Apple Releases New Diversity Numbers, Hired Over 11,000 Women in Past Year

[Zombie Acorn]

When nearly half of your customers are going to be women, simply being a woman puts you at an advantage when applying to one of these jobs now days.

Technology has and will continue to shift away from the domain of nerdy guy in the basement. Although we will keep our nostalgia for those days.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

I always enjoy making up crazy information whenever a survey or the census asks me anything personal.

 

[Zombie Acorn]

How come the percentage of women taking computer science is lower than in the 1980s?

i think it's due to the perception of people in the field, for guys you typically were a loser if you stayed indoors countless hours practicing the trade in HS.

That's not really a perception most women enjoy as they are typically more socially oriented, but without that sacrifice you are already way behind by the time you graduate HS.

 

[AFEPPL]

Pure discrimination... A company should not be able or even try to recruit based on gender, religion or race its just totally wrong. It's like having or allowing threads on a forum that are based only gender

 

[kds1]

I understand what Tim is trying to do but the problem traces back to the education system. I work for a huge corporation and our IT dept is 80-85% male (very diversified: Asian, blacks, whites, Spanish, European, etc) with the rest of the women doing user training, project management and a few in managerial positions.

Even when we ask the recruiter to specifically send us women for very technical positions in networking, telephony and software development the numbers that we see are minuscule. In my case, when I graduated there was this stigma of IT being boring and difficult so I don't have an answer on how we can improve the odds of more women in IT.

Spanish is European. You mean Hispanic or Latino. Puerto Ricans or Dominicans or Ecuadoreans etc., are not Spanish.

 

[iceperson]

How come the percentage of women taking computer science is lower than in the 1980s?

It's not, at least not by much. The percentage of men interested in computing increased right around the time the home computer and video game revolution of the 80s. Any reduction of women studying computer science coincides with their increased pursuit of degrees in engineering. It's a logical fallacy that if the ratio changes then one group must have shrank. One population group simply has to grow faster than the other.

 

[cfedu]

How come the percentage of women taking computer science is lower than in the 1980s?

Female choice.

 

[hayesk]

How many more qualified men we're ignored in favour of 'diversity'?

Based on diversity numbers way more qualified women and visual minorities have been ignored than men. The problem when people respond to diversity initiatives with "they should hire the best person period" is that they don't define what makes the best person, and in many cases, assume that the most qualified person is a white man.

If I own a company that makes consumer products, I want my employees to have a wide variety of perspective, world view, and cultural backgrounds, otherwise my products end up coming out designed for one section of the market. If my employees are 90% white male, the products end up being suitable for, you guessed it, white males.

Sometimes being a non-white male is a qualification, if I already have many of them in my company. Qualification for a tech job is more than programming skill. Once an applicant has met the level required for the job, other qualifications such as perspective, world view, culture, interpersonal skills become much more important. And if that doesn't sit well with you, don't worry, if the percentage of white males drops so low because of diversity initiatives, there will soon be one for them too. Right now, that doesn't seem to be a problem - qualified white males are being hired in the tech industry everywhere. And to those that aren't able to find work, well, they may want to ask themselves if they're as qualified as they think they are.

In addition to this, consider that diversity initiatives aren't just about choosing which applicant to hire. It's also about recruiting. If you have recruiting events in a bar, run ads in specific locations or websites, you may not be reaching "the best qualified person" at all.

 

[hayesk]

Female choice.

Even though thousands of them claim they were left because they couldn't stand the misogynistic behaviour, and know even more that left but were afraid to speak up? Sorry, but it just doesn't add up.

 

[iceperson]

Based on diversity numbers way more qualified women and visual minorities have been ignored than men.

Wait, are you saying you can't tell the difference between an Anglo white and an Indian or Asian? Plus, both Asian and Indians are over represented in tech. Perhaps you need to rethink your argument...

Also, how are these women becoming more qualified than their male peers without getting MIS, CS, or math related educations? Are you implying that women have an innate advantage in STEM fields due to their gender that negates the need for them to study in order to gain mastery?

 

[richpjr]

previously

And you base that on what? The terrible quality of their products? Their lack of success? Their lack of mindshare and marketshare?

