Apple Releases Tool to Help Developers Port Windows Games to Mac

[Bayshun]

Can't wait for Apple to put some L33T G4M3R LED lights on their MacBooks with flame decals. NOT!

Does anyone else feel enabling gaming on Mac cheapens the brand?

You sound like someone's grandpa trying to mock something you know nothing about. No one says "L33T" anymore. No one uses letters for numbers anymore. No one refers to RGBs as LEDs. No one puts (or has ever put?) flame decals on their ****.

And are you really suggesting that adding functionality to a piece of hardware is a bad thing? It cheapens the brand? What does that even mean? Time to nap now, old timer.

 

[Infinitatus]

Why is everybody comparing Apple Silicon with 3090 and 4090 graphics cards? The majority of gamers doesnt even have such a expensive card. Neither the majority of Mac users has a M2 Max or ultra.
The majority of windows gamers has graphics power equal to normal M1 or M2. M1 and M2 are much better than what many windows users have. So It is quite normal that Apple tries to enter the gamers community.

 

[enb141]

Why is everybody comparing Apple Silicon with 3090 and 4090 graphics cards? The majority of gamers doesnt even have such a expensive card. Neither the majority of Mac users has a M2 Max or ultra.
The majority of windows gamers has graphics power equal to normal M1 or M2. M1 and M2 are much better than what many windows users have. So It is quite normal that Apple tries to enter the gamers community.

M1 or M1 base have performance about 1050 1650, not 3050 which is the card that a majority of gamers have and also the memory, 8/256 is the standard for macs, you will need at least 16 or even 32 GB RAM so do your math, what kind of gamer is going to get a mac with 32 GB RAM with a 1650 GPU.

If you want hardcore gaming, the Mac Pro has a performance about a 4070 for $7000, no single gamer will buy that such of computer for gaming, so in other words, macs can't compete in hardcore AAA games.

 

[JordanNZ]

For everyone making comparisons in this thread. Remember EVERY computer Apple sells today is faster than a steam deck.... That's really the baseline.

 

[TheRealNick]

Most people want hundreds of AAA games via subscriptions, not buy one by one individually.

Xbox Game Pass Games Library | Xbox

Explore the Game Pass library and play hundreds of games.

www.xbox.com

Game pass doesn’t have ‘hundreds of AAA games.’ It has a handful of AAA and a lot of indie and smaller studio games, some of which are awesome but many of which are garbage.

As for the ‘most people’ I’m not so sure on that.

Game Pass streaming DOES run on the Mac but it’s limited to 1080p and, even with a fast, wired connection there is noticeable lag. It could be taken more seriously in the future as an option for gaming on the Mac but it’s just not there at the moment.

 

[d686546s]

M1 or M1 base have performance about 1050 1650, not 3050 which is the card that a majority of gamers have and also the memory, 8/256 is the standard for macs, you will need at least 16 or even 32 GB RAM so do your math, what kind of gamer is going to get a mac with 32 GB RAM with a 1650 GPU.

If you want hardcore gaming, the Mac Pro has a performance about a 4070 for $7000, no single gamer will buy that such of computer for gaming, so in other words, macs can't compete in hardcore AAA games.

This isn't about hardcore gaming and I think this whole discussion about whether or not the Mac will run the latest AAA games at the highest settings is beside the point.

In my view isn't whether the Mac Pro, the Mac Studio or even the MacBook Pro can run games in high settings, but which and how many games the base configuration MacBook Air and Mac Mini can run at a decent performance.

I love video games and I play mostly on my consoles, but it's worth pointing out that out of the ~160 games I have on Steam, only 37 are supported on my Mac. Unless you drive that number up gaming on the Mac will remain a sideshow because even the most casual gamers -- the people who are frequently described as the target audience here -- will get frustrated if 2/3rds of the games they want to play just aren't available.

In this respect this tool is great if it helps publishers port their games to the Mac, but the incentive is and will always will be how many people are likely going to buy their game, which in turns depends on a) whether it will run and b) whether there's good reasons to invest in the platform.

For everyone making comparisons in this thread. Remember EVERY computer Apple sells today is faster than a steam deck.... That's really the baseline.

