i'm finding this price a wee bit too steep. how is this really competitive to the other laptop makers? Apple really needs to not go on this over price deal if they want to make windows users switch.
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Apple Releases 17'' MacBook Pro
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Processor Is Soldered On Due To Space Limitations
They will. They do. And they did. It is soldered on due to space limitations.milo said:
BRLawyer said:
I think that's exactly what some people want. What's wrong with offering a laptop that sacrifices features (no optical drive), even performance, for the smallest possible size? Obviously you're fine with sacrificing performance for size in the 17, why not apply the same standard to an ultramini?
Multimedia said:Apple had nothing to do with the FW800 standard other than being a member of the group that decided it. There are technical reasons the connector needs to be completely different to achieve the 2x higher transfer speed.
Apple did not "botch" much. FW800 devices have caught on big time among pro video and photo folks who deal with huge file sizes. It is not over and it is not dead. FW800 is not "a failure as a format". Apple engineering did "botch" not including a FW800 port on the 15" MBP big time.
OK, so apple played a part in the group that botched the 800 standard.
If it wasn't possible to up the speeds in that connector, then I guess they botched it the first time around - when they were designing 400 they should have planned for future expandability and compatibility.
Sure, 800 is still used as a niché product. I guess I'll amend to say it's a failure as a *mainstream* format. It had the potential to catch on as a widespread, mainstream format included across the board on macs and pc's, but they blew it by not making it seamlessly compatible with the original FW400 (which was pretty successful).
Just for the record, I consider DAT and minidisc failures as well for the same reason (intended for mainstream use, only survived as a niche product).
Multimedia said:
Really? So where's the Apple documentation of which macs are soldered and which socketed? And was the info released at product announcement or weeks later?
jlewis2k1 said:
You can find out how it's competitive by pricing out a PC laptop with the same specs. Or look earlier in the thread where people have done it already. To sum up, there are a couple models that are a bit cheaper, but still missing features from the MBP. And there are quite a few that are about the same or more expensive. This is probably the most competitive model Apple has released so far.
Why are there over 200 negatives on this story?
Or are they from embittered MacBook Pro 15" owners who want an extra USB port and a Firewire 800 port?
Or are they from embittered MacBook Pro 15" owners who want an extra USB port and a Firewire 800 port?
The FX60 runs at 2.6GHz.SPUY767 said:
The FX62 is out in a month and that's 2.8GHz.
The top end processor in any product range always has a stupid price.
dferrara said:Kind of snore, but at least it's finally here! One more USB port for all the yuppies who wanted more, and we still get FireWire 800.
It's a major snore, that should have been released a month ago (most 8x rated media doesn't really write much faster than 4x for the drives Apple uses, little unknown facts of hype), didn't really need the 8x drive, so it took them that much longer to secure a 3rd party chip to retain FW800? Crap, not much innovation on Apple's part these days, more following the pack rather than leading, where's FW1600, 3200? Guess we're limited to Express Card interface then.
3USB ports, WTF couldn't they just left well enough alone--- scratch that lame 3rd USB, and put back the Effn modem INSIDE the system. Add on USB 56k modem for that 3rd port, lol, for the top of the line pro laptop, ridiculous!
Why don't they even have more useful option like a 2k resolution screen (yeah, I have bad eyesight, but when I need to read text, I just click on the display pref icon I have in the menu bar, go to the next lower resolution...the MBP 17in needs a true HD screen, badly. Oh they put a brighter screen, of the same resolution as before in there...boring.
Boring announcement, wait for Merom at WWDC or Paris Expo; along with HD burner, screen. No built-in 56km modem, incredibly arrogant elitist techdweebs at Apple, very short sighted cheapness...and quite typical of Apple. Everyone, everywhere--- all globetrotting pros around the world always have easy access to wireless/broadband internet...only in Stevo-0's reality distortion field. Oh wait, when MBP/Merom is annouced, you can order an add on USB2.0 HD Blu-Ray burner...stuff all of these 'add' on USB devices into your dunggy cargo pants pockets, cause you know there is no room in your pro equip. cases already filled w/'real' tools, lol (won't fit into your pocketless Steve-0 turtleneck, or jeans pockets...)w00t!
