Apple 'Records Every Tap' in App Store to Filter New Personalized Recommendations Feature

[MrSnirf]

How does this break your privacy?

If an entity is tracking your activities on a device you own and transferring that data to their server, there is no privacy. No matter how much they use legal speak to minimize their action by saying it is anonymized, encrypted, impersonal, not sold (lol). If that information wasn't valuable, they wouldn't be collecting it in the first place. Apple is among one of the most intrusive companies when it comes to collecting data on customers.

Personalized advertising need to be banned entirely.

 

[GeoStructural]

Wait till the EU hear about this! lol

The fanboys will still defend it because Apple cannot do wrong.

 

[vertsix]

Really? So you believe that Apple knowing what you 'tap' on the App Store is such a shocking breach of privacy that you cannot longer use it in the same way? That Apple employees are giggling at the way an anonymous user downloaded a productivity app?

It is because you can infer browsing habits and even purchasing habits from users.

 

[tkermit]

I have some bad news for everyone: every app and website you use already does that.

And online chat support (for virtually every website): they can read what you’re typing and editing before you press “send”.

I bet you're right. Should honestly be illegal though, along with many other "dark patterns", unless the behavior is transparently communicated or clearly beneficial to the user.

 

[Apple_Robert]

If you guys and gals don't think Apple has been tracking search results on their own store long before this story, you have been asleep at the proverbial wheel.

I don't see how this, in and of itself, is an invasion of privacy. Granted, what @turbineseaplane said rings true and we all need to be mindful of what apps we load and what permissions are allowed.

If Apple were collecting data and personal user information from third party app logins and usage (eg. password managers etc), that would be cause for alarm.

What many of you are ranting about with this occurs with every web search (just to name one example). And a lot of you knowingly use Google because it gives you the results you want. Think about that double standard.

 

[CarAnalogy]

...and I thought Apple is all in about privacy? 🤔

They seem to define it more like client privilege. They don't want any OTHER company to know everything about you. Only them.

 

[CarAnalogy]

If you guys and gals don't think Apple has been tracking search results on their own store long before this story, you have been asleep at the proverbial wheel.

I don't see how this, in and of itself, is an invasion of privacy. Granted, what @turbineseaplane said rings true and we all need to be mindful of what apps we load and what permissions are allowed.

If Apple were collecting data and personal user information from third party app logins and usage (eg. password managers etc), that would be cause for alarm.

What many of you are ranting about with this occurs with every web search (just to name one example). And a lot of you knowingly use Google because it gives you the results you want. Think about that double standard.

I agree that it's not an invasion of privacy. You're already sending them the data. They're just being really obsessive about how they use it, and not in our favor.

My only issue with it is that the App Store has become the absolute antithesis of what it was supposed to be. They know it's become every bit as bad as what it replaced, but they don't care because they control it.

It's just galling to me they put so much effort into something like this, but not into actually making the app something I want to use in the first place.

 

[benface]

Bad Apple. Really really bad.

 

[CarAnalogy]

The problem with collecting this type of granular data is eventually the temptation to exploit it for financial gains becomes too much.

The best way to protect yourself from that is "don't collect this sort of data at all".

Exactly. Apple could be all about privacy when they weren't focused on making money via ads.

 

[tkermit]

They seem to define it more like client privilege. They don't want any OTHER company to know everything about you. Only them.

Don't think that's totally fair. Obviously they're interested in knowing what you search for on the App Store, in as much detail as possible. But if they truly wanted to know everything about you, they wouldn't come up with technologies like iCloud Private Relay or iCloud's Advanced Data Protection. Both of them actively prevent not just other parties, but even Apple themselves to know everything about you.

Where user web browsing requests utilize Private Relay, Apple is not able to determine the user client IP address or the corresponding user account from the Private Relay IP addresses. Apple has no information to provide regarding the AppleID associated with the Private Relay IP address.

https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/law-enforcement-guidelines-us.pdf

About iCloud Private Relay - Apple Support

iCloud Private Relay — part of an iCloud+ subscription — helps protect your privacy when you browse the web in Safari.

support.apple.com

iCloud data security overview - Apple Support

iCloud uses strong security methods, employs strict policies to protect your information, and leads the industry in using privacy-preserving security technologies like end-to-end encryption for your data.

support.apple.com

 

[Apple_Robert]

I agree that it's not an invasion of privacy. You're already sending them the data. They're just being really obsessive about how they use it, and not in our favor.

