Apple Restructures Sales Team in India Amid Sluggish Growth

[macintoshmac]

Do Indians "perceive value" that differently from other people in the world?

Excluding U.S. and Canada, the iPhone X sells for about US$1,200 in every other G20 country whether it's China, South Korea, or Mexico.

India has the lowest PPP GDP out of the G20 countries. Either Indians are extremely unique in their perception of value, or many are struggling to meet even basic necessities. In other words, affordability is a big problem.

Like I said, they don't see value in Apple's offerings when all their needs are met in other brands. Those who need more and those who like the Apple ecosystem, use it.

Smartphone use in India is 95% for internet browsing and social media. The remaining 5% is phone calls and candy crush and such games that will run just fine on any decent $100 phone. This is in contrast with developed nations where things like Siri, Maps, geofence and smartphone controlled lighting and home access, etc. are used.

For maps nothing beats Google Maps in India. No one uses virtual assistants here. A lot of what Apple offers in developed nations has no value here. We don't have Apple Pay. We don't have doctors and institutions who could use Medical ID.

Before just simply blaming on affordability, understand the demographic and the infrastructure. An iPhone is just another phone with a 'better build quality and some better things' here. A lifestyle product.

In developed nations, an iPhone literally offers features that make life easier.

 

[milkrocket]

Like I said, they don't see value in Apple's offerings when all their needs are met in other brands. Those who need more and those who like the Apple ecosystem, use it.

Smartphone use in India is 95% for internet browsing and social media. The remaining 5% is phone calls and candy crush and such games that will run just fine on any decent $100 phone. This is in contrast with developed nations where things like Siri, Maps, geofence and smartphone controlled lighting and home access, etc. are used.

For maps nothing beats Google Maps in India. No one uses virtual assistants here. A lot of what Apple offers in developed nations has no value here. We don't have Apple Pay. We don't have doctors and institutions who could use Medical ID.

Before just simply blaming on affordability, understand the demographic and the infrastructure. An iPhone is just another phone with a 'better build quality and some better things' here. A lifestyle product.

In developed nations, an iPhone literally offers features that make life easier.

Exactly!!! Most Indians will spend $1000+ on the latest Samsung phone, coz everyone uses & understands Android. Most of them consider iPhones overpriced and wayyy too locked down. We are not a tech-heavy country and for most the Phone is the single piece of tech they use.

With the locked down, mac first stance that Apple has with the iPhone, there is no chance it has of surviving in India. The rich people who can afford it, are unable to get it working with their Windows-based PCs. Most tech people thy approach have Androids and as such will tell 'em that the iPhone is useless (primarily because they themselves have never used a mac or an iPhone)

And Finally, yes due to the value of the Rupee vs the Dollar, most of us see no value in paying such high prices for a phone of which half the features donot work for us.

Have any of you even tried Siri with an Indian Accent? Or used Apple Maps (even in a city like Mumbai)?

The initial sales of iPhone were just due to the wannabes and the few Apple fanboys in India. The fanboys now opt to get the phone from abroad as they save on the Sales Taxes. I have myself imported 4 iPhone 5's from Cricket, back in the day, for all my friends.

If Apple wants to succeed in India, they need to be a lot more serious and people need a lot of education on how to use Macs & iPhones.

 

[JPack]

Exactly!!! Most Indians will spend $1000+ on the latest Samsung phone, coz everyone uses & understands Android. Most of them consider iPhones overpriced and wayyy too locked down. We are not a tech-heavy country and for most the Phone is the single piece of tech they use.

All the evidence says otherwise.

The premium smartphone market (>INR 30,000, US$ 452) contributes to 4% of the overall smartphone market in India, still in the nascent stages as the overall smartphone user base is still less mature.​

Worldwide, premium smartphones represent about 20% of shipments.

Indians are buying far fewer premium smartphones, period. This clearly due to affordability issues as most of them simply cannot afford one.
[doublepost=1531783311][/doublepost]

Like I said, they don't see value in Apple's offerings when all their needs are met in other brands. Those who need more and those who like the Apple ecosystem, use it.

Smartphone use in India is 95% for internet browsing and social media. The remaining 5% is phone calls and candy crush and such games that will run just fine on any decent $100 phone. This is in contrast with developed nations where things like Siri, Maps, geofence and smartphone controlled lighting and home access, etc. are used.

For maps nothing beats Google Maps in India. No one uses virtual assistants here. A lot of what Apple offers in developed nations has no value here. We don't have Apple Pay. We don't have doctors and institutions who could use Medical ID.

