Apple Receives Permit From California DMV to Test Self-Driving Cars [Updated]

[firewood]

It does not matter if the self driving cars are 100 times safer. First death is a lawsuit for $ 100 million and the end of the program, followed by a crying jury, picture of the death, and posters calling Apple a killer.

The insurance companies will pay it out of petty cash, then raise the insurance rates sky high on all non-self-driving cars, since the human drivers of those are now legally found to be 100X more likely to be at fault in all future injury and deadly crashes. Think about what the juries will say about all those human drivers (you did something 100X more dangerous!?, and killed someone!, please rot in jail for manslaughter).

Only extremely rich people will be able to afford to drive their own (exotic?) cars, maybe only on their own closed private streets and highways.

 

[itguy06]

You can either pollute a lot with fossil fuels, or less with electric cars. It's not that hard to understand. Also, electricity is electricity and the car doesn't care how it was generated, so over time as electric power becomes more cleanly generated, the cars are inherently cleaner to run. So it makes sense to get the infrastructure going now. No point waiting for some mythical 100% pure zero-impact power source.

Like I said - add up all the emissions from the cradle to the grave of the green energy. Like the creation of solar panels, shipping, maintenance, etc. Same with wind, except add in the maintenance of them. And you really don't pollute much with a car either. Diesels now put out emissions that are, in many cases, cleaner than the air that goes into them. Cars basically emit CO2 (which if you remember back to your High School Chemistry class is what plants use for food to turn into O2) and water which, is, well water.

Don't forget NiMH and LiIon batteries have some nasty side effects too.

Put on your critical thinking cap instead of what they (both sides) feed you. If you believe in the "Climate Change will kill us all" nonsense perhaps the answer is less population on the Earth. Look at the population of Earth vs CO2 levels and temperature and you'll see they are pretty closely aligned. We are killing the natural feedback loop (plants) to put food on the table and to provide shelter for an ever increasing population.

It's not that hard to understand if you take the political nonsense out from both sides - the chicken littles that depend on grants and other $$ to keep them employed and those that want to fatten their wallets.

 

[AppleScruff1]

That's not what you're doing when you and people of your ilk like "blade boy" take people to the woodshed for actually having *gasp* good experiences with said products. Apple Maps is very competitive at this stage in the US in my neck of the woods anyway. And for many others. But that still isn't good enough for you. You think it sucks and that is that. It doesn't work for you, it couldn't possibly work for anyone else and they are wrong for having such a decent experience with [insert product of choice here].

No debate, no leeway otherwise.

EVERYTHING has room for improvement. Google Maps' GUI included. I honestly couldn't use one or the other exclusively since neither is the holy grail in my usage cases.

Please stop with the faux indignation. It's transparent and intellectually dishonest.

I haven't bought a new Mac since my 2011 MBP. Nor will I until they become a little more open and upgradable again on the user-side. So while I prefer Apple products on the whole, I'm hardly a "fanboy" yet see that everything they do isn't garbage.

"People of my ilk" Priceless.

 

[stephenriw]

anyway, big step. Just wonder Apple's plan on autonomous software, or vehicles, or both.

Apple has been granted a permit that enables it to test autonomous vehicles on public roads in the state of California, according to the California DMV website (via Business Insider).

Apple was added to the list of permit holders that are allowed to participate in the Autonomous Vehicle Tester Program in California on Friday, joining companies like Google, Tesla, BMW, Honda, Ford, Nissan, and more.

Obtaining a permit for autonomous vehicle testing requires multiple steps, including outlining details for each specific vehicle being tested, suggesting Apple may have some sort of software test vehicle that's road ready. Whether Apple will actually begin testing a vehicle remains to be seen, as some companies sign up and then don't go on to use it, but should Apple begin vehicle testing, public reports will need to be filed.

In California, all companies that participate in the Autonomous Vehicle Testing Program must file Disengagement Reports that outline how many miles were covered with self-driving vehicles, so if Apple does test a vehicle, the information will be shared on the DMV's website.

Apple's acceptance into the Autonomous Vehicle Tester Program confirms the company's work on a car-related project. Early rumors suggested Apple was developing its own autonomous electric vehicle, but Apple is said to have since transitioned to building an autonomous driving system rather than a full blown car.

Developed under the leadership of Bob Mansfield, Apple's autonomous driving system could allow it to partner with existing car makers or return to its own car development project in the future. Apple executives have reportedly given the car team until 2017 to prove the feasibility of an Apple-designed autonomous driving system, and its approval to road-test vehicles could be a signal that the project is advancing.

