Apple Reportedly Shifted Billions of Dollars to Small Island of Jersey Amid Tax Crackdown [Updated]

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by MacRumors, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. MacRumors macrumors bot


    Apr 12, 2001

    Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its controversial Irish tax structure by moving the majority of its offshore cash holdings to the small island of Jersey, a self-governed territory with loose ties to the United Kingdom, according to leaked financial documents obtained by The New York Times and BBC.

    The island of Jersey via its Chamber of Commerce

    The so-called Paradise Papers, primarily sourced from offshore tax law firm Appleby, reveal that Apple's two key Irish subsidiaries were managed from Appleby's office in Jersey from 2015 until early 2016. Apple chose Jersey after exploring several potential tax havens, such as Bermuda and the Cayman Islands.

    Apple said it made regulators in the United States and Ireland, and the European Commission, aware about the reorganization of its Irish subsidiaries, and added that the changes haven't reduced its tax bill.

    "The changes we made did not reduce our tax payments in any country," an Apple spokesperson told The New York Times. "At Apple we follow the laws, and if the system changes we will comply. We strongly support efforts from the global community toward comprehensive international tax reform and a far simpler system."

    Apple turned to Jersey after European officials began to crack down on the so-called "Double Irish" tax structure Apple had exploited.

    The "Double Irish" tax loophole allows for multinational corporations to funnel revenue through an Irish subsidiary, which in turn sends that money to another Irish subsidiary that has residency in a tax haven. In a nutshell, the practice has enabled Apple to save billions of dollars in taxes around the world.

    The European Commission found Apple paid between 0.005 percent and 1 percent in taxes in Ireland from 2003 through 2014, compared to the country's headline 12.5 percent corporate tax rate. Apple CEO Tim Cook said the Commission's ruling against Apple was "total political crap" and that the tax rates were a "false number."

    When questioned by the United States Senate investigative subcommittee in 2013, Cook said "we pay all the taxes we owe." He added that Apple doesn't "stash money on some Caribbean island."

    While that was true at the time, it's clear Apple was exploring similar options as part of its tax minimization efforts.

    "This is how it usually works: You close one tax shelter, and something else opens up," said Reuven Avi-Yonah, director of the international tax program at the University of Michigan Law School. "It just goes on endlessly."

    Cook has made it clear that Apple is willing to repatriate some of its offshore cash holdings into the United States, but he recently said tax reform is "sorely needed" first. U.S. President Donald Trump has proposed lowering the headline corporate tax rate to 20 percent, down from 35 percent currently.

    Update: Apple this afternoon shared a press release entitled "The facts about Apple's tax payments," which has been written in response to today's reports. Apple says there are several inaccuracies being circulated and it is aiming to correct them.
    The release also provides details Apple has reiterated multiple times in the past, such as its position as the largest taxpayer in the world and the fact that it holds overseas cash because that's where the majority of its products are sold. Apple also again says that comprehensive international tax reform "is essential" and that it continues to advocate for a simplification of the tax code.

    Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

    Article Link: Apple Reportedly Shifted Billions of Dollars to Small Island of Jersey Amid Tax Crackdown [Updated]
  2. CerebralX macrumors 6502


    Jun 28, 2013
    Looking for a place of freedom and rationality
  3. Z400Racer37 macrumors 6502a

    Feb 7, 2011
    Politicians are so stupid. Stop demonizing and penalizing companies for the sin of engaging in a productive, and even worse, profitable action, and then expecting to keep the fruits of these productive efforts.

    On one hand, people say they have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders to maximize value, and on the other, they say that Apple owes the people something, because Apple produced and sold a value, and the people didn't.

    And they hold both views with perfect comfort. Ridiculous.
  4. macfacts macrumors 68030


    Oct 7, 2012
    Everyone would do the same but can't due to not everyone has their belongings in the form of intellectual property or patents. Most people own physical things like land or homes or cars. It is much easier to sign a document and move all your IP to a different country.
  5. itsmilo macrumors 68020


    Sep 15, 2016
    meanwhile i am being forced to pay 8 % church tax from my salary every month LOL
  6. MarcBook macrumors 6502a


    Jul 13, 2008
    United Kingdom
    Quite funny seeing our little island featured in big Apple-related news. Can't say I'm surprised, though. It's a very well-known tax haven and has been for ages.
  7. kildraik macrumors 6502a


    May 7, 2006
    Colorado Rockies
    Protect your nest.