Before just simply blaming on affordability, understand the demographic and the infrastructure. An iPhone is just another phone with a 'better build quality and some better things' here. A lifestyle product.

In developed nations, an iPhone literally offers features that make life easier.

Apple has always been able to sell premium smartphones without Apple Maps, Apple Pay, or Siri. Apple didn't suddenly jump in competitiveness after introducing those features.

Whether you're talking to an American or Indian, the customer still appreciates the better photo quality, build quality, iOS interface, and security features with iPhone.

No one is buying iPhone because of life changing features. Customers are buying iPhone for the polished fit and finish of the hardware and software.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Wow that's surprising, they coveted that market for years and now they're struggling to get their phones moving ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not entirely surprising ... although recent news it shows what uphill battle Apple has had in India since 2007

The factory in Noida, on the outskirts of New Delhi, will allow Samsung to make phones at a lower cost due to its scale at a time when other phone making hubs such as China are getting more expensive, analysts tracking the sector said.

"This 50 billion-rupee investment will not only strengthen Samsung's business ties in India, it will also play a key role in India-Korea relations," Modi said in a speech in Hindi at the inauguration of the plant.

 

[milkrocket]

All the evidence says otherwise.

The premium smartphone market (>INR 30,000, US$ 452) contributes to 4% of the overall smartphone market in India, still in the nascent stages as the overall smartphone user base is still less mature.​

Worldwide, premium smartphones represent about 20% of shipments.

Indians are buying far fewer premium smartphones, period. This clearly due to affordability issues as most of them simply cannot afford one.
[doublepost=1531783311][/doublepost]

Apple has always been able to sell premium smartphones without Apple Maps, Apple Pay, or Siri. Apple didn't suddenly jump in competitiveness after introducing those features.

Whether you're talking to an American or Indian, the customer still appreciates the better photo quality, build quality, iOS interface, and security features with iPhone.

No one is buying iPhone because of life changing features. Customers are buying iPhone for the polished fit and finish of the hardware and software.

Keep telling yourself you are right!

I live in India and know the market firsthand. Ask most Indians and they will tell you that Samsung Galaxy has a better camera and has better features

 

[DeepIn2U]

Samsung and Sony doesn't manufacture their high end phones in India.. still they are priced accordingly..

Incorrect. Samsung has been assembling phones in India since 2007. Link just above I quoted.

 

[anandhts]

Incorrect. Samsung has been assembling phones in India since 2007. Link just above I quoted.

Yeah. My bad. Samsung does manufacture flagships in India

 

[DeepIn2U]

Yeah. My bad. Samsung does manufacture flagships in India

Well I’m unsure about their flagships but they do manufacture in India

 

[JPack]

Keep telling yourself you are right!

I live in India and know the market firsthand. Ask most Indians and they will tell you that Samsung Galaxy has a better camera and has better features

OK. Ignore the data.

Your hand waving arguments are convincing nobody.

 

[YumTea]

Dear Blind Die-Hard Mac fan(s),

Please listen to the folks from India who are here... they have made a lot of valid points.
Let's be honest, once you get hooked onto an Operating System unless its terrible suckie one finds it hard to move to a different OS. Apple is late to the party - they were busy trying to suck-up to the Chinese and ignored India and now the boat has sailed. There are just too many problems that Apple has been ignoring for far too long, and they have been listed above. Let me try and summarize:
1. PRICING: Apple has too much mark-up in India and has done NOTHING to compensate for Import Duty - all other vendors have ensured that their products sell at almost the same price as leading markets. the premium on Apple products makes it higher than competing products from Samsung, OnePlus 6, Xiomi, Pixel 2, etc.
2. SUPPORT: Apple support is terrible. I know a few Die-Hard Apple fans in India and they buy their Apple stuff in the US and take it back, however servicing these products in India is a HUGE PAIN - terrible service and expensive... so they bring it to US to get it fixed. How many people can afford that?
3. COMPATIBILITY: Apple products like iTunes work poorly in Windows OS. This has been going since years, and Apple has done crap to fix this. Hence the comments that the Tech geeks dont use Mac products, and dont endorse them. And the people who do buy iOS products find it hard to make them work without constant issues with the rest of the OS products. People who do get Apple products get fed-up with it.
4. OS: There was a time when iOS was amazing compared to android, however that gap has significantly narrowed. Android products that aren't loaded with any bloatware work well. Android users find it less compelling to learn a new OS.
5. OS UNIVERSE: Application Universe is pretty much the same between the two OS - let me qualify that... the big apps that most people use are available on both. The security concern with Android is lower now as people get more aware. A lot fo the new apps in India are now released first on Android... this includes new banking apps, ticketing apps, etc. And India is ahead of US in adoption of many of the new online functionality... lookup TEZ, PayTM, and many more similar apps.
6 APPS: Apps from Apple aren't HOT or compelling. In fact SIRI is terrible everywhere... and just not in India - cant compare it to Google Assistant which is way way ahead, as is Amazon (with Alexa). Google Maps are better and have a lot more details about India - this is just with the amount of focus Google has put on India compared to Apple thats busy making the next big thing... slimmer iPhone (which frankly no Apple user cares about another thinner iPhone).