Update: According to Bloomberg, Apple filed for a permit because it plans to start testing its self-driving car software platform on public streets. The software will be put in existing cars, with the permit covering three 2015 Lexus RX450h SUVs and six drivers, according to a DMV spokesperson.

Article Link: Apple Receives Permit From California DMV to Test Self-Driving Cars [Updated]

 

[Eric5h5]

Convenient, your use case fits an electric car perfectly. My use case is to drive for 3 hours, take a 3 minute break and continue. I dont know anyone who takes continual 30 minute breaks. I don't know where this is better for 99% of
the "people". Seems like in CA where people can drive for 300 miles r/t it isn't better for 99% of the people. For taxis better off with a Prius, less down time means more money made.

The vast majority of people don't drive for hundreds and hundreds of miles continuously. That's reality, plus driver fatigue causing accidents is real too. For most people, electric cars are more convenient for daily use than gas, since there's no "have to go to the gas station". Instead it's always charged in the morning.

Like I said - add up all the emissions from the cradle to the grave of the green energy. Like the creation of solar panels, shipping, maintenance, etc. Same with wind, except add in the maintenance of them.

Yes, do that. Add up all the costs associated with fossil fuels. That's why electric cars win handily.

Diesels now put out emissions that are, in many cases, cleaner than the air that goes into them.

That's not even slightly true (I'm sure Volkswagen would be happy to hear it, though), and is chemically impossible given what diesel is made of and the nature of combustion.

Cars basically emit CO2 (which if you remember back to your High School Chemistry class is what plants use for food to turn into O2) and water which, is, well water.

"Basically", plus the other things (nitrogen, carbon monoxide, soot, etc.), not to mention the CO2 is undesirable considering the circumstances. Might want to go back to high school chemistry, and start engaging in the critical thinking you mentioned.

--Eric

 

[I7guy]

The vast majority of people don't drive for hundreds and hundreds of miles continuously. That's reality, plus driver fatigue causing accidents is real too. For most people, electric cars are more convenient for daily use than gas, since there's no "have to go to the gas station". Instead it's always charged in the morning.

Yet the corridor between NY and Boston is packed. A five hour trip where an EV won't do the distance. An EV is not more convenient, kills the environment like petroleum, battery disposal is an issue and except for a select few people thebise case doesn't fit.

 

[cocoua]

I hope it's not using Apple Maps for directions.

hahaha , I hope it's not using Siri for anything

 

[itguy06]

Yes, do that. Add up all the costs associated with fossil fuels. That's why electric cars win handily.

Hardly is more like it.

That's not even slightly true (I'm sure Volkswagen would be happy to hear it, though), and is chemically impossible given what diesel is made of and the nature of combustion.


"Basically", plus the other things (nitrogen, carbon monoxide, soot, etc.), not to mention the CO2 is undesirable considering the circumstances. Might want to go back to high school chemistry, and start engaging in the critical thinking you mentioned.

Well, we have gas engines with tailpipes cleaner than Chicago's backgorund air:
http://www.livescience.com/52284-volkswagen-scandal-clean-diesel-challenges.html

"After exhaust comes out of a gasoline engine, the air is actually cleaner than the background air in Chicago," Hillebrand said.

Even Diesel trucks are that clean:
http://www.truckinginfo.com/channel...yndra-redemption-clean-diesel-technology.aspx

Today, a 2011 model-year tractor equipped with clean diesel technology and powered by ultra-low sulfur diesel is a virtual clean air machine; the exhaust emitted is cleaner than the engine intake air. The most harmful emissions are equivalent to, and in some cases less than, engines powered by natural gas, ethanol or biodiesel.

Go back to Chemistry class. N2 (Nitrogen) is also a fertilizer. Again, if you look at the causes of the farce known as Climate Change you'll see it's just that - a huge farce designed to drain everyone's wallets. CO2 is not the devil - it's easily cleaned up by plants. We just need to stop removing them to house more people.

 

[Eric5h5]

An EV is not more convenient, kills the environment like petroleum, battery disposal is an issue and except for a select few people thebise case doesn't fit.

Wrong on all counts. Not only do electric cars fit the use case for by far most people right now, advances in the tech will cover 100% sooner or later. No arguing with someone who doesn't want to face reality, though.

