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Apple Questioned Again About a Mac Netbook

apolloa said:
Wow! I love the editing of the article there Mac Rumours.

What he actually said was:

When I'm looking at what's sold in the Netbook market, I see cramped keyboards, junky hardware, very small screens, bad software. Not a consumer experience that we would put the Mac brand on. As it exists today, we're not interested in it nor would it be something customers would be interested in the long term. We are looking at the space. For those who want a small computer that does browsing/email, they might want an iPhone or iPod Touch. If we find a way to deliver an innovative product that really makes a contribution, we'll do that.

As taken from the engadget report here:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/22/apple-reports-best-ever-march-quarter-with-a-1-21b-profit-call/

So yes, the dumb ass idiot said netbooks were cramped with small keyboards and screens then he tells you to buy an iPod Touch or iPhone instead?!?!?!?!?!?! :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Hypocrisy at it's best IMO. I think he's talking out of his ass anyway and they WILL launch a netbook of some sort. just my opinion though of course ;)
Click to expand...

He said for someone look to browse the net he can recommened they use the ipod touch or iphone, which is mostly what dudes are using netbooks for.
 
apolloa said:
Wow! I love the editing of the article there Mac Rumours.

What he actually said was:

When I'm looking at what's sold in the Netbook market, I see cramped keyboards, junky hardware, very small screens, bad software. Not a consumer experience that we would put the Mac brand on. As it exists today, we're not interested in it nor would it be something customers would be interested in the long term. We are looking at the space. For those who want a small computer that does browsing/email, they might want an iPhone or iPod Touch. If we find a way to deliver an innovative product that really makes a contribution, we'll do that.

As taken from the engadget report here:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/22/apple-reports-best-ever-march-quarter-with-a-1-21b-profit-call/

So yes, the dumb ass idiot said netbooks were cramped with small keyboards and screens then he tells you to buy an iPod Touch or iPhone instead?!?!?!?!?!?! :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Hypocrisy at it's best IMO. I think he's talking out of his ass anyway and they WILL launch a netbook of some sort. just my opinion though of course ;)
Click to expand...
Sounds very similar to what Jobs said about the possibility of video on an iPod not long before he introduced exactly that.
 
Don't think "netbook", think "big iPod touch"

The iPhone and iPod touch are already computers in a way... with an updated OS coming out in June, my guess is that Apple will be releasing a giant iPhone or iPod touch. Not really a "netbook", no keyboard, but a great little media player, web surfer, email device, gaming device, etc. And it guarantees Apple a lingering revenue stream from the iTunes store with apps, videos, etc. It makes perfect sense to me. The existing laptops are small enough, and everyone here agrees that it doesn't make sense for Apple to launch a low-priced mini laptop. But it DOES make sense that they'd launch a high-priced, maxed out iPod.
 
APPLENEWBIE said:
My prediction (for what it's worth... and that ain't much):

9" to 10" touch screen.
Built-in stand.
Unibody construction - looks like a big iPod Touch.
Runs OS X lite (cross between full OS X and the iPhone version of OS X.)
No keyboard - uses touch screen
Wireless. No cell phone radio.
Bluetooth
2 usb ports.
No memory card reader (don't we all have a drawer full of those things?)
Able to use usb or bluetooth keyboard/mouse
Network capabilities.
Can run "Back to my Mac."
Printing capabilities
Able to run iWork and iLife apps.
Able to run many iPhone apps (how to deal with higher screen resolution? beats me.)
Has infrared and can be used (separate app) as a multifunction remote for entertainment systems.
64 GB solid state drive
"Adequate" ram
Non-removable battery.
Included USB dock.
Built-in stereo speakers.
Built-in webcam/mike.
Audio (headphone) out.
No optical drive (Optional MB air drive compatible.)

$800

Please Santa?
Click to expand...

This would actually be a pretty neat device.
 
iMacmatician said:
:D

I don't think these tasks would be too much for an iPhone OS device. I was even thinking of an iPhone OS version of iLife on the netbook/mini-tablet.
Click to expand...

which by the term means you are not talking about a netbook, you are talking about a notebook that perhaps has a built in 3g antenna rather than a card plug in.
 