Oh crap, I just lost that tiny USB 'add on' modem, guess I can't connect when I really wanted/needed to...damn those bean counter, cheap arse elitist Apple snobs. Same can be said about the hard drive options, this is the TOTL MBP, and while though they don't have it for the Mini, Apple has already stated in reference to that, there are currently 160GB drives (Seagate is the 1st to ship with perp recording tech, in their 5.4k laptop drive, and has said they will do so with 7.2k laptop drives later...maybe this year, so what's up with Apple not even offering this as a option?) Guess I should have had at least one or 2 extra USB modem in multiple pockets then
Hattig said:
Damn, I was hoping that dropping the AMD bomb would draw better flames.
I thought that sounded a little low. I got it from a PDF from AMD itself, so someone needs to to a bit better checking of their press releases.
Yeah, the 675$ is in quantities of 1000. Retail is somethig like 1100$ I think. Granted the FX is a scalar monster, but then again, so is the G5, and I can get two of those at a comparable speed with a computer attached for just a little more than these processors alone! Crazy pricing.
15" MacBook SemiPro
I said that last January when I called the 15" MacBook a MacBook SemiPro because of the lack of either FW800 or eSATA. The lack of a DL DVD burner would mean that giving the 15" model a SemiPro rating may be too high. Maybe it should have been called a MacBook SemiSemiPro.
Some ansered by saying that FW800 was dead. That it had been replaced by SATA. If so whereare the eSATA port(s) for the Pro User?
The new 17" Intel Mac Pro, may just be able to be classified as a Pro model. Now for the software to catch up with the hardware. This is generally the problem. With a major change like this, it will take longer for the software to catch up. In the mean time, the 17" may be a Pro model, but unable to do Pro work for all of the Pro User's that would like to use one.
Bill the TaxMan
mlrproducts said:
I said that last January when I called the 15" MacBook a MacBook SemiPro because of the lack of either FW800 or eSATA. The lack of a DL DVD burner would mean that giving the 15" model a SemiPro rating may be too high. Maybe it should have been called a MacBook SemiSemiPro.
Some ansered by saying that FW800 was dead. That it had been replaced by SATA. If so whereare the eSATA port(s) for the Pro User?
The new 17" Intel Mac Pro, may just be able to be classified as a Pro model. Now for the software to catch up with the hardware. This is generally the problem. With a major change like this, it will take longer for the software to catch up. In the mean time, the 17" may be a Pro model, but unable to do Pro work for all of the Pro User's that would like to use one.
Bill the TaxMan
Student Pricing
I don't know if someone else already addressed this, but at least in the Arden Fair Mall Store if you bring your student ID and show the manager he'll still give you the student discount in the store. Just a thought.
artifex said:So if your office is buying a few, volunteer to be the guy who gets a cheap return flight to New York to buy them, and bring them back
Here in the states, I've considered flying to Portland, Oregon, several times for my next Mac, because there's no sales tax there, and, well, I used to live there and I miss it
I don't know if someone else already addressed this, but at least in the Arden Fair Mall Store if you bring your student ID and show the manager he'll still give you the student discount in the store. Just a thought.
SPUY767 said:
Guys, I'd just like to give u some hints bout these amds... My uncle builds and sells pro hardware here in Italy, and we're often up to assembling workstation. Guess what, we just finished 2 based on amd athlon x2 4200+ cpus (2.2Ghz). These babies were packed with 2gb ram, 300 gb sata discs and a quadro 540. Now, we use a specific render in cinema4d as a standard to compare processor speeds.
To my 3ghz 925x pentium4with4gbddr2 it will take 29.10 minutes to complete it. My dad's inspiron 9400, 1.83ghz core duo with 512 Mb ram (sigh) stops at 18.04. Now I expected amds to do much better than this. It took them 21.05.
Think people think...
Now, athlon fxs are probably the fastest procs on the market, but I bet we can expect great things from intel if this is just the start...
Awaiting for core duo mb and woodcrest powermac
(wish my 12" pb didn't die last year )No modems!
