Apple Relents, Approves 'Eucalyptus' eBook App

[str1f3]

Why would you love to see this happen? Amazon has the market on the e-book and book market. Apple has the market on the music.

Wouldn't it be more beneficial if Apple put their resources into what they know best and offer a solution (kindle on iPhone) for other areas of expertise?

Amazon, like Apple didn't get to where it is overnight.

Apple makes a profit on each book sold with the Kindle app and they have put no resources into it because they have no development time and don't have to negotiate terms with publishers.

First off, you are wrong in thinking they make a profit. Apple makes no profit on books purchased through the Kindle app. Amazon is slick enough to take you through a browser to their website, so they can avoid paying any percentages to Apple. This is why you need an Amazon account and not an iTunes account to make a purchase.

Because Amazon has a monopoly on books, not the hardware they carry it on. If an Apple tablet came with a Eucalyptas book reading engine it would mean:

-Apple would keep it more open than Amazon does with the Kindle allowing some level of competition
-Amazon would still have to let the tablet have access to their store or Apple could cut direct direct deals with publishers (which they may do anyway). As with any other paper industry, books are also struggling, which would mean they could cut the similar deals to Amazon.
-While the Kindle may have better battery life, a color tablet would be in far more use on a college campus due to it's ability to display color and it's multimedia OSX touch browser/multimedia abilities.

 

[kas23]

First off, you are wrong in thinking they make a profit. Apple makes no profit on books purchased through the Kindle app. Amazon is slick enough to take you through a browser to their website, so they can avoid paying any percentages to Apple. This is why you need an Amazon account and not an iTunes account to make a purchase.

You are correct, as of right now. However, in-app purchasing will be coming in about 2 weeks (with the release of firmware 3.0). This is all assuming we will be able to make in-app purchasing within the Kindle App. The way it looks like right this minute is, no, we will not be able to. This is because in-app purchasing will not be allowed for free apps (and the Kindle app is currently free). Furthermore, Amazon would be brain dead to allow in-app purchasing within a Kindle app because 30% of sales via in-app purchasing will go into Apple's pocket.

 

[kas23]

I'm not an apologist for the pricing of the app but Stanza does not sell Amazon books. That's what the Kindle app is for.

This remains to be seen. Amazon owns Stanza right now. It is only a matter of time before they start selling Amazon books through it. Why else would they have purchased Lexcycle then? Just to say they own it? This was a pure bsuiness decision. They would not have spent millions of dollar on a company if it wasn't going to lead to more profit. Amazon is not going to ignore this potential revenue stream, especially when more people own the Stanza App than own the Kindle device. I give it 6 months before you can start purchasing Amazon books via Stanza.

I know people are kind of angry but the price will come down. The market will dictate the price. I'm a little peeved myself.

I wouldn't say people are angry. It's more that people are saying "WTF?" and are scratching their heads. I don't feel I'm currently losing out at all by not downloading this app. As of right now, this app offers very, very little functionality and very, very little that I can't get elsewhere. The only thing it can do is download PG it into. Big WOW. My Stanza App can already do this. Until the makers of Eucalyptus offer something that makes me envious or desire this app, I'll pass.

 

[Compile 'em all]

actually, the best way to get around this rejection is simply resubmit the app!
!

This NEVER worked for me, I have a strong feeling that if an app is rejected it is flagged in their system somehow. I have an app that was rejected 3 times, although it was approved at the end after I stripped down almost the whole core of the app

 

[str1f3]

You are correct, as of right now. However, in-app purchasing will be coming in about 2 weeks (with the release of firmware 3.0). This is all assuming we will be able to make in-app purchasing within the Kindle App. The way it looks like right this minute is, no, we will not be able to. This is because in-app purchasing will not be allowed for free apps (and the Kindle app is currently free). Furthermore, Amazon would be brain dead to allow in-app purchasing within a Kindle app because 30% of sales via in-app purchasing will go into Apple's pocket.

It won't change anything. Why would Amazon suddenly give Apple 30% of all revenues of their book sales when they are already selling books through the Kindle app? They have no need for in-app purchases. In-app purchases will only affect purchases that will directly change the functionality of the app.

 

[str1f3]

This remains to be seen. Amazon owns Stanza right now. It is only a matter of time before they start selling Amazon books through it. Why else would they have purchased Lexcycle then? Just to say they own it? This was a pure bsuiness decision. They would not have spent millions of dollar on a company if it wasn't going to lead to more profit. Amazon is not going to ignore this potential revenue stream, especially when more people own the Stanza App than own the Kindle device. I give it 6 months before you can start purchasing Amazon books via Stanza.



