Apple Reveals How Many iPhones and iPads Are Running iOS 16 and iPadOS 16

[Killbynumbers]

I haven't updated my 12" Pro because I rarely use it. Not sure what version it's even on.

 

[I7guy]

Like I said: It might be decent, good even. It’s most likely not as good as it was on iOS 12. My 9.7-inch iPad Pro gets 10-11 hours on iOS 12. It’s decent. It’s not as good as it was on iOS 9, when it got 14.

Yep, I had a new battery installed in the max and it’s the same as it was when I first bought it. Back to a full day with my usual usage patterns.

This is a little more likely: there is a possibility that the iPhone 12 on iOS 16 is as good as it was on iOS 14. I’d have to see actual numbers, but it’s likely that it hasn’t been updated enough (yet).

There are no “actual numbers”. Older devices on perform differently, maybe not worse overall. There are no real world numbers to be had, only fake YouTube tests.

Case in point: the iPhone 8 is great on iOS 14. I tried it myself, it’s as good as it was on iOS 11 or 12. Why? It hadn’t been updated enough. It’s far worse on iOS 16. The iPhone Xʀ was like-new on iOS 13. It isn’t on iOS 16.

As I said, andecotal points here. My xs max is as good on ios 16 with the added benefit of security updates and new functionality.

I have never said “every iOS update inevitably destroys battery life on every device”.

Pretty much that is your stance. That an ios update degrades the phone.

I have said “eventually, after enough iOS updates, battery life is obliterated”. Two major versions in and it’s like-new? No problem, wait a couple more. It’ll eventually be affected.

Not starting from the iPhone X. Of course we are arguing anecdotally. There are no real world objective tests. Only fake YouTube tests.

Like I said: I hope that iPhones with large batteries prove me wrong, at least so I can say “they’re significantly impacted but totally usable”. We haven’t reached the end of the update lifespan on any large battery device. The Plus models of iPhones have been obliterated.

Not from the x on, and I postulate not the iPhone 8 Plus.

We need more recent examples.
iPads are obliterated, too.

I have the 7th gen iPad and not by any means it’s obliterated.

iOS versions have been tested, updates are worse. Like I have repeatedly stated: denying this is pointless by now.

There are no real world tests. Only fake YouTube tests that are not representative of real world usage.

Battery life is of course variable, due to a million factors, factors which you are aware of. With the same usage and the same settings, used by the same person, if updated far enough, it’ll be impacted.

Not for the iPhone X and beyond.

What is “using battery differently”? Three options:
-Battery consumption is the same for the same task on different iOS versions (this happens if the iOS version is good, i.e., if the device isn’t updated far enough).

-Battery consumption is more for the same task on different iOS versions. This always happens if updated far enough.

So YouTube on ios 16 uses more battery than YouTube on ios 12 is your claim for my xs max. Is there any proof to that?

-Battery consumption is less for the same task. This has never happened thus far.

It could be and you don’t know it. For example a bug was fixed.

Yes, that’s exactly why battery life is worse. Increased capabilities = more concurrency = worse battery life.

That is not degradation. Do more at the same time more battery power is needed. Split screen in safari on iPadOS browsing x windows almost simulataneously will use more batter than one safari window. That’s not degradation that’s a battery vs functionality trade off.

It is. Battery health is irrelevant if the device is on its original iOS version. My iPhone Xʀ on iOS 12 is extremely consistent. So much so, that I can predict screen-on time with my usage on nearly every percent with a very small margin of error. What do I mean? My iPhone Xʀ is at 2h 40 min with 90% remaining with my usage pattern with light use, it is at 5h with 70% remaining, etc. The device takes, without fail, between 70 and 80 minutes to drop from 100%. It can vary a little, but the average is there. Always. My numbers can be wrong within 10 minutes on either side.

You must do exactly the same thing on your phone and have a routine. I’m guessing most people don’t. My battery on bad lte is different than good lte is different than WiFi. Battery life watching. YouTube videos in full sun on lte is different than in the house on WiFi. A million different things affect battery life. I can predict that usage in full sunlight with bad signal leads to poor battery performance, but that’s it.

Again, battery health is irrelevant if the device is on its original iOS version.

Battery health is always relevant, because stats cited are very general and not representative of real world usage.

Yeah, it isn’t. It was an example of hopeful expectations: hopefully updated devices can eventually be as good as the 6s is on iOS 10 with an extremely degraded battery.

Yes for the 6s, which for it’s it time was a hell of an upgrade from the 6, but can barely handle today’s modern environment without choking. Anything from the iPhone 8 and up should be good on ios 16.

 

[FeliApple]

Yep, I had a new battery installed in the max and it’s the same as it was when I first bought it. Back to a full day with my usual usage patterns.

A full day is very vague. My Xʀ has 16 hours of screen-on time with light use, 11-12 hours with moderately heavy use, LTE and higher brightness. Oftentimes, for one day, I’ll use it for 4-5 hours at most. That screen-on time would probably make a 6s on iOS 13 a “full day phone” for me. Doesn’t mean it’s good.

