Apple 'Questioning' the Future of its Mac Pro Line?

[SVegard]

Some people can not seem to think outside their own little world.

Let me speak for all (99%+) pros on this one- NO ALL IN ONES.

While I realize I have no authority to speak for everyone, enough of them will agree as to not argue with me

Imagine, for a moment, you are working in a recording studio. You have sitting all around you: monitors (speakers) and likely more than one pair, probably more than one display, a mixing board or other controller, maybe a MIDI keyboard, your Mac keyboard, racks of effects/synths/audio I/O...

Do you really want another effing external box for all the stuff that was normally housed INSIDE your Mac Pro? Hell no!

I don`t think the Steve wannabes and "visionarbouys" in here see this from us audiofreaks point of view...it is either from graphic/3d/film point of view or from the consumers point if view.

And you are right. Lots of harddrives, cards etc. A "small mac pro" combined with that other outside gear in some of the ideas here equals the size of a Mac Pro anyways...so why split one unit up into many? And just to make it even worse. Many studios have systems running on multiple Mac Pros......

AND BESIDES MANY STUDIOS RUN PRO TOOLS HD/HDX (and other Cards/hardware). THAT CAN`T BE DONE WITH A IMAC OR A MAC MINI!

 

[KnightWRX]

Can't see Apple's own design department modeling and rendering products on a macbook. Not in this decade, at least. Can't imagine them working on a Windows machine either. I'm sure they can't afford making Mac Pros by hand just for themselves either.

As long as they need to use Mac Pro themselves, it will be available for consumers. IMO.

What makes you think Apple eats its own dog food internally ? Their data center doesn't run on Xserve's obviously.

 

[mBox]

Professionals Unite!

nice to see the numbers up on this thread.
I know Im not your normal consumer.
Where Im from, I see no less than a dozen Mac Pros.
I would have to visit a friend or the Apple Store to even see an iMac/Mac Mini.
Of course, I see as much iPhones in the wild as Mac Pros.

Do we have a voice?
I sure hope so

 

[theSeb]

Can't... contain... laughter.

You're missing the point that he is making. A typical iMac does not have all of the storage options so one would have to resort to external drives and external devices with cables all over the place. Great. Not.

 

[anthonylambert]

I think the sales are in line with the effort Apple has put into the product.

What do they expect.

I think Apple have dropped the ball with the Mac Pro... Few updates... the range should start lower, there is a big gulf between headless Mac Mini and Mac Pro.

 

[juanm]

If they built a Mac Mini Pro with twin processors, multiple thunderbolts, loads of USB3 connectors.

Also build a PCI Expansion Box with thunderbolt connectors. This can add slots to any Thunderbolt Mac. It would also turn your Mac Mini Pro back into a Mac Pro!

see http://intrl.startech.com/Cards-Ada...press-to-Four-Slot-PCI-Expansion-Bay~PEX2PCI4 ugly isn't it! Other people make them too.

Dual processors means automatically Xeon. That means 3-4 times the price.
For rendering, I'm thinking about getting a render farm. I've been doing some pricing, and (render manager aside) you can get 8 i7-2600K for the price of a Mac Pro.
GPU rendering, on the other hand, would be nice in a Mac Pro, when it becomes feasible...

 

[bpaluzzi]

You're missing the point that he is making. A typical iMac does not have all of the storage options so one would have to resort to external drives and external devices with cables all over the place. Great. Not.

It's an absolutely ludicrous point.

Here are your options:
Mac Pro
All users have a screen + cables to a massive external box

iMac
Most users can use just a screen-sized all-in-one
Power users can use a screen + cables to a small external box

Where's that space saving in the Mac Pro?

There are absolutely drawbacks to an all-in-one:
-have to replace the screen when you replace the computer
-have to send the whole computer out if the screen needs to be repaired
-have to like the screen that is bundled with the computer

But to say that a tower + screen combo is a more efficient footprint? Wow, that's rich...

 

[Abazigal]

Wow, 41 pages already. Didn't know so many people felt so passionately about the mac pro.

 

[hexx]

could it be that there are many (we don't know about them yet) ThunderBolt external hw boxes, like hw video encoders, hw 3D renderers and so on? and since you can daisy chain them and since it's PCI-X interface could be sufficient enough to do pretty amazing stuff on portable or all-in-one Apple computer?

 

[Ryox]

I don't get it, why is apple turning its back to the professional market?
No matte option for the cinema display, final cut pro mess, and now they might discontinue the mac pro?

 

[Stella]

I don't get it, why is apple turning its back to the professional market?
No matte option for the cinema display, final cut pro mess, and now they might discontinue the mac pro?

They've been turning their back for years... XServes gone etc. Nothing new. Mac Pros will be the next on the chopping board, and forcing existing customers to move to another vendor when their Mac Pros reach EOL. Potentially forcing them to drop OSX - no other powerful enough Apple machine, no OSX.