My bet is Apple will offer the Netbook in combo with Wireless Broadband from whomever their iPhone partners are for that country.

that way they can offer a "cheap" netbook, but... it will COST alot over the long haul.

so they will appear to offer a great $299 laptop. but ownership costs in addition to initial costs will be about... $1500+
 
djpic said:
Why? Netbooks are cool but are crap. An iPhone costs $599 without AT&T fliping a portion of the bill. That means a netbook with touchscreen features would cost over $1,000 in order for them to make the same profit margin.
Click to expand...
And the iPod touch is $399…
 
APPLENEWBIE said:
Good thinking. By that logic, because people want to buy them:

Krell has to start selling $100 surround sound systems.

BMW has to start selling stripped Tata copies.

Harley Davidson has to start selling 50cc scooters.

Grado has to start selling knock-offs of $8 gummy ear buds.

Ruths Chris has to start selling $1.00 hamburgers (you want fries with that?)

Man! They are ALL GONNA GET RICH on that strategy!

Also, what part of the netbook market is "delicious?" The low profit margin (if any profit at all) part?

Also, also... It's not the size of the netbook that is Apple's problem. It is the price/profit/quality problem. Whatever they build has to make sense for the product line. Apple cannot/will not replace high margin units with low margin units. That is just not Apple's market strategy. Apple cannot build a netbook "copy" at high margins; it would not sell. Apple must design/build a device that will warrant the high margins it requires. And that will require an innovative product, not like all the other netbooks.
Click to expand...

It's not the price/profit/quality problem, its only profit problem.
And yes, its delicious part of the market, not like the 60 bugs ipods or keyboards and silly mouses :D For every sold machine thats run MacOS, Apple gets one more iTunes user, one more user that buy software from Apple, one more person that satisfied by his laptop buy a iPhone, which mean one more app store consumer, and more. If you believe Tim, you are the biggest fish in this forum. Just the apple logo on any product gives min. 20% guaranteed payoff, because people are addicted to Apple, to their quality to manufacture all those yellow parts in the best way with the fastest software out there. Apples wants to hit the market with something good, I understand that, but since iPhone nothing special was offered. Well, Apple pretend to have the best multi-touch technology, the best parts, the best design but you have to admit, there is a big hole in this compony. I dont want crappy products, but I want a apple netbook or tablet, or whatever it can be, thats all.
And for the one who said that Apple is for pros, you are WRONG, Apple is culture, not just expensive computers and devices. They have to do their best to offer something between the iPhone and the Macbook if they want more costumers, which, as I explained, dont buy just one time a mac, they become macintosh fens, and thats the biggest profit for every compony.
And the price never was a problem for Apple, the cost of the unibody 13" mac is around 600$, have a look on how much they offer it to you.
 
nikaru said:
It's not the price/profit/quality problem, its only profit problem.
Click to expand...


ONLY the profit problem? Without profits, and Apple has demonstrated to the rest of the industry how to earn excellent profits (and it's not by fishing for bottom feeders), there is no Apple, or any other company.

Are you suggesting that Apple should follow the lead of HP (#1 maker of computers) which saw a 19% reduction in computer sales last quarter and which only shows profits in it's printer and services divisions? Or Dell (the #2 maker of computers) which sells a lot of netbooks and has seen it's notebook revenue reduced by 17%, it's desktop revenue reduced by 27% and it's profits reduced by 48% at last report?
 
gnasher729 said:
Where do you get this nonsense of a 400 percent markup from?

(Rhetorical question. I know where you get it from, but I want to give you a chance to read your source again, think about it, visit a thread where it has been discussed to end, think about it again, and realize _why_ it is nonsense. )
Click to expand...

Probably not where you thought.

Example iTouch, 28% of what it costs, the other 78$ is profit as it almost 60% on some laptops. Thats a large markup, especially when similar spec machines are much less. Apple only makes the case. The motherboard, ram, hard drive, cpu, graphic chipset, north/south bridge, display, wireless, blue tooth, all made by someone else, sort of makes the whole cheap thing moot unless your talking about just the case, as that is all they make, and the mouse, LOL.

