Apple Requests Sanctions Against Samsung Delivering Default Victory in Design Patent Case

[AidenShaw]

Apple is so scared that the jury will find out about the F700. Shows you how weak their case really is.

Yes, weak.

"Obvious" patents with plenty of "prior art".

...and vague "designs" which were already on the market before Apple claimed to have "innovated" them.

On the bright side, Apple's absurd claims may finally trigger a reform of the "broken" software patent system. And, ironically, Apple will be one of the biggest losers if that happens.

Steve would have been smarter.

 

[KnightWRX]

That may be the case, but the judge has reaffirmed her decision at least three times already. Going back and asking the judge another time isn't going to change the answer. The place to complain about it is the appellate court if Samsung loses, and that's where Samsung should make its argument.

Did you read Quinn's statement about the evidence "leak" (public evidence available in public court filings isn't "leaked" so much as pointed to for the media to look at instead of ignoring it. It was already out there) ?

Groklaw has the integrity of it. Fascinating how he justifies it, it's going to be interesting to see how Koh reacts to her own words on the matter.

 

[KPOM]

No but it is setting up a easy case for an appeal. The judge should of known that he was handing samsung a slam dunk appeal. Samsung wins they walk away Apple looses more crapents. Samsung losses it gets appealed.

The judge seems very bais.

Not necessarily. Samsung had a year to get the evidence in. If they held back on evidence it's their problem, not Judge Lucy Koh's or Apple's. It isn't as if Samsung didn't know that it was developing the F700 in 2006. Why did they delay making it available? Did someone screw up, or did they withhold it so that Apple would build its case without knowledge of the device (or at least without knowledge that Samsung was planning to claim it as prior art)?

Judge Koh first denied Apple an injunction on sales of the Galaxy Nexus and Galaxy Tab. She didn't grant the injunction until she was first overruled by the appellate court.

 

[faroZ06]

Hmmm. It's interesting that you would dislike childish behavior on this board and yet engage in it "for kicks" on another. That's pretty telling.

Yes, it is.

 

[KPOM]

Did you read Quinn's statement about the evidence "leak" (public evidence available in public court filings isn't "leaked" so much as pointed to for the media to look at instead of ignoring it. It was already out there) ?

Groklaw has the integrity of it. Fascinating how he justifies it, it's going to be interesting to see how Koh reacts to her own words on the matter.

I did look at the article. However, if Quinn is abiding by the letter but not the spirit of the ruling, Koh may find a way around it. There's a difference between making documents public, and sending out a press release (I know, Quinn says it wasn't a "press release") and calling the judge an idiot isn't exactly going to endear you to her if they have an objection during the trial.

They could have made the evidence available to the press without the gratuitous comments. Clearly they are trying to try the case in the court of public opinion, which could backfire. On the surface, I think most people would be sympathetic to Samsung's case. People don't quite "get" the idea behind design patents, and might be inclined to buy the notion that Apple is just trying to use the courts rather than compete. Skirting the rules of the court might change that, though.

I'm not a lawyer, and even if I were, IP law is a very specialized area of the law. I don't know whether or not Apple has a case. However, Samsung seems to be acting rather irrationally here. They are winning in the court of public opinion already. People are buying 2 of their smartphones for every 1 that Apple sells. They don't need these kinds of stunts. The judge made her ruling, and the place to complain about it is at the appellate court, not AllThingsD.

 

[KnightWRX]

Clearly they are trying to try the case in the court of public opinion, which could backfire.

Something you must admit, and is pretty evident on this site, Apple has been doing from day 1. Look at all the people here convinced of "copying" and "stealing" and "Eric Schmidt stole from Apple!" with complete disregard for facts.

As stated by many, Quinn knows what he's doing. If anything, he's setting up the appeal.

 

[charlituna]

what was the reason?

They tried to submit evidence that could easily be found months ago after the Discovery period was over and the jury was even selected.

Frankly I doubt that the judge will just summary against Samsung over this. Fine them, set the whole thing out to the jury like the evidence thing will be and allow for higher damages if Apple wins seems more likely.

 

[KPOM]

Yes, weak.

"Obvious" patents with plenty of "prior art".

...and vague "designs" which were already on the market before Apple claimed to have "innovated" them.

On the bright side, Apple's absurd claims may finally trigger a reform of the "broken" software patent system. And, ironically, Apple will be one of the biggest losers if that happens.

Steve would have been smarter.

