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Most of these stores, I imagine, succeed based on services and not products. Apple's margins are tight (ie basically non existant) even with big box stores. Those "mega sales" you see from Best Buy (and I am sure others) come at a loss for the company. They are done as a loss leader, and you will notice that they generally happen at times of liquidating stock (making room for newer products) and during the holidays, where you come in and spend way more money than you should on a bunch of other things that DO make them money.

Like any business I am sure it is also vary location based. If you are selling solely apple products in a market that isn't buying enough of said producs to keep you afloat, well, bad market to be selling your goods in. I think it's disingenous to blame Apple for this completely. At the same time, they do absolutley make it harder for the little guy than some other companies.


Just curious, how does Apple "absolutely make it harder for the little guy than some other companies?" If there are some practices that are unfair and unique to Apple we should call them out on it and we can give a plug to the tech companies that are better for small businesses if you have that info.

For example, after hearing concerns, Apple has recently made some improvements for developers (increased revenue for subscriptions lasting past a year, highlighting of apps, responding to reviews, etc., which are by far the largest number, hundreds of thousands, of small businesses that they support.
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Most people don't realize that Apple makes it extremely hard to expand your business. The company I worked for that was an AASP for fifteen years had to buy out other AASP's because of Apple's strict rules on expanding. It's great if you have an AASP with no Apple stores around, those were are most profitable stores. That was like two out of the twelve or so. The margins don't change much, but they are very small. The only profit we made were from large warranty repairs. Small ones like iPhones or whole unity replacements bring in barely any money at all. If we didn't sell cellular service and set up new lines, we would barely make any profit honestly.


You've got it backwards! You frame it as though Apple is hindering AASP's when those rules on expansion are to protect the existing stores by limiting the number of Authorized Apple stores in a particular area and it is what every responsible company does, otherwise your "franchise" would be worthless if anyone else could simply expand into your territory. That's why the owners of the store you worked at had to buy other AASP's instead of simply being able to expand into those other store's territories and drive them out of business.
 
Just curious, how does Apple "absolutely make it harder for the little guy than some other companies?" If there are some practices that are unfair and unique to Apple we should call them out on it and we can give a plug to the tech companies that are better for small businesses if you have that info.

For example, after hearing concerns, Apple has recently made some improvements for developers (increased revenue for subscriptions lasting past a year, highlighting of apps, responding to reviews, etc., which are by far the largest number, hundreds of thousands, of small businesses that they support.
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You've got it backwards! You frame it as though Apple is hindering AASP's when those rules on expansion are to protect the existing stores by limiting the number of Authorized Apple stores in a particular area and it is what every responsible company does, otherwise your "franchise" would be worthless if anyone else could simply expand into your territory. That's why the owners of the store you worked at had to buy other AASP's instead of simply being able to expand into those other store's territories and drive them out of business.

In the pacific northwest, there were not many Apple store's in eastern washington where we wanted to expand. Their rules were pretty much that we could not open one or two stores, but had to open more than five at one time. It's why they went to rather purchase and buy out other AASP's instead. Especially ones that were located in different states for expansion. There are strict rules on where you can build them I.E. not in the vicinity or close to other corporate Apple store's which is fine I think.
 
I recently took in my MBP for repair into a local Simply Mac store and I had mixed feelings. Essentially, they had to hold my computer hostage for two weeks!

I had brought in the unit for a defective fan, the tech openned it up while I was there and found problems with the battery as well. But they did not have the replacement parts on hand which had to be ordered from Apple. They did not let me take home the computer during this period. When I went back to pick up the unit, I found that they did not replace the fan because their "diagnostic tool" did not find any problem with it despite a very reproducible audible noise. So they took the computer again, but this time they had to send it into Apple.

They were very kind and I appreciated having a local company that could handle it, but it did seem like my experience was hindered in part due to Apple's policy.

Sad about the state of Apple and miss Steve who wouldn't have allowed this **** in his prime.
 
I recently took in my MBP for repair into a local Simply Mac store and I had mixed feelings. Essentially, they had to hold my computer hostage for two weeks!

I had brought in the unit for a defective fan, the tech openned it up while I was there and found problems with the battery as well. But they did not have the replacement parts on hand which had to be ordered from Apple. They did not let me take home the computer during this period. When I went back to pick up the unit, I found that they did not replace the fan because their "diagnostic tool" did not find any problem with it despite a very reproducible audible noise. So they took the computer again, but this time they had to send it into Apple.

