I’d tend to think they’re not because if they were smart, they wouldn’t be abusing children or peddling CP images. Then again, I’m willing to defer to the authority of someone that might actually have more contact with folks like this than myself.
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Apple Remains Silent About Plans to Detect Known CSAM Stored in iCloud Photos
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What? Snowden has unveiled how the US government uses tech products to spy on people. That is a fact.
CSAM is another spying method, but this time Apple will now be monitoring for the US government, and you got to be really naive not to think the US government will not later extend CSAM given the horrible track record the US government has when it comes to spying.
Backdoors in tech products have been abused in many tech products by the US government too, while it was probably created for something minor.
I don't have the data to support it, but I would be really surprised if they are not smart enough to flip the ‘Disable iCloud Photos’ switch. If it is not on Apple their servers, CSAM cannot determine if it is "forbidden content".
Hence why I believe the real intent is not "you know what", as it is so easy to bypass, but it simply being a Trojan horse for more spying by the US government.
But history will tell us if CSAM was a good decision or not, when a Snowden 2.0 will tell us what the US government is doing now.
My understanding was it's only on your device if you're using an iCloud backup with your photo library. Am I wrong or do you not have the option to not use iCloud backup with your photos app.
I already said that. But this isn’t some hidden agenda like a back door. By Apple announcing it, they made the system more transparent than what Snowden uncovered, which was secret government spying.
I understand your distrust but I don’t believe hashing would benefit the government because it searches for a specific file. Intelligence doesn’t work like that, searching for links on evidence does, specifically for what it’s been designed. I don’t know how it would help government when government already have the ability to spy on peoples phones/computers.
Anyway, feel free to believe what you like. I’ll calibrate my conspiracy radar to be based on evidence. Good thing about belief is it doesn’t have to be based on reality.
I can understand it. Before lying, it is better to remain silent. Apple can't reinvent the world at this point either. However, it should not defocus (CSAM), but rather say nothing at all *if it is forced to do something*.
Alina Kabayeva (Национальная Медиа Группа, НМГ & Putin's bedmate) will not be so stupid to synch her library in the cloud. In this respect, all the gov intension is a pointless approach, the hard targets are never such stupid.
And people with disgusting sex fantasies anyway, the few non-influential people at CSAM know that anyway.
www.eff.org
Alina Kabayeva (Национальная Медиа Группа, НМГ & Putin's bedmate) will not be so stupid to synch her library in the cloud. In this respect, all the gov intension is a pointless approach, the hard targets are never such stupid.
And people with disgusting sex fantasies anyway, the few non-influential people at CSAM know that anyway.
Apple's Plan to "Think Different" About Encryption Opens a Backdoor to Your Private Life
Apple has announced impending changes to its operating systems that include new “protections for children” features in iCloud and iMessage. If you’ve spent any time following the Crypto Wars, you know what this means: Apple is planning to build a backdoor into its data storage system and its...
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Apple will always do what’s right for customers. Ignoring this serious and disturbing problem will never be an option for Apple.
Those who are doing nothing wrong have nothing to fear.
This is about protecting young children from disgusting abuse.
Those who are doing nothing wrong have nothing to fear.
This is about protecting young children from disgusting abuse.
Ah the self appointed marketing reserve is on the move. Although in this case, Apple woke up and seems to have a change of mind by not doing anything anymore and attempting to wait it out.
Totally. And people would prefer to protect their rights of a perceived breach of trust (with no facts to back it up) than the rights of children we know are being hurt. Shows exactly where there mind is at. Selfish and disgusting Imo.
I can accept (another!) safe haven for a few sick bastards to store abuse pictures. What I cannot accept is a North Korea-style surveillance state than many law-enforcement types are longing for.
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That's a pretty simple approach. So you will never decide for or against the Russian war of aggression, because in the war there is no more clear knowledge, that is a problem with the war (besides all the suffering).
Maybe some life experience also helps to sort things in more clearly.
I am not a friend of conspiracy theories. Even with little credible facts (and I mean facts) one wants to form an opinion. That is humankind.
Sometimes then a gained insight can completely destroy ones opinion of the day. This is also how science works, and it is a great tool to unite mankind.
That's what makes life so interesting, truth, even though it may have become rare, is still the most fragile and powerful weapon. That's why breaking it up is the favorite pastime of conspiracy theorists.
And in the areas where it is professionally eliminated (secret services), it just doesn't work so easily anymore.
However, CSAM's technical destruction capabilities for privacy (especially beyond kinky sex), should not be downplayed. And so far, almost every invented weapon has been brought to mankind by power seekers.
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That’s not how end to end encryption works. The whole reason for end to end encryption is to keep the middle man transmitting the data from seeing it.
All the self appointed heros act like this is a solution to abuse. It does nothing to stop it from happening. This finds well known circulated images of abuse that happened years ago. It's great for busting some dude with a large collection. Maybe you get lucky and find a content creator....but that's unlikely. If this did something real I would think more of it, but it's just to catch low hanging fruit so someone can gain some political kudos when they find a scumbag. The abuse will still happen and this does nothing to prevent it. People that make this stuff will just use other methods now that it's public knowledge. Meanwhile I'm losing battery life and privacy for a placebo product that gives Apple some positive marketing to sell more phones. You want to scan images uploaded to iCloud, fine, I have no expectation of privacy there....but on my device....pound sand.