Not necessarily. The F700 isn't the strongest evidence out there. It has a physical keyboard, a resistive touch screen, and doesn't have the same icon layout as later Samsung phones that from a distance of about 12 inches look exactly like the iPhone.

It's entirely possible that the jury, without the F700 evidence, rules that Samsung didn't do anything illegal. Samsung had a year to get the F700 entered into evidence. One might argue that maybe they thought their case was weak, so they withheld evidence about its design cycle until late in the game.

 

[charlituna]

Lawyers often ask for things they know they aren't going to get. If they failed to ask, they could be blamed later for not doing the utmost for their client.

Sometimes they can even use the rejection to get an appeal. Depending on the issue

 

[KPOM]

They tried to submit evidence that could easily be found months ago after the Discovery period was over and the jury was even selected.

Frankly I doubt that the judge will just summary against Samsung over this. Fine them, set the whole thing out to the jury like the evidence thing will be and allow for higher damages if Apple wins seems more likely.

You are probably right. However, any lawyer worth his salt is going to at least request a summary judgment. It's a few hours of work by a junior associate who's "only" paid about $175,000/year (vs. the partners in the 7 figures), tops. If 1 in 100 of them succeed, it's worth the effort.

 

[charlituna]

This whole brouhaha makes our legal system look like it lacks common sense.

AFAIK, all the info was public even before the jury got seated. Apple just didn't want it allowed to be legally considered.

.

Which is why it was rightly refused for last minute submission

 

[rjohnstone]

They tried to submit evidence that could easily be found months ago after the Discovery period was over and the jury was even selected.

Frankly I doubt that the judge will just summary against Samsung over this. Fine them, set the whole thing out to the jury like the evidence thing will be and allow for higher damages if Apple wins seems more likely.

Wrong... they submitted it LATE in the discovery period, not after it was over.
The judge could have still allowed it by granting Apple more time to review the new documents.
It's obvious she wants a fast trial as she knows it will end up in applet court anyway.

Oh and the jury wasn't seated until Monday.

 

[KPOM]

Sometimes they can even use the rejection to get an appeal. Depending on the issue

Exactly. Arguably, if a lawyer refuses to ask for a summary judgment in such a situation, he or she could be accused of not acting in the client's best interests. If Koh rules in favor of Apple, the company gets with about $10,000 in fees the same result it is seeking at trial for $1 million or so in fees.

Samsung made a bold move by releasing the information in the form of a deliberately provocative press release. It's worth a few hours of effort by Apple's lawyers to seek to end the trial (at least with respect to these 4 claims) right now with a motion.

 

[KnightWRX]

Not necessarily. The F700 isn't the strongest evidence out there. It has a physical keyboard, a resistive touch screen, and doesn't have the same icon layout as later Samsung phones that from a distance of about 12 inches look exactly like the iPhone.

And those points have what to do with the case ? Again, review the post you even replied to where I link the different patents and the Apple complaint about them. This summary judgement is about those. Keyboards, touch screen types and icon layouts of other Samsung devices have nothing to do with those patents Apple is claiming.

Heck, even Apple had first entered the F700 as an infringing device and later removed it since the history didn't match.

Get informed about the case before making bold assumptions about the competence of the lawyers and their tactics is what I say.

 

[KPOM]

Wrong... they submitted it LATE in the discovery period, not after it was over.
The judge could have still allowed it by granting Apple more time to review the new documents.
It's obvious she wants a fast trial as she knows it will end up in applet court anyway.

Oh and the jury wasn't seated until Monday.

That may be true, but nevertheless, they sat on that evidence for a year. It isn't as if it was just an e-mail or 2 that came up "late."

Given that this is a case involving the top 2 companies in smartphones in sales, revenue, and profits, no matter what the outcome it is going to be appealed. It is a very important case. This phenomena isn't unique to Apple v. Samsung. Both sides in the healthcare case took some shortcuts to get the case to SCOTUS, knowing that whatever the appellate courts decided, ultimately none of that would matter. In this case, it is unlikely to go to SCOTUS (a matter involving design patents is far less fundamental than the healthcare case), but it's perfectly reasonable for the judge and both parties to let the district court case go as quickly as possible so that the appellate courts get the case quickly.

 

[linuxcooldude]

Something you must admit, and is pretty evident on this site, Apple has been doing from day 1. Look at all the people here convinced of "copying" and "stealing" and "Eric Schmidt stole from Apple!" with complete disregard for facts.

