Apple refusing to upgrade my Batman 4 movie collection

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by Citizen Cook, Jul 2, 2019.

  1. Citizen Cook macrumors member

    Citizen Cook

    Joined:
    May 29, 2017
    #1
    Back in april I purchased the 4 move Batman collection, these included the movies Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Forever, and Batman & Robin.
    Last month they were taken down from iTunes and replaced with the new 4K scans.

    Apple has upgraded the first movie in the series, BATMAN, but not the other 3 movies for me.
    When I queried this i was told that because Batman Returns, Batman Forever, and Batman & Robin had been ‘modified’ and were no longer the same versions as the ones i bought i was not eligible for the upgrade.

    I know this is not true, however. BATMAN has received a new sound mix by Warner Brothers (not available on iTunes for some reason but this is a separate issue) but the other movies have only received a new 4K scan and should be eligible for upgrade.

    Here is a copy of the email apple sent me:

    Hello Citizen,

    As we discussed, Movie Bundle "Batman: The Motion Picture Anthology” with four movies including : Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Forever and Batman & Robin is no no longer available for sale in UK Movie Store, though it is for re download if a customer has already purchased it. It is not available in 4K. The Batman movie is the only one available for upgrade in 4K.

    Not all content, especially if no longer for sale on the store, has been offered in 4K. Customers will always automatically get the highest quality that is offered and that their equipment can support. There is no need to upgrade, technically. It is delivered whenever possible.

    Here is the exact verbatim that was provided by our Support Engineers.

    Kind regards,

    Erika
    Apple
     
  2. vertical smile macrumors 68040

    vertical smile

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    #2
    It sucks when they do stuff like this. I bet that it will eventually be upgraded to 4K, but who knows?

    After having my own technical issues with the iTunes Store, then getting a response from the Apple engineers that made no sense at all and my issue not resolved, I stopped all purchases with the iTunes Store, other than apps.

    I decided to go back to buying physical media, and encoding it to Plex to view, as I do not have a DVD nor Bluray player in my home.
     
  3. BJMRamage macrumors 68020

    BJMRamage

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    #3
    this is the STUDIO issue.

    The studios decide to either upgrade a movie on file with iTunes -OR- create a new listing in iTunes.

    I bought the Aliens set a while back and those no longer appear within a Siri search, I have to manually scroll through my purchases to find them. This also happens at times with Disney...they decide they want a NEW version of a movie that will have 4K and boom, my previously purchased copy cannot be found on iTunes or in a search, or via Siri. I can find it within Purchases but to the average person (and kid) if they try to find easily via the "cloud" it will seem like i do not 'own' the movie and would need to purchase it again.

    It is a pain in the @$$ and makes me want to buy less. BUT, that could also be the studio's intent. "tired of seeing us pull your 'purchased' movie for no reason...all you need to do is subscribe to our Studio Streaming Channel on a monthly basis and you'll have access to any and all upgraded titles"
     
  4. Citizen Cook thread starter macrumors member

    Citizen Cook

    Joined:
    May 29, 2017
    #4
    This really makes me want to spit.

    ————————————

    Apple Event, Sept 12, 2017. Eddy Cue (0:45:14): “Now to experience 4K with HDR, you also need great content. And we’ve been working with the large Hollywood studios to bring all of their 4K and HDR movie titles to iTunes. So now you’ll have the biggest releases in the best picture quality all on iTunes, all available for the same price as HD. And if you bought one of those movies in HD from iTunes, we’re going to automatically upgrade them to 4K HDR at no additional charge.”

    ———————————-

    This was one of the main reasons i decided to invest in iTunes movies and build a collection with apple.
     
  5. BODYBUILDERPAUL macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    #5
    Sadly this is a studio issue and not a fault of Apple. As is made clear, we are buying the HD version of a film and we the incredible luxury of viewing it on our iPhone, MacBook, Apple TV and anywhere in the world with our Apple I.D. We then get upgraded to 4K FREE OF CHARGE if the studio allows. FREE - NO CHARGE!!!!!!!!!!! It's not Apple's fault if the studio's won't give 4K for free. In the USA Moonlight is 4K HDR but the UK distributor told me in an Email that they have no intention of providing Apple / iTunes with a 4K HDR version for the UK market!

    IF we've originally bought a film in HD, it's a bit wrong or greedy to bitch that it doesn't get upgraded for free. It's making humans rather obese in my opinion when people are now expecting things for free and personally, I don't like it.