Steve Jobs beliefs that he always knows when to get rid of an item from a computer. He got rid of the floppy drive when he formed his Next Computer. The floppy had many more good usefule years in it. For many students or low resource requiremnt users the floppy still may be useful. I stopped using floppies in general a couple of years before Steve Jobs came out with the flppyless iMac. But I still have an USB floppy around for those times that I need one. It would be nice to have the option in some Macs.
The modem is a thing that is needed by those that do not use broadband and/or have a need to send/receive fases. For me there is still a great need for an internal modem. I liked my older TiPowerBook, but it lacked FW800, USB2 & 802.11g. Each item could be corrected with a PC Card, but only one at a time. And that meant many added cards. With USB2 needed for the 5thGen iPod, even Apple would require me to carry a card. A built-in modem is needed at least as much as any ot those. Those first 3 reasons is why I got my 17" 1.67 GHz G4. It is nice having everything in on box.
I would think that most that carry there PowerBooks on the road would prefer to have everything in one package. Add-ons get lost, left at home, office, motel or business meeting. Having several older serial fax modems, I'll carry one of those when the day comes that I must trade-in my 17" G4 PowerBook for one of these modemless Intel MacBook (Semi)Pro models. The lack of a modem will extend this time.
Bill the TaxMan
Butthead said:It's a major snore, that should have been released a month ago (most 8x rated media doesn't really write much faster than 4x for the drives Apple uses, little unknown facts of hype), didn't really need the 8x drive, so it took them that much longer to secure a 3rd party chip to retain FW800? Crap, not much innovation on Apple's part these days, more following the pack rather than leading, where's FW1600, 3200? Guess we're limited to Express Card interface then.
3USB ports, WTF couldn't they just left well enough alone--- scratch that lame 3rd USB, and put back the Effn modem INSIDE the system. Add on USB 56k modem for that 3rd port, lol, for the top of the line pro laptop, ridiculous!
Why don't they even have more useful option like a 2k resolution screen (yeah, I have bad eyesight, but when I need to read text, I just click on the display pref icon I have in the menu bar, go to the next lower resolution...the MBP 17in needs a true HD screen, badly. Oh they put a brighter screen, of the same resolution as before in there...boring.
Boring announcement, wait for Merom at WWDC or Paris Expo; along with HD burner, screen. No built-in 56km modem, incredibly arrogant elitist techdweebs at Apple, very short sighted cheapness...and quite typical of Apple. Everyone, everywhere--- all globetrotting pros around the world always have easy access to wireless/broadband internet...only in Stevo-0's reality distortion field. Oh wait, when MBP/Merom is annouced, you can order an add on USB2.0 HD Blu-Ray burner...stuff all of these 'add' on USB devices into your dunggy cargo pants pockets, cause you know there is no room in your pro equip. cases already filled w/'real' tools, lol (won't fit into your pocketless Steve-0 turtleneck, or jeans pockets...)w00t!
Oh crap, I just lost that tiny USB 'add on' modem, guess I can't connect when I really wanted/needed to...damn those bean counter, cheap arse elitist Apple snobs. Same can be said about the hard drive options, this is the TOTL MBP, and while though they don't have it for the Mini, Apple has already stated in reference to that, there are currently 160GB drives (Seagate is the 1st to ship with perp recording tech, in their 5.4k laptop drive, and has said they will do so with 7.2k laptop drives later...maybe this year, so what's up with Apple not even offering this as a option?) Guess I should have had at least one or 2 extra USB modem in multiple pockets then
Steve Jobs beliefs that he always knows when to get rid of an item from a computer. He got rid of the floppy drive when he formed his Next Computer. The floppy had many more good usefule years in it. For many students or low resource requiremnt users the floppy still may be useful. I stopped using floppies in general a couple of years before Steve Jobs came out with the flppyless iMac. But I still have an USB floppy around for those times that I need one. It would be nice to have the option in some Macs.
The modem is a thing that is needed by those that do not use broadband and/or have a need to send/receive fases. For me there is still a great need for an internal modem. I liked my older TiPowerBook, but it lacked FW800, USB2 & 802.11g. Each item could be corrected with a PC Card, but only one at a time. And that meant many added cards. With USB2 needed for the 5thGen iPod, even Apple would require me to carry a card. A built-in modem is needed at least as much as any ot those. Those first 3 reasons is why I got my 17" 1.67 GHz G4. It is nice having everything in on box.