My only issue with it is that the App Store has become the absolute antithesis of what it was supposed to be. They know it's become every bit as bad as what it replaced, but they don't care because they control it.

It's just galling to me they put so much effort into something like this, but not into actually making the app something I want to use in the first place.

You bring up some valid points. The problem is Apple isn't a mom and pop operation that inherently needs to put customers first. I think many are looking at this scenario through the small business lens.

I think MR people need to be far more concerned about Apple AI integration, collection, and security, than this common anomaly.

I am not happy with some of the things Apple has done (App Store adverts etc) recently. We users are going to really need to depend on security researchers to help protect us and keep Apple honest. If not for security people, we all would be in serious tribe.

 

[ace8cjc]

It feels like there is some un-checked Services exec at Apple, who was likely with a company like Meta before, who doesn’t understand Apple’s value proposition at all. They have been given the green light to pursue short-term profit at all cost, regardless of how it impacts Apple’s long-term reputation.

Ads in settings, ads in Apple Maps, and now this kind of meta/google-esque type of hyper-tracking.

Ternus needs to find this person and reign them in. Otherwise, we’re going to eventually get ads in spotlight itself if this kind of trajectory continues.

 

[CarAnalogy]

Don't think that's totally fair. Obviously they're interested in knowing what you search for on the App Store, in as much detail as possible. But if they truly wanted to know everything about you, they wouldn't come up with technologies like iCloud Private Relay or iCloud's Advanced Data Protection. Both of them actively prevent not just other parties, but even Apple themselves to know everything about you.

https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/law-enforcement-guidelines-us.pdf

About iCloud Private Relay - Apple Support

iCloud Private Relay — part of an iCloud+ subscription — helps protect your privacy when you browse the web in Safari.

support.apple.com

iCloud data security overview - Apple Support

iCloud uses strong security methods, employs strict policies to protect your information, and leads the industry in using privacy-preserving security technologies like end-to-end encryption for your data.

support.apple.com

But Apple controls the endpoint. So they can access whatever they choose to access, in decrypted form.

I agree with you that they don't usually do that, and do not in fact want to know EVERYTHING about you.

But they are starting to want to know more, and for advertising purposes. And that is a very slippery slope into a bad place.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Exactly. Apple could be all about privacy when they weren't focused on making money via ads.

100%

Them getting into ADs was "the camels nose" and flies in the face of their "Privacy" marketing.

Being all in on Privacy & ADs simultaneously is an enormous contradiction as those two goals fight each other at every step.

 

[tkermit]

But Apple controls the endpoint. So they can access whatever they choose to access, in decrypted form.

I agree with you that they don't usually do that, and do not in fact want to know EVERYTHING about you.

But they are starting to want to know more, and for advertising purposes. And that is a very slippery slope into a bad place.

Agreed about the slippery slope. As for the endpoint, that is true of course. In the end you have to trust their privacy policy. All bets are off if you can't trust that.

 

[CarAnalogy]

You bring up some valid points. The problem is Apple isn't a mom and pop operation that inherently needs to put customers first. I think many are looking at this scenario through the small business lens.

I think MR people need to be far more concerned about Apple AI integration, collection, and security, than this common anomaly.

I am not happy with some of the things Apple has done (App Store adverts etc) recently. We users are going to really need to depend on security researchers to help protect us and keep Apple honest. If not for security people, we all would be in serious tribe.

To me it just boils down to the fact that I haven't opened the App Store for anything but updates in years.

There's no true discoverability, there's no real editorial content, there's no high quality curation. All the things they claim it is, that might make me open it and look around like we used to back in 2010 or so.

It's just an ad platform and a way for them to skim a ridiculous amount of money off of (often literal) casino games.

It's just a good example of where Apple wants to maintain this shining, perfect image of themselves on the one side, but then there's this other side they won't really discuss outside of court when forced to.

 

[GeoStructural]

Guess what this site also does?
View attachment 2639047

Yep, look at all the trackers they have as well, it is ridiculously hypocritical.