They were very kind and I appreciated having a local company that could handle it, but it did seem like my experience was hindered in part due to Apple's policy.

Sad about the state of Apple and miss Steve who wouldn't have allowed this **** in his prime.

Honestly, I find it kind of crappy the situation you ran in. As a repair tech, if we run tests and it doesn't show up on the diagnostic tool, we can't order parts. It has to have failed then it allows us to order items. I have ran into issues in the past where you know say a hard drive is gone or part, but if it passes Apple's tests, it kind of keeps your hands tied behind your back. Those tests are saved on a network so they have access to see them as well to double check. Not like you can work around it easily.

Generally, if you take the time to send a machine to the depot, they will more than likely fix the issues, but the AASP's will not make much if not little profit at all.
 
I was one the Apple Resellers that felt the pain a few years ago. It felt like a targeted effort to monopolize the "sales experience" for the customer and to increase their profits. We were lucky to make 7% margins on sales and could not offer product returns as they could, but selling Apple products was never a profit center it was a convenience for the end user. Our clients do not want to carry their computers into a mall and deal with the Apple "genius".
They eliminated the server and abandoned the pro products, stagnated the product line and then increased our sales quotas. Not easy to grow a business in those conditions.
Its sad that the community that helped keep Apple afloat in its darkest days was kicked to the curb.
 
I had one - they were head and shoulders above Apple's offerings - faster CPUs, faster video cards, more expansion slots (mine had 6 - and they were all used). They also had a much faster refresh rate.

Power Computing ate Apple's lunch. The casing wasn't as nice cosmetically but they were cheaper, faster, and generally as solid as anything Apple had. They pretty much filled every niche possible and demolished Apple's Mac sales, which is why the clone world had to die.

Since the Mac is such a small part of Apple it wouldn't hurt Apple to allow licensing again, really.
 
I bought Apple in the future call me Sir Timmy. My stock vests in proportion to yojur idiocy. The dumber you are the more I make.

Signed,

Timothy Donald Cook
 
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Robotics are, and have been, incorporated in manufacturing of all types of products worldwide. It's nothing new and especially beneficial in tasks too tedious for humans. Robotics do not obviate the need for humans oversight and do not accomplish end-to-end production. There are some tasks that humans must do. Robotics lessens employment but do not eliminate it and likely won't for a long time if ever.

I'm unsure why these jobs are deems so undesirable to you especially when there are Americans who would welcome these jobs and local production would also be more environmentally friendly if only to lessen the need to transport millions of phones from China to North America. -- Not to mention the positive economic effect a large factory can have on the local economy.
It all sounds good until you factor in the one thing China has in abundance that the US worker will not accept.

Low wage work force.
 
It all sounds good until you factor in the one thing China has in abundance that the US worker will not accept.

Low wage work force.

Weak point since Apple is on the record saying it is actively exploring U.S. manufacturing for the iPhone AND Foxconn has announced it is considering a U.S. factory (thought not necessarily for iPhones). There are other major cost aspects of production other than labor -- including regulations, something that seems to be rolled back soon based on recent pronouncements and news reports. Carrier reduced it's Mexico move, not because of labor concessions, but tax breaks. If labor was the end all and be all of manufacturing then U.S. car manufacturing wouldn't exist at all. BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Nissan, Mazad, Kia, Hyundai wouldn't be in the U.S. either. In fact BMW builds it's entire world production of it's X series SAVs, except for X1, in the U.S.
 
Sad to continue to see this. Not long Ago, Minnesota lost First Tech computer sales, which was part of the original Team Electronics chain. One of, if not the first official corporate reselles of Apple computers.

I was offered a job there several years ago. Thank god I dodged that bullet.
 
I'm wondering if these "disgruntled retailers" are similar to the CityMac in my town: Absolutely horrendous service and wanting to point the finger at big bad Apple for all their woes. I've had nothing but great experiences working directly with Apple for products and product support. In the Apple Store, online chat, phone support... it's always been great. I can't say the same about my experiences with "Apple Authorized Retails," especially with my hometown CityMac or "******Mac" as we like to call it. Horrible customer service and unknowledgeable sales staff. I'm glad some of these places are shutting down. I just hope Apple will open more of their own retail stores in their place.
 