    Following the story as it unfolds and is written on elsewhere, their doing what’s in their best interest, and because of current US policy, their best interest is to keep it offshore.
  8. Dave245 macrumors 603


    Sep 15, 2013
  9. gigapocket1 macrumors 65816

    Mar 15, 2009
    20% is still a lot more than 1% lol..
    --- Post Merged, Nov 6, 2017 ---
    America just needs to do a 1 day tax holiday.. Even at 5%.. companies would move loads of cash over to the United States..
  10. Naraxus macrumors 6502a


    Oct 13, 2016
    Surprise surprise. Apple dodging paying its fair share in taxes as usual. This company really needs to be put to the fire for stunts like this.
  11. Falhófnir macrumors 68020


    Aug 19, 2017
    I blame them. If companies paid fair taxes then western democracies wouldn’t be on their knees with debt. Just think of it this way; every $1 Apple or Google or Amazon hoards in these accounts is $1 more that you and your fellow taxpayers have to find every year...
  12. alex00100 macrumors 6502

    Mar 17, 2011
    Moscow, Russia
    I blame the governments. If I was a king of some country, I'd make it so that if you made some money in my country you pay less taxes if you reinvest it here, and not keep in a bank or move elsewhere.
  13. Kabeyun macrumors 68000


    Mar 27, 2004
    Eastern USA
    Gotta say that this activity is just one of a myriad of examples of something that is technically legal but doesn’t seem right. Micro-trading. Credit stock swaps. Shell corporaions. The 2008 crash is a case study in such stuff. It’s all so far beyond the common man and how the market was meant to serve us. And as Larry the Liquidator said in Other People’s Money, “They can pass all the laws they want. All they can do is change the rules. They can never stop the game. I don’t go away. I adapt.”
  14. SteveW928 macrumors 65816


    May 28, 2010
    Victoria, B.C. Canada
    Sure, but I wouldn't then turn around and mislead/lie about it for PR reasons.

    They are paying their fair share... according to the messed up tax laws. And Western democracies are 'on their knees with debt' because they are corrupt and the people aren't holding them accountable (even though they have the mechanism to do so).
  15. Plutonius macrumors 604


    Feb 22, 2003
    New Hampshire, USA
    Countries could get twice as much money and still be in debt. It's a spending problem by these countries.
  16. deany, Nov 6, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017

    deany macrumors 68030


    Sep 16, 2012
    North Wales
    If normal folks like you and I didn't pay taxes there would be Civil War.
    Apple are in effect supporting unrest destabilising Society it's Disgusting.
  17. barkomatic macrumors 68040

    Aug 8, 2008
    Apple would not exist were it not for the opportunity and skill they found in the United States. I pay one third of my salary in taxes so there is absolutely no reason Apple can't pay even 15%.
  18. fabriciom macrumors 6502


    Feb 17, 2008
    Madrid, España
    Hilarious how everyone approves yet they pay their taxes.
  19. shplock macrumors regular

    Dec 25, 2015
    Somewhere in a Galaxy far far away
    My answer to that is simple...Break the game! Then they can adapt as much as they want and it still means they lose.
    Or to put it another as Heath Ledger's Joker did in Batman and turn systems on themselves only without the death and violence.
  20. calzon65 macrumors 6502a


    Jul 16, 2008
    Apple is using the law, if lawmakers are not smart enough to create comprehensive tax laws, it's their fault not Apple's, however ...

    Apple loves to paint itself as a "champion of goodness", a moral, caring, sensitive company ... in reality, they are as greedy and crafty as any other company, but they have the world convinced otherwise. Case in point, ask a young person who is the more evil/greedy company, Apple or Exxon, Apple or IBM, or Apple or Boeing. I bet every time the person would say Apple is not a greedy company, they have all those young, cool, hip, long hair, tattooed employees at their stores who wear cool Apple t-shirts and say dude a lot.

    It's all crap, Apple price gouges its customers for a much as they can get away with and then they spend millions on tax lawyers and accountants to exploit every loophole they can find. All this while their public relations department convinces the world of their so-called altruism.
  21. sdwaltz macrumors 6502a

    Apr 29, 2015
    Beautifully done, Apple. Beautifully done.

    Remember: if the United States' corporate tax laws weren't so ass-backwards, companies wouldn't be forced to do this.
  22. Jimmy Bubbles macrumors 6502

    Jimmy Bubbles

    Jul 10, 2008
    Nashville, TN
    I'm just saying: can I move my profits to that island to avoid taxes? If not, this country would be able to fund and do a lot more and pay our debts if these companies paid their taxes due.
  23. HJM.NL macrumors 65816


    Jul 25, 2016
    It smells and doesn’t fit a company who’s ceo teaches the world about fair trading, climate neutral producing and gender neutral opinions.

    That said... when money is in the picture I see more strange things happening.
  24. Jimmy Bubbles macrumors 6502

    Jimmy Bubbles

    Jul 10, 2008
    Nashville, TN
    But it isn't JUST the US. This is happening worldwide. Did you not see the drop of The Paradise Papers??
  25. deany, Nov 6, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017

    deany macrumors 68030


    Sep 16, 2012
    North Wales
    They should be setting an example of how to do things Right. They don't deserve to be held is such reverence.

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