Go back to Chemistry class. N2 (Nitrogen) is also a fertilizer. Again, if you look at the causes of the farce known as Climate Change you'll see it's just that - a huge farce designed to drain everyone's wallets. CO2 is not the devil - it's easily cleaned up by plants. We just need to stop removing them to house more people.

Ah, so you're a conspiracy theorist science denier. Your lack of facts, logic, and reality make sense now.

--Eric

 

[itguy06]

Wrong on all counts. Not only do electric cars fit the use case for by far most people right now, advances in the tech will cover 100% sooner or later. No arguing with someone who doesn't want to face reality, though.


Ah, so you're a conspiracy theorist science denier. Your lack of facts, logic, and reality make sense now.

LOL. Thanks for the laugh. I was waiting for that drivel to come from you. That's usually what the argument comes to when you have nothing. I'm nowhere near a "science denier". It's just that the science on Climate Change solely from Mankind is sketchy at best.....

But carry on with your FARCE. Luckily I remember enough science classes to realize that someone is trying to pull the wool over people's eyes with this nonsense.

 

[I7guy]

Wrong on all counts. Not only do electric cars fit the use case for by far most people right now, advances in the tech will cover 100% sooner or later. No arguing with someone who doesn't want to face reality, though.


Ah, so you're a conspiracy theorist science denier. Your lack of facts, logic, and reality make sense now.

--Eric

So okay we we have different opinions, neither of which is "wrong".

 

[Piggie]

Yeah right... So their daughters can spend more time in the back seat with their boyfriends?

Not quite sure what you mean by "go out down the town".....
... go down on the town?
... do the town?
or... go out/down on the town?

No matter what you may have meant, most fathers would prefer the boyfriend's hands are on the wheel, and not elsewhere.

I disagree

What would you rather have, a daughter that's been kissed a bit too much
Or a daughter in a body bag?
[doublepost=1492462028][/doublepost]

Self driving cars will never be able to cross a mountain pass on a highway covered in a foot of snow - or travel on a city street in similar conditions.
And no, people will not accept the pass or road being closed until "conditions allow".

I would not be brave enough to say NEVER

Never is a long time

 

[alecgold]

Hardly is more like it.


Well, we have gas engines with tailpipes cleaner than Chicago's backgorund air:
http://www.livescience.com/52284-volkswagen-scandal-clean-diesel-challenges.html


Even Diesel trucks are that clean:
http://www.truckinginfo.com/channel...yndra-redemption-clean-diesel-technology.aspx



Go back to Chemistry class. N2 (Nitrogen) is also a fertilizer. Again, if you look at the causes of the farce known as Climate Change you'll see it's just that - a huge farce designed to drain everyone's wallets. CO2 is not the devil - it's easily cleaned up by plants. We just need to stop removing them to house more people.

If it is so clean, go stand next to a big truck and inhale those healthy black fumes!!
It's better than chicago's background pollution after all?!
[doublepost=1492463448][/doublepost]I'm not saying electric is perfect, but living next to a highway/motorway will lower your life expectancy with several years, just from the gases and particles.

What it your references do say is that the carbon monoxide should be low if it is well tuned and properly running, sulphuric compounds can be low if the right fuel is used, particles can be low if an expensive particle filter is installed, but co2 levels, NOx levels, oxygen levels and remaining (not specified) gasses still will kill you in 5-10 minutes if you breathe it directly and will kill you prematurely in 25-30 years if inhaled in low, but not low enough concentrations, most likely in the form of exotic lung cancers, COPD etc

 

[ManojOne]

Apple is the leader of innovations, so should take serious efforts to make it hack proof and free from Uber like issues.

 

[groove-agent]

I suspect Apple could be leading people to believe they're only working on the software. However, that wouldn't make sense? They're about making money off of hardware which runs great software. I think they're still working on an Apple car.

I think that this project is too much to swallow for Apple. They should focus on their core products before taking on a project of this size.

 

[developer13245]

I disagree

What would you rather have, a daughter that's been kissed a bit too much
Or a daughter in a body bag?
[doublepost=1492462028][/doublepost]

I would not be brave enough to say NEVER

Never is a long time

kissing and body bags is an apples to oranges comparison...
It isn't about kissing... It's about rape, pregnancy, HIV - which IS a body bags to body bags comparison.

It's just another way to die:

I can say with 100% certainty that you've NEVER driven across a mountain pass on a road covered in a foot of snow.

 

[Piggie]

Apple is the leader of innovations, so should take serious efforts to make it hack proof and free from Uber like issues.

I had to laugh, as I think pretty much everyone knows that's incorrect.