There are no “actual numbers”. Older devices on perform differently, maybe not worse overall. There are no real world numbers to be had, only fake YouTube tests.

I disagree, because like I said, there’s no differently. It’s either better, worse, or the same.

As I said, andecotal points here. My xs max is as good on ios 16 with the added benefit of security updates and new functionality.

Again, it’s not as good. It can be good enough for you. It can be a full day phone for you. I am 100% sure that an iPhone XS Max on iOS 16 is enough for me. Doesn’t mean it’s good.

Pretty much that is your stance. That an ios update degrades the phone.

No. My stance has been clear, I think: “If updated far enough, iOS updates obliterate battery life. If the device isn’t updated, battery health is irrelevant”. Keyword: “far enough”. Like I said, an iPhone 8 on iOS 14 is great. One on iOS 16 isn’t.

Not starting from the iPhone X. Of course we are arguing anecdotally. There are no real world objective tests. Only fake YouTube tests.

Not from the x on, and I postulate not the iPhone 8 Plus.

iPhone X users report around 5 hours on iOS 16. Sorry, that’s not good. The iPhone Xʀ onwards though? Yeah, they’re probably good enough for a full day for most users, but I think we need to draw a very, very important distinction here, and I will explain why that metric is not relevant:
Whether a device is good enough for many users for one day is not a good metric. That number is too low. That number allows for an astronomically high degradation on many recent iPhones.

Firstly, everyone uses their iPhone differently, so an objective metric here is impossible to determine. That said, I will give an example, for clarity’s sake.
Many users report around 5 to 6 hours of screen-on time. If we take that as the battery life required, the amount of degradation that that allows is massive: the iPhone Xʀ can get 11-12 hours of LTE with moderate use on iOS 12. If we call 6 hours good enough, that means that Apple can stave off half the battery life and it will still be good. Sorry, but no.
I’ll take it further: iPhone 13 Pro Max users report 28 hours of light use. Assuming a similar loss, this means that moderately heavy use will give around 19 hours. Again, if we call 6 hours good enough, Apple can remove 13 hours of SOT via updates and we’d still call it good. Good, it is not.
I’d measure it as “percentage of screen-on time when compared to the original version of iOS”.

I have the 7th gen iPad and not by any means it’s obliterated.

The 7th gen might be good enough for you as of now... ask 10.5-inch iPad Pro users with 6-year-old batteries on iPadOS 16. That device has been obliterated. You can always find a device that’s good enough. The 3rd-gen 11-inch iPad Pro might be decent enough, too. Doesn’t mean all iPads are. “If updated far enough”.

There are no real world tests. Only fake YouTube tests that are not representative of real world usage.

I disagree. Real world tests are possible. We’ve been over this.

Not for the iPhone X and beyond.

Yes. The iPhone X and the Xʀ aren’t as good on iOS 16 as they were on iOS 11 and 12 respectively. Any current user will tell you that.

So YouTube on ios 16 uses more battery than YouTube on ios 12 is your claim for my xs max. Is there any proof to that?

Yes, absolutely. You will not match the battery life on iOS 12 with any task on iOS 16 if properly compared.

It could be and you don’t know it. For example a bug was fixed.

I have never denied that specific battery drain bugs can be fixed by Apple. Those fixes are irrelevant: they’ll never match the original iOS version. Once again: if updated far enough.

That is not degradation. Do more at the same time more battery power is needed. Split screen in safari on iPadOS browsing x windows almost simulataneously will use more batter than one safari window. That’s not degradation that’s a battery vs functionality trade off.

I wish it were like that. Like I said, with the same usage, newer iOS versions are worse. That said, increased functionality does drain more, and that only adds to the problem.

You must do exactly the same thing on your phone and have a routine. I’m guessing most people don’t. My battery on bad lte is different than good lte is different than WiFi. Battery life watching. YouTube videos in full sun on lte is different than in the house on WiFi. A million different things affect battery life. I can predict that usage in full sunlight with bad signal leads to poor battery performance, but that’s it.

Yes, and that is a factor I consider, too. I get 16 hours on my Xʀ on iOS 12 with near perfect conditions and light use. The more I deviate from those conditions, the faster it drains. That’s been true from day one, and that’s true regardless of the iOS version that the phone runs.

Battery health is always relevant, because stats cited are very general and not representative of real world usage.

If the device isn’t updated, its relevance is utterly negligible.

Yes for the 6s, which for it’s it time was a hell of an upgrade from the 6, but can barely handle today’s modern environment without choking. Anything from the iPhone 8 and up should be good on ios 16.

An iPhone 8 onwards (as of now, iOS 16) is far better than an updated iPhone 6s. That improvement is undeniable. Five versions in, the iPhone 8 is better than the iPhone 6s, also five versions in. Better doesn’t mean good. The fact that a degraded iPhone 6s on iOS 15 is unusable, and an iPhone 8 on iOS 16 isn’t, doesn’t mean that the iPhone 8 is good, it means that it’s merely better than the 6s. If the bar is that low, well, then we’ll tolerate anything.