I would think that most that carry there PowerBooks on the road would prefer to have everything in one package. Add-ons get lost, left at home, office, motel or business meeting. Having several older serial fax modems, I'll carry one of those when the day comes that I must trade-in my 17" G4 PowerBook for one of these modemless Intel MacBook (Semi)Pro models. The lack of a modem will extend this time.
Bill the TaxMan
Faster MBP Advantage of Ordering Two 512 Sticks B4 Ordering Two 1GB Sticks From Omni
In reading through the new 37 page April 2006 17" MBP Technology Overview White Paper - downloadable from the Apple Site, they say that when you have two of the same size ram sticks in the MBP it runs faster than if you only have one, taking advantage of the system's Dual Channel Architecture. So not only do you initially save $100 off the price of a single 1 GB stick configuration, you get more speed than you would have while waiting for your Omni pair of 1 GB sticks to replace the two 512 sticks for only $46 more than the SLOWER single stick stock config - total $146. So you save money and get a faster MBP to begin with. It's a miracle.Multimedia said:
Multimedia said:In reading through the 17" White Paper - downloadable from the Apple Site, they say that when you have two of the same ram sticks in the MBP it runs faster than if you only have one, taking advantage of the system's Dual Channel Architecture. So not only do you initially save $100 off the price of a single 1 GB stick, you get more speed than you would have while waiting for your Omni pair of 1 GB sticks to replace the two 512 sticks for only $46 more than the single stick stock config - total $146. So you save money and get a faster MBP to begin with. It's a miracle.
Guys i dunno bout omnitechs ram modules, but the enclosures they sell their drives in are generic Hamlet aluminium external boxes... with an omnitech sticker on their front... that doesn't look very serious to me...
An observation and a question.
The observation:
In an English class yesterday (American Modern Experimental Fiction, because I'm an artfag, I guess), a couple of people whipped out 15" Powerbooks. Only one of them wasn't a powerbook. It was the 15" MBP. I'd not yet seen one in person, and I'd been complaining that they looked pretty ugly. I still think the new clasp/closure-gizmo, the IR sensor, and the isight are pretty ugly...but they're much less glaring than they seem in pictures. So I revoke any of my criticisms of the MBPs in terms of style. They look almost exactly like powerbooks, and their few unsightly features don't do them any harm, really.
The question:
The 17" MBP solves all of the complaints I had about the 15" one. I certainly don't need 17" of screen, but no complaints there. It seems more or less ideal to me. And as this old Tibook gets older and older, the prospects of a new MBP are looking better and better. The problem is that I'm poor as hell. So when can we expect a second revision of the MBPs? I don't mean form-factor-wise; that's fine. But things I'd like to see (maybe) would be Merom, Leopard, and some more natively running programs (photoshop, office *cringe*, etc.). Ideally I'd be able to get a new computer before next school year - september this year? Will we see any of those new things before then?
The observation:
In an English class yesterday (American Modern Experimental Fiction, because I'm an artfag, I guess), a couple of people whipped out 15" Powerbooks. Only one of them wasn't a powerbook. It was the 15" MBP. I'd not yet seen one in person, and I'd been complaining that they looked pretty ugly. I still think the new clasp/closure-gizmo, the IR sensor, and the isight are pretty ugly...but they're much less glaring than they seem in pictures. So I revoke any of my criticisms of the MBPs in terms of style. They look almost exactly like powerbooks, and their few unsightly features don't do them any harm, really.
The question:
The 17" MBP solves all of the complaints I had about the 15" one. I certainly don't need 17" of screen, but no complaints there. It seems more or less ideal to me. And as this old Tibook gets older and older, the prospects of a new MBP are looking better and better. The problem is that I'm poor as hell. So when can we expect a second revision of the MBPs? I don't mean form-factor-wise; that's fine. But things I'd like to see (maybe) would be Merom, Leopard, and some more natively running programs (photoshop, office *cringe*, etc.). Ideally I'd be able to get a new computer before next school year - september this year? Will we see any of those new things before then?
Don't Have A Cow Milo
Please try to stop being so negative Milo. What are you so angry about? Take a chill pill man.