 

[richpjr]

I did not take that to be his point at all. I took it to be that r

Based on diversity numbers way more qualified women and visual minorities have been ignored than men. The problem when people respond to diversity initiatives with "they should hire the best person period" is that they don't define what makes the best person, and in many cases, assume that the most qualified person is a white man.

If I own a company that makes consumer products, I want my employees to have a wide variety of perspective, world view, and cultural backgrounds, otherwise my products end up coming out designed for one section of the market. If my employees are 90% white male, the products end up being suitable for, you guessed it, white males.

Sometimes being a non-white male is a qualification, if I already have many of them in my company. Qualification for a tech job is more than programming skill. Once an applicant has met the level required for the job, other qualifications such as perspective, world view, culture, interpersonal skills become much more important. And if that doesn't sit well with you, don't worry, if the percentage of white males drops so low because of diversity initiatives, there will soon be one for them too. Right now, that doesn't seem to be a problem - qualified white males are being hired in the tech industry everywhere. And to those that aren't able to find work, well, they may want to ask themselves if they're as qualified as they think they are.

In addition to this, consider that diversity initiatives aren't just about choosing which applicant to hire. It's also about recruiting. If you have recruiting events in a bar, run ads in specific locations or websites, you may not be reaching "the best qualified person" at all.

This argument holds no water, at least in regards to male vs females (as that is the only numbers if have seen broken down). If over 80% of the degrees are received by males, than if anything you could argue they are underrepresented. The vast majority of things Apple produces have nothing to do with gender or ethnicity. You think those matter when designing a power supply? A wireless receiver? A motherboard? A slim case? On and on and on. Absolutely the end user experience should take into account the target market (and obviously females are a very large portion of that) but for the vast majority of things the gender or ethnicity of the people designing and building the products is just not relevant, which goes back to the point that Apple should hire the best candidate. And if the best candidate is a male, they should be hired. If it's a female, they should be hired.

 

[cfedu]

Even though thousands of them claim they were left because they couldn't stand the misogynistic behaviour, and know even more that left but were afraid to speak up? Sorry, but it just doesn't add up.

Citation? I was talking about females taking training not leaving their profession. Either way it is a choice to take a course and a choice if you decide to leave. Maybe they use misogyny as an excuse just like some people are saying about males leaving their profession or males not being hired.

Maybe males are not going to university as much because of misandry?

No they are make a choice. I know some feminsit like to blame men that they graduated in gender studies instead of STEM.

 

[Happybunny]

What is so funny is that given that many of you have thrown a gigantic hissy fit about this.

In a few months, most of you will queue up to buy the lastest iPhone.

 

[cfedu]

What is so funny is that given that many of you have thrown a gigantic hissy fit about this.

In a few months, most of you will queue up to buy the lastest iPhone.

Not really, most of the dicusion is about how some people support affirmative action where gender can be used as a tie breaker. The other side is saying I hope that Apple does not have an affirmative action policy, but rather the people being hired were the most qualified for the position, I don't think that is having a hissy fit.

 

[linuxcooldude]

How come the percentage of women taking computer science is lower than in the 1980s?

I think there was an initial interest in computers by women, as it was a new field at the time. But as with a lot of hard sciences, women were more interested in other occupations.

 

[0098386]

Even though thousands of them claim they were left because they couldn't stand the misogynistic behaviour, and know even more that left but were afraid to speak up? Sorry, but it just doesn't add up.

Yup. A (small) company I used to work with had half the women who worked there leave after reporting sexual harassment - not necessarily from people within the company but from other companies they dealt with. There's a creepy guy who also works at my sisters place, he keeps on putting his hand on her shoulder or arm. Only does it to the women there. (obviously reported)

This is why I'll actively look for women to hire because so many have had horrible experiences from male employees. It makes sense to strive for and offer a safe workplace.

 

[linuxcooldude]

Yup. A (small) company I used to work with had half the women who worked there leave after reporting sexual harassment - not necessarily from people within the company but from other companies they dealt with. There's a creepy guy who also works at my sisters place, he keeps on putting his hand on her shoulder or arm. Only does it to the women there. (obviously reported)

This is why I'll actively look for women to hire because so many have had horrible experiences from male employees. It makes sense to strive for and offer a safe workplace.