 

[I7guy]

A full day is very vague. My Xʀ has 16 hours of screen-on time with light use, 11-12 hours with moderately heavy use, LTE and higher brightness. Oftentimes, for one day, I’ll use it for 4-5 hours at most. That screen-on time would probably make a 6s on iOS 13 a “full day phone” for me. Doesn’t mean it’s good.

Of course a term like full day is vague. Just as vague as light use, moderate use and heavy use. I don’t buy 16 hours of screen in time for the xr. Mine never gave me that ever and if you’re getting that with a five year old battery the measurement isn’t right.

I disagree, because like I said, there’s no differently. It’s either better, worse, or the same.

I disagree.

Again, it’s not as good. It can be good enough for you. It can be a full day phone for you. I am 100% sure that an iPhone XS Max on iOS 16 is enough for me. Doesn’t mean it’s good.

No, it’s as good. You cannot tell me other wise with all most your posts being opinion.

No. My stance has been clear, I think: “If updated far enough, iOS updates obliterate battery life. If the device isn’t updated, battery health is irrelevant”. Keyword: “far enough”. Like I said, an iPhone 8 on iOS 14 is great. One on iOS 16 isn’t.

I disagree with this opinion. iOS 17 will not cause a battery degradation from iOS 16, imo.

iPhone X users report around 5 hours on iOS 16. Sorry, that’s not good.

For a 6 year old battery that is very good. That is like new performance.

The iPhone Xʀ onwards though? Yeah, they’re probably good enough for a full day for most users, but I think we need to draw a very, very important distinction here, and I will explain why that metric is not relevant:
Whether a device is good enough for many users for one day is not a good metric. That number is too low. That number allows for an astronomically high degradation on many recent iPhones.

Whether a device is good enough is for the user to say not you. You claim degradation, I claim not. Whose anecdotal opinion is “better?”

Firstly, everyone uses their iPhone differently, so an objective metric here is impossible to determine. That said, I will give an example, for clarity’s sake.
Many users report around 5 to 6 hours of screen-on time. If we take that as the battery life required, the amount of degradation that that allows is massive: the iPhone Xʀ can get 11-12 hours of LTE with moderate use on iOS 12. If we call 6 hours good enough, that means that Apple can stave off half the battery life and it will still be good. Sorry, but no.
I’ll take it further: iPhone 13 Pro Max users report 28 hours of light use. Assuming a similar loss, this means that moderately heavy use will give around 19 hours. Again, if we call 6 hours good enough, Apple can remove 13 hours of SOT via updates and we’d still call it good. Good, it is not.
I’d measure it as “percentage of screen-on time when compared to the original version of iOS”.

That’s my point, there is no standardized real world usage tests other than observation. I don’t know here you get your numbers for the xr, but mine anecdotally out of the box was never that good. Again define light use, medium use and heavy use. Is light usecheck Facebook once an hour? Is that the definition?

The 7th gen might be good enough for you as of now... ask 10.5-inch iPad Pro users with 6-year-old batteries on iPadOS 16. That device has been obliterated. You can always find a device that’s good enough. The 3rd-gen 11-inch iPad Pro might be decent enough, too. Doesn’t mean all iPads are. “If updated far enough”.

My iPad given it has some age I. It has the same good battery life as when I bought it.

I disagree. Real world tests are possible. We’ve been over this.

No, they are not possible objectively. Subjectively sure.

Yes. The iPhone X and the Xʀ aren’t as good on iOS 16 as they were on iOS 11 and 12 respectively. Any current user will tell you that.

My max is as good on iOS 16 as iOS 12 after a new battery. We’re splitting hairs here and making anecdotal claims as if they were factual.

Yes, absolutely. You will not match the battery life on iOS 12 with any task on iOS 16 if properly compared.

Realistic citation for a days use please. Its
Not about fake YouTube videos that show 10 hours of video usage.

I have never denied that specific battery drain bugs can be fixed by Apple. Those fixes are irrelevant: they’ll never match the original iOS version. Once again: if updated far enough.

I disagree, there is no objective evidence to support that and subjective evidence to show it’s not true for the iPhone X and later.

I wish it were like that. Like I said, with the same usage, newer iOS versions are worse. That said, increased functionality does drain more, and that only adds to the problem.

I’m all for get more done concurrently use more battery. That’s a tradeoff, not an issue.

Yes, and that is a factor I consider, too. I get 16 hours on my Xʀ on iOS 12 with near perfect conditions and light use.

With very light use I can get two days out of my Xs max and have plenty to spare, but that proves nothing.

The more I deviate from those conditions, the faster it drains. That’s been true from day one, and that’s true regardless of the iOS version that the phone runs.

If the device isn’t updated, its relevance is utterly negligible.

