Apple Releases macOS Big Sur 11.6.7 With Mail App Fix

[Cognizant.]

Computers older than about 2017 are not officially supported in Windows 11, so you're not entirely correct.

Yeah, this is the first time Microsoft has done anything like this. Was pretty surprising. Mostly it was for the TPM nonsense. Having said that, it’s still very simple to install Windows 11 on older hardware. Doesn’t require all the same fudging like on Macs, but the patching community has made installing macOS on older hardware pretty simple.

 

[fhall1]

Hmmm...maybe it’s finally time to upgrade from Catalina?

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I used to support commercial clients and yes Microsoft DID occasionally kill or maim third party software. Heck, occasionally they would even do it to their own software! Most of the time, the 'offending companies' were told their software was to blame and they would have to fix it. It seemed only rarely would Microsoft come down from on high and admit their 'fix' broke something, and then release another fix to fix the fix.

It happened, but was rare, and sometimes the errors would be so silly, like this one, not checking to see if the app is already running before trying to open it.

Historically NT4.x was the worst. Fixes that broke prior fixes, and software and utilities that worked on one release, and were broken on later one to be fixed in another update. The best was updates that occasionally broke previously fixed problems, only to be fixed in another update that sometimes broke other things that were fixed. It's like they were using an old code base for each update, and that code base was rarely updated with current patches and updates. It happened. It was so bad that I refused to update clients for months until the stability of the update could be verified and the effects on some of the niche software that was in use by some clients could (hopefully) be determined. We once ran an NT server and would install client software and then update that 'test bed' to see if it would hammer their 'business-critical' software. Not to say that doing that for clients isn't a bad idea just as part of a service to offer clients. It's also great CYA time, before an update is installed and breaks something.

There was an update for Windows Server that, if Exchange was installed, took HOURS AND HOURS to run. One server, the update (described as 'light' by Microsoft') took well over 4 hours, rendering the server unusable until it was completed. A production server, down for literally the entire day? And that was a Microsoft 'light' service pack. Granted, some servers it ran for less time, but WOW!!! Any unaware person that decides to install that update will likely have, at the least, have grill marks on their bottom. At the most? Looking for another employer.

Yeah, Microsoft is Great with updates..

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Hmmm...maybe it’s finally time to upgrade from Catalina?

Nah... I had a client that ran DOS based payroll into the 2000's. If it isn't broken, why fix it...

 

[ResPublica]

Yeah, this is the first time Microsoft has done anything like this. Was pretty surprising. Mostly it was for the TPM nonsense. Having said that, it’s still very simple to install Windows 11 on older hardware. Doesn’t require all the same fudging like on Macs, but the patching community has made installing macOS on older hardware pretty simple.

I did this on an older PC laptop and it indeed works fine. Honestly, Windows 11 feels like a skin they put on Windows 10. And it's way easier to install than Monterey on unsupported Macs (although that is not too difficult either).

My laptop has TPM and SecureBoot, but lacks the correct CPU. However, W11 can run fine without any of these three requirements.

One issue with this solution is that Microsoft might break W11 on unsupported machines one day by issuing one of their large updates.

 

[Cognizant.]

I did this on an older PC laptop and it indeed works fine. Honestly, Windows 11 feels like a skin they put on Windows 10. And it's way easier to install than Monterey on unsupported Macs (although that is not too difficult either).

My laptop has TPM and SecureBoot, but lacks the correct CPU. However, W11 can run fine without any of these three requirements.

One issue with this solution is that Microsoft might break W11 on unsupported machines one day by issuing one of their large updates.

I really like the look of Windows 11. Other than the under the hood improvements, it's mostly a UI overhaul. They're trying to look more Mac-like, which is never a bad thing. Windows 7 is still one of the best looking versions of Windows though, IMO.

 

[FoxyKaye]

It's so weird how Apple's OS often breaks 3rd party software. I never hear about Microsoft's OS doing the same thing.

"DOS ain't done until Lotus won't run."

Which was, of course, decades ago.

 

[ResPublica]

I really like the look of Windows 11. Other than the under the hood improvements, it's mostly a UI overhaul. They're trying to look more Mac-like, which is never a bad thing. Windows 7 is still one of the best looking versions of Windows though, IMO.

I can agree completely, 'Aero' of Vista en 7 was really pretty. And Windows 11 offers some good improvements, especially the new Control Panel. The start menu in the middle is very reminiscent of the Dock in macOS. But all in all W11 is not so different from W10, which makes the new system requirements hard to justify.

 

[iHorseHead]

Nope, Microsoft are worse than Apple. They cut off support for anything older than 8th gen Intel CPUs so most PCs from 2018 are not officially supported. Although it's allegedly easy to just change some values in the registry and update to 11. The limitation is just artificial.

Yes, but before that Microsoft was great. Windows 10 will receive updates for a long time too, while Apple has abandoned High Sierra.
If you bought a computer back in 2007, you can still use it on Windows 10 ( I have a Dell laptop ) while you can't use up to date OS X software on MacBook from 2008.