Absolutely true, but the Steam Deck runs games at 800p and low to medium settings. It's a great device and it has been my primary gaming device recently because of how easy it is to pick up, play for a bit, put it down and pick up later. It runs older AAA games just fine, but recent releases have been very hit and miss.

In any case, the reason why the Steam Deck is a good platform is because it has a huge selection of games as it just runs your Steam library of Windows games. If Apple (or Valve) finds a way to do the same with the Mac, ie make more games I have already bought available to me on the Mac, I'm all in.

Maybe in time Apple can even build iPhone and iPads into portable gaming consoles for my Mac library, but I'd prefer if that worked with my Steam games and I doubt Apple would allow that.

 

[Infinitatus]

M1 or M1 base have performance about 1050 1650, not 3050 which is the card that a majority of gamers have and also the memory, 8/256 is the standard for macs, you will need at least 16 or even 32 GB RAM so do your math, what kind of gamer is going to get a mac with 32 GB RAM with a 1650 GPU.

If you want hardcore gaming, the Mac Pro has a performance about a 4070 for $7000, no single gamer will buy that such of computer for gaming, so in other words, macs can't compete in hardcore AAA games.

First hit in Google: Well, among many other details of interest, they’ve confirmed that the most used graphics card by gamers is really affordable: the NVIDIA GTX 1650. Not the 3050. https://en.as.com/meristation/news/...by-steam-users-costs-less-than-200-dollars-n/

 

[enb141]

This isn't about hardcore gaming and I think this whole discussion about whether or not the Mac will run the latest AAA games at the highest settings is beside the point.

In my view isn't whether the Mac Pro, the Mac Studio or even the MacBook Pro can run games in high settings, but which and how many games the base configuration MacBook Air and Mac Mini can run at a decent performance.

I love video games and I play mostly on my consoles, but it's worth pointing out that out of the ~160 games I have on Steam, only 37 are supported on my Mac. Unless you drive that number up gaming on the Mac will remain a sideshow because even the most casual gamers -- the people who are frequently described as the target audience here -- will get frustrated if 2/3rds of the games they want to play just aren't available.

In this respect this tool is great if it helps publishers port their games to the Mac, but the incentive is and will always will be how many people are likely going to buy their game, which in turns depends on a) whether it will run and b) whether there's good reasons to invest in the platform.

AAA games makes and creates a huge business, they could invest in porting games to macs, casual are harder for the publisher to do it.

Absolutely true, but the Steam Deck runs games at 800p and low to medium settings. It's a great device and it has been my primary gaming device recently because of how easy it is to pick up, play for a bit, put it down and pick up later. It runs older AAA games just fine, but recent releases have been very hit and miss.

In any case, the reason why the Steam Deck is a good platform is because it has a huge selection of games as it just runs your Steam library of Windows games. If Apple (or Valve) finds a way to do the same with the Mac, ie make more games I have already bought available to me on the Mac, I'm all in.

Maybe in time Apple can even build iPhone and iPads into portable gaming consoles for my Mac library, but I'd prefer if that worked with my Steam games and I doubt Apple would allow that.

A steam deck like mac console instead of those goggles would be a smart move for apple.

 

[enb141]

First hit in Google: Well, among many other details of interest, they’ve confirmed that the most used graphics card by gamers is really affordable: the NVIDIA GTX 1650. Not the 3050. https://en.as.com/meristation/news/...by-steam-users-costs-less-than-200-dollars-n/

Just wait one year and you will see.

Anyways, if you want a decent gaming you will need at least a 3050 GPU.

 

[Piplodocus]

Does anyone else feel enabling gaming on Mac cheapens the brand?

Sure, because I want my computer to be extra niche, have limited abilities, and not do half the stuff a PC can. 🤦‍♂️

 

[Quackington]

Yes, they can and have. Apple's toolkit is just CrossOver 22.1.1 with patches applied to support DirectX 12 games.

Wine comes to macOS: Apple’s Game Porting Toolkit powered by CrossOver source code | CodeWeavers Blog

By Meredith Johnson | We are ecstatic that Apple chose to use CrossOver’s source code as their emulation solution for the Game Porting Toolkit.

www.codeweavers.com

This can also be confirmed by reading Apple's installer script.