    Yes it's lovely if our HD purchase suddenly becomes a 4K Dolby Vision version but we really should not expect this to happen.

    If you want to know bad, just try reading AMAZON streaming purchases small print. They are NOT liable for ANYTHING!!!!!! It makes Apple seem Godlike in comparison!

    I gave away a load of old DVDs that were crap, being honest and they didn't become BluRay discs or 4K BluRay discs over night :) It's very nice of Apple to 'give' 4K version of HD film when you compare then to horrible, jumpy, plastic DVD - YUKKKKKKK - just the thought of those players with cheap disc trays, 50+ buttons on plastic remote controls - oh gosh, so 1990s!

    Certainly, people can buy a disc but personally, I really don't intend to rewind back to the last century for that horrible rubbish!
     
  6. kiranmk2 macrumors 6502a

    kiranmk2

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    #6
    Well then, I don't think Eddie Cue should have made that statement on stage. Note he says 'we' will upgrade your films to 4k implying that Apple should be stepping up and sorting this out rather than blaming the studio. This is passing the buck and I'm sure the studio would play ball if Apple refused to sell films where studios pulled this trick.
     
  7. Citizen Cook thread starter macrumors member

    Citizen Cook

    Joined:
    May 29, 2017
    #7
    Exactly.

    “And if you bought one of those movies in HD from iTunes, we’re going to automatically upgrade them to 4K HDR at no additional charge.”

    Apple never said they would ‘selective’ movies at no additional cost. There were no caveats.
    It was wildly publicised at the time by a number or media outlets worldwide. It was a big reason many people felt comfortable going with Apple for their movies purchases to begin with.

    This wasn’t apple doing us a favour, this was a PROMISE, a contract between them and us. This was about offering a fantastic service.

    Now we find them pulling dirty tricks, a lowdown bait&switch.
    I always thought apple was an honourable sort of company that valued their loyal customers.
    Now. See that we’re all just chumps in their eyes, a commodity to be exploited :(
     
  8. BODYBUILDERPAUL macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    #8
    I agree - partly that was his excitement/enthusiasm at the presentation however, it was made clear on all website reviews of this that updates would be made to 4K 'when' they become available. It was damn decent of Apple to have actually pulled off something like this wasn't it! Remember, know one else succeeded in doing that before that. Google? Amazon? SONY? LG? Samsung? No.
    Also remember, this is business and business is in reality, is damn nasty. Just because Apple makes a beautiful deal with these companies does not guarantee that the deal will last especially when companies are sold - Fox being bought by Disney for example.

    How I regard this is simple. I'm buying a HD film for a great price from iTunes which is far superior to buying from Amazon or Google. BluRay to me is last decade and DVD in the UK doesn't play at the correct speed - it's speeded up to +4% in order to allow a weird 25fps for the old 1950s CRT TVs of the olden days.
    If it gets upgraded to 4K Dolby Vision, then that's incredible but I don't expect it to - and sadly as I love independent film, none ever do :)
    --- Post Merged, Jul 2, 2019 ---
    You're wrong. Apple did not say that they would offer everything in 4K. They said that your collection would get upgraded to 4k 'when' it becomes available.
    It's really out of their control. Please see this. It's the greedy old men at the Hollywood studios that are doing this. They are old school and they 'sell' to Apple and all of the other platforms. These are the people that wanted YOU in your lifetime to buy your film on Betamax then Video 2000 then VHS then Video8 then DVD then BluRay then 4K BluRay. Can you see the pattern?
    It was Apple who were thinking differently!!! And guess what, these old men do not like that!
    If anything, give the team at Apple appreciation for what THEY actually achieved. It was them that tried to change the landscape for the future!
    --- Post Merged, Jul 2, 2019 ---
    You're wrong. Apple did not say that they would offer everything in 4K. They said that your collection would get upgraded to 4k 'when' it becomes available.
    It's really out of their control. Please see this. It's the greedy old men at the Hollywood studios that are doing this. They are old school and they 'sell' to Apple and all of the other platforms. These are the people that wanted YOU in your lifetime to buy your film on Betamax then Video 2000 then VHS then Video8 then DVD then BluRay then 4K BluRay. Can you see the pattern?
    It was Apple who were thinking differently!!! And guess what, these old men do not like that!
    If anything, give the team at Apple appreciation for what THEY actually achieved. It was them that tried to change the landscape for the future!
     