And yes, I apologise. I was wrong: https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/windows-11-not-supported-on-intel-macs

 

[iHorseHead]

I really like the look of Windows 11. Other than the under the hood improvements, it's mostly a UI overhaul. They're trying to look more Mac-like, which is never a bad thing. Windows 7 is still one of the best looking versions of Windows though, IMO.

I think Vista was the best looking Windows tbh. Wallpapers were so beautiful as well.

 

[DaveMcM76]

I really like the look of Windows 11. Other than the under the hood improvements, it's mostly a UI overhaul. They're trying to look more Mac-like, which is never a bad thing. Windows 7 is still one of the best looking versions of Windows though, IMO.

I have windows 11 on my work laptop and on the whole it's been a lot better than I thought it might, but my main issue is that they absolutely butchered the start menu and task bar removing pretty much all of the useful functionality that was there in windows 10 like grouping pinned items on the start menu, right click jump lists for recent documents on pinned start menu icons, pinning folders to the task bar so you got their contents as a pop up menu and many more.

 

[yabeweb]

Microsoft released updates that have literally wiped people's entire hard drives.

You mean like this?

Apple has fixed a serious macOS Big Sur bug that caused data loss

Check your space before your wreck your space

www.techradar.com

Serious Apple iOS 15 Bug Is Deleting User Data

An iOS 15 bug appears to be deleting users’ saved files.

www.forbes.com

Market Research Telecast

marketresearchtelecast.com

Apple Mail bug causing data loss in macOS Catalina

A blog post by Michael Tsai via MacRumors is today suggesting that macOS Catalina seems to be experiencing a data loss issue within Mail when moving emails between inboxes.

www.imore.com

I mean data loss during updates is NOT limited to MS, Apple had its fair share (Photost and such on iOS as well)

 

[Cognizant.]

You mean like this?

Apple has fixed a serious macOS Big Sur bug that caused data loss

Check your space before your wreck your space

www.techradar.com

Serious Apple iOS 15 Bug Is Deleting User Data

An iOS 15 bug appears to be deleting users’ saved files.

www.forbes.com

Market Research Telecast

marketresearchtelecast.com

Apple Mail bug causing data loss in macOS Catalina

A blog post by Michael Tsai via MacRumors is today suggesting that macOS Catalina seems to be experiencing a data loss issue within Mail when moving emails between inboxes.

www.imore.com

I mean data loss during updates is NOT limited to MS, Apple had its fair share (Photost and such on iOS as well)

Yes, I agree. I wasn't defending Apple's updates causing issues (I've had macOS updates brick my devices), I was pointing out that Microsoft isn't free from causing issues, either with the OS itself or third party apps, which is what the poster seemed to be implying.

 

[yabeweb]

Yes, I agree. I wasn't defending Apple's updates causing issues (I've had macOS updates brick my devices), I was pointing out that Microsoft isn't free from causing issues, either with the OS itself or third party apps, which is what the poster seemed to be implying.

People tend to forget that there's no such thing as a perfect / bug free software.
All companies are equally affected in one way or another.

 

[Cognizant.]

People tend to forget that there's no such thing as a perfect / bug free software.
All companies are equally affected in one way or another.

No, there isn't. Unfortunately for me I always enjoy doing day one updates.


I always make a back up of things before playing with updates though.

 

[svish]

Happy to see Apple releasing fix for older macOS.

 

[iHorseHead]

Happy to see Apple releasing fix for older macOS.

It's not that much old to be fair. They've always supported 3 OSes at the same time with the exception of Snow Leopard that received it's last update in 2016.

 

[chrfr]

It's not that much old to be fair. They've always supported 3 OSes at the same time with the exception of Snow Leopard that received it's last update in 2016.

In general Apple only releases security updates (and often incompletely so) for the older 2 operating systems. In this case, they're fixing a bug that was accidentally introduced in 11.6.6's security updates.

 

[JKAussieSkater]

Alright! Firstly, I consider Windows 10 to be an acceptable, modern operating system, and it's 5 days shy of being a 7-year-old operating system. Any comparisons of modern macOS glitches shouldn't be compared against any version of Microsoft Windows older than Windows 10. We live in the 2020s now, so we have higher expectations from Microsoft and Apple. With that in mind… I'll do some replies!

LOL I hope that was being facetious.

Microsoft broke 120,000 desktop seats across 5000 separate companies due to a bug in IE9 download prompting. This was open for 9 years in Connect until they shut that down and they never even looked at it despite being a MS Gold Partner at the time. The bug went away when they replaced IE with Edge finally.

Nope, I wasn't being facetious. Firstly, I couldn't find what you're talking about, so a citation would have helped… but actually, never mind, because as Freeangel1 said:

oh my Gosh. Internet Explorer version 9 was so long ago.

Internet Explorer 9 was superseded by version 10 almost 10 years ago… needless to say, Windows 10 (which I consider the baseline "fair" modern comparison with Apple's latest operating systems over the past 7 years) was shipped with IE11. So your example, Danfango, is considerably out-dated. However, I am interested in any comparisons you might know about with Windows 10, where Windows 10 updates (non-beta versions) broke 3rd party software that was previously compatible with Windows 10.

Windows has “preview“ updates that break third party apps. Last month it was antivirus apps that broke.