An iPhone 8 onwards (as of now, iOS 16) is far better than an updated iPhone 6s. That improvement is undeniable. Five versions in, the iPhone 8 is better than the iPhone 6s, also five versions in. Better doesn’t mean good. The fact that a degraded iPhone 6s on iOS 15 is unusable, and an iPhone 8 on iOS 16 isn’t, doesn’t mean that the iPhone 8 is good, it means that it’s merely better than the 6s. If the bar is that low, well, then we’ll tolerate anything.

We don’t agree because in these conversations we have different definitions, are conflating fact and opinion, neither has produced any objective evidence to support a particular claim and are arguing from anecdotally sourced information. Nothing wrong with that but let’s recognize it.

 

[FeliApple]

Of course a term like full day is vague. Just as vague as light use, moderate use and heavy use. I don’t buy 16 hours of screen in time for the xr. Mine never gave me that ever and if you’re getting that with a five year old battery the measurement isn’t right.

Yeah, you’re right, that’s vague too. I guess I’d describe light use as “tasks which do not consume too much battery”. That includes low brightness web browsing, TV shows, reading, etc, on Wi-Fi. Moderate use as maybe higher brightness with some social media, some decently good signal, video watching on YouTube. Heavy use as perhaps high brightness use, heavy social media, a little gaming.

It isn’t exact, but you can get an overall usage pattern with a little information from the user.

I disagree.

Don’t think there’s anything to disagree with, this is factual, but it’s okay. We won’t find common ground on every point.

No, it’s as good. You cannot tell me other wise with all most your posts being opinion.

It is not. The same user will get better screen-on time with the exact same usage pattern if an A12 Bionic iPhone is on iOS 12, when compared to one on iOS 16.

I disagree with this opinion. iOS 17 will not cause a battery degradation from iOS 16, imo.

Sure, it might not. You are presenting it as something confirmed “will not cause”, when you can at most say it might not, because it isn’t even out. I don’t think this is a matter of opinion. But okay, I will ignore this semantic part.

For a 6 year old battery that is very good. That is like new performance.

The vast majority of users reported 8 to 9 hours on iOS 11. The thread is right here on MacRumors. Considering that battery health is irrelevant if the device isn’t updated, I’d say it isn’t. Also, a 37.5% screen-on time decrease isn’t “like-new”. Can it be good enough for some users? Yes, I’ve mentioned this. Doesn’t mean it’s good.

Whether a device is good enough is for the user to say not you. You claim degradation, I claim not. Whose anecdotal opinion is “better?”

Yes, I’ve mentioned that too. It might be good enough, it doesn’t mean it is as good. Like I said, the degradation is undeniable. You can say it’s better than it used to be, but it’s not as good as it was.

That’s my point, there is no standardized real world usage tests other than observation. I don’t know here you get your numbers for the xr, but mine anecdotally out of the box was never that good. Again define light use, medium use and heavy use. Is light usecheck Facebook once an hour? Is that the definition?

I defined it earlier. YouTube tests have been conducted, you deny them. Users themselves state - and screenshots show - that battery life is worse. You keep denying the undeniable. We can discuss whether current degradation numbers are awful enough to render devices unusable (for the Xʀ onwards, as of iOS 16, I’d argue they aren’t, you’d probably agree), but outright denying that any degradation occurs is a non-starter, simply because you’d be factually wrong.

My iPad given it has some age I. It has the same good battery life as when I bought it.

I’m extremely skeptical. Do you have any numbers? Any screenshots? @Andeddu has proven to me that a 1st-gen iPhone SE on iOS 15 with a replaced battery is far better than I thought it would be. I said this to show that I am totally open to changing my mind if presented with accurate information. That statement with no numbers doesn’t tell me much.

No, they are not possible objectively. Subjectively sure.

My max is as good on iOS 16 as iOS 12 after a new battery. We’re splitting hairs here and making anecdotal claims as if they were factual.

Again, I’d like to see some numbers.

Realistic citation for a days use please. Its
Not about fake YouTube videos that show 10 hours of video usage.

Here you go, added as attachment (iPhone Xʀ, original battery since August 2019, running iOS 12.3.1 since I bought it. Screenshot taken on February 14th, 2023):

I disagree, there is no objective evidence to support that and subjective evidence to show it’s not true for the iPhone X and later.

I’d love to see your iPhone XS Max’s screenshot on iOS 16.

I’m all for get more done concurrently use more battery. That’s a tradeoff, not an issue.

That I agree with. Ignoring the fact that Apple doesn’t even let me or you choose, because they don’t allow downgrading, presenting battery life degradation as a consequence of increased functionality is a totally valid and undeniable argument, and a trade-off that only each individual user can determine as worthy.

With very light use I can get two days out of my Xs max and have plenty to spare, but that proves nothing.

It might. I’d like some numbers.

 

[I7guy]

Yeah, you’re right, that’s vague too. I guess I’d describe light use as “tasks which do not consume too much battery”. That includes low brightness web browsing, TV shows, reading, etc, on Wi-Fi. Moderate use as maybe higher brightness with some social media, some decently good signal, video watching on YouTube. Heavy use as perhaps high brightness use, heavy social media, a little gaming.

It isn’t exact, but you can get an overall usage pattern with a little information from the user.