The mac pro on the other hand can be 400% mark up, so where do you think I am getting this? This sources are much older than anything you might be thinking of NEW.
;)

The MB Air is grossly marked up too as is the macbook. It's intergrated graphics for craps sakes, and do you know how much apple charges for a mother, I mean, replacement LOGIC board? $900. Do you really think it costs $900? If so I have a bridge to sell you.

The real cost of the entire system is covered in fact by apple care, the $359 for a MBPro cover the cost of the entire machine - surprised dufus people never get this. $900 for a logic board, yeah, okay, this is how much it costs. Only a fool pays that. I get my products at least from Apple friends so 25% instant off, sometimes an extra 10%. Makes it at least a bit more reasonable.
 
Chupa Chupa said:
Clearly you've never used a $500 PC laptop before. It's nowhere near as refined as even the old plastic MBs and certainly not the unibody, and they are usually a lot heavier too.
Click to expand...

Actually, no, wrong again. A netbook is priced more in line with a proper markup. A $500 dollar laptop cost is about $200. A $500 laptop to manufacture will cost you $1000, in any manufacture.
 
Bevz said:
499% seems a tad high... Can you quote your source?
Click to expand...

I meant %400 - sorry. It was a story about a Mac Pro tower.

Since Apple makes just the case for the most part and throw on a EFI device, the Mac Pro costs about $500 to manufacture.

Dual Quad Core RETAIL are $350 x 2, so wholesale, cost is $250 for both.
For sake of argument, lets say $400 for CPUs/
Motherboard $29 (again, not retail, but wholesale cost)
Ram, $50
PSU $25 (custom for apple)

Do you see yet where I'm going with this?

If you build a Mac Pro at RETAIL cost it will be about 1/3 the cost, instead of $2500, it will cost $800.00 and that is something you can build today, at cost. If you manufacture and build in the millions, the cost is half that at best, $400. 400% is $2000.00 so you see, Apple charges a lot more for a MAC PRO than it's worth. You are paying for the name, software (OS) and case and a 400%+ markup.

The simplest way to figure out is build at retail and see that cost is 1/3 (HACK AND TOSH), then divide in half for wholesale manufacturing.
.

One only has to look at the $900 dollar LOGIC BOARD replacement cost to realize how skewed Apple is and when you look at the APPLE CARE COST, it's easy to see that this is the actual cost it cost's apple to replace the whole kit, or any part. $359 for a macbook pro.
 
hiimamac said:
Probably not where you thought.

Example iTouch, 28% of what it costs, the other 78$ is profit as it almost 60% on some laptops. Thats a large markup, especially when similar spec machines are much less. Apple only makes the case. The motherboard, ram, hard drive, cpu, graphic chipset, north/south bridge, display, wireless, blue tooth, all made by someone else, sort of makes the whole cheap thing moot unless your talking about just the case, as that is all they make, and the mouse, LOL.

The mac pro on the other hand can be 400% mark up, so where do you think I am getting this? This sources are much older than anything you might be thinking of NEW.
;)

The MB Air is grossly marked up too as is the macbook. It's intergrated graphics for craps sakes, and do you know how much apple charges for a mother, I mean, replacement LOGIC board? $900. Do you really think it costs $900? If so I have a bridge to sell you.

The real cost of the entire system is covered in fact by apple care, the $359 for a MBPro cover the cost of the entire machine - surprised dufus people never get this. $900 for a logic board, yeah, okay, this is how much it costs. Only a fool pays that. I get my products at least from Apple friends so 25% instant off, sometimes an extra 10%. Makes it at least a bit more reasonable.
Click to expand...

Why rely on your say-so, when we have clearly stated by Apple that their profit margins fall in the 35-40% range? That's higher than a lot of bargain-bin PC manufacturers, and right in line with a lot of top-end manufacturers, though Apple outsells those most of the time by a good bit.

jW
 
APPLENEWBIE said:
Proper markup?

A "proper" markup is whatever you can sustainably sell a unit for, minus the unit cost.
Click to expand...

What I meant was that a few years ago, PC's could demand a higher luxury markup, by proper, I mean that PC's are now a commodity and the proper is a smaller margin of markup, gone are the days or the laptop luxury prices.
 
Mal said:
Why rely on your say-so, when we have clearly stated by Apple that their profit margins fall in the 35-40% range? That's higher than a lot of bargain-bin PC manufacturers, and right in line with a lot of top-end manufacturers, though Apple outsells those most of the time by a good bit.

jW
Click to expand...