Most say Apple will come along and put hardware and software together in a nice package, but LEADING innovations?

 

[Col4bin]

The mistake you're making is thinking it needs to be 100%, which is in fact not possible. All it needs is to be noticeably better than humans, which is certainly possible. Don't try to make the perfect the enemy of the good.

The real question is how soon can autonomous cars rollout en mass to the public while proving to be nearly 100% safe? How much improvement to current road, highway and bridge infrastructure is also necessary?

 

[wigby]

Seems like the electricity needed to charge teslas batteries come from fossil fuels, coal or nuclear. Or in Iceland geothermal springs.

Tesla batteries and motors aren't reliant on fossil fuels. They can get power from many zero emission and finite resources like wind and solar. Combustion engines require fossil fuels. So yes, the current energy grid is mostly based on coal and gas and oil but that has and will continue to change. Two things that will not change are the dwindling supply of fossil fuels and the reliance of combustion engines (and most of the auto industry) on those finite resources. Fossil fuels might outlive us both but that doesn't mean we have to wait until the last minute to make adjustments to our energy consumption and the grid.

 

[itguy06]

If it is so clean, go stand next to a big truck and inhale those healthy black fumes!!
It's better than chicago's background pollution after all?!

Not sure where you are from but here in the USA I've not seen black smoke from Diesels in a while. Most of them have quite normal looking and smelling exhausts.

I'm not saying electric is perfect, but living next to a highway/motorway will lower your life expectancy with several years, just from the gases and particles.

What it your references do say is that the carbon monoxide should be low if it is well tuned and properly running, sulphuric compounds can be low if the right fuel is used, particles can be low if an expensive particle filter is installed, but co2 levels, NOx levels, oxygen levels and remaining (not specified) gasses still will kill you in 5-10 minutes if you breathe it directly and will kill you prematurely in 25-30 years if inhaled in low, but not low enough concentrations, most likely in the form of exotic lung cancers, COPD etc

Huh? You do know it's incredibly hard to kill yourself with a modern car in good working order right? Its not like before where the fumes will kill you in short order.

Those "studies" that say "pollution kills" are always interesting. How do they determine that the death was the DIRECT RESULT of pollution? vs, say genetics or some other issue. For example, maybe those that live near a highway smoke more often or have allergies (not blamed on pollution) or have a family history of cancer? Seems to me that they are grasping at straws to push an agenda with a lot of those "studies".
[doublepost=1492525542][/doublepost]

Tesla batteries and motors aren't reliant on fossil fuels. They can get power from many zero emission and finite resources like wind and solar. Combustion engines require fossil fuels. So yes, the current energy grid is mostly based on coal and gas and oil but that has and will continue to change. Two things that will not change are the dwindling supply of fossil fuels and the reliance of combustion engines (and most of the auto industry) on those finite resources. Fossil fuels might outlive us both but that doesn't mean we have to wait until the last minute to make adjustments to our energy consumption and the grid.

Really? How do those batteries get made? Hint: Petroleum runs the mines. How do those motors and batteries get to the factory? Hint: Trucks.

And Petroleum is not all fossil fuels. Look up abiotic oil theory. They have been saying we are at "peak oil" for nearly a decade now and yet we are finding more and more....

 

[I7guy]

Tesla batteries and motors aren't reliant on fossil fuels. They can get power from many zero emission and finite resources like wind and solar. Combustion engines require fossil fuels. So yes, the current energy grid is mostly based on coal and gas and oil but that has and will continue to change. Two things that will not change are the dwindling supply of fossil fuels and the reliance of combustion engines (and most of the auto industry) on those finite resources. Fossil fuels might outlive us both but that doesn't mean we have to wait until the last minute to make adjustments to our energy consumption and the grid.

But in most areas of the country they don't. In NYC tesla batteries get energy from con ed, NJ nuclear reactor. All electric does is NIMBY. Someone else will get the emissions that used to come from the tail pipe.

 

[wigby]

But in most areas of the country they don't. In NYC tesla batteries get energy from con ed, NJ nuclear reactor. All electric does is NIMBY. Someone else will get the emissions that used to come from the tail pipe.

Not sure what your point is. We know that no energy is free but some sources are cleaner and more renewable than others. So we slowly migrate to cleaner more renewable ones over the next 50 years.
[doublepost=1492536794][/doublepost]

Not sure where you are from but here in the USA I've not seen black smoke from Diesels in a while. Most of them have quite normal looking and smelling exhausts.