With all this going on - Apple is toast. They will NEVER catch up with Google in India. And honestly the way things are going at Apple I wont be surprised if they become irrelevant by 2025. They aren't the most preferred product in the biggest markets in the world... and their product development is going downhill - the best they will do for new models is add OLED screen as standard, dual SIM, and make phone thinner... ALL YAWN worthy and not compelling enough for people to move over from Android. And on the S/W front SIRI will continue to suck, so their AI, home automation products cant be any better (cause they haven't yet even figured-our speech recognition... evident with how terrible SIRI is - forget about context, and making contextual recommendation and help). And to add to all this - Google with all its products have made it increasingly convenient for Apple users to switch to Android.

With all this, is it a surprise that Apple has abysmal sales in India? Does it really matter? perhaps its indication of the future of Apple.

 

[pratikindia]

In US and most countries, you can buy Apple products on EMI, which is still scarce in India. The service of Apple is really poor. They need to understand Indian market. In India, people think about value first.

In my opinion, affordability is not an issue now as the wage and salary has been up drastically in last few years. I see people with iPhone X in very small towns now.
[doublepost=1531801403][/doublepost]

Dear Blind Die-Hard Mac fan(s),

Please listen to the folks from India who are here... they have made a lot of valid points.
Let's be honest, once you get hooked onto an Operating System unless its terrible suckie one finds it hard to move to a different OS. Apple is late to the party - they were busy trying to suck-up to the Chinese and ignored India and now the boat has sailed. There are just too many problems that Apple has been ignoring for far too long, and they have been listed above. Let me try and summarize:
1. PRICING: Apple has too much mark-up in India and has done NOTHING to compensate for Import Duty - all other vendors have ensured that their products sell at almost the same price as leading markets. the premium on Apple products makes it higher than competing products from Samsung, OnePlus 6, Xiomi, Pixel 2, etc.
2. SUPPORT: Apple support is terrible. I know a few Die-Hard Apple fans in India and they buy their Apple stuff in the US and take it back, however servicing these products in India is a HUGE PAIN - terrible service and expensive... so they bring it to US to get it fixed. How many people can afford that?
3. COMPATIBILITY: Apple products like iTunes work poorly in Windows OS. This has been going since years, and Apple has done crap to fix this. Hence the comments that the Tech geeks dont use Mac products, and dont endorse them. And the people who do buy iOS products find it hard to make them work without constant issues with the rest of the OS products. People who do get Apple products get fed-up with it.
4. OS: There was a time when iOS was amazing compared to android, however that gap has significantly narrowed. Android products that aren't loaded with any bloatware work well. Android users find it less compelling to learn a new OS.
5. OS UNIVERSE: Application Universe is pretty much the same between the two OS - let me qualify that... the big apps that most people use are available on both. The security concern with Android is lower now as people get more aware. A lot fo the new apps in India are now released first on Android... this includes new banking apps, ticketing apps, etc. And India is ahead of US in adoption of many of the new online functionality... lookup TEZ, PayTM, and many more similar apps.
6 APPS: Apps from Apple aren't HOT or compelling. In fact SIRI is terrible everywhere... and just not in India - cant compare it to Google Assistant which is way way ahead, as is Amazon (with Alexa). Google Maps are better and have a lot more details about India - this is just with the amount of focus Google has put on India compared to Apple thats busy making the next big thing... slimmer iPhone (which frankly no Apple user cares about another thinner iPhone).