A lot of people should have lost faith in Apple for their enterprise / professional needs a long time ago - never any product road maps, short notice for EOL on Xserve, the Final Cut Pro X debacle etc etc.

Apple should be thought of as a consumer company only. When their popularity fades, which it will do, happens to all companies, Apple will have nothing to fall back on.

 

[KnightWRX]

Before abandoning the line altogether, would Apple not be better off reducing the price of the Mac Pro first?

If they abandon it, it's because it's become not enough profitable. Now you're suggesting cutting the margin even further and hoping added volume makes up for it ? (If this measure even adds significant volume at all).

 

[iasky]

Lies, Dam Lies and Rumors

Hopefully this is one of the former.

We scientists were some of the first professionals to adopt Macs as our work horses, so that we could spend more time doing research.

It would be a real shame if we had to switch back to PC's.

I think it would spell the end to Apple, as some of us original Mac adopters have come to know them. They move from a high-end speciality company to a middle-of-the-road consumer company, which is fine for most, but just doesn't cut it for me.

Without the Mac, I am am less likely to own an iPhone (5), iPad (3), iMac (3) for the kids...especially as the competition starts to catch up with Apple's innovations.

Say it's not so Apple ... and soon since I have 10K sitting in my account waiting for the next Mac Pro to come out.

Steve is already rolling over in his grave!

 

[guzhogi]

What makes you think Apple eats its own dog food internally ? Their data center doesn't run on Xserve's obviously.

I don't know what Apple uses to design their gear, but if it's not Macs, that looks really bad, IMO. ANyone with half a brain should be asking if they don't even use their own stuff, why should we?

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Wow, 41 pages already. Didn't know so many people felt so passionately about the mac pro.

Ha. Ha. When I saw the post total this AM I was thinking the same thing then I came across your post. Great point. The MP user universe may be small but so is that of Ferrari owners. The argument here is kind of like a Chevy will get me to the mall therefore a Chevy is OK for your needs (whatever they are) too.

 

[carlemil]

You're missing the point that he is making. A typical iMac does not have all of the storage options so one would have to resort to external drives and external devices with cables all over the place. Great. Not.

No professional would use internal storage for projects. That is not flexible and not good for the software running on the macs. No audio facility, editing suites or anything like that uses internal storage.
But they us eSata, PCI cards and Ethernet storage, and that's why the Mac Pro is preferred (and because it's more powerful).

Internal storage is for software applications alone.

 

[Pablo631]

Just looks at what apple has been doing over the last few years. Clearly they are moving away from their core pro users. It's only a matter of time before they pull the plug. Although the iMac core i7 is so fast, it would be more than fast enough for most pro users except for high end video and 3d rendering. Paired with a Thunderbolt raid, it would be cheaper and close in performance.

It seems Apple has forgotten who got them to where they are today. If pros where not so cult-ish mac fans, then they would of died in the early 90's.

 

[theSeb]

It's an absolutely ludicrous point.

Here are your options:
Mac Pro
All users have a screen + cables to a massive external box

iMac
Most users can use just a screen-sized all-in-one
Power users can use a screen + cables to a small external box

Where's that space saving in the Mac Pro?

There are absolutely drawbacks to an all-in-one:
-have to replace the screen when you replace the computer
-have to send the whole computer out if the screen needs to be repaired
-have to like the screen that is bundled with the computer

But to say that a tower + screen combo is a more efficient footprint? Wow, that's rich...

You missed the point by about two miles. An iMac does not have the CPU or GPU or storage that people using Mac Pros need. So what now? How do I connect other external PCI devices? Everything via thunderbolt with multiple boxes and wires, not forgetting the fact that most devices will also need a separate power cable? Great idea.

This is clearly more efficient use of space. /sarcasm

----------

No professional would use internal storage for projects. That is not flexible and not good for the software running on the macs. No audio facility, editing suites or anything like that uses internal storage.
But they us eSata, PCI cards and Ethernet storage, and that's why the Mac Pro is preferred (and because it's more powerful).

Internal storage is for software applications alone.

So your scratch disks are accessed via eSata and Ethernet? No.

 

[arkitect]

I think it would spell the end to Apple, as some of us original Mac adopters have come to know them. They move from a high-end speciality company to a middle-of-the-road consumer company, which is fine for most, but just doesn't cut it for me

But that has already happened.

I'd be sad and more than just a little pissed off if they discontinue the Mac Pros. I'd have no hesitation moving to Windows. I'd hate it, sure, but I'd get used to it and get my work done.

And for those who say an iMac will fill the gap… well… no. They actually can't.

Using a computer to make a living far outweighs it as a cuddly *magical* tool for web browsing and Facebook…

You missed the point by about two miles. An iMac does not have the CPU or GPU or storage that people using Mac Pros need. So what now? How do I connect other external PCI devices? Everything via thunderbolt with multiple boxes and wires, not forgetting the fact that most devices will also need a separate power cable? Great idea.