I’m not sure how this relates to hashes, but I assuming you're saying the first casualty of war is the truth, in which case in relation to Russia, outside of the politics, it is clear Russia has transgressed illegally on Ukraine soil. So I agree that truth can be eroded, and belief becomes a system not actually based on facts but a persons perceptions. And I think that’s what’s happening here.
With regard to the Government, I have absolutely acknowledged that governments off all types spy on each other and their own people. I just don’t see how a hash file can help a government spy on its people other than for gaining evidence in relation to a crime, for which this is specifically designed. They can already listen in if they wish, they can surveil us in many ways, but searching for a file on a phone for a file they already have is hardly a useful way to gain intelligence.
This is an evidence tool, and unless someone can come up with a reasonable hypothesis as to what they can do with a hash that could hurt the individual, I’ll remain stoic to the ideal that paedophilia and child exploitation is worse than any perceived threat that the government could do, to find I have a publicly available manifesto of the Unabomber (which I deleted because he is a right wing nut job). So it becomes a choice to take a stand based on your risk assessment of the likelihood of the damage it could cause and compare it to the good it would do.
If the fact that people believe it is an intrusion of someone’s rights, then I'm sorry because our rights, philosophically, and actual, are dependent of the rights given by the laws. That’s actually the way it is. People might not like it.
Putting your head in the sand and giving up is not the answer. It’s a tool that could very well provide a link to organised groups. They already do it other ways and this is no different. Why would you want to give up on find these sick perverts?
Of course, there are also countries in this world that like to fill up "their CSAM" hashes with their own (political) targets to see where and with whom they are photographed.
Such attempt will be easy to blackmail. So their opponents might also be quickly localized and more easily destroyed.
Weighing this always fictional (because never recognizable) killing potential against that of dirty porn is the difficult problem.
Yes, it also makes me angry that the evil of child pornography can not be eradicated. But unfortunately not with CSAM either.
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I’m not in favor of this method of scanning my iPhone and treating me like a criminal instead of as a customer. However, there is an argument to be made that each time one of these images is viewed (no matter how old it is), the individual in the image is re-victimized and exploited. In other words, the person in the photo is being violated every time it is viewed.
That’s based on the assumption they already have those photos to compare it to. Otherwise we’re talking Ai facial recognition which is an entirely different proposition to hashes. In Australia (I assume you’re not here) recently had a situation where large department stores were using facial recognition in their stores for targeted marketing. And that’s an entirely different field of worry.
Yes, that is something else so far.
I (European) had not heard of this before. How is the Australian community reacting to this?
They’re too busy watching the Amazing Race to be concerned. 😂. Immediate outrage, an apology from the stores.
There was a new reality show on called Hunted where police/army intel track and find people using surveillance, phone tracking, vehicle gps tracking etc. Considering it’s just tv, I can only imagine the rest. Do a Wikipedia on Pine Gap. Governments have serious capablities, thus I’m not concerned about hashes, which from my history in law enforcement, I support. We cannot stop them with a bit of outrage.
And some inventions, like the internet, brought to mankind to improve their lot, can be usurped by power seekers.
Puhlease; "tin foil hats" is the go-to argument of people who overtrust the government when they can't defend against a good argument. Governments around the world, ours included, have indeed locked up the innocent on just about any charge you can imagine.
And you're nowhere nearly as autonomous in your job as you might think. You can bet your badge and gun that you DO INDEED HAVE TIME to "chase up" ANYTHING your commanding officer commands you to chase up. And he works for the Chief. Or he IS the Chief. And he has people to please; people who are not voters.
I respect what you did for 40 years, but in this kind of area, you were/are still a minion. If the Chief wants you "chasing up" Pokemon characters in evidence lockup for the next week, that's what you'll be doing, and you'll do it without nary a peep of complaining to the brass.
YOU KNOW that there are cops who won't tell their CO he's full of scat. That would just get you put behind a desk. Or worse yet, get you framed for something YOU did not do, like take bribes from local business owners. That's a super easy frame, especially for a few of your fellow officers with, shall we say, "flexible morals".
Well it's about time you understand somebody's distrust. But then you immediately discount it by saying "but blah blah blah".
Jeesh, it is just too difficult to get through to some people. You overtrust the government; that fact is plain. Probably partly because you are PART of the government.
You need to learn how bugs and false positives work.
My argument for why this should never be implemented is quite simple. Several countries around the globe is moving closer and closer to fascism. The U.S, Hungary and Russia chief among them. Let’s say this get implemented and we see the black clouds of fascism once again engulf Europe and the U.S as well, a scenario not that far away. How long before Apple is forced by governments to flag pictures of demonstrations and known people fighting against the government?
This is correct. Before Apple sends a report to law enforcement, it needs a human to verify. I built an auto-grader for submitted programs for my company's certification program. It will automatically detect functionally identical submissions. It does flag them, but a permanent ban must come from a human that verifies the submissions are functionally identical.
Is it perfect? No. It has an error rate of about 0.5% based on historical submissions. That's pretty low but it ain't zero. I can't go and have the auto-grader automatically report this person back to their supervisor saying they copied from someone else if I'm only 99.5% certain. I need to be 100% certain.
In this case for CSAM images, due to resizing, cropping, etc., any "fingerprints" they generate for each file will have a certain amount of error. Will it be 100%? No. That's why humans must verify before reporting to law enforcement.