With all this going on - Apple is toast. They will NEVER catch up with Google in India. And honestly the way things are going at Apple I wont be surprised if they become irrelevant by 2025. They aren't the most preferred product in the biggest markets in the world... and their product development is going downhill - the best they will do for new models is add OLED screen as standard, dual SIM, and make phone thinner... ALL YAWN worthy and not compelling enough for people to move over from Android. And on the S/W front SIRI will continue to suck, so their AI, home automation products cant be any better (cause they haven't yet even figured-our speech recognition... evident with how terrible SIRI is - forget about context, and making contextual recommendation and help). And to add to all this - Google with all its products have made it increasingly convenient for Apple users to switch to Android.

With all this, is it a surprise that Apple has abysmal sales in India? Does it really matter? perhaps its indication of the future of Apple.

Excellent observations. All of them true.

 

[fairuz]

Lol, even in the US every second-generation Indian person I know uses Android. Don't know why.

 

[kshitijshah]

In 2017, customers in India bought:

• 127 million smartphones
• 164 million feature phones

In other words, the majority of consumers in India still aren't ready for a smartphone, much less premium smartphones from Apple.

Is 127 million a small number?
[doublepost=1531816873][/doublepost]If Google and Amazon can put their might behind India and be successful what stops Apple doing the same? The service levels are pathetic and they cant go on charging a 50% premium to their products and not invest in the eco-system in India. There are no Apple stores, Apple Pay, Usable Apple Maps, Localised Siri, No homepod despite Apple Music, No Siri on Apple TV... I can go on and on. Google has all these services running in top form and is continuously investing and improving.

Its just not about affordability. Its about getting value in what you pay for. When you see discriminatory service from Apple despite charging a premium over the world you feel cheated as an Apple customer in India. Apple is still living in the 1900s thinking India is a land of snake charmers.

IN the meanwhile Samsung put up the largest mobile manufacturing facility in the world in India to save on import taxes. Samsung hardware and design is well respected

Time to wake up - you dont invest in India and people will vote with their wallets!
[doublepost=1531817080][/doublepost]

Cause the majority is poor maybe.







Seems like a few of you didn't read the article, it clearly says import taxes are high, so you have to (partly) blame the Indian government.
You can avoid those taxes by manufacturing the product in India but that not easy for a hightech product like the iPhone, nor for other Apple products like MacBooks and the like.

Wonder why Samsung just put up the largest mobile manufacturing unit in India. If Samsung can manufacture their high end phones in India maybe its time for Apple to wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[Superhai]

I'm not Indian but have lived there, and the excitement about Apple is curiously non-existent, compared with most other countries. India as a country still love status symbols, but they seem to care more about the objects rather than brands. You surely get the status-fix by owning a smartphone, but because the brand is not so important you may as well save some rupees, and then buy a Hero Honda motorcycle with matching sunglasses to impress the ladies (or more technically the family of the ladies).
The Bollywood-celebrities are often shown in photo-shots holding an iPhone, some even touting it, but I think that for the majority of fans it is just another smartphone. India has a fairly large number of tech-savvy and people attending IIT schools and other with IT heavy curriculum, will already be deeply entrenched into the Android world. Microsoft and Google has been early in India, and also most Asian computer manufacturers have a large and long-time presence. So the companies with Android phones already have a deep understanding and network ready in India.
If you look at the "silicon valleys" around the bigger tech cities in India, you find most IT companies (including large campuses for Microsoft, Google, etc.), but rarely Apple (actually none at all except the last year). For those who wants to to career in this field, there is not much in the way of the creative direction which Apple wants to be associated with. Most are into server, engineering, support, corporate IT, and there Apple is noticably absent.
Apple has of course recently "discovered" India, but as other have said, it is a little too late, the momentum of Apple in the rest of the world was the introduction of the iPhone, but because they had nada presence in India, others filled the void. So while Apple have great state-of-the-art products, there is none of the uniqueness. You find everything in other products.
Also the concept of privacy is not so important for Indians, except for a small middle-class (which are growing) who live in gated communities, there is little expectation and understanding of private space. You go visit your neighbor at any time and usually without notice.
And lastly for the average Indian the price of the iPhone will be the same as the rest of the world, but the average salary is below 1000USD per year.

 

[justperry]

Is 127 million a small number?
[doublepost=1531816873][/doublepost]If Google and Amazon can put their might behind India and be successful what stops Apple doing the same? The service levels are pathetic and they cant go on charging a 50% premium to their products and not invest in the eco-system in India. There are no Apple stores, Apple Pay, Usable Apple Maps, Localised Siri, No homepod despite Apple Music, No Siri on Apple TV... I can go on and on. Google has all these services running in top form and is continuously investing and improving.