It’s not an exact science divining battery life and usage with a “little” information. In fact a “little” information doesn’t lend itself to much.

Don’t think there’s anything to disagree with, this is factual, but it’s okay. We won’t find common ground on every point.

Exactly. We won’t agree on every point.

It is not. The same user will get better screen-on time with the exact same usage pattern if an A12 Bionic iPhone is on iOS 12, when compared to one on iOS 16.

No it’s not. My anecdotal evidence is the performance of my xs max on a new battery with iOS 26 gives me the same days worth of battery. All your offering up is your anecdotal evidence.

Sure, it might not. You are presenting it as something confirmed “will not cause”, when you can at most say it might not, because it isn’t even out. I don’t think this is a matter of opinion. But okay, I will ignore this semantic part.

It’s highly improbable with the iPhone X and above there will be a performance hit and battery hit for the same tasks with the same configuration.

The vast majority of users reported 8 to 9 hours on iOS 11. The thread is right here on MacRumors. Considering that battery health is irrelevant if the device isn’t updated, I’d say it isn’t. Also, a 37.5% screen-on time decrease isn’t “like-new”. Can it be good enough for some users? Yes, I’ve mentioned this. Doesn’t mean it’s good.

Imo, your posts exhibit degradation bias. You look for examples where users reported something but ignores those that didn’t. When someone says it’s good, they perhaps mean it’s good.

Yes, I’ve mentioned that too. It might be good enough, it doesn’t mean it is as good. Like I said, the degradation is undeniable. You can say it’s better than it used to be, but it’s not as good as it was.

It could mean as good. For me as an example my Xs max is as good as the day I bought it.

I defined it earlier. YouTube tests have been conducted, you deny them. Users themselves state - and screenshots show - that battery life is worse. You keep denying the undeniable. We can discuss whether current degradation numbers are awful enough to render devices unusable (for the Xʀ onwards, as of iOS 16, I’d argue they aren’t, you’d probably agree), but outright denying that any degradation occurs is a non-starter, simply because you’d be factually wrong.

Fake YouTube tests don’t provide any clarity of how someone uses their phone jn the real world. Do most people’s predominant use case watch YouTube video for hours on end? Or do people use the phone in their own ways.

I’m extremely skeptical. Do you have any numbers? Any screenshots?

Of course. I had a screenshot can’t compare against the day I bought it. So I’m not posting it.

@Andeddu has proven to me that a 1st-gen iPhone SE on iOS 15 with a replaced battery is far better than I thought it would be. I said this to show that I am totally open to changing my mind if presented with accurate information. That statement with no numbers doesn’t tell me much.

There are anecdotal cases on both sides.

Again, I’d like to see some numbers.

I’m sure you would. You’ll have to take my word. Because that’s all you mostly got for claims anyway.

Here you go, added as attachment (iPhone Xʀ, original battery since August 2019, running iOS 12.3.1 since I bought it. Screenshot taken on February 14th, 2023):

My wife’s xr hobbled by 4 years of battery degradation was okay until we exchanged it. That’s a big factor, battery degradation.

I’d love to see your iPhone XS Max’s screenshot on iOS 16.

I know you would. But I can’t compare performance except anecdotally against a phone bought in 2018.

That I agree with. Ignoring the fact that Apple doesn’t even let me or you choose, because they don’t allow downgrading, presenting battery life degradation as a consequence of increased functionality is a totally valid and undeniable argument, and a trade-off that only each individual user can determine as worthy.

It might. I’d like some numbers.

I know you would, but we all need a benchmark which there are very few of.

 

[Vref]

after getting caught slowing down existing devices to force people to “upgrade” might have been a factor 🤷‍♂️

 

[I7guy]

after getting caught slowing down existing devices to force people to “upgrade” might have been a factor 🤷‍♂️

What slowing? My Xs max isn’t slow at all on iOS 16.

 

[FeliApple]

It’s not an exact science divining battery life and usage with a “little” information. In fact a “little” information doesn’t lend itself to much.

Like I stated earlier: battery life on the same iOS version is far more consistent than you’d imagine. Users have a certain usage pattern. If accurately described, it gives a lot of information. It’s not exact, but it’s very close.

Exactly. We won’t agree on every point.

No it’s not. My anecdotal evidence is the performance of my xs max on a new battery with iOS 26 gives me the same days worth of battery. All your offering up is your anecdotal evidence.

It’s highly improbable with the iPhone X and above there will be a performance hit and battery hit for the same tasks with the same configuration.

It’s extremely likely (I’d say completely certain) that there is a battery hit on iOS 16 when compared to the original iOS version on any iPhone (maybe the iPhone 13 can escape unscathed. Like I have repeatedly stated elsewhere, sometimes the first major iOS version is fine).

Imo, your posts exhibit degradation bias. You look for examples where users reported something but ignores those that didn’t. When someone says it’s good, they perhaps mean it’s good.

