guy]

And? your point?

We should not be surprised to learn that laws change.

That wasn’t the point that was being made.