Actually, I do both
I manage about a dozen XServes for work and do my audio stuff at home.
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Apple 'Questioning' the Future of its Mac Pro Line?
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Actually, I do both
I manage about a dozen XServes for work and do my audio stuff at home.
Nope. Here's a perfect example - big sample libraries take a ton of ram and the newest biggest ones recommend SSD. Even in the case of internal drives, only having SATA II may be a bit of a bottleneck, but still much faster than firewire or ethernet - those just won't work on most external storage options.
If that was your point, you should have said that. You said that internal drives for scratch leads to corruption which was rightly disputed.
Yep, pro audio guy here. Everything on Mac Pro's internal drives (including one SSD). If I need to move a project I'll use an external for the transfer but copy to and from internal drives. But mostly I'll just use a thumb drive for moving projects.
The word "Pro" in a computer's name should suggest it is a high end model with the latest tech inside, not some random parts from the last decade.
You can always build a much faster and better machine for 1/4 the price of a Mac Pro and put OSX on it. End of story. Should not be hard for people calling themselves pros just because their computer is named "Pro".
You can always build a much faster and better machine for 1/4 the price of a Mac Pro and put OSX on it. End of story. Should not be hard for people calling themselves pros just because their computer is named "Pro".
Well, That Would Be a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy
If you put zero effort into marketing the device, you can expect sales to drop off. It's a tough economy and you can bet Dell is fighting for every sale. HP died, giving Apple an opportunity. Apple shouldn't expect Mac Pro simply to sell itself, just because there is a loyal base of graphics & video pros.
As for profitability, it can't be that bad. Since the product is stable and mature there just isn't that much engineering overhead is there? QA testing, manufacturing QA? All stable and streamlined.
Even at 25% of Apple computer sales, that is a huge component. If I was a major shareholder I'd be saying "now wait just a minute". In another business cycle maybe notebooks will start to saturate, and it will be nice to have Mac Pros contributing whatever they can to the bottom line.
I doubt that this will happen. If Apple wants to kick up Mac Pro sales, they need to increase their presence in the trade journals. maybe bundle Windows already installed to get an increase in the enterprise and gaming segments.
If you put zero effort into marketing the device, you can expect sales to drop off. It's a tough economy and you can bet Dell is fighting for every sale. HP died, giving Apple an opportunity. Apple shouldn't expect Mac Pro simply to sell itself, just because there is a loyal base of graphics & video pros.
As for profitability, it can't be that bad. Since the product is stable and mature there just isn't that much engineering overhead is there? QA testing, manufacturing QA? All stable and streamlined.
Even at 25% of Apple computer sales, that is a huge component. If I was a major shareholder I'd be saying "now wait just a minute". In another business cycle maybe notebooks will start to saturate, and it will be nice to have Mac Pros contributing whatever they can to the bottom line.
I doubt that this will happen. If Apple wants to kick up Mac Pro sales, they need to increase their presence in the trade journals. maybe bundle Windows already installed to get an increase in the enterprise and gaming segments.
Didn't I cover that ? Oh wait yes I did... (see the 2nd sentence of my post).
But to blanket a statement like "Ethernet is not faster than internal SATA" is quite wrong, there are ways to make it faster.
This comes as no surprise. Apple makes great products. The Mac Pro is one of those "insanely great" products, to quote the late Steve Jobs. But being insanely great isn't enough... it has to have a mass market in order to be something that Apple can really make money doing. Sometimes you have to cut off the past to think about the future, even if it hurts. In this case, Apple recognizes that the future - media consumption, ultra-portables such as iPhones/iPads, and to a lesser extent laptops and smaller desktop machines, are the future market (and current market). Apple does well by concentrating a whole lot on a few products. When the product line gets too big, Apple stumbles. Concentrate on doing a few things very well and you'll be successful. Jobs understood that and instilled that culture at Apple. It now lives on past his death.
It hurts... but it's time. Don't be shocked if this "rumor" turns out to be quite true.
It hurts... but it's time. Don't be shocked if this "rumor" turns out to be quite true.
I thought the iMac switched away from Mobile GPUs 2 refreshes ago. The current base Mac Pro uses the 5770, the 6770 is used in the iMac.
EDTI : checking, it seems they are still using mobile versions. However, the top of the line iMac GPU beats the lower-end Mac Pro offering :
Unfortunately not. The iMac is using a fairly quick mobile GPU, but it's still just a mobile GPU, due to space and heat constraints.
Yes, but I would expect people to be taking the 5870 option.
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Didn't I cover that ? Oh wait yes I did... (see the 2nd sentence of my post).
But to blanket a statement like "Ethernet is not faster than internal SATA" is quite wrong, there are ways to make it faster.
Agreed. I should have been more specific to satisfy the pedants, like you... and me.
Nothing was revised. It was my original argument. You just took it too literally to mean "all software" after the XXth time I mentionned no one was denying there was a need for high-end computing.
That 25% figure was total desktop sales, not Mac Pro sales. It would include the very popular Mac Mini and iMac product lines. Those are far more popular than the Mac Pro.
I wouldn't say pedant. If you aren't educated with your equipment then you are at a major disadvantage in a pro market.
I can always tell a good DJ or sound engineer by the fact they intimately know their hardware and can use the correct terms.
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Probably when he missread the news about HP pulling out of some of the desktop hardware sector, and then didn't read about HP doing a 180 on that decision.