I wouldn't say people are angry. It's more that people are saying "WTF?" and are scratching their heads. I don't feel I'm currently losing out at all by not downloading this app. As of right now, this app offers very, very little functionality and very, very little that I can't get elsewhere. The only thing it can do is download PG it into. Big WOW. My Stanza App can already do this. Until the makers of Eucalyptus offer something that makes me envious or desire this app, I'll pass.

Amazon is consolidating everything. Amazon purchased Lexcycle because they want to control every avenue of book distribution. Like I've said before, Stanza is not going to have an Amazon store. There is already another free app that Amazon offers. Amazon would have not offered a Kindle app if they could have just used Stanza. This would serve no purpose and create no new sales. In fact many people believe Amazon bought it for the sake of killing it. A free book distribution app directly conflicts with their paid approach. Other publishers such as O'Reilly Books have been using Stanza as another means of distribution and I'm sure Amazon would rather have it go through them instead. Amazon has been buying up all means of book distribution as evidence of the purchase of Audible.

Mark my words. Over the next few years (maybe less) you will slowly see support for the Stanza app for the iPhone and desktop slowly disappear.

 

[Evangelion]

Whining about app-prices never ceases to amaze me. Ten bucks is equivalent to few cups of coffee in a coffee-shop, and you guys pay that price willingly. How much do you pay for alcohol in bars and nightclubs? Yet when you are asked to pay that much for an app, you whine.

I guess what you guys want is just mediocre, dirt-cheap apps. If someone takes their time creating a refined and good app, and asks 5-10 bucks for it, you start to whine. Behavior like that is the EXACT reason that is turning the app store in to a bastion of fart-apps that cost .99. If you are only willing to pay rock-bottom prices, don't be surprised if all you get is apps that are designed and built on shoestring-budget. In fact, I'm kinda surprised that you are buying Macs, when you could get a PC for less.

Don't like the price? Fine, then don't buy it. And remember your whining about the price next time when you are waiting in a line to buy a cup of coffee in a coffee-shop.

 

[nick9191]

Whining about app-prices never ceases to amaze me. Ten bucks is equivalent to few cups of coffee in a coffee-shop, and you guys pay that price willingly. How much do you pay for alcohol in bars and nightclubs? Yet when you are asked to pay that much for an app, you whine.

I guess what you guys want is just mediocre, dirt-cheap apps. If someone takes their time creating a refined and good app, and asks 5-10 bucks for it, you start to whine. Behavior like that is the EXACT reason that is turning the app store in to a bastion of fart-apps that cost .99. If you are only willing to pay rock-bottom prices, don't be surprised if all you get is apps that are designed and built on shoestring-budget. In fact, I'm kinda surprised that you are buying Macs, when you could get a PC for less.

Don't like the price? Fine, then don't buy it. And remember your whining about the price next time when you are waiting in a line to buy a cup of coffee in a coffee-shop.

Buy that man a drink.

 

[kas23]

It won't change anything. Why would Amazon suddenly give Apple 30% of all revenues of their book sales when they are already selling books through the Kindle app? They have no need for in-app purchases. In-app purchases will only affect purchases that will directly change the functionality of the app.

I think if you re-read my post (or read it to begin with), you would see I said the exact same as your conclusion above and completely agree with this.

As for in-app purchases, they don't necessarily have to change the intrinisic function of an app. There may be in-app purchses for each of these separate "off-line maps" or in-app purchases of these travel "phrase books" or specific weather apps for X city. This is a way Apple can clear up all the clutter in the app store. We don't need hundreds of completely individual apps for each city, each name, each sports team, each bodily function, etc. I can't see why in-app purchasing wouldn't apply to eBooks either. Why have a specific publisher put out separate apps for each book they have rights to? (Heck, publishers can cut out the middleman - Amazon - totally).

 

[kas23]

Don't like the price? Fine, then don't buy it. And remember your whining about the price next time when you are waiting in a line to buy a cup of coffee in a coffee-shop.

When I go and buy a cup(s) of coffee, I know exactly what I am buying. There are zero suprises because I bought the very same cup of coffee the day before. This is not so with an app. Maybe I just value coffee's effect on body and mood much more than playing around with some developer's beta version that I'll probably never use in a few days' time. I can think of hundreds of better ways to spend my time and resources. Until they give 1-3 day trial periods for apps (as this will act as quality control), poor analogy.

In fact, I'm kinda surprised that you are buying Macs, when you could get a PC for less.

This is you only valid point, I have to give you that.

 

[Evangelion]

When I go and buy a cup(s) of coffee, I know exactly what I am buying.

You don't know what you are getting when you are buying your first cup of coffee in some new coffee-shop.

I can think of hundreds of better ways to spend my time and resources.

Buying overpriced coffee is apparently one of them.

This is you only valid point, I have to give you that.

So why DO you buy Macs, when you could get PC for less?

 

[kas23]

You don't know what you are getting when you are buying your first cup of coffee in some new coffee-shop.