I'm not understanding what you are saying. You say half are quitting within your company, but because of other companies?!? The idea here is to not simply hire more women, but to stop whats causing them to leave in the first place, sexual harassment.

I don't see any correlation where tech jobs have more harassment compared to any other jobs where men and women work together.

 

[Eraserhead]

I'm not understanding what you are saying. You say half are quitting within your company, but because of other companies?!? The idea here is to not simply hire more women, but to stop whats causing them to leave in the first place, sexual harassment.

Well, yes. And campaigns like this will help.

 

[randian]

Even though thousands of them claim they were left because they couldn't stand the misogynistic behaviour, and know even more that left but were afraid to speak up?

The problem is you're accepting what they say without asking for definitions. Techies are notoriously task- and job-oriented, so they treat women like they treat men. It's socially terrible of course. Most women I know use "anything I don't like" as their operative definition of "misogyny", and they sure as hell don't like being treated like men.

 

[cfedu]

Yup. A (small) company I used to work with had half the women who worked there leave after reporting sexual harassment - not necessarily from people within the company but from other companies they dealt with. There's a creepy guy who also works at my sisters place, he keeps on putting his hand on her shoulder or arm. Only does it to the women there. (obviously reported)

This is why I'll actively look for women to hire because so many have had horrible experiences from male employees. It makes sense to strive for and offer a safe workplace.

So one or two bad apples and you now try to hire only women. Change the bad apple to a black person and say that again and see the reaction you will get. Change it from man to woman and see what reaction you get.

I work in the male dominated industry of aviation and have seen both male and female get fired for doing inappropriate things. One of my fellow pilots sent an email to dispatch requesting he not be paired with female pilots. Guess what he got fired. I would have to say most of the female first officers that I fly with have all been top notch. At one time we had more female pilots than male as IMO male pilots quit at a faster rate, sometimes after only a few months.

If coworkers or vendors are doing inappropriate stuff, the the proper channels should be followed to fix the issue.

 

[richpjr]

Yup. A (small) company I used to work with had half the women who worked there leave after reporting sexual harassment - not necessarily from people within the company but from other companies they dealt with. There's a creepy guy who also works at my sisters place, he keeps on putting his hand on her shoulder or arm. Only does it to the women there. (obviously reported)

This is why I'll actively look for women to hire because so many have had horrible experiences from male employees. It makes sense to strive for and offer a safe workplace.

The sad reality is that there is, and likely will always be, narrow minded people who will judge, hire and treat people differently based on their gender and ethnicity. I don't know industry you are currently in, but are you really putting your company in the best place to succeed by actively looking for women instead of actively looking for the best candidate? How is that not gender discrimination?

 

[mrsir2009]

Pure discrimination... A company should not be able or even try to recruit based on gender, religion or race its just totally wrong. It's like having or allowing threads on a forum that are based only gender

Why? If they want to hire women because they're women, who cares. If they do it at the expense of the quality of the products/services then they will eventually go out of business, so it all works out in the end.

 

[cfedu]

The sad reality is that there is, and likely will always be, narrow minded people who will judge, hire and treat people differently based on their gender and ethnicity. I don't know industry you are currently in, but are you really putting your company in the best place to succeed by actively looking for women instead of actively looking for the best candidate? How is that not gender discrimination?

Thats just the way it is, white males by definitions can't be discriminated against as we are the oppressors, same goes when a SJW says black people can't be racist.

Imagine if he wrote this,

There was a false rape allegation by a women at my brothers work against him. At the time of the said rape he was in Asia on a business trip.

"This is why I'll actively look for men to hire because so many have had horrible experiences from female employees. It makes sense to strive for and offer a safe workplace."

 

[mrsir2009]

When nearly half of your customers are going to be women, simply being a woman puts you at an advantage when applying to one of these jobs now days.

Technology has and will continue to shift away from the domain of nerdy guy in the basement. Although we will keep our nostalgia for those days.

I guess it depends on the exact job. If you want programmers it doesn't matter what gender they are at all, however if you are hiring someone to create advertising targeted at a certain gender then you'll want people of those gender designing the ads.