  9. BODYBUILDERPAUL, Jul 2, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019

    BODYBUILDERPAUL macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    #9
    Might be worth dropping Warner Bros an Email with regards to this. It seems as though they are releasing 'new' variants of the file as there is a 'new' 4 pack which all have 4K DV & Atmos sound.
    It does happen - I own films (The Holiday being an example where Apple is now selling an updated/modified file - same cover art etc but instead of download, it now shows the price etc).

    Most importantly, as you bought the films in April, that is less than 12 weeks ago. Simply ask Apple for a refund due to the fact that you are unsatisfied with the outcome / reply from Erika.

    You can then buy from iTunes the updated / new 4 movie collection that are all in 4K Dolby Vision with Dolby Atmos.

    The very best of luck with everything and the chances are that Apple will honour the refund. Hopefully, Hollywood might be more honest in the future too (yeah right).
     
  10. steve23094 macrumors 68030

    steve23094

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    #10
    You might want to wait. I bought a Spider-Man 3 movie HD bundle a while back. 1 and 3 got 4K upgrades and 2 didn’t. I was pretty annoyed. Nevertheless when 2 (4K) went on sale the next time I bought it as a stand-alone. Lo and behold a few months after I purchased the ‘new’ 4K Spider-Man 2 the version from my original bundle got upgraded too. Cue further annoyance.
     
  11. RomanEmpire macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    Location:
    Vienna
    #11
    September 14th 2019 sees the release of the batman 4-movie collection in 4K (on Blu-ray).
    It might be worth to check again once the bundle has been released.
    Just FYI
     
  12. Tech198 macrumors G5

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Location:
    Australia, Perth
    #12
    Apple does the same thing with re-releases in general.. They vanish from the store. You know all too well you buy something, then tomorrow, its gone.. When you inquire about it, the same movie was re-released and therefore *not the same one purchased*

    I reckon this is a deliberate ploy, (and non-4K upgrade) by content creates to make more money from us suckers.
     
  13. BODYBUILDERPAUL macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    #13
    Simply ask for a full refund. And then buy the new version.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 3, 2019 ---
    It's already been release in iTunes. All 4 are 4K Dolby Vision with Atmos! Price is £25.
     
  14. RomanEmpire macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    Location:
    Vienna
    #14
    I am aware of that. As far as I know, Apple sometimes changes specifications of movies whenever the Blu-ray is released
     
  15. GizmoDVD macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2008
    Location:
    SoCal
    #15
    Disney does this. I have the original Cinderella animated release and it no longer shows in iTunes with the "new" listing.

    But I still own it in my purchases. Just a different SKU.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 3, 2019 ---
    And remember - this is a free thing to get the 4k "upgrade". Apple has stated you are simply purchasing the 1080p version and getting the ability to watch the 4k for "free" while offered, You did not buy the 4k release. You do not get the ability to download the 4k version.
     
  16. WebHead, Jul 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019

    WebHead macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2004
    #16
    Incorrect, you own the 4K version even if you can’t download it. 4K is shown at the point of purchase. I assume the lack of downloading ability was to get the studios on board with the free upgrades.

    Edit: Actually another reason could be the sheer size of the downloads - they weigh in at 25-30GB which would quickly fill up an iDevice.
     
  17. BODYBUILDERPAUL, Jul 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019

    BODYBUILDERPAUL macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    #17
    All to do with studios copyright. That's why you can't download the 4K file - it wold end up as couples Torrent files :) Also, a 4K DV iTunes file would probably be a nightmare to stream via HomeSharing. It would stop and start endlessly for many - 1080p iTunes HomeSharing is a total hit & miss for me over the last 8 years. I hate it!
    Also Apple sees the future in streaming big files and offering a very very decent 1080p to download & keep for travelling on your iPad Pro or iPhone :)

    Not sure that I agree with you regarding point of purchase. I buy my iTunes from my Mac and when you see the price to buy or rent, it's clearly stated available in higher quality or available in standard definition. The 'higher quality' is a very clever term. In the ever changing field of digital and streaming, it's just better to live in the moment and enjoy the film!
     
  18. Coconutcreampie Suspended

    Coconutcreampie

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2016
    Location:
    NY America
    #18
    Buy Blu-Ray discs and you never have to worry about such nonsense! Much better quality too.
     
  19. eltoslightfoot macrumors 6502a

    eltoslightfoot

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    #19
    This.
     