I don't go to any other coffee shop though. I go to the same one each day. This is just what I choose to do.

Buying overpriced coffee is apparently one of them.

You bet it is. I take it to go. This is what I value in life, just like you buying overpriced apps. But, you don't see me complaining about your own values and spending habits, do you?

So why DO you buy Macs, when you could get PC for less?

I like the user experience Macs give me. They are a well-established company that has been delivering the consumer quality for years, in my opinion. For those reading this, try going to an Apple store and try one out and see if you value your experience enough to spend your very own money on one.

Since I answered this last question for you, answer one question for me please; who are you to tell me what I should value in life and how I should spend my money?

 

[Compile 'em all]

Whining about app-prices never ceases to amaze me. Ten bucks is equivalent to few cups of coffee in a coffee-shop, and you guys pay that price willingly. How much do you pay for alcohol in bars and nightclubs? Yet when you are asked to pay that much for an app, you whine.

I agree to some extent but people value things differently. And 10 bucks is some to people and nothing to others.

 

[Evangelion]

You bet it is. I take it to go.

you could brew your own coffee and take that with you. It would be a lot cheaper.

I like the user experience Macs give me.

So how exactly is that different when comparing a rough app to a refined, more expensive app? Sure, you can read with Stanza. Just as you can do stuff on a PC. What Macs and Eucalyptus offers is level of refinement not found in the cheaper alternative. I find it surprising that we are willing to pay hundeds of dollars extra for refinement in out computers, but we are unwilling to pay few bucks extra for refinement in apps.

The chase for rock-bottom prices will result in mediocre, unrefined apps since the developers aim to create as cheap as possible apps, as opposed as good as possible apps. We can see that in computers: Apple wants to create good computers, PC-manufacturers want to create cheap computers.

They are a well-established company that has been delivering the consumer quality for years, in my opinion. For those reading this, try going to an Apple store and try one out and see if you value your experience enough to spend your very own money on one.

I do value the user-experience, that is why I use Macs instead of a PC.

Since I answered this last question for you, answer one question for me please; who are you to tell me what I should value in life and how I should spend my money?

Go right ahead and spend your money however you want to. I just find the level of whining about App Store apps and their prices to be idiotic. we are still talking about few bucks, not hundreds of dollars. If you don't like the price, feel free to spend your money elsewhere.

I read quite a bit. If I can make that process a bit more pleasant by investing few bucks, I consider that money well spent. That few bucks is irrelevant in the long run.

 

[Saladinos]

Lord, quiet down you two!

Apple need to get this AppStore rejection mess cleared up, if only to stop the media attention.

I remember when they rejected some farting application and the media picked it up. As soon as that app was approved, it shot to number 1. No doubt developers today are more happy than anything when their apps get rejected. I sure would be.

 

[nagromme]

So now the only way around the arcane review process is to get the media to pick up the story?

Actually, I'd say time, rather than media attention, is what's really needed in such a clear-cut case as this. It's a big operation, and it may take them a week or two to call back. I know I've gotten a call back twice about my game (not complete/submitted yet) without needing any media attention to make it happen. It just took time for them to get back to me.

This seems to sum up the tempest in this particular teapot:

1. Developer puts in hard work on a great app

2. App gets submitted amid a flood of thousands

3. Out of those thousands that Apple evaulates, a few mistakes are occasionally made, some of them blatant mistakes while others are grey areas that Apple has been evolving and improving steadily

4. A blatant mistake is made (disallowing an eBook that other apps already access) and is very frustrating to the developer on the other end of it

5. Apple fixes their mistakes, but with all those thousands of app submissions, the process to address a disputed decision isn't quick

6. But after days have passed, Apple calls (which they'll do without any media attention needed) and resolves the problem appropriately

7. Meanwhile, much hype has appeared on the Internet suggesting that out of all those thousands of apps, mistakes are the norm and are not corrected (despite numerous past examples of hyped mistakes that WERE corrected)

8. Apple will continue to make blatant mistakes (rare out of the thousands) because it is made up of people, and will continue to correct them

9. And the "grey area" bad calls (like when they disallowed iFart and browsers) keep improving over time, as Apple continues to improve the process (which they definitely do); and unlike the blatant errors, these grey areas probably benefit from media attention

 

[SpitzerCR]

oh wow.. all that ruckus over nothing...

 

[Kwill]

Alternative rejection strategy

"Please resubmit your application and charge twice a much as people are willing to pay or double the price of competition to receive expedited approval."

 

[str1f3]

oh wow.. all that ruckus over nothing...

It's not over nothing. The fundamental argument of this thread is how much is an app worth. This has been a debate that has started since the app store first opened.

 

[twoodcc]

i really wish apple wouldn't cave like this

 

[exodus]

"If Jesus Himself came back to earth and turned water to wine, half of MacRumors would say 'meh, this is red. I wanted white.'"