As stated by many, Quinn knows what he's doing. If anything, he's setting up the appeal.

Depends on what you call facts. Someones opinion does not always make it fact. When I heard a lot of people claiming Samsung copied Apple I did my research and I concluded A lot of Samsung's products look too much like Apples to be a coincidence. From packaging to accessories and down to some aspects of the products themselves ( Some software included ).

 

[KPOM]

And those points have what to do with the case ? Again, review the post you even replied to where I link the different patents and the Apple complaint about them. This summary judgement is about those. Keyboards, touch screen types and icon layouts of other Samsung devices have nothing to do with those patents Apple is claiming.

Heck, even Apple had first entered the F700 as an infringing device and later removed it since the history didn't match.

Get informed about the case before making bold assumptions about the competence of the lawyers and their tactics is what I say.

Neither you nor I are American IP lawyers or judges. We are both just amateurs speculating on what a court may or may not do. My point is that Samsung, for whatever reason, waited until 11:59pm on Day 365 (figuratively) to decide that this was a critical piece of evidence, even though they must have known about its existence in April 2011 when discovery began. Had they revealed it upfront, who knows what would have happened? Maybe Apple's attorneys would have changed course and recommended that Apple settle. Maybe they'd have changed their legal arguments and claimed that the F700 wasn't sufficient to prove Samsung's case. Maybe they'd have told Apple not to waste their time and effort. We don't know and never will know.

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Depends on what you call facts. Someones opinion does not always make it fact. When I heard a lot of people claiming Samsung copied Apple I did my research and I concluded A lot of Samsung's products look too much like Apples to be a coincidence. From packaging to accessories and down to some aspects of the products themselves ( Some software included ).

What's telling is that, so far, Apple is not suing Microsoft, RIM, or Nokia. Apparently they believe that Windows Phone and BBOS are sufficiently different such that they aren't infringing on their patents.

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Something you must admit, and is pretty evident on this site, Apple has been doing from day 1. Look at all the people here convinced of "copying" and "stealing" and "Eric Schmidt stole from Apple!" with complete disregard for facts.

As stated by many, Quinn knows what he's doing. If anything, he's setting up the appeal.

I'm not so sure. Samsung has no problems selling phones in this country. Remember, people who post on MacRumors, AppleInsider, and 9to5Mac aren't exactly representative of the general public. I doubt that my mother, who bought a Galaxy S3 yesterday, even knows that any of these sites exist.

 

[KnightWRX]

Neither you nor I are American IP lawyers or judges. We are both just amateurs speculating on what a court may or may not do. My point is that Samsung, for whatever reason, waited until 11:59pm on Day 365 (figuratively) to decide that this was a critical piece of evidence,

Wait, where are you getting this ? Has as been stated, they asked the judge 4 times for it to be considered, after seeing Apple wanting to use the F700 as an infringing device, to prove it wasn't. Apple was allowed to proceed (even though they didn't) and Samsung wasn't. This happened literally *months* ago, going back to rulings made by Judge Grewal.

At least, again, inform and educate yourself. No need to be a lawyer or judge to read actual rulings and more than 1 article on the subject to learn about the real facts, not the heresay.

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I'm not so sure. Samsung has no problems selling phones in this country. Remember, people who post on MacRumors, AppleInsider, and 9to5Mac aren't exactly representative of the general public. I doubt that my mother, who bought a Galaxy S3 yesterday, even knows that any of these sites exist.

Well, it's not just MacRumors. And the judge in the UK was plenty sure when he dropped his own ruling, based on Apple going to the media over there after he ruled Samsung had not infringed their design patent.

So Apple getting told not to make offending remarks that go contrary to a judge's ruling is ok, but Samsung deserves to lose by default if they do ?

No really, you're showing bias here if anything. Read about the facts. I've corrected you quite a few times already in this thread, you're usually better than this. Why are you refusing to read the facts in this case ?

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What's telling is that, so far, Apple is not suing Microsoft, RIM, or Nokia. Apparently they believe that Windows Phone and BBOS are sufficiently different such that they aren't infringing on their patents.

They're not suing Google either. I guess Android is sufficiently different...

Again, I think you're being quite ignorant about the actual case material here.

 

[linuxcooldude]

At least, again, inform and educate yourself. No need to be a lawyer or judge to read actual rulings and more than 1 article on the subject to learn about the real facts, not the heresay.