  20. BODYBUILDERPAUL macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    #20
    You're funny. Not quite sure how you play a blurray disc on an iPad Pro or MacBook Pro or iPhone. It's all about multiplatform in this decade.
    Maybe disc suits you but to me, they are very 1990 or 1980!
    Many great titles are not even available on BluRay now so it really is not a good argument along with the really nasty, cheap & poorly made disc players out there.
     
  21. Coconutcreampie Suspended

    Coconutcreampie

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2016
    Location:
    NY America
    #21
    I also have all my discs ripped to same quality MKV for backup and easy and fast access. Being disabled and having to constantly get up to insert discs is simply too much for me. Besides, I also get to then bypass the forced menus and content I've already seen before over and over and over again and the access is fast and easy.

    I've also given up on using Apple's always bud ridden Home Sharing for watching my local content in best quality. I would have also had to encoded the MKVs to Apple support video, which simply would have taken too long. Instead I have a smaller collection encoded at 720p to occasionally stream to my iPad. Home Sharing and streaming to my iPad has always been a headache, especially since Apple got rid of the simple Videos app.

    For the MKVs of my collection I simply have them store on a huge drive connected to my Blu-Ray player. I get 100% reliability from that simple setup, unlike Home Sharing and iTunes.

    And no, I don’t illegally share my files. In fact, I don’t even let anyone touch my discs. Here in America it is at best a gray area in favor for copying to MKV for personal owner's use. I see nothing ethically wrong with it, unlike the theft of illegally downloading content and sharing it.

    The only video content I own from Apple is the Paranormal Witness TV series, which has never been released to disc, sadly.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 5, 2019 ---
    Easy, you rip it and encode it. From there you can stream at home through Home Sharing or upload it to your device for say when traveling.

    Discs are 1990 or 1980? I was an adult back then and such HD quality didn’t exist back then :) Those discs also deliver significantly better quality than your streaming equivalent!

    Not everything is available to stream either! There are also plenty of good and reliable players out there. I own two Panasonics that were cheap and have been extremely reliable and have never failed to read any disc!
     
  22. Citizen Cook, Jul 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019

    Citizen Cook thread starter macrumors member

    Citizen Cook

    Joined:
    May 29, 2017
    #22
    I got back on the phone and spoke with a different representative (Katherine) before reading your comment.
    She told me at the movies are considered ‘new’ because Warners are listing them as new but could not tell me why they were considered ‘new’ even though they are 4K scans and not directors cuts or anything like that. None of the films have new scenes or improved effects etc...

    I did ask for a refund so that i could put that money toward the ‘new’ set. I even explained that I haven’t even viewed those movies yet. I bought them in April with the intention of watching them in June once they had been upgraded.
    I have to wait until she calls me back on Sunday with answer.
    Is there a time limit or 12 weeks or something with Apple then when I can expect a refund?
    --- Post Merged, Jul 5, 2019 ---
    It’s the inconsistency that really grates.

    Why did they update Batman, but not the other 3 movies. It was Batman that was supposed to have had the new sound mix, the others haven’t received a new mix yet they are the ones that haven’t been upgraded.
    And Batman hasn’t even received the new sound mix anyway! Why not? Again, the apple lady couldn’t provide an answer.
    Apple cannot provide an answer. And when i talk to them it’s like they are robots incapable from deviating from the script.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 5, 2019 ---
    Good idea. Especially in light of what bodybuilder paul had to say.
     
  23. steve23094 macrumors 68030

    steve23094

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    #23
    Yeah. I hear ya. I paid £5 for what was effectively new cover art.

    Unfortunately the average customer rep is not going to know the answer to the question you posed. You would have to go quite far down the rabbit hole to get the real answer. It’s going to take somebody to minutely compare these ‘different’ releases to see if there really are any alterations. That ain’t gonna be me.

    I think that ultimately Apple is enforcing the whims of the studios, and they have been nickel and diming us for years. Always refusing to embrace new formats and doing their best to enforce protectionist policies. You would think they would have learnt by now, they’re always behind the curve and struggling to catch up. People will always find a way. Studios should be brave and move to the front foot.
     
  24. cube macrumors P6

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    #24
    No, it's not. I don't care about watching a movie on a small screen.
     
  25. eltoslightfoot macrumors 6502a

    eltoslightfoot

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    #25
    I do the same. I rip to MKV then use Plex (for now) to share inside my LAN. I have disabled all WAN access and do not share either. My system works.
     

Share This Page

40 July 2, 2019