Well I like Apple products regardless, the whole mess with the netbook is a nightmare for Apple. You have some saying CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP when in fact, it doesn't cost that much for a MACBOOK or MACBOOK AIR to manufacture, regardless, Apple has their markups and the AIR has screwed it all up for a netbook.

Anything they release in the $500 dollar range would have cost them $200 to manufacture but since the air and MB are priced where they are, Apple is stuck in a corner with no place to turn.
 
hiimamac said:
What I meant was that a few years ago, PC's could demand a higher luxury markup, by proper, I mean that PC's are now a commodity and the proper is a smaller margin of markup, gone are the days or the laptop luxury prices.
Click to expand...

You are correct that PC's are a commodity. That is why they carry such small margins.

Macs, on the other hand, for whatever reason, can be sold as a premium product, even in a recession, at high margins. There is no reason to hope Apple will reduce it's margins to be "competitive." They don't need to.
 
"My prediction (for what it's worth... and that ain't much):

9" to 10" touch screen.
Built-in stand.
Unibody construction - looks like a big iPod Touch.
Runs OS X lite (cross between full OS X and the iPhone version of OS X.)
No keyboard - uses touch screen"

No Keyboard would kill me here.

It don't have to be cheap, as in $200.00, $600-$700 would be fine.

MBA is too expensive. Period.

By the way I know the pain of a company coming out with a new product that kills the resell value of a product that you own.

Nikon D90 vs. Nikon 5000

Times are changing.
 
hiimamac said:
I meant %400 - sorry. It was a story about a Mac Pro tower.

Since Apple makes just the case for the most part and throw on a EFI device, the Mac Pro costs about $500 to manufacture.

Dual Quad Core RETAIL are $350 x 2, so wholesale, cost is $250 for both.
For sake of argument, lets say $400 for CPUs/
Motherboard $29 (again, not retail, but wholesale cost)
Ram, $50
PSU $25 (custom for apple)

Do you see yet where I'm going with this?

If you build a Mac Pro at RETAIL cost it will be about 1/3 the cost, instead of $2500, it will cost $800.00 and that is something you can build today, at cost. If you manufacture and build in the millions, the cost is half that at best, $400. 400% is $2000.00 so you see, Apple charges a lot more for a MAC PRO than it's worth. You are paying for the name, software (OS) and case and a 400%+ markup.

The simplest way to figure out is build at retail and see that cost is 1/3 (HACK AND TOSH), then divide in half for wholesale manufacturing.
.

One only has to look at the $900 dollar LOGIC BOARD replacement cost to realize how skewed Apple is and when you look at the APPLE CARE COST, it's easy to see that this is the actual cost it cost's apple to replace the whole kit, or any part. $359 for a macbook pro.
Click to expand...

An item is "worth" only as much as someone is willing to pay for it. And you my friend are talking straight out of your ass until you provide some legit sources on your claims.

EDIT: the processor alone is almost $1000.00 retail, so how exactly can you build one of these for $800.00? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117182
 
As I have posted before, apple will carve out it own niche in the "netbook" arena.

Let's look at the facts:

- It is not in Apples DNA to make a cheap computer
- Apple will want to get rid of the plastic white Macbook and replace it with something else in the (barely) under $1,000 catagory.
- Apple is a One OS company, meaning it does not have a basic, business, ultimate, netbook versions. Iphone is really not a computer it's a phone but blurs the line for sure.

So What does Apple do:

- If this tablet rumour is true, it will be a 10" Touch tablet or Netbook with a full version of OS X.
- No optical drive
-Webcam, bluetooth, airport,
-SSD option
- minimum 2 GB of RAM (but like the AIR it can not be changed or upgraded)
- decent processor
- 3G Data card built in
- Ultra light

Price: between $899 and $999

....BUT wait!!!! That would be the worlds most expensive Netbook.

That's right, but here is the rub. The tablet will be full price if you buy it with out a data package. If you sign up for a 3 year Data deal from AT&T, you will get the new computer for $499.

That would make this new apple tablet the HIGHEST quality and most powerful netbook for the mid to mid high price.
 
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