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I'm dating myself here, but I can't help but think of the Mac Clones of the 90's. Some were pretty good. From some stories I've heard, maybe a little too good. I guess they were eating too much into Apple's profits which is why Apple didn't license Mac OS 8 to them. Of course, this is all anecdotal evidence, so take with a grain of salt.
My UMAX SUPERmac c500 was solid as a rock! 200MHz PowerPC 603ev CPU. 144MB EDO RAM. I had that 'Mac' around for 6 years before I harvested it for parts: ATi PCI graphics card, Asante PCI NIC; SCSI CD-ROM. At its EOL I had it running a patched version of Mac OS 9.2.2.

Now I have dated myself as someone who started on System 7.5.1.
 
Robotics are, and have been, incorporated in manufacturing of all types of products worldwide. It's nothing new and especially beneficial in tasks too tedious for humans. Robotics do not obviate the need for humans oversight and do not accomplish end-to-end production. There are some tasks that humans must do. Robotics lessens employment but do not eliminate it and likely won't for a long time if ever.

I'm unsure why these jobs are deems so undesirable to you especially when there are Americans who would welcome these jobs and local production would also be more environmentally friendly if only to lessen the need to transport millions of phones from China to North America. -- Not to mention the positive economic effect a large factory can have on the local economy.
Sir you cannot eliminate the shipping as majority of the components used in iPhone are not manufactured in US so it will not be environment friendly and shipping individual components will obviously cost more. Managing robots is a skilled job which requires some technical competency it is not like pure manufacturing job which can employ masses. There will be few jobs but millions of manufacturing jobs that are lost to automation.
 
My UMAX SUPERmac c500 was solid as a rock! 200MHz PowerPC 603ev CPU. 144MB EDO RAM. I had that 'Mac' around for 6 years before I harvested it for parts: ATi PCI graphics card, Asante PCI NIC; SCSI CD-ROM. At its EOL I had it running a patched version of Mac OS 9.2.2.

Now I have dated myself as someone who started on System 7.5.1.
Try 7.0 on a Mac LC. :p
 
While I did notice when working at Simply Mac that the cut Apple gave us was small (relative to some other products we sold, like Otterbox cases and such), I think Simply Mac's problem has more to do with Gamestop's ownership than something Apple changed- as noted above, other Apple resellers are thriving.

Before Gamestop bought the company, Simply Mac stores were all quite profitable- they gave a great customer experience so people kept coming back, even if the margin on Apple products wasn't all that huge. If Simply Mac/Gamestop had kept focusing on that, valued their employees more (sales goals were close to impossible to hit at that store, and even if you did you could never bring home the type of paycheck reps at phone carriers enjoy), and maybe partnered with more carriers than just AT&T (which doesn't work that well where I live anyway), their stores would likely be doing much better.

But nope, Gamestop management was too focused on making a quick buck by selling used computers (up to 5 years old) and charging silly service fees for every little thing we did. It cheapened the store, so people just skipped the place and went straight to Apple, even though it's an hour's drive away- which I can hardly blame them for.


As a former Store Manager at Gamestop. I back this post 1000%

Just take a look take a look at GameStop a quarterly earning (losses really) for the past 3 years, and you see a company that struggling to keep with the times. I give them 1 1/2 years before game stops start closing down.
 
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Weak point since Apple is on the record saying it is actively exploring U.S. manufacturing for the iPhone AND Foxconn has announced it is considering a U.S. factory (thought not necessarily for iPhones). There are other major cost aspects of production other than labor -- including regulations, something that seems to be rolled back soon based on recent pronouncements and news reports. Carrier reduced it's Mexico move, not because of labor concessions, but tax breaks. If labor was the end all and be all of manufacturing then U.S. car manufacturing wouldn't exist at all. BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Nissan, Mazad, Kia, Hyundai wouldn't be in the U.S. either. In fact BMW builds it's entire world production of it's X series SAVs, except for X1, in the U.S.
Tax cuts, lesser regulations(75% or more), might be lower minimum wage will help to achieve this. Coming to cars most of the cars are assembled as shipping a CBU is not economical and most of the assembly is automated. Still majority of the core components are sourced from else where. electronics and car manufacturing are different. size of the product and volume of the market matters!!!
 
This sounds exactly like the complaints the "authorized Mac dealers" had with Apple years ago, before Apple even had retail stores.