Its just not about affordability. Its about getting value in what you pay for. When you see discriminatory service from Apple despite charging a premium over the world you feel cheated as an Apple customer in India. Apple is still living in the 1900s thinking India is a land of snake charmers.

IN the meanwhile Samsung put up the largest mobile manufacturing facility in the world in India to save on import taxes. Samsung hardware and design is well respected

Time to wake up - you dont invest in India and people will vote with their wallets!
[doublepost=1531817080][/doublepost]
Wonder why Samsung just put up the largest mobile manufacturing unit in India. If Samsung can manufacture their high end phones in India maybe its time for Apple to wake up and smell the coffee.

As I said before, manufacturing or just assembling, makes a huge difference.

 

[Kabeyun]

Selling fewer than one million iPhone devices for a half of year in a country of over one billion prople? That needs courage.

How about an emoji joke too? Love those.

 

[JPack]

Is 127 million a small number?

127 million units sold in India. The total global smartphone shipments in 2017 was 1.55 billion units.

Out of those 127 million units, the average selling price was $157.

India simply isn't ready for Apple's premium smartphones.

The country doesn't have a single LCD manufacturing plant in operation. Yet, the government imposes heavy tariffs on imported electronic goods and wants everything made in India. Like other previous policies, the Indian government wants to run before it can crawl. All this does is place a stranglehold on local tech growth.

 

[YumTea]

127 million units sold in India. The total global smartphone shipments in 2017 was 1.55 billion units.

Out of those 127 million units, the average selling price was $157.

India simply isn't ready for Apple's premium smartphones.

The country doesn't have a single LCD manufacturing plant in operation. Yet, the government imposes heavy tariffs on imported electronic goods and wants everything made in India. Like other previous policies, the Indian government wants to run before it can crawl. All this does is place a stranglehold on local tech growth.

 

[Radon87000]

Do Indians "perceive value" that differently from other people in the world?

Excluding U.S. and Canada, the iPhone X sells for about US$1,200 in every other G20 country whether it's China, South Korea, or Mexico.

India has the lowest PPP GDP out of the G20 countries. Either Indians are extremely unique in their perception of value, or many are struggling to meet even basic necessities. In other words, affordability is a big problem.

Why will anyone buy an iPhone in India when the most basic base storage iPhone 8 costs more than a Galaxy Note 8? The iPhone X has a $400 premium over it. That's in addition to the miserable Apple services. I am not surprised Apple didn't penetrate the market. I wouldn't pay a $400 premium for the iPhone X eitherr

 

[HighRes15]

In 2017, customers in India bought:

• 127 million smartphones
• 164 million feature phones

In other words, the majority of consumers in India still aren't ready for a smartphone, much less premium smartphones from Apple.

Your conclusion has no relationship with the data presented . Your data shows that annual smartphone sales exceed the populations of most of the worlds countries. About a quarter of that is high end smartphones . About 30m high end smartphones a year is more than several European countries’ populations combined .

Take it from someone who’s actually lived there and visits there multiple times a year (me) - Apples problem isn’t the price as much as the poor sales network, after sales support, local iOS ecosystem - all of which Android is much superior at .

People pick Android by CHOICE - my dad declined a 6 plus as a gift, preferring a Nexus instead .
[doublepost=1531936280][/doublepost]

All the evidence says otherwise.

The premium smartphone market (>INR 30,000, US$ 452) contributes to 4% of the overall smartphone market in India, still in the nascent stages as the overall smartphone user base is still less mature.​

Worldwide, premium smartphones represent about 20% of shipments.

You're again wrong. You are using price of the phone as a proxy for premium character, which should be defined by feature set. There are quite a few premium smartphones that don't cost $450. The entire Xiaomi range goes for half of the Rs.30K threshold listed, and those have Snapdragon 636s that are comparable to the A9 chipset in the iPhone 6S range.

It is a fact that $900+ for an Apple phone is way overpriced for what it offers as value. Americans may be willing to pay it (heck, I'm one, and have a 7+) but in India you get laughed at when you can get a similar feature set AND a more usable ecosystem under Android for far less.

Anyone thinking the vast majority of smartphones in India are clunky ancient hand me downs that barely get the job done, has clearly not been to India recently. Go to any Indian urban area - small, medium or large, and you'll see pretty much everyone around you carrying smartphones.

