How does your speed limit analogy work when you're copying to/from the laptop's internal 2.5" drive that is 4200rpm or 5400rpm? I'm thinking that the extra bandwidth afforded by the FW800 goes largely unused when a slower than 7200rpm drive is involved.matticus008 said:
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Apple Releases 17'' MacBook Pro
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AidenShaw said:
I absolutely agree, for it to really catch on they should have made it standard on all models across the board. It just would have been that much easier if it used the same connector because they could just start including 800 instead of 400 instead of having to have both ports.
The other challenge involved is getting PC builders to include it as well.
FW800 Was Developed After FW400 And Had To Have A Different Connector
From a PC Builder's point of view, FW400 is "fast enough" just like Windows XP is "good enough". And for the most part they are right. Pros can buy an PCMCIA or Expresscard to add FW800 capability to their mobile PCs. But Mac owners are special so we get in built in.
From that point of view Apple is still doing a lot more to keep FW800 alive than they are helping kill it. I don't know of any PC makers who include the FW800 port on any of their mobile products nor on their desktop motherboards. Do you?
FW800 Was Developed After FW400 And Had To Have A Different Connector. There is an engineering reason for the different connector. It took the 1394 committee years after FW400 was in the marketplace to finalize on the FW800 standard. To whine about "what should have been" is to insult the engineering efforts of hundreds of people over years of time. You are completely out of line to complain about the connector needing to be the same when it could not be. If it could have been the same, I am sure they would have made it that way.milo said:
From a PC Builder's point of view, FW400 is "fast enough" just like Windows XP is "good enough". And for the most part they are right. Pros can buy an PCMCIA or Expresscard to add FW800 capability to their mobile PCs. But Mac owners are special so we get in built in.
From that point of view Apple is still doing a lot more to keep FW800 alive than they are helping kill it. I don't know of any PC makers who include the FW800 port on any of their mobile products nor on their desktop motherboards. Do you?Multimedia said:
I've been through this already. If they didn't allow for future upgradability and compatibility, they dropped the ball when they designed FW400. Both designs were done by the same committee, right? So they have nobody but themselves to blame for lack of compatibility. Sure, there was an engineering reason for the different connector. That reason is that they didn't think ahead when they designed the first generation. You're not seriously saying it's impossible to design a format/connector that allows for the ability to be updated to a faster version years down the road?
If I'm insulting the efforts of people, so be it. People make mistakes, that's how technology works. I don't see why you assume that they're too thin skinned to handle when someone points out mistakes they made. (whining?
)
FireWire 800 is electrically compatible with FireWire 400. The physical connector is different because it has extra pins that are used by the faster connection. All you need to connect a FW400 device to a FW800 controller is a cable that converts from one connector to the other. They are easily available, even Apple Stores sell them, (both FW800-9-pin to FW400-6-pin and 4-pin 'camcorder-style'.) So you can hook up your FW400 external hard drive with a compatible cable. (You need a cable anyway, so it doesn't really matter what's on the 'computer' end from the end-user perspective. Heck, users are used to the two ends being different from USB.)
The only difficulty is when using devices with custom cables, or built-in cables. (The notable one here is the older iPods, FireWire connected with the dock connector.) You can get around this with a simple converter. A small box that is just a physical plug converter. It is a male FW800-9-pin plug with a female FW400-6-pin socket. Apple used to ship similar 6-pin-to-4-pin adapters with their iPods, back when many PCs only had 4-pin FireWire ports. (Most PC notebooks with FireWire still only have the 4-pin ports.) For an iPod, you can just get a dock-to-FireWire adapter that plugs on the bottom of the iPod, then use the 9-pin-to-6-pin cable described above. (Of course, newer iPods are USB-only, so it's moot for them.)
The only difficulty is when using devices with custom cables, or built-in cables. (The notable one here is the older iPods, FireWire connected with the dock connector.) You can get around this with a simple converter. A small box that is just a physical plug converter. It is a male FW800-9-pin plug with a female FW400-6-pin socket. Apple used to ship similar 6-pin-to-4-pin adapters with their iPods, back when many PCs only had 4-pin FireWire ports. (Most PC notebooks with FireWire still only have the 4-pin ports.) For an iPod, you can just get a dock-to-FireWire adapter that plugs on the bottom of the iPod, then use the 9-pin-to-6-pin cable described above. (Of course, newer iPods are USB-only, so it's moot for them.)
Not So Fast
To those who think that the US/UK/EU prices are out of synch, remember that the US prices are before adding state sales taxes (which can in some cases approach 10%). I would think twice before purchasing that plane ticket!
jonharris200 said:
To those who think that the US/UK/EU prices are out of synch, remember that the US prices are before adding state sales taxes (which can in some cases approach 10%). I would think twice before purchasing that plane ticket!