They've certainly been down this road before.... Apple has waffled back and forth on how receptive it is to allowing outside repair or upgrades to its products. You can even see evidence of this by the different design choices over the years - where Apple went back and forth between making machines fairly easy to open up and disassemble, and epoxying things in place, fastening lids down with tamper-resistant screws, etc.

As someone who has run my own small business doing on-site computer service and consulting for "all makes and models"? I've never thought it was wise to pursue becoming "Apple authorized" for service work. It just makes little sense to partner up with a company who directly competes with you, doing service themselves. If you need access to repair parts, it's my experience that they can almost always be obtained someplace on the Internet -- even if it means ordering from some guy on eBay.

There's a strong upside to doing it this way anyway .... far better prices on the parts, which can be passed along as savings to the client.

Anything Apple sells that's so new, you can't get your hands on parts for it without being "authorized" should really still be under the factory warranty, and not something people should be paying you to fix for them.


As I said before:

This is part of Apple's consolidation of control of its products.

ie. No one else, but Apple is allowed to service Apple products (at least according to Apple).
[doublepost=1485380326][/doublepost]I think you touched on an important point that goes for retail in general. As much as people love to try to support "the little guy"? In today's business world, it doesn't make sense for many small stores to even try to do what they do. The bigger players have the purchasing power to get prices down (and to negotiate better arrangements for return or exchange of the goods that come back to them from customers). Just because John Q. Public loves Macs, or cameras, or stereo systems, or whatever it is doesn't mean he has the money set aside to launch an effective retail store to compete.

Everyone talks about the "added value" of customer service a small shop can give you that a big one can't. But that's one of those things that sounds good in theory more than it works out in practice. If the small store is taking a hit on merchandise it buys, stocks, sells, and then has to accept returns on when a customer breaks it (or claims "it was broken like this when I opened it") ... then it won't be in business long if it keeps providing good customer service, happily returning or exchanging those things.

I saw this, first-hand, with the corner computer stores. (I used to work as a tech for a couple of them.) If you took the hard line stance with customers about returns that you NEEDED to take, to ensure you weren't just eating the full cost of each return yourself -- you angered customers and caused them to leave and badmouth you. (People would, for example, buy a new motherboard from us ... build a PC with it, and then claim it was defective in some way. Maybe it really was? But when they returned it, they OFTEN neglected to give us back everything that came in the box. Maybe a manual was missing, or some of the original packaging inside the box was gone... whatever. They expected it should be "good enough" to count as a return, but the manufacturers wouldn't let US send the stuff back for credit when it was "incomplete" in their eyes.) They tend not to pull those stunts on big chain stores due to the volume of sales involved.


It ain't easy. That's why so many of them don't last. When you're entirely dependent on one company for your survival it can be tough. I try to buy small and local/independent when it makes sense. $10-20 difference, I'll buy from the little guy depending on the item. Retail? I have an aversion to paying retail pricing. The Best Buys of the world can afford to give great deals because they aren't solely dependent on one manufacturer. I've found they're much easier to bargain with since the little guy usually doesn't have as much wiggle room.
 
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Sir you cannot eliminate the shipping as majority of the components used in iPhone are not manufactured in US so it will not be environment friendly and shipping individual components will obviously cost more. Managing robots is a skilled job which requires some technical competency it is not like pure manufacturing job which can employ masses. There will be few jobs but millions of manufacturing jobs that are lost to automation.

Typically a company builds a factory and suppliers follow. Foreign owned car factories in the U.S. use many more U.S. based parts than those in their respective Japan, Korean, and German based factories. BMW's Spartanburg plant has over 8 thousand employees and nearly 300 U.S. based suppliers. The Toyota Camry has more U.S. parts than most U.S. based makes.

But regardless, shipping millions of finished phones from China to the U.S. does have a toll on the environment. Let's not prevent shipping is minor even if it's just finished product. And robotics requires technical competency, yes. But not necessarily a college education, just trade school. Factory work has never been comprised of unskilled labor except for maybe floor sweepers. If you have ever been to a factory using robotics then you know there are plenty of humans around both monitoring the robots and also doing assembly, packaging, and quality control. Fewer jobs is not no jobs. If you want to poo-poo it because it doesn't meet your high qualification for what is a "good job," OK, but a new LEED factory is a good thing for whoever it can offer a new job too, the local economy, and the U.S.