Using phone prices as proxy for premium nature is a very bad idea - particularly because you can get quite a large selection of great smartphones for much less in India. It's more a testament to the US market lacking the depth of price to value, that the US notion of a premium phone is something north of $750, when you can get similar phones for a third of that in India, and in any case, the BOM of that iPhone is probably $200-250 too.
[doublepost=1531936973][/doublepost]

OK. Ignore the data.

Your hand waving arguments are convincing nobody.

With respect, you simply don't understand the data you present. You're simply confusing price for premium character. Here's the reality:
* India smartphone userbase exceeds the population of US, and annual sales exceed smartphone sales in US.
* Android ecosystem in India is far better than iOS, and that's from someone like me who has never used Android and instead uses an iPhone, iPad and Mac in US, but would never do so in India.
* Apple India sales network sucks. After sales sucks. iOS ecosystem in India is weak. iPhone prices are laughably out of sync with competition.
* For ~$200 you can get a Xiaomi cellphone with with the same generation feature set as an iPhone 6S/7 generation.
* By setting your premium threshold at more than 2x that level, you're not measuring anything useful as far as technical specifications of the phones go.

 

[JPack]

Your conclusion has no relationship with the data presented . Your data shows that annual smartphone sales exceed the populations of most of the worlds countries. About a quarter of that is high end smartphones . About 30m high end smartphones a year is more than several European countries’ populations combined.

The premium smartphone market in India is 4%. That means less than 5 million units. Not the 25% you imagine.

The premium smartphone market (>INR 30,000, US$ 452) contributes to 4% of the overall smartphone market in India, still in the nascent stages as the overall smartphone user base is still less mature.

Take it from someone who’s actually lived there and visits there multiple times a year (me) - Apples problem isn’t the price as much as the poor sales network, after sales support, local iOS ecosystem - all of which Android is much superior at .

People pick Android by CHOICE - my dad declined a 6 plus as a gift, preferring a Nexus instead .

You've lived in India, great. But you offer no tangible data.

You're again wrong. You are using price of the phone as a proxy for premium character, which should be defined by feature set. There are quite a few premium smartphones that don't cost $450. The entire Xiaomi range goes for half of the Rs.30K threshold listed, and those have Snapdragon 636s that are comparable to the A9 chipset in the iPhone 6S range.

It is a fact that $900+ for an Apple phone is way overpriced for what it offers as value. Americans may be willing to pay it (heck, I'm one, and have a 7+) but in India you get laughed at when you can get a similar feature set AND a more usable ecosystem under Android for far less.

Basically, you're saying Apple's business model for iPhone doesn't work.

It works everywhere else in the world except India?

Anyone thinking the vast majority of smartphones in India are clunky ancient hand me downs that barely get the job done, has clearly not been to India recently. Go to any Indian urban area - small, medium or large, and you'll see pretty much everyone around you carrying smartphones.

The vast majority of phones sold in India are cheap feature phones. Period.

In 2017, customers in India bought:

• 164 million feature phones
• 124 million smartphones

Not to mention India's 4G penetration is 21%. And we are on the verge of 5G.

Using phone prices as proxy for premium nature is a very bad idea - particularly because you can get quite a large selection of great smartphones for much less in India. It's more a testament to the US market lacking the depth of price to value, that the US notion of a premium phone is something north of $750, when you can get similar phones for a third of that in India, and in any case, the BOM of that iPhone is probably $200-250 too.
[doublepost=1531936973][/doublepost]
With respect, you simply don't understand the data you present. You're simply confusing price for premium character. Here's the reality:
* India smartphone userbase exceeds the population of US, and annual sales exceed smartphone sales in US.
* Android ecosystem in India is far better than iOS, and that's from someone like me who has never used Android and instead uses an iPhone, iPad and Mac in US, but would never do so in India.
* Apple India sales network sucks. After sales sucks. iOS ecosystem in India is weak. iPhone prices are laughably out of sync with competition.
* For ~$200 you can get a Xiaomi cellphone with with the same generation feature set as an iPhone 6S/7 generation.
* By setting your premium threshold at more than 2x that level, you're not measuring anything useful as far as technical specifications of the phones go.

You bring up a whole bunch of hand waving arguments that make no sense.

"iOS ecosystem in India is weak." What? Do Apple products work differently in India than the rest of the world? Do iMessage, AirDrop, AirPlay, and Handoff work different in India?

Apple's iPhone business model is about providing custom software with custom hardware to consumers. Apple's devices cost significantly more compared to Android. It has never been a linear relationship nor about technical specifications. Consumers all around the world have been willing to pay double or triple to buy iPhone.