Just a reminder to all the fellow 15" MBP owner's out there, in the next week or so be sure to update your signature (if applicable) to clarify the size of your MBP. Unless of course the 15" is considored the MBP and the 17" will be the only one with clarification, and if a 13.3" one comes out - well, then it'll be like it was with Powerbook's - people writing the size in the signature. It was nice just having to say MBP for the past couple of month's, but now I've revised to read 15" because that's just the kind of person I am, and who knows how much longer until we get to throw a "Rev. A" in there too
banson said:
I wouldn't think twice if you're planning on coming to visit here in Oregon, home of no sales tax. There's one other state I believe that doesn't have sales tax but I can't think of what it is at the moment... I also believe the person who suggested such a trip (or at least one of them) was hinting at visiting Portland, Oregon - and hey, why not? Great city, great Apple Stores, no sales tax, pretty good weather this month - probably even better next month, good little vacation or even weekend getaway! Even a romantic one for you and your significant other so he/she'll let you snag a MBP, or you can snag the MBP as your signifcant other - it's quite a beauty so I wouldn't blame you. That being said, good point regardless. Also, about that panasonic laptop - I'd love one of those from apple! Especially if they could get the price around that of the current 12" PowerBooks (mid-$1500-range). I don't know if I would buy one but it would tempt to considor selling this quite new MBP and mini, in order to buy one alongside a 17" or 20" iMac if the price was that right. Although I saw that it cost 2100-2200 and it may be too steap for a primary computer or a second computer to a relatively-weak mini. It does definitely have a niche market but as for general buyers I don't know if they'd spring for that or a base 1.83 MBP... I really don't know how it would stack up sales wise to apples 13.3" MBP (if ones ever released) or 13.3" MacBook's (whenever they're released, since we know they will sometime soon (although not soon enough for many). It's a grab bag but I'd love one for $500-or-so less (aka $1,500-range).
I'm Jealous
You are so lucky to be from one of those 2 states (I believe that Delaware is the other)... Unfortunately, the majority of us have to pay the taxman .. . Even Apple Online collects every applicable cent (including iTunes).
Plecky said:
You are so lucky to be from one of those 2 states (I believe that Delaware is the other)... Unfortunately, the majority of us have to pay the taxman .. . Even Apple Online collects every applicable cent (including iTunes).
The rotational speed of the hard drive is just one factor in the drive's transfer speed. For drives slower than 7200rpm, it just translates to a lower peak transfer rate, putting it deeper into the "FireWire 800 doesn't matter" camp. Most 7200rpm hard drives can't and won't fill out FW400 for 95% of their storage capacity, so 5400rpm or 4200rpm units definitely won't.LosJackal said:
Note that even with the 2GB/min transfer speeds of the FW800 drives mentioned here (which are indeed quicker than most people's experience), that only translates to roughly 34MB/sec (compared to the 50MB/sec maximum of FW400). So there's no reason that a FW400 connection can't handle those higher speeds (but again, there are some other factors involved with FW800 external hard drive controllers and the drives themselves[due to the fact that they're newer]).
New Hampshire Has No Sales Tax Too
So flying to Boston would be a lot cheaper than flying to Portland OR.
And New Hampshire a short drive north of Boston.macidiot said:
So flying to Boston would be a lot cheaper than flying to Portland OR.shigzeo said:When I bought my ibook 2 years ago, I was quoted about 2-3 days till shipment and then another 12 for delivery. The entire process took less than 7 days. So, I think those dates are a worst case scenario. Further, a friend at work just ordered an ipod nano on Thursday, got it Monday - desite the 2-3 day till shipment message and 12 days for delivery. Be sure that you will get it soon.
Yeah, I'm really curious as to when these are going to ship out. I ordered mine Monday afternoon and my ship date is May 8th. When I called to talk to Apple about an RMA number for something else, I asked they guy when he thought these were going to ship out. He told me they had plenty to go around and would ship out pretty fast... We'll see!
Apple Often Ships Sooner Than They Promise
Apple Often Ships Sooner Than They Promise. I ordered my refurb Quad in early February and they promised it would ship 3 weeks later. In fact it shipped within 24 hours and arrived two days later.ZigFilm said:Yeah, I'm really curious as to when these are going to ship out. I ordered mine Monday afternoon and my ship date is May 8th. When I called to talk to Apple about an RMA number for something else, I asked they guy when he thought these were going to ship out. He told me they had plenty to go around and would ship out pretty fast... We'll see!
Multimedia said:Apple Often Ships Sooner Than They Promise. I ordered my refurb Quad in early February and they promised it would ship 3 weeks later. In fact it shipped within 24 hours and arrived two days later.
True. I remember when apple bumped the original ship dates by about a week. Tons of people freaked out when they got an email with a "ship by" date two or three weeks off...and then got the machines a few days later.
Apple tends to be very conservative with shipping dates for new boxes.
Multimedia said:Apple Often Ships Sooner Than They Promise. I ordered my refurb Quad in early February and they promised it would ship 3 weeks later. In fact it shipped within 24 hours and arrived two days later.
That's good news! It's going to be a brave new world for me when I get this Mac.... Lots to learn! Then again, I had a Powerbook 160.
Congratulations ZigFilm! Please Give Us A Detailed Report When You Get It Going
Congrats ZigFilm. That's quite a leap you're taking. Please Give Us A Detailed Report When You Get It Going. Most interested in how loud the fans are when your cranking it up full bore on heavy multiprocessor tasks.ZigFilm said:That's good news! It's going to be a brave new world for me when I get this Mac.... Lots to learn! Then again, I had a Powerbook 160.