No, I don’t have degradation bias. Heavy users of the iPhone 6s reported very poor screen-on time numbers on iOS 9. The iPhone 6s is not suited for a heavy user on any version of iOS. Of course, the same usage on iOS 15 would be appalling. But non-plus models aren’t great for heavy users, even on their original iOS versions. I have always said this.

It could mean as good. For me as an example my Xs max is as good as the day I bought it.

Yet you won’t post it. Refer to the “full day” part below.

Fake YouTube tests don’t provide any clarity of how someone uses their phone jn the real world. Do most people’s predominant use case watch YouTube video for hours on end? Or do people use the phone in their own ways.

Funnily enough, you refuse to consider people’s experience because it’s “anecdotal”, yet you say YouTube tests don’t match people’s experiences and are therefore irrelevant.

Of course. I had a screenshot can’t compare against the day I bought it. So I’m not posting it.

And now you refuse to post a screenshot. It isn’t as good and you know it, isn’t it?

There are anecdotal cases on both sides.
I’m sure you would. You’ll have to take my word. Because that’s all you mostly got for claims anyway.

Your claim is deliberately vague. “It lasts me the full day just like it did on iOS 12”. And I do not doubt you. But if your screen-on time is 2 hours... well, of course it will. One will have more battery remaining than the other one, which is the whole point.

My wife’s xr hobbled by 4 years of battery degradation was okay until we exchanged it. That’s a big factor, battery degradation.

I have discovered that battery health is irrelevant if the device is on its original iOS version. My iPhone 6s on iOS 10 with the original, 7-year-old battery with 63% health is very slightly below a new iPhone 6s on iOS 9. “Very slightly below” means between 7.5-8 hours of screen-on time with light use on Wi-Fi (between 8-8.5 with a new battery on iOS 9), and moderate LTE use hovers around 6.5 hours (closer to 7 on iOS 9 with a new battery). The iPhone 6s, like I stated, is not good for heavy usage, with high brightness and heavy camera use giving around 4 hours of use. Once again, I can post the screenshot if you like...

My 3.5-year-old iPhone Xʀ with its original battery has had the exact same battery life throughout its entire lifespan, like I said.

As battery health is irrelevant and you say that battery degradation is a factor... I’d probably be correct in my assumption that battery life for the Xʀ you mention was worse on iOS 16, just like it is for every other iOS device.

I know you would. But I can’t compare performance except anecdotally against a phone bought in 2018.

I know you would, but we all need a benchmark which there are very few of.

Once again, it’s not as good as it was on iOS 12, you know that, and that’s why you refuse to post a screenshot. For clarity’s sake: I am aware that the iPhone Xʀ is better than the Xs Max. I wouldn’t be comparing it to my numbers. My numbers are unreachable for any Xs Max on any iOS version.

 

[I7guy]

Like I stated earlier: battery life on the same iOS version is far more consistent than you’d imagine. Users have a certain usage pattern. If accurately described, it gives a lot of information. It’s not exact, but it’s very close.


It’s extremely likely (I’d say completely certain) that there is a battery hit on iOS 16 when compared to the original iOS version on any iPhone (maybe the iPhone 13 can escape unscathed. Like I have repeatedly stated elsewhere, sometimes the first major iOS version is fine).

I understand this is your opinon, but that's where it ends. There is no proof only a mountain of anecdotal evidence. The world is flat was a mountain of anecdotal evidence as well.

No, I don’t have degradation bias. Heavy users of the iPhone 6s reported very poor screen-on time numbers on iOS 9. The iPhone 6s is not suited for a heavy user on any version of iOS. Of course, the same usage on iOS 15 would be appalling. But non-plus models aren’t great for heavy users, even on their original iOS versions. I have always said this.

I think there is some bias. Not saying apple is not totally not at fault but if you believe that ios updates degrade the battery and performance than your predisposed to those thoughts. I keep saying this is not true for iphone x and later.

Yet you won’t post it. Refer to the “full day” part below.

Yes, because there is no factual information comparing today to yesterday.

Funnily enough, you refuse to consider people’s experience because it’s “anecdotal”, yet you say YouTube tests don’t match people’s experiences and are therefore irrelevant.

That's what anecdotal means ...Personal observation.

And now you refuse to post a screenshot. It isn’t as good and you know it, isn’t it?

Yes because maybe it wasn't good also in 2018 and that can't be proved or disproved.

Your claim is deliberately vague. “It lasts me the full day just like it did on iOS 12”. And I do not doubt you. But if your screen-on time is 2 hours... well, of course it will. One will have more battery remaining than the other one, which is the whole point.

Yep, the phone lasts a day as it did in 2018. In 2018 my screen time could have been 2 hours also and as bad as that is, that means ios 16 didn't degrade performance or battery life.

I have discovered that battery health is irrelevant if the device is on its original iOS version.

On the face of it, that doesn't make sense. As a battery ages it loses it's ability to hold a charge.