The only difference is Indian consumers don't have the buying power to purchase iPhone or other premium phones. Some analysts predicted the growth of a middle class in India but that didn't pan out.

 

[Superhai]

The premium smartphone market in India is 4%. That means less than 5 million units. Not the 25% you imagine

Basically, you're saying Apple's business model for iPhone doesn't work.
It works everywhere else in the world except India?

The vast majority of phones sold in India are cheap feature phones. Period.

In 2017, customers in India bought:

• 164 million feature phones
• 124 million smartphones

Not to mention India's 4G penetration is 21%. And we are on the verge of 5G.

"iOS ecosystem in India is weak." What? Do Apple products work differently in India than the rest of the world? Do iMessage, AirDrop, AirPlay, and Handoff work different in India?

The only difference is Indian consumers don't have the buying power to purchase iPhone or other premium phones. Some analysts predicted the growth of a middle class in India but that didn't pan out.

I think you argue on nits here, both are right. The upper class in India, who are insanely rich, still don't prefer on average Apple. The upper middle class who have easy monetary power to buy Apple, usually don't. While the first is a small percentage but growing, the second group is fairly large but stagnated when it comes to growth. The lower middle class who growth is still high, will want to buy a smartphone, but be very conscious about economy. The rest of the population 60-70% cannot afford a premium smartphone. But a smartphone of the lower denomination have become within the reach. Smartphone sales in India is growing. They are now needed for business, especially in the so called informal sector. If you are able to, you invest in an smartphone. But feature phone is also beneficial in rural areas where electricity is very unreliable, or maybe you are not connected at all.

So where does it leave Apple. In Europe Apple will be considered like a Mercedes or BMW, rather expensive but could be worth the extra cost. In India they are more like a Ferrari or Bentley, you pay premium just to be able to show off the logo, and you may not be able to have it serviced as easy.

So what about practical value? Apple is difficult to have serviced in India, sale is also limited. What about the ecosystem, well Indians rarerly buy Macs, iPads, so the interaction is with Windows and android tablets. Social integration, everyone else use android or Windows PCs. The soft services are very skewed toward Google or locally which works much better on android and Windows.

Usually Indians buy a phone to be the only device they own connected to Internet, and also one used both for business and for private. They are also very conscious about provider costs. Both requires dual-SIM in phones, and it seem Apple suddenly discovered that this is a major competitive advantage for the other manufacturers.

So iMessage in India, well it's cool for the one other friend who owns an iPhone, but for everyone else it will work via SMS. AirDrop? Same. Handoff and AirPlay? To which device?

4G in India? Your figure is probably right when it comes to geographic coverage, but for the subscribers for the various providers, the coverage is between 50-90%. Most larger towns and cities have good coverage, the problem with 4G have more with the Indian Internet backbone which is poor.

So in short, for the majority of the Indians a feature or smartphone is crucial. Feature phone market is increasing, smartphone market is increasing. Low end smartphones have most major features as premium ones in decent quality, for almost same price as feature phones, but longer battery hours are also crucial. And feature phones are becoming smarter. For those who can afford the premium smartphones, Apple have no real advantage in the eyes of the Indians.

 

[milkrocket]

"iOS ecosystem in India is weak." What? Do Apple products work differently in India than the rest of the world? Do iMessage, AirDrop, AirPlay, and Handoff work different in India?

Apple's systems only work with each other. If you don't have other Apple devices, AirDrop is useless, Handoff is useless and so is iMessage.

On the other hand Android places no such restrictions and works very well with existing (i.e Windows) devices.

The reality is that, Apple products only work for people who "live" in the Apple-verse. The cost of everything makes it super unviable in India. Apple wanting 20$ for a simple adapter is freaking insane, at least in India, especially when a MicroUSB cable costs maybe 50-80 Cents. Our exchange rate is artificially skewed and so the value of products is not the same.

No average person is going to save up for a whole year to purchase an iPhone X. They will just buy a 200$ android and be happy.

Also, no one wants pay 700-800$ for an iPhone 6 in India. Apple doesn't seem to get that. No one wants to buy an old outdated phone that is barely supported by Apple, for like 4 times the price of an Android phone.

When you are earning 3000$ a month, 1500 for the iPhoneX is a half months salary and is very affordable. But in India the average salary is more like 800$ and that makes Apple totally not worth the money

 

[JPack]

Apple's systems only work with each other. If you don't have other Apple devices, AirDrop is useless, Handoff is useless and so is iMessage.