They would say "Photoshopped!"

 

[Compile 'em all]

i really wish apple wouldn't cave like this

Why not? It was their fault to begin with.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Correction: you can absolutely download books directly on the iPhone using Stanza. If you look in the menu 'Online Catalog' you can get either free books from Feedbooks, Gutenberg, Random House, or buy them from Fictionwise, O'Reilly, BooksOnBoard. It works great either way.

I haven't tried the iPhone app yet (haven't synced the thing yet), but I was going by the desktop application's instructions and it will NOT browse + download books. Given they are supposed to work together, I find it odd that Stanza desktop would have no features that the iPhone version has. Maybe they just don't care. They make excuses on their web site about why they haven't gotten around to wheel mouse scrolling even.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Whoops, I just noticed the multi-post. I forgot I already posted recently in this thread.... Sorry.

This remains to be seen. Amazon owns Stanza right now. It is only a matter of time before they start selling Amazon books through it. Why else would they have purchased Lexcycle then? Just to say they own it? This was a pure bsuiness decision. They would not have spent millions of dollar on a company if it wasn't going to lead to more profit.

You aren't thinking very business like. Businesses buy other businesses to PUT THEM OUT OF BUSINESS. Sure, they'll take their talent, etc. too, but the whole point is they no longer have a competitor to Kindle in the form of Stanza. They can sit on it, let it die or add some features from it to Kindle. In short, they can do anything they want with it or nothing with it. Either way, this pushes people to depend on Amazon (at least until someone else makes a good reader). I don't like it, personally. Capitalism depends on competition and buy-outs and mergers kill competition, but that's the way it seems to go in this country these days. If Microsoft could buy Apple to get rid of them without attracting more anti-trust trouble, I'm sure they would. But in their case, they WANT limited competition (emphasis on limited; lately Apple is doing a little too well or they wouldn't be targeting them in their ads) just to say they are not an actual monopoly. In fact, that's why Bill Gates helped Apple out when they were about to go out of business. He knew it would be bad for Microsoft to be the lone commercial desktop OS in the world.

Whining about app-prices never ceases to amaze me. Ten bucks is equivalent to few cups of coffee in a coffee-shop, and you guys pay that price willingly. How much do you pay for alcohol in bars and nightclubs? Yet when you are asked to pay that much for an app, you whine.

What are you doing with this very reply if not whining about people whining? Pot meet kettle. Personaly, I'd rather hear people whine about legitimate gripes than whine about other people giving their opinion. If you don't like to read people's opinions then skip the thread or move on to the next post. Why waste your time whining yourself about people giving their opinions? Besides, how do you know what people on here spend on drinks and coffee? Did you ever even consider that some of us might not drink at all (let alone waste tons of money on alcohol at bars) or that maybe we brew coffee at home to save money and that wasting $10 on an app you can get for free is just being careless with your money. Maybe the economy would like that, but Americans save far too little as it is and all you seem to be doing is encouraging them to spend even more. And I did buy a PC at the end of the 2007 year, thank you very much. I even assembled it myself to save money. I only bought the MBP when I did last October because I got it for $600 off (quite a savings for computers that are rarely if ever on sale) due to a clearance sale as the new models came in. Thus, I got a MBP for the price of the new regular Macbook. Yes, I like good deals, not getting ripped off. I'll use the FREE app, thank you.

Besides, 99 cent apps can make people millionaires if they sell over 1.2 million copies. That's not THAT hard to do with the iPhone's popularity being what it is and it's getting easier all the time. I wonder how many more copies of Photoshop Adobe could sell (instead of everyone pirating it) if they charged $99 instead of $699. A professional can afford $699 easy, but regular users have a hard time justifying it and spare me the crap about the lite $99 crap that absolutely sucks compared to the real thing (e.g. lack of transforms). So instead Photoshop ends up being one of the top applications pirated around the world. Maybe they could sell 50x the copies if they dropped the price. We'll never know because they'll never drop it. There's enough professionals in their mind making money from it to justify those prices even if they might possibly make more money dropping it. Supply and demand doesn't always work like it should.

Don't like the price? Fine, then don't buy it. And remember your whining about the price next time when you are waiting in a line to buy a cup of coffee in a coffee-shop.

Yeah, I'll think of you whining in this thread about whining. Maybe next time you see someone give their opinion, you'll think about some people having other points of view than your own before you tell them to stop whining.

 

[str1f3]

I bought the app yesterday and I've got to say it is the best looking app in the store by a wide margin. It is visually stunning. It's clear the developer put a lot of work into this and I think it's just the beginning. Give this guy a chance to add the features that Stanza offers. It will not be that hard. As far as the price goes, it's too expensive for the features though it is worth it for the experience.