It is not intended for end-users though, the whole setup process is command line based.

Codeweavers will be adding DirectX 12 support officially to their Crossover product in version 23 later this year and it's already in nightly tester builds, although it's not as compatible right now as apple's patched version of 22.

Does anyone know if it’s possible for someone to create some kind of small wysiwig app that’ll let us do all of this at the click of a button? Messing around with command lines doesn’t sound too appealing for a non-technical person like me.

 

[Ethosik]

Why is everybody comparing Apple Silicon with 3090 and 4090 graphics cards? The majority of gamers doesnt even have such a expensive card. Neither the majority of Mac users has a M2 Max or ultra.
The majority of windows gamers has graphics power equal to normal M1 or M2. M1 and M2 are much better than what many windows users have. So It is quite normal that Apple tries to enter the gamers community.

Because that’s all gaming threads turn in to. For 20 years I have seen this non stop discussion and it always is about flagship NVIDIA and equivalent of not being able to play at 4K 60 fps with extreme graphics today

 

[Ethosik]

For everyone making comparisons in this thread. Remember EVERY computer Apple sells today is faster than a steam deck.... That's really the baseline.

And the Switch. Which keeps getting many games. Not all. But many.

 

[steve123]

Does anyone know if it’s possible for someone to create some kind of small wysiwig app that’ll let us do all of this at the click of a button? Messing around with command lines doesn’t sound too appealing for a non-technical person like me.

It is called Wineskin. But, you need to install it using the homebrew cli.

GitHub - Kegworks-App/Kegworks: A user-friendly tool used to make wine wrapped ports of Windows software for macOS.

A user-friendly tool used to make wine wrapped ports of Windows software for macOS. - Kegworks-App/Kegworks

github.com

Homebrew

The Missing Package Manager for macOS (or Linux).

brew.sh

 

[magbarn]

Why is everybody comparing Apple Silicon with 3090 and 4090 graphics cards? The majority of gamers doesnt even have such a expensive card. Neither the majority of Mac users has a M2 Max or ultra.
The majority of windows gamers has graphics power equal to normal M1 or M2. M1 and M2 are much better than what many windows users have. So It is quite normal that Apple tries to enter the gamers community.

We're comparing them due to price equivalency. For less than the price of the mac studio M2 Ultra, you can build a 13900K/4090 combo with 4TB SSD and 64gb of RAM.

 

[steve123]

If Apple developed an emulator that is good enough to run games on, why are we still messing around with dual computers or Parallels?

Why not just release this like Rosetta.

Apple did not develop it. Wine has been around for a while and it is an open source project. It is not perfect, some stuff works and a lot of stuff does not work. When it does work it is a fantastically better way to run a Windows app on your Mac or Linux PC.

Codeweavers implements a GUI configuration tool for macOS to simplify installation and configuration of application "bottles" (the app bundle). Frankly, it is about time Apple stepped up and has chosen to support Wine.

Copyright infringement. Theft of intellectual property.

A PC game is licensed to run on Windows.... the law suits.... and the fact that so many comments like this are floating around this thread....

Huh? Wine is open source and has been around for a very long time now. Wine translates Windows API calls to macOS or Linux API calls. There is no theft of intellectual property going on with Wine.

 

[jlc1978]

AAA games makes and creates a huge business, they could invest in porting games to macs, casual are harder for the publisher to do it.

While they may have the money, the question is will the investment bring the desired margine or will it produce to small of a return and teh money better spent on PC projects.

Yes, if they could bring back Bill Budge's Pinball Construction Set, that would be great.

That’s a real blast from the past.

 

[paulovsouza]

Yes, if they could bring back Bill Budge's Pinball Construction Set, that would be great.

Some of the other titles like Apex Legends and The Sims might be okay, too.

Sims alone feels very Mac to me. And they have a bunch of mobile titles already, so those would be the cherry on top. And they have a good relationship with Disney, so a lot of Star Wars and other Disney brands would be willing to make a game with Apple through EA

 

[2fx1989]

I find all the PC-centric anti-Mac replies amusing/tedious.