This is clearly more efficient use of space. /sarcasm

----------



So your scratch disks are accessed via eSata and Ethernet? No.

Excellent post.
My point exactly.

 

[Mustard Seed]

I've always been happy lurking, but this post is unbelievable.

WHAT?!??

However, 3D is a slap-stick, soulless medium that should not exist, so I wouldn't be sorry if it all got washed away.

 

[aliensporebomb]

Thoughts

When I had my G5 2.5 the best thing about that box was the expandability without headache factor.

Unfortunately, due to the excessive heat and liquid cooling system involved it became my shortest lived Apple product.

I'm using a Corei7 iMac with 16 gigs of memory now not because I particularly want to but because the lowest end Mac Pro (within price reach) was insufficient cpu power wise compared to this even though it had better I/O bandwidth and more expandability.

The real thing I miss about this is I can't upgrade my video card: it is essentially stuck and the internal drive I don't dare swap out because of the ridiculous temperature sensor bit (which I believe is more of a "let's not melt the machine down" fail safe rather than a "buy all your drives from us at great price" measure).

That being said, if a tower became available at a reasonable price I'd spring for my next machine. There are things I miss about my old tower.

 

[milo]

I have to take issue with the notion that sales have been weak because demand has been dropping off.

Isn't it just as possible that users do want to buy these machines but sales have been low because Apple's offerings in this area have been underwhelming and overpriced? The highest end machines need to be somewhat expensive because that's what the chips cost from intel, but the single CPU models are particularly bad value with weak performance (and especially the low number of ram slots for a so called "workstation" machine).

Not only are there much much cheaper PCs that wipe the floor with the base MP, it's even outperformed by some of the (cheaper) iMacs and laptops. Even the i7 mini must be pretty close. That's just sad.

I have to wonder if Apple is intentionally making the MP less appealing and the other models more so just so they can say "See, nobody wants those any more!" Kind of reminds me of Netflix making their disc by mail business worse and worse so customers avoid it and they have an excuse to shut it down.

MP is the only option for some high end users, particularly in the case of ram. 16 just isn't enough, I'm over 20 already and will likely expand that to 32 at some point. Not to mention that more ram slots allows expanding for much cheaper - 4 ram slots can do 32 gigs, but 4x8 is much much more expensive than 8x4.

 

[carlemil]

You missed the point by about two miles. An iMac does not have the CPU or GPU or storage that people using Mac Pros need. So what now? How do I connect other external PCI devices? Everything via thunderbolt with multiple boxes and wires, not forgetting the fact that most devices will also need a separate power cable? Great idea.

This is clearly more efficient use of space. /sarcasm

----------



So your scratch disks are accessed via eSata and Ethernet? No.

If your scratch disk is internal you risk corrupting your software files, because writing and reading internal while a dynamic app as fcp and pro tools, resulting in unstable performance. FireWire can handle 4k XML editing. And 7.1 24bit audio just fine. ESata and Ethernet storage is also a great way to have flexible storage without straining CPU and working as fast as internal storage.

 

[volvoben]

Aaaargh, an imac with enough ram and a thunderbolt enclosure for 4HDDs will cost me more than a damn mac pro. I think I'd just buy a laptop in that case and abandoned some of my monitors. I'd really hate having 5 ugly, less reliable, expensive external cases instead of one nice powerful case with an SSD and 4 HDDs and PCIe slots if I want to add USB3 or a second graphics card.

I could complete my job without a mac pro, but it would cost more and be more complex.

I would also absolutely look further into a hackintosh.

 

[bpaluzzi]

You missed the point by about two miles. An iMac does not have the CPU or GPU or storage that people using Mac Pros need. So what now? How do I connect other external PCI devices? Everything via thunderbolt with multiple boxes and wires, not forgetting the fact that most devices will also need a separate power cable? Great idea.

This is clearly more efficient use of space. /sarcasm

Someone's missing the point, and it's not me.

Spelling it out, slowly so you get the point:

Mac Pro setup:
1 very large box, with a cable running to the screen and a cable to the mains power
1 screen, with a cable running to the very large box and a cable to the mains power

iMac setup:
1 screen, with a cable to the mains power
if you need PCI cards, you can add:
1 small box, with a cable to the screen and a cable to mains power


The Mac Pro AS A DEFAULT needs to have these external boxes and wires that you hate so much. The iMac works without for 80% of the users, and for those that don't, it's a much smaller external box that can be added.

Hard drive space:
How much storage do people need onboard? Any one doing the level of work that "requires" a Mac Pro is using external storage via a NAS or a file server.

So your scratch disks are accessed via eSata and Ethernet? No.

And a 1TB internal is definitely not enough for a scratch disk