Tax cuts, lesser regulations(75% or more), might be lower minimum wage will help to achieve this. Coming to cars most of the cars are assembled as shipping a CBU is not economical and most of the assembly is automated. Still majority of the core components are sourced from else where. electronics and car manufacturing are different. size of the product and volume of the market matters!!!

I've been to many BMW factories, all of which employ many robots, but also humans. Most manufacturing is automated -- automation has been happening since Ford invented the assembly line. So I don't understand your point there. My position is that if companies can economically and cleanly manufacture in the U.S. that is a good thing and shouldn't be debased as "low level." There are a lot of unemployed people out there who would gladly undergo training to take on a job in an Apple factory. Why look down on this? Carrier has reconsidered. GM has, and now Apple is. I guess they are irrational.
 
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I'm wondering if these "disgruntled retailers" are similar to the CityMac in my town: Absolutely horrendous service and wanting to point the finger at big bad Apple for all their woes. I've had nothing but great experiences working directly with Apple for products and product support. In the Apple Store, online chat, phone support... it's always been great. I can't say the same about my experiences with "Apple Authorized Retails," especially with my hometown CityMac or "******Mac" as we like to call it. Horrible customer service and unknowledgeable sales staff. I'm glad some of these places are shutting down. I just hope Apple will open more of their own retail stores in their place.


******Mac lol I don't think I have ever heard anyone call that company that. I believe in that area there was only CityMac, and Simply Mac. I hope you got a survey emailed to you and filled it out to complain how bad your service was. If AASP's get many bad reviews it could get their license taken away. They get bonus and funding based off their reviews, especially for the service department. If they are still around though, more than likely other people may not have had as many bad experiences, or just don't report them.

My current company deals with them and there is such turn over there. I can see why maybe you didn't have a good experience.
 
Just curious, how does Apple "absolutely make it harder for the little guy than some other companies?" If there are some practices that are unfair and unique to Apple we should call them out on it and we can give a plug to the tech companies that are better for small businesses if you have that info.

For example, after hearing concerns, Apple has recently made some improvements for developers (increased revenue for subscriptions lasting past a year, highlighting of apps, responding to reviews, etc., which are by far the largest number, hundreds of thousands, of small businesses that they support.
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You've got it backwards! You frame it as though Apple is hindering AASP's when those rules on expansion are to protect the existing stores by limiting the number of Authorized Apple stores in a particular area and it is what every responsible company does, otherwise your "franchise" would be worthless if anyone else could simply expand into your territory. That's why the owners of the store you worked at had to buy other AASP's instead of simply being able to expand into those other store's territories and drive them out of business.
Through margins. A big box store can absorb the non existent margins without issue. The little guy can't really do that.

I'm not calling it unfair. I specifically didn't use that term. Business is business. But other manufacturers (not all) of similar goods do indeed allow for more profit. You really need to take all of what I said in my post, and not just that one sentence, in order to find the context.
 
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"In other words, while the margins did not change overall, resellers are now forced to pay more upfront for Apple products to sell, which restricts cash flow that could otherwise be used for day-to-day operations, employee wages, and other expenses. For smaller resellers, the change can be particularly burdensome."

If this is true, then that would hint re-sellers *decided* to close, and not Apple closing them down.. I would think APP store actually want to be in this business.

It could explain why Apple stores in shopping centers survive while places like Netbyte closed in allot of areas.
 
The biggest problems I have ever had with AASP's is that they seam to always promise something that Apple can't deliver. For instance I went into the school it desk which was apple authorized about trackpad issues with my MacBook Pro and and after going there six different times the IT desk manager told me to go into the local apple store and that he had already setup for the apple store to replace my computer free of charge. I got to the apple store and they actually showed me the repair history for my computer that showed that five out of the six times I went to the IT desk at my school no repairs what so ever were done. They reinstalled the operating system five different times, each time telling me they had replace the trackpad and the sixth time they replaced the battery which isn't going to even effect the trackpad. Needless to say the apple employee I talked to took detailed notes not only on what the problem was but also what the school said they did versus what they actually did. I got my computer which was far outside the warranty fixed for free because the school never did what they said they were going to do and ever since I haven't had issues with my mac. The school said they had done over two grand worth or repairs on my mac which is why apple would replace for free, needless to say the only money spent was one hundred thirty dollars for a battery and they lied every step of the way. I truly don't think these guys understand apple can see everything they do and can call them on their BS. Needless to say I will only take my mac to apple directly now.
 
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