Huh? You do know it's incredibly hard to kill yourself with a modern car in good working order right? Its not like before where the fumes will kill you in short order.

Those "studies" that say "pollution kills" are always interesting. How do they determine that the death was the DIRECT RESULT of pollution? vs, say genetics or some other issue. For example, maybe those that live near a highway smoke more often or have allergies (not blamed on pollution) or have a family history of cancer? Seems to me that they are grasping at straws to push an agenda with a lot of those "studies".
[doublepost=1492525542][/doublepost]

Really? How do those batteries get made? Hint: Petroleum runs the mines. How do those motors and batteries get to the factory? Hint: Trucks.

And Petroleum is not all fossil fuels. Look up abiotic oil theory. They have been saying we are at "peak oil" for nearly a decade now and yet we are finding more and more....

Why are you comparing petroleum that runs mines to emissions from homes and automobiles? The big machines that require petroleum are a fraction of all other emissions. No one is in favor of shutting off all fossil fuels. That's why we cut back where they are less necessary and increase their use where they are more necessary. People are finally coming around to the idea that they don't need combustion engines for normal commutes. They are also understanding that they can use large batteries to cool their homes during peak hours for instance. This only eases the burden on all kinds of energy needs.

 

[alecgold]

Huh? You do know it's incredibly hard to kill yourself with a modern car in good working order right? Its not like before where the fumes will kill you in short order.

Nah, with 1,5-4% oxygen in the exhaust gasses, you die pretty quickly just from oxygen starvation.
And a big diesel is really something different than a three cilinder petrol dinky toy.
[doublepost=1492552186][/doublepost]

Not sure what your point is. We know that no energy is free but some sources are cleaner and more renewable than others. So we slowly migrate to cleaner more renewable ones over the next 50 years.
[doublepost=1492536794][/doublepost]
Why are you comparing petroleum that runs mines to emissions from homes and automobiles? The big machines that require petroleum are a fraction of all other emissions. No one is in favor of shutting off all fossil fuels. That's why we cut back where they are less necessary and increase their use where they are more necessary. People are finally coming around to the idea that they don't need combustion engines for normal commutes. They are also understanding that they can use large batteries to cool their homes during peak hours for instance. This only eases the burden on all kinds of energy needs.

Diesel-electric with battery packs and smart systems that shut down non essential systems during peak power moments for tug boats e. g.
The diesels can run much more efficient because they can run much often and longer at 80% and during waiting periods the ship is run from the batteries and/or 1 Smal power pack.

 

[MacAddict1978]

"Sorry i cant drive without updating. Please connect the car to the charger and wifi."

On serious note: i dont find it all that.

But wait.....

Once you charge: "The terms and conditions have changed. PLease sign into the ITunes store from a totally different device to accept the terms and conditions."

And then you go to start up and.... "For your security, please verify your credit card on file, especially if downloading a free app to your Apple TV on a totally different device."

And then.... maybe..... the car would start, if you don't have to verify you signed into your account from a new device.

Twenty minutes later.... you could have walk to 7-11 and back

I also fear that Siri may be the AI in the car. God help us all. "Siri, take me to the nearest fuel."
Siri then drive into nuclear power plant.... becomes self aware.... and requires people to log into their iTunes accounts to verify their credit cards because she can only do 3 things.

 

[I7guy]

Not sure what your point is. We know that no energy is free but some sources are cleaner and more renewable than others. So we slowly migrate to cleaner more renewable ones over the next 50 years.
[doublepost=1492536794][/doublepost]
Why are you comparing petroleum that runs mines to emissions from homes and automobiles? The big machines that require petroleum are a fraction of all other emissions. No one is in favor of shutting off all fossil fuels. That's why we cut back where they are less necessary and increase their use where they are more necessary. People are finally coming around to the idea that they don't need combustion engines for normal commutes. They are also understanding that they can use large batteries to cool their homes during peak hours for instance. This only eases the burden on all kinds of energy needs.

Lithium is not cleaner, nor renewable. I'm not sure of why you say that. There is no such thing as 100 clean and renewable energy on the scale the planet needs it. The goal of reducing emissions is a great one, but electric vehicles shift around the emissions from the tail pipe to something else. However, there is not disagreement from me, powering a car by electricity is more efficient than gas, by about 60%. The future really is in hybrids and or hybrid EVs. And electric vehicles seem to not suit the lifestyle of many people. A prius hybrid EV is projected to go over 600 miles on a tank of gas.