It's no big deal they didn't trumpet to the world that the MBP line doesn't use sockets. When they come up with the next version with a processor you like, just sell this one and buy the next. Will hardly cost you much difference than what it would cost you to buy the newer processor.
Apple doesn't need to "announce nor prove" which products have sockets and which don't. They tell you at the NAB booth and at any Apple store or on the phone with a sales consultant. Anyone with half a brain can see by the low profile that there is not room for a socket inside the MBP line. It's not that Apple is trying to hide anything that will keep you from being able to upgrade the processor later. It's simply that they don't have room for the socket while they do have room in the mini and iMac which you will be able to upgrade albiet void your warranty and Applecare coverage.milo said:
Please try to stop being so negative Milo. What are you so angry about?
Take a chill pill man.It's no big deal they didn't trumpet to the world that the MBP line doesn't use sockets. When they come up with the next version with a processor you like, just sell this one and buy the next. Will hardly cost you much difference than what it would cost you to buy the newer processor.
Merom this Fall. Leopard next Winter, Adobe CS3 next Spring, Office Who Knows?
Leopard next Winter perhaps announced in the January 9 SteveNote at MWSF, Adobe CS3 next Spring, Office Who Knows? I think Office probably runs just fine under Rosetta. Still waiting for someone to report on how slowly Photoshop can reduce image file sizes for web and video grahics with ImageReady under Rosetta. Seeing as how it is almost instantaneous under PPC, seems likely to be fast enough under Rosetta.
Merom this Fall perhaps announced at the Paris Apple Expo September 12. Remember that Steve used that venu in September of 2003 to introduce the Aluminum 15" PowerBook G4. But I read another report today that says Merom won't really be ready until "The Holiday Shopping Season". So if that's true, Apple may just hold off until the January 9, 2007 SF MacWorld Expo SteveNote to unveil Merom MBPs.absurdio said:
Leopard next Winter perhaps announced in the January 9 SteveNote at MWSF, Adobe CS3 next Spring, Office Who Knows? I think Office probably runs just fine under Rosetta. Still waiting for someone to report on how slowly Photoshop can reduce image file sizes for web and video grahics with ImageReady under Rosetta. Seeing as how it is almost instantaneous under PPC, seems likely to be fast enough under Rosetta.
Multimedia said:In reading through the new 37 page April 2006 17" MBP Technology Overview White Paper - downloadable from the Apple Site, they say that when you have two of the same size ram sticks in the MBP it runs faster than if you only have one, taking advantage of the system's Dual Channel Architecture. So not only do you initially save $100 off the price of a single 1 GB stick configuration, you get more speed than you would have while waiting for your Omni pair of 1 GB sticks to replace the two 512 sticks for only $46 more than the SLOWER single stick stock config - total $146. So you save money and get a faster MBP to begin with. It's a miracle.
In the real world, it makes little difference. Barefeats.com shows that it's about 3% increase on the MBP when using two sticks.
Artifex said:
Anyone tried such a thing on a overseas flight? I'm flying to Boston and NYC in two months and am seriously considering buying a MBP in NYC, copy my application folder and document from my iPod to the MPB, and act like it's been mine for months..
It would save me some 250 euros. That's a lot of Big Macs.
why do so many people who don't use FW800 enjoy talking about how obsolete it is?
i USB caught on because it is cheap and good enough. it is not the better standard, but it is cheap enough to use with keybboards and mice and printers, so it get recognized and favored. but FW is a better standard. 400 is better than usb2 for high speed and large transfers. it has a high sustained transfer speed, uses less CPU resources, and delivers more power. for video and audio, it offer isochronus mode, which guarantees even transfer at certain speeds
but USB HAS ITS USES i simply don't want to use it for hard drives and audio interfaces.
i USB caught on because it is cheap and good enough. it is not the better standard, but it is cheap enough to use with keybboards and mice and printers, so it get recognized and favored. but FW is a better standard. 400 is better than usb2 for high speed and large transfers. it has a high sustained transfer speed, uses less CPU resources, and delivers more power. for video and audio, it offer isochronus mode, which guarantees even transfer at certain speeds
but USB HAS ITS USES i simply don't want to use it for hard drives and audio interfaces.