Is "preview" analogous to "beta"? If yes, then I don't really think that's a fair comparison. Particularly with Antivirus apps, which usually modify or utilise low-level kernel properties. Beta operating systems exist so that Antivirus developers (and literally any other developer who cares enough) can maintain compatibility in the final release.

Why should he? He responded to a post stating only Apple has these issues. Which is obviously nonsense.

I think only Apple are having the specific issue of the OS updates are breaking 3rd party software, yes. If it's nonsense, I need some sort of proof that Windows 10 updates broke software… Are there many (or any) examples?

Last month they introduced sensitivity labelling to Microsoft office 365 which broke the same application because it broke VSTO plug-in document load event.

So no.

That was a software update that broke their own software (i.e. an Office 365 update had an Office 365 breaking bug). Quite different to the event where an operating system update breaks other software. This example you provided is not equivalent.

Microsoft released updates that have literally wiped people's entire hard drives.

I've never heard of this? Can you cite any news reports? Beta software updates don't count, since that's part of the risk of installing beta updates. Did it happen in the past 7 years?

I used to support commercial clients and yes Microsoft DID occasionally kill or maim third party software. Heck, occasionally they would even do it to their own software! Most of the time, the 'offending companies' were told their software was to blame and they would have to fix it. It seemed only rarely would Microsoft come down from on high and admit their 'fix' broke something, and then release another fix to fix the fix.

It happened, but was rare, and sometimes the errors would be so silly, like this one, not checking to see if the app is already running before trying to open it.

It sounds like you've got quite some experience with that… but were those experiences prior to Windows 10?

 

[svenmany]

I'm just getting a spinning wheel and "Checking for updates...". Is anyone else seeing this when trying to update?

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

It sounds like you've got quite some experience with that… but were those experiences prior to Windows 10?

NT4, and on from there.

NT4, where the manuals were carved stone tablets! It was shaky as heck. Had one client that if their systems were left on over the weekend, they would all crash within minutes on Monday morning's first use. They had to reboot, and ended up actually rebooting everything at least every other day, if not daily. They just stayed more stable that way. Their NT Server had to be rebooted at a minimum weekly or it crashed. Sometimes it crashed hard too, corrupted a hard drive once it did. You always rebooted after any updates and hoped it came back up (slightly kidding here). Their systems were used, at one point nearly 24x6 during this time. They had a Netware server too, and it needed to be rebooted maybe once a year, or if there was an update installed. And, like VHS for video tape: Windows, the lesser technology, won the server wars. *sigh* But babysitting temperamental Windows servers paid the bills, kept me off the streets...

One client had a Netware 3.1 server that hadn't been rebooted for over three years. Wow... It just kept on working like a champ. One client asked me if I tithed money back to Bill Gates. They saw me a lot more after they changed to a Windows SBS box. Of course I tithed money back, I had to pay for Technet, and all that training...

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I'm just getting a spinning wheel and "Checking for updates...". Is anyone else seeing this when trying to update?

I had Big Sur do that once. I just stopped it, and tried again and almost immediately it announced the update. I think it happened a few times like that. Weird, but what are you going to do? Try again... I think it took a couple of times once, but finally updated.

 

[StudioMacs]

Is "preview" analogous to "beta"? If yes, then I don't really think that's a fair comparison. Particularly with Antivirus apps, which usually modify or utilise low-level kernel properties. Beta operating systems exist so that Antivirus developers (and literally any other developer who cares enough) can maintain compatibility in the final release.

No, MS previews are not the same as beta. Preview updates are for admins to test the update on their systems, not for admins to test the update itself as a beta would. Preview updates don't contain security patches. It's not a beta test.

Do you seriously think MS updates never affect third-party software?

 

[Cognizant.]

No, MS previews are not the same as beta. Preview updates are for admins to test the update on their systems, not for admins to test the update itself as a beta would. Preview updates don't contain security patches. It's not a beta test.

Do you seriously think MS updates never affect third-party software?

I've lost count how many times Windows updates caused serious bugs in my apps. I know that it's up to devs to address these issues, but it still happens.

 

[JKAussieSkater]

No, MS previews are not the same as beta. Preview updates are for admins to test the update on their systems, not for admins to test the update itself as a beta would. Preview updates don't contain security patches. It's not a beta test.

I found it difficult to grasp what you’re saying… So I searched the difference and the first article in the search result said that a Microsoft employee said this:

A Preview is not considered even Alpha code, let alone Beta. Previews are far less stable than Beta releases. Previews are used more as a tool to announce major policy shifts and give the public a taste while still holding out some tweaks and surprises for the final release. In other words, Previews are the initial artist's sketch before visualizing the final drawing.

Beta releases, on the other hand, contain all the core components with all the functionality already baked in. Beta releases are about receiving kudos for a job well done, while customers test to ensure all the cool features they need are included and they work in multiple scenarios. Some functions may still need some work, and some additional polishing may need to be performed, but the product or tool is extremely close to being done.

So, in contrary to what you’re saying, “Windows Previews” are known to be *less* stable than betas from the beginning. I don’t find that grounds for a comparison with regular OS updates.