I'm a designer, I have limited space already in my home studio. ATM I have a cintiq as my primary monitor/input method and a second colour accurate display for colour proofing. I have my Mac Pro neatly placed under the desk containing a newly installed flashed PC graphics card and 4xHD's.
I can't imagine having to sacrifice this very neat setup for an all in one iMac (non) solution. Being forced to make space for the machine on my desktop, having to use the colour inaccurate glossy display (likely to be 27" as to attain the top specs) and daisy spaghetti linking everything together externally using extortionately priced TB cables. This would be a nightmare for me.
I too feel that Apple has neglected the prosumer in favour of the consumer, especially over the last 3 years. The death of the Mac Pro would signal for me the day I lost my faith in Apple.
I can't imagine having to sacrifice this very neat setup for an all in one iMac (non) solution. Being forced to make space for the machine on my desktop, having to use the colour inaccurate glossy display (likely to be 27" as to attain the top specs) and daisy spaghetti linking everything together externally using extortionately priced TB cables. This would be a nightmare for me.
I too feel that Apple has neglected the prosumer in favour of the consumer, especially over the last 3 years. The death of the Mac Pro would signal for me the day I lost my faith in Apple.
Well, shocking thought.... Apple never wanted Pro users anyway. Steve certainly didn't.
His original idea was for the GUI really, the hardware it ran on was irrelevant. He wanted to make an easy to use computer, and I doubt that was really for "Pro" users. Steve wanted to make computing easy and accessible for the masses.....
It was only the price that gave it that "Pro" niche. I have a real feeling the Mac classis was supposed to be the iMac. Small, simple, computer for everybody. It was only post steve that the hardware turned into Quardras and Powermacs and beige boxes and when you don't sell big volumes then high priced high end, high margin products like "Pro" stuff matters.
Fast forward, steve's come and gone, iMacs, iBooks, ultraportables, iPods and finally iPads.... steve has finally realized his original vision to change the world by making computing simple and a part of everyone's life..... "Pro" users don't fit into this vision... and short of the price, Pro users didn't fit into Steve and his Mac Classic style vision either.
The biggest legacy from Mac OS X, the switch to intel and Apple's choice of standards support in the iPhone and pad gave rise to one simple thing. Platform independence.
Exactly, that's a point many seem to forget. This isn't a hard machine to build, they can basically take an intel design and make a few tweaks to it. The case hasn't changed in a decade, which is not a big deal. Every other computer they make has very tight design constraints (including mobile parts in many of them). Compared to that, updating the MP every year or so is dirt cheap, they don't need to sell many of them to make a profit. And even if they're not making a lot of money on these models, there is the halo effect as others have mentioned - pros using the MP are likely to buy macs at home, for family members...which means more likely to use iPhone, iPad, iPod as well.
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So rumor has it that by the end of 2012 the only Macs left will be mini, iMac and MacBook Air (11-15 or 17"). If true I will have to get Adobe CS6 for Windows and switch. I really don't like this idea. But if Apple only wants to sell limited machines I'd have to replace every year they will leave me no choice.
Sorry, intel integrated graphics don't do it for me and the iMacs screen is unusable even as a secondary display because of its constant reflections - I tried it for 3 years and never want to use that again.
So rumor has it that by the end of 2012 the only Macs left will be mini, iMac and MacBook Air (11-15 or 17"). If true I will have to get Adobe CS6 for Windows and switch. I really don't like this idea. But if Apple only wants to sell limited machines I'd have to replace every year they will leave me no choice.
Sorry, intel integrated graphics don't do it for me and the iMacs screen is unusable even as a secondary display because of its constant reflections - I tried it for 3 years and never want to use that again.
Actually, I do both
I manage about a dozen XServes for work and do my audio stuff at home.
The company I work for has about 2 dozen or so xServes. While xServes & Mac Pros might not sell as well as other Apple products, they can serve as gateway devices. Apple's pretty good at having an integrated ecosystem. Due to this (and other reasons), people might be more persuaded to buy other Apple products like MacBooks, iPods/iPhones, etc.
As for the people who are saying iMacs are better since it's a smaller footprint or and you could do a lot with Thunderbolt. Unfortunately, Thunderbolt isn't as fast as the Mac Pro's x16 PCI-e slots, so some higher-end products might not reach their full potential. Once Thunderbolt supports DisplayPort 1.2 and PCI-E 3.0, it'll be better, but still no replacement for full x16 PCI-E slots, IMO.
If Apple had more frequent Mac Pro updates (even if it's just an updated GPU, or just faster CPUs, or just bigger/faster hard drives), I'm sure Apple will sell more.
Just because your work only requires an iMac or iPad, doesn't mean a Pro computer is niche.
At the end of the day, Intel may introduce new Mac Pro CPUs and Apple may refresh their Mac Pro. It will make this thread > /dev/null until another year.
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What you say is correct (IMHO) but Apple have trumpeted their "Pro" credentials in ads plenty of times over the years. The message they were sending was Apple computers were amchines powerful enough for the pros to use.
wyrmintheapple said:
What you say is correct (IMHO) but Apple have trumpeted their "Pro" credentials in ads plenty of times over the years. The message they were sending was Apple computers were amchines powerful enough for the pros to use.
MacPro "expandibility" sucks...how many graphics cards work in my 1,1 MacPro? Only a handful...
I'm considering a Mac Mini w/ graphics card to replace my MacPro...at least it's not that expensive.