My iPhone 6s on iOS 10 with the original, 7-year-old battery with 63% health is very slightly below a new iPhone 6s on iOS 9. “Very slightly below” means between 7.5-8 hours of screen-on time with light use on Wi-Fi (between 8-8.5 with a new battery on iOS 9), and moderate LTE use hovers around 6.5 hours (closer to 7 on iOS 9 with a new battery). The iPhone 6s, like I stated, is not good for heavy usage, with high brightness and heavy camera use giving around 4 hours of use. Once again, I can post the screenshot if you like...

You can hardly use a 6s to do anything useful, which is why it lasts a while. Operate both phones in a hostile environment and then get back to the forrum. A hostile environment is a bright day, hot temperatures, and bad cell signal. Heck if all i do is talk on the phone my xs max hardly loses any battery life. But watching a youtube video in bright, hot direct sunlight with a lousy signal is a different story.

My 3.5-year-old iPhone Xʀ with its original battery has had the exact same battery life throughout its entire lifespan, like I said.

Yes, mine did on the latest release before I traded it for an xs max.

As battery health is irrelevant and you say that battery degradation is a factor...

Battery health is very relevant.

I’d probably be correct in my assumption that battery life for the Xʀ you mention was worse on iOS 16, just like it is for every other iOS device.

I understand that you can't accept that after the iphone x there is no degradation.

Once again, it’s not as good as it was on iOS 12, you know that, and that’s why you refuse to post a screenshot. For clarity’s sake: I am aware that the iPhone Xʀ is better than the Xs Max. I wouldn’t be comparing it to my numbers. My numbers are unreachable for any Xs Max on any iOS version.

This is why factual proof is important as we are discussing our experiences. I won't post a screenshot because I can't vouch for the performance/lack of performance in 2018. It could be the same lousy performance and hence no degradation.

 

[FeliApple]

I think there is some bias. Not saying apple is not totally not at fault but if you believe that ios updates degrade the battery and performance than your predisposed to those thoughts. I keep saying this is not true for iphone x and later.

You keep saying this is not true for the iPhone X and later, and what you’re saying is incorrect. Is an iPhone X, Xʀ, Xs, 11 on iOS 16 better than iPhones used to be after being updated similarly? Yes, I’ve said that. Are those iPhones as good as they were on their respective iOS versions? No, they are not.
Performance-wise though? They are a lot better. And I can even go further back. My A9X-powered 9.7-inch iPad Pro is almost as good on iOS 12 as it was on iOS 9. Three major versions in. The same cannot be said for all 32-bit devices and for the RAM-starved iPhone 6 (and 6+). Yes, it’s not on iPadOS 16 (where it is probably awful), but any improvements are welcome (and I do not deny them).

Performance-wise, the iPhone X and later are far better than iPhones used to be. Battery life-wise, they’re better than the A9 and A10 iPhones. But they are not as good as they’re on their original versions.

Yes, because there is no factual information comparing today to yesterday.

That's what anecdotal means ...Personal observation.

Yes because maybe it wasn't good also in 2018 and that can't be proved or disproved.

Yep, the phone lasts a day as it did in 2018. In 2018 my screen time could have been 2 hours also and as bad as that is, that means ios 16 didn't degrade performance or battery life.

Yeah, this is completely incorrect, I’m sorry. Like I mentioned earlier, it can be good enough for you, it doesn’t mean it’s good.

If your screen-on time is 2 hours, yes, it will last a whole day on any version of iOS (with less percentage points remaining at the end of the day), but in no world (including this one), does that mean that because you can go from 5 am to 12 pm (we can make it a long day if you like, for the argument’s sake) with 2 hours of SOT the phone’s battery life is the same as it used to be. That argument is wrong, you know it, and I’m stating the obvious: if you have 80% remaining on iOS 12 after those 2h of SOT, and you have 50% on iOS 16, battery life is worse, even if it lasts you “a whole day”. It’s obviously why I’ve been saying that that metric is wrong.

On the face of it, that doesn't make sense. As a battery ages it loses it's ability to hold a charge.

I was as surprised as you are (and everyone is) when I tested the severely degraded 6s. I agree: at face-value, the statement is ridiculous, especially considering that everyone reports great improvements in battery life after replacing batteries on heavily updated devices. Then again, who has tried a device on its original iOS version after 7 years? Not many people.

People use their (and almost everyone)’s experience to describe my assertion as false: “if everyone mentions a massive improvement after replacing the battery, why is this person saying that there’s no change? It makes no sense, especially considering batteries chemically age”.
One aspect is quite interesting when considering this:

-I have said that I haven’t found the limit yet. I have not discounted the possibility of my 6s (and my 9.7-inch iPad Pro and every other device I have) from actually suffering a screen-on time degradation on their current (hopefully forever) versions of iOS (that is actually severe, and not a negligible drop). I have said that so far, this hasn’t been the case on any device I’ve ever used (that is on an early enough version of iOS). But like I said, I think this is possible: if 7 years, 1400 cycles, and 63% health isn’t enough on my 6s, then how about 4000 cycles? Same on my iPads, I haven’t used an iPad enough, but will my 9.7-inch iPad Pro be decent on iOS 12 after 20 years and 8000 cycles? Push it to the extreme, and I cannot give you an answer. So far (7 years of daily use, 1400 cycles on the iPhone and around 700 on the iPad), my numbers aren’t enough.