On the other hand Android places no such restrictions and works very well with existing (i.e Windows) devices.

The reality is that, Apple products only work for people who "live" in the Apple-verse. The cost of everything makes it super unviable in India. Apple wanting 20$ for a simple adapter is freaking insane, at least in India, especially when a MicroUSB cable costs maybe 50-80 Cents. Our exchange rate is artificially skewed and so the value of products is not the same.

No average person is going to save up for a whole year to purchase an iPhone X. They will just buy a 200$ android and be happy.

Also, no one wants pay 700-800$ for an iPhone 6 in India. Apple doesn't seem to get that. No one wants to buy an old outdated phone that is barely supported by Apple, for like 4 times the price of an Android phone.

When you are earning 3000$ a month, 1500 for the iPhoneX is a half months salary and is very affordable. But in India the average salary is more like 800$ and that makes Apple totally not worth the money

Again, the root cause is Indian consumers not having the purchasing power to buy Apple or other premium smartphones.

Don't blame the iOS ecosystem just because the majority of Indians can't buy an iPhone.
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I think you argue on nits here, both are right. The upper class in India, who are insanely rich, still don't prefer on average Apple. The upper middle class who have easy monetary power to buy Apple, usually don't. While the first is a small percentage but growing, the second group is fairly large but stagnated when it comes to growth. The lower middle class who growth is still high, will want to buy a smartphone, but be very conscious about economy. The rest of the population 60-70% cannot afford a premium smartphone. But a smartphone of the lower denomination have become within the reach. Smartphone sales in India is growing. They are now needed for business, especially in the so called informal sector. If you are able to, you invest in an smartphone. But feature phone is also beneficial in rural areas where electricity is very unreliable, or maybe you are not connected at all.

So where does it leave Apple. In Europe Apple will be considered like a Mercedes or BMW, rather expensive but could be worth the extra cost. In India they are more like a Ferrari or Bentley, you pay premium just to be able to show off the logo, and you may not be able to have it serviced as easy.

So what about practical value? Apple is difficult to have serviced in India, sale is also limited. What about the ecosystem, well Indians rarerly buy Macs, iPads, so the interaction is with Windows and android tablets. Social integration, everyone else use android or Windows PCs. The soft services are very skewed toward Google or locally which works much better on android and Windows.

Usually Indians buy a phone to be the only device they own connected to Internet, and also one used both for business and for private. They are also very conscious about provider costs. Both requires dual-SIM in phones, and it seem Apple suddenly discovered that this is a major competitive advantage for the other manufacturers.

So iMessage in India, well it's cool for the one other friend who owns an iPhone, but for everyone else it will work via SMS. AirDrop? Same. Handoff and AirPlay? To which device?

4G in India? Your figure is probably right when it comes to geographic coverage, but for the subscribers for the various providers, the coverage is between 50-90%. Most larger towns and cities have good coverage, the problem with 4G have more with the Indian Internet backbone which is poor.

So in short, for the majority of the Indians a feature or smartphone is crucial. Feature phone market is increasing, smartphone market is increasing. Low end smartphones have most major features as premium ones in decent quality, for almost same price as feature phones, but longer battery hours are also crucial. And feature phones are becoming smarter. For those who can afford the premium smartphones, Apple have no real advantage in the eyes of the Indians.

Upper class Indians are "insanely rich"? Those Indians can barely afford 2 wheeled motor vehicles.

As an example, in 2017, Mercedes-Benz sold:

• 15k vehicles in India
• 375k vehicles in U.S.
• 610k vehicles in China

Let me guess, you're about to tell me some bulls*** about how many Indians can afford a Mercedes-Benz but see no practical value in buying one.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Apple itself is a joke to Indians. No proper service for its iPhones, iPad , macs, etc. The pricing is high (iPhone 8 cost nearly $1000, entry level 15 inch macbookpro cost $3000) even though Samsung and other Androids do competitive pricing (<$1000 for high end). when my iPad Air 2 failed (couldn't charge) within 2 yrs of its lifetime, apple asked near 375$ to replace it without checking any fault. Till they take care of pricing and do proper service in India, people are not going to give a second glance at them

You think this is isolated to India only??

Here in Canada - we neighbor USA just north of the shared border and guess what ?

iPhone 8 64GB = $979CAN for the 4.7”, $1099CAN for 8+ model. The Macs yeah pricing is just about the same.