When oh when oh when will the PC gamers posting on Mac forums realise the following?:

1: that Mac gamers are not obsessed with the latest and highest spec hardware

2: that Mac gamers don't care what PC gamers think about their Macs

3: that most Mac gamers use their Macs in a professional capacity to pay their mortgages and like to game occasionally

4: that most Mac users couldn't think of anything worse than having a giant, noisy pig-ugly (sorry lovely pigs) PC taking up valuable space in their homes when they can have a beautifully designed, quiet, professional computer that looks nice, pays the bills and (hopefully) allows them to do some occasional gaming.

5: Did I mention that Mac users DO NOT CARE WHAT PC GAMERS THINK? 🙄🙄🙄


I've been working professionally on Macs for many years in the design, advertising and now software engineering industries but I also love playing Battlefield for a few hours per week. I had a 2009 iMac Core2Duo for 12 years up until 2021 and it was a great machine. I knew that it never had the latest greatest graphics card (the graphics card obsession thing is so so tedious 🙄) but it did have good enough graphics to play older versions of Battlefield which was good enough for me.

Bootcamp is so great because you get all the fun of Windows games without all the horrible PC hardware. So I was torn when I had to decide what replace the old iMac with because I knew the M1 was better than the latest Intel machine but it wouldn't have Bootcamp. I did go for a 2020 iMac 27 inch AMD Radeon Pro 5500 XT 8 GB and I love it. It's definitely fast enough for software engineering and it plays Battlefield 3/4 etc definitely well enough to be enjoyable. If Game Porting Toolkit stayed around and I could play Battlefield on a n M3 MacMini or a Mac Studio then that would be very interesting indeed.

My point is that I believe that most Mac gamers fall into this category of professional user/casual gamer and we literally don't care what graphics card others have or the fact that they can play the latest games at 5 bazillion frames per second.

 

[NotTooLate]

So you want apple to fight monopoly to get their their own monopoly?

? not sure how you concluded they are going to be their own monopoly .......

 

[d686546s]

I find all the PC-centric anti-Mac replies amusing/tedious.

When oh when oh when will the PC gamers posting on Mac forums realise the following?:

1: that Mac gamers are not obsessed with the latest and highest spec hardware

Yet somehow every article here on Apple's iPhone and Mac chips is full of people salivating over the latest benchmark figures. I think, on average, most Mac users are just as much or just as little obsessed with the latest spec hardware as PC users.

But you're of course right that, as a Mac gamer, there is little point in being obsessed over latest specs for gaming if it's neither supported nor has the games to require it.

2: that Mac gamers don't care what PC gamers think about their Macs

I'd wager that a lot of people here who actually play on PC have it specifically for games while using the Mac for everything else, so it's kind of weird to dismiss Mac user's opinion on gaming on the Mac.

3: that most Mac gamers use their Macs in a professional capacity to pay their mortgages and like to game occasionally

Based on what evidence? Do these people 'like' to game occasionally on their Mac or do they just game occasionally because a lot of games just run on PCs and consoles? If I like video games a lot and have a Mac and a console, am I being disqualified here because I'm not a Mac gamer?

4: that most Mac users couldn't think of anything worse than having a giant, noisy pig-ugly (sorry lovely pigs) PC taking up valuable space in their homes when they can have a beautifully designed, quiet, professional computer that looks nice, pays the bills and (hopefully) allows them to do some occasional gaming.

Oh yes because us Mac users are so special and aesthetically demanding that we rather not play a game we like because having a PC (or a console) is such an imposition on your fragile sense of beauty.

(...)


My point is that I believe that most Mac gamers fall into this category of professional user/casual gamer and we literally don't care what graphics card others have or the fact that they can play the latest games at 5 bazillion frames per second.

Making a play for gaming on the Mac for people who only very occasionally play a single game while they take a break from their super important work makes very little sense.

For an attractive platform you need games, and for games you need gamers who actually buy and play games regularly. Most gamers probably don't care if the latest game doesn't run at 4K at 60 or 120 fps, but they will care of the game doesn't run at all.

So I hate to break it to you, but for the viability of the Mac as a gaming platform the opinions of people who like video games is important -- whether you like it or not.

 

[Quackington]

It is called Wineskin. But, you need to install it using the homebrew cli.

GitHub - Kegworks-App/Kegworks: A user-friendly tool used to make wine wrapped ports of Windows software for macOS.