 

[Apple_Robert]

To me it just boils down to the fact that I haven't opened the App Store for anything but updates in years.

There's no true discoverability, there's no real editorial content, there's no high quality curation. All the things they claim it is, that might make me open it and look around like we used to back in 2010 or so.

It's just an ad platform and a way for them to skim a ridiculous amount of money off of (often literal) casino games.

It's just a good example of where Apple wants to maintain this shining, perfect image of themselves on the one side, but then there's this other side they won't really discuss outside of court when forced to.

Excellent points and I do the same kind of thing. If I want to discover new worthwhile apps, I look to my fellow MR members and or do my own research. In my opinion, the store appears to be geared more for kids and those who are looking for the latest and coolest trend app, versus us dinosaurs wanting to cut through the fluff and find something that works for us and can be depended on.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

It is because you can infer browsing habits and even purchasing habits from users.

In the same way that store loyalty cards track your purchases? I'm not exactly sitting here shocked.

 

[lowendlinux]

I'll post the same thing here as I did on Mastodon. I wonder when/if people will get tired of this

 

[Ct applefan]

In the same way that store loyalty cards track your purchases? I'm not exactly sitting here shocked.

Do loyalty cards tout privacy as a business policy? Apple is full of s**t lately when it comes to privacy

 

[turbineseaplane]

To me it just boils down to the fact that I haven't opened the App Store for anything but updates in years.

There's no true discoverability, there's no real editorial content, there's no high quality curation. All the things they claim it is, that might make me open it and look around like we used to back in 2010 or so.

It's just an ad platform and a way for them to skim a ridiculous amount of money off of (often literal) casino games.

It's just a good example of where Apple wants to maintain this shining, perfect image of themselves on the one side, but then there's this other side they won't really discuss outside of court when forced to.

Thank you for saying this so clearly and openly.

I'm so beyond exhausted in parallel threads where the Apple App Store is held up as some paragon of curation and safety with consumer well being as a first principle.

Guys -- it's an advertising sandbox with stuff surfaced based upon spend and little else.

 

[contacos]

A lot of 3rd party apps do this too with built in tools like CleverTap btw and Apple never cared, that's why I find the whole privacy angle a little shallow when they don't put a stop to certain SDKs.

When I worked at a car park company, which also provides a parking app, I could track basically anything from the integrated CleverTap dashboard. In fact, once a user had registered with their email address (which often includes names) I could see everything they tapped on the app or where they parked and when.

Pretty sure dating apps do the same thing to name one shady category (Gr"***r)

 

[MrSnirf]

Don't think that's totally fair. Obviously they're interested in knowing what you search for on the App Store, in as much detail as possible. But if they truly wanted to know everything about you, they wouldn't come up with technologies like iCloud Private Relay or iCloud's Advanced Data Protection. Both of them actively prevent not just other parties, but even Apple themselves to know everything about you.

https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/law-enforcement-guidelines-us.pdf

About iCloud Private Relay - Apple Support

iCloud Private Relay — part of an iCloud+ subscription — helps protect your privacy when you browse the web in Safari.

support.apple.com

iCloud data security overview - Apple Support

iCloud uses strong security methods, employs strict policies to protect your information, and leads the industry in using privacy-preserving security technologies like end-to-end encryption for your data.

support.apple.com

The existence of Private Relay and Advanced Data Protection doesn't mean Apple isn't interested in collecting user data. It means Apple has decided there are some categories of data it doesn't need and others that are extremely valuable to its business. Private Relay protects Safari browsing activity from network operators and advertisers, but it doesn't prevent Apple from collecting data inside Apple's own services for the purposed of advertising.

Apple often presents privacy as limiting data collection, but in practice Apple's privacy philosophy is frequently about limiting third-party access to user data while still allowing extensive first-party data collection within Apple's own services.

 

[FatLouie]

So many valid points, but ultimately, if a company touts 'privacy' then they should live that mantra. As mentioned previously, you can't have privacy and ads at the same time. It doesn't work that way.

The App Store is a mess. I avoid it as much as possible. Full of old, useless apps that should be moved to a 'legacy' area. Some of the apps have versions that have not been updated in years.