Its easy to be an armchair lawyer, so all we can do is speculate on the actual meaning of the law and what it means or how to apply it.

I suppose if you claim to be a better armchair lawyer then the next person is only beating a straw man.

 

[KPOM]

Wait, where are you getting this ? Has as been stated, they asked the judge 4 times for it to be considered, after seeing Apple wanting to use the F700 as an infringing device, to prove it wasn't. Apple was allowed to proceed (even though they didn't) and Samsung wasn't. This happened literally *months* ago, going back to rulings made by Judge Grewal.

At least, again, inform and educate yourself. No need to

Well, it's not just MacRumors. And the judge in the UK was plenty sure when he dropped his own ruling, based on Apple going to the media over there after he ruled Samsung had not infringed their design patent.

So Apple getting told not to make offending remarks that go contrary to a judge's ruling is ok, but Samsung deserves to lose by default if they do ?

No really, you're showing bias here if anything. Read about the facts. I've corrected you quite a few times already in this thread, you're usually better than this. Why are you refusing to read the facts in this case ?

They're not suing Google either. I guess Android is sufficiently different...

Again, I think you're being quite ignorant about the actual case material here.

American courts aren't the same as UK courts, and aren't bound by their decisions. Koh herself said she has ruled the same way several times. Asking a judge over and over and over again isn't going to get her to change her answer. Let the appellate court deal with it and move on. Samsung still has a credible case even without the F700. Plus, if Apple claims at trial that the F700 infringes upon their iPhone patent, then it does open the door to cross-examination. That's probably why Apple has chosen not to make that claim.

I don't claim to have any idea how 12 jurors will rule in this case. On the one hand, it is difficult to believe that Apple could patent the rectangle or a smartphone with a grid of icons. I, myself, owned a rectangular smartphone with a grid of icons in 2002 (SE P800). On the other hand, it is pretty clear that the entire smartphone industry changed course virtually overnight once the iPhone turned out to be a hit. Having been a foreperson on a jury involving something a lot more important than a patent (a murder trial involving the fate of someone's life), I have a lot of faith that the jury will be able to evaluate the evidence fairly, and will respect their decision no matter how they rule.

As for Google, up until they bought Motorola Mobility, they weren't selling phones. By suing Android's most profitable OEM, they are making their case by proxy.

 

[AidenShaw]

Excuse me for a few minutes - have to put another bag of popcorn in the µwave.

This is fun....

 

[Rennir]

The judge is the one who allowed the information to be public.
Samsung simply re-released information that was already in the public domain per HER orders.
Samsung and Apple wanted the docs sealed. The judge said no, everything is public.
So there are no grounds for sanctions.

As for the claims of jury tainting, not gonna happen. The judge ordered the jury pool to not watch or read anything in regards to the case outside the court room. Any juror found violating the judges orders risks being dismissed.

Samsung's lead attorney is one of the best in the business. He threw Judge Koh's own statements back at her with regards to the leaked information.
Read his very clear and concise response and back by precedent.

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2012080117581118

Thanks for the link! I'm going to try to catch up on my knowledge of the suit and check out KnightWRX's links too to understand more about the patents in question...lots of reading to do in the next couple of days

But from what I've read, Samsung's lawyer really planned this out really well. I'd call his statement a home run--for good or for bad remains to be seen.

 

[Lord Appleseed]

Wherever this court is located....the judges there must facepalm whenever they hear Samsung and Apple.

 

[nanotlj]

All the funny things around this suit:

Koh denied Apple's injunction request again Samsung.
Appeal court reversed Koh's decision.
Koh issued the injunction request based on the appeal court's decision.

Koh warned samsung multiple times about sanctions.
Koh was "audibly irritated" by samsung's leak of excluded evidence to media and asked for immediate explanation from Quin.
Quin responded their leak is lawful and ethnic.
Apple requested sanctions again samsung for the evidence leak.
Koh denied apple's request based on Quin's response.

What is the purpose of the judge in this suit? Any authoritative or own opinion to show?

 

[KPOM]

But from what I've read, Samsung's lawyer really planned this out really well. I'd call his statement a home run--for good or for bad remains to be seen.

Not necessarily. Judges don't like to be insulted in a public forum. The trial is just getting started, and there could be a lot of objections that go against Samsung if she thinks they are disrespectful of her.

Plus, even before this stunt, Koh had indicated that Samsung's objection was on record for appeal. Therefore, if Apple wins this case, Samsung would have no real issues making its case on appeal.