A user-friendly tool used to make wine wrapped ports of Windows software for macOS. - Kegworks-App/Kegworks

github.com

Homebrew

The Missing Package Manager for macOS (or Linux).

brew.sh

Thanks for this. I feel like this looks simple but I’m a little confused. Can I install homebrew via running a command in Terminal?

 

[2fx1989]

Yet somehow every article here on Apple's iPhone and Mac chips is full of people salivating over the latest benchmark figures. I think, on average, most Mac users are just as much or just as little obsessed with the latest spec hardware as PC users.

But you're of course right that, as a Mac gamer, there is little point in being obsessed over latest specs for gaming if it's neither supported nor has the games to require it.



I'd wager that a lot of people here who actually play on PC have it specifically for games while using the Mac for everything else, so it's kind of weird to dismiss Mac user's opinion on gaming on the Mac.



Based on what evidence? Do these people 'like' to game occasionally on their Mac or do they just game occasionally because a lot of games just run on PCs and consoles? If I like video games a lot and have a Mac and a console, am I being disqualified here because I'm not a Mac gamer?



Oh yes because us Mac users are so special and aesthetically demanding that we rather not play a game we like because having a PC (or a console) is such an imposition on your fragile sense of beauty.



And who made you the mayor of Mac gamer town?





Making a play for gaming on the Mac for people who only very occasionally play a single game while they take a break from their super important work makes very little sense.

For an attractive platform you need games, and for games you need gamers who actually buy and play games regularly. Most gamers probably don't care if the latest game doesn't run at 4K at 60 or 120 fps, but they will care of the game doesn't run at all.

So I hate to break it to you, but for the viability of the Mac as a gaming platform the opinions of people who like video games is important -- whether you like it or not.

I'm just making the point that it's "my opinion" that most Mac gamers are in a different category to a certain type of PC gamer that seems to have an obsession with "my PC is faster than your Mac". I'm only on Mac forums to see/discuss constructive info about Macs, I don't care about PCs in general or the latest PC graphics card. If there were more games on MacOS I wouldn't have to deal with poxy MS Windows either but because I'm a casual gamer and I love Battlefield I have no choice.

Why can't they just stay on their equivalent of macrumors seeing as they nothing constructive to say here? It just gets a bit tedious at times.

P.S. Has anyone tried to run any Battlefield on GTP yet by any chance? 🤞🤞🤞🤞
Maybe it's not possible for some technical reason?

 

[jlc1978]

So I hate to break it to you, but for the viability of the Mac as a gaming platform the opinions of people who like video games is important -- whether you like it or not.

Ultimately, what opinions will count is Apple’s and game manufacturers’ as to the desirability and profitability of Mac gaming.

 

[d686546s]

I'm just making the point that it's "my opinion" that most Mac gamers are in a different category to a certain type of PC gamer that seems to have an obsession with "my PC is faster than your Mac". I'm only on Mac forums to see/discuss constructive info about Macs, I don't care about PCs in general or the latest PC graphics card. I

That's fair, although I think we constantly draw comparisons to the PC as the primary competing platform (ignoring consoles of course). When Apple introduced the M1 chips the presentation included graphs on how it outperforms PCs in some areas. When video production or whatever else are being discussed here inevitably someone will bring up how his/her Mac outperforms the PC.

Why not for gaming? I've never been particularly interested in the highest specs either, but I bet there are Mac users who love their Mac and would like to play on the highest resolution and frame rates. What counts as constructive in such open ended discussions is generally difficult to determine.

f there were more games on MacOS I wouldn't have to deal with poxy MS Windows either but because I'm a casual gamer and I love Battlefield I have no choice.

I understand, although I still don't fully agree with your previous characterisation that you're either a high octane FPS junky or a 'casual' gamer in the sense that you only play very occasionally.

I used to love video games on my PC in the 90s and early 00s and this basically came to an end when I switched to a PowerPC Mac in the early 00s. It wasn't until I bought myself an Xbox more than 10 years later that I started to game more regularly again. If the Mac had broader support to run a lot of games relatively decently enough this may have been different. I think what I'm trying to say is that I wasn't a Mac user and a casual gamer, I was a casual gamer because I was a Mac user!