You can hardly use a 6s to do anything useful, which is why it lasts a while. Operate both phones in a hostile environment and then get back to the forrum. A hostile environment is a bright day, hot temperatures, and bad cell signal. Heck if all i do is talk on the phone my xs max hardly loses any battery life. But watching a youtube video in bright, hot direct sunlight with a lousy signal is a different story.

No iOS device (iPhone, iPad, or iPod Touch) has good battery life if pushed like this, on any version of iOS. I’m not stating anything new. 1st-gen, 12.9-inch iPad Pro users repeatedly reported 4 hours of screen-on time on iOS 9 at full brightness when pushing the device. 6th-gen, 12.9-inch iPad Pro users on their original version of iPadOS report... 4 hours at full brightness.
An iPhone 6s will get 4 hours with high brightness on iOS 9 or 10, it will probably struggle to get 1 hour on iOS 15 with that same use, but this doesn’t matter and my point remains: pushing a device on hostile environments, like you said, will never yield good results. Regardless of the device, regardless of the iOS version. Once again, I’m not saying anything new, and I don’t think that should be the circumstances in which we measure battery life. Yes, you can kill an iOS device very quickly if pushed hard enough when it is on its original iOS version. That doesn’t say much, in my opinion.

Yes, mine did on the latest release before I traded it for an xs max.

Once again, allow me to be skeptical.

Battery health is very relevant.

I replied to this throughout a previous paragraph.

I understand that you can't accept that after the iphone x there is no degradation.

This too.

This is why factual proof is important as we are discussing our experiences. I won't post a screenshot because I can't vouch for the performance/lack of performance in 2018. It could be the same lousy performance and hence no degradation.

We are running in circles as far as this goes: you deny the available proof, you are mistaken. There’s nothing else I can say about this.

 

[I7guy]

You keep saying this is not true for the iPhone X and later, and what you’re saying is incorrect. Is an iPhone X, Xʀ, Xs, 11 on iOS 16 better than iPhones used to be after being updated similarly? Yes, I’ve said that. Are those iPhones as good as they were on their respective iOS versions? No, they are not.

We can go on and on about who is "correct" and who is "not correct". IMO, you are incorrect. ios 16 on the x and beyond is better than the original o/s because 1) it has more functionality 2) bug fixes 3) similar performance 4) similar battery life (my anecdotal example)

Performance-wise though? They are a lot better. And I can even go further back. My A9X-powered 9.7-inch iPad Pro is almost as good on iOS 12 as it was on iOS 9. Three major versions in. The same cannot be said for all 32-bit devices and for the RAM-starved iPhone 6 (and 6+). Yes, it’s not on iPadOS 16 (where it is probably awful), but any improvements are welcome (and I do not deny them).

No "they" are not a lot better for the iphone x and later. I agree about 32 devices, which is way my opinion starts at the iphone x.

Performance-wise, the iPhone X and later are far better than iPhones used to be. Battery life-wise, they’re better than the A9 and A10 iPhones. But they are not as good as they’re on their original versions.

Agree for the first part, disagree for the second.

Yeah, this is completely incorrect, I’m sorry. Like I mentioned earlier, it can be good enough for you, it doesn’t mean it’s good.

Flipping this around it doesn't mean it's not good as "good" is subjective. It's an opinion that can't be proved except through fake performance videos on youtube.

If your screen-on time is 2 hours, yes, it will last a whole day on any version of iOS (with less percentage points remaining at the end of the day), but in no world (including this one), does that mean that because you can go from 5 am to 12 pm (we can make it a long day if you like, for the argument’s sake) with 2 hours of SOT the phone’s battery life is the same as it used to be. That argument is wrong, you know it, and I’m stating the obvious: if you have 80% remaining on iOS 12 after those 2h of SOT, and you have 50% on iOS 16, battery life is worse, even if it lasts you “a whole day”. It’s obviously why I’ve been saying that that metric is wrong.

That's the point, there is no proof. I'm not going to repeat my position, but it's just as factual as your anecdotal evidence.

I was as surprised as you are (and everyone is) when I tested the severely degraded 6s. I agree: at face-value, the statement is ridiculous, especially considering that everyone reports great improvements in battery life after replacing batteries on heavily updated devices. Then again, who has tried a device on its original iOS version after 7 years? Not many people.

People use their (and almost everyone)’s experience to describe my assertion as false: “if everyone mentions a massive improvement after replacing the battery, why is this person saying that there’s no change? It makes no sense, especially considering batteries chemically age”.
One aspect is quite interesting when considering this:

-I have said that I haven’t found the limit yet. I have not discounted the possibility of my 6s (and my 9.7-inch iPad Pro and every other device I have) from actually suffering a screen-on time degradation on their current (hopefully forever) versions of iOS (that is actually severe, and not a negligible drop). I have said that so far, this hasn’t been the case on any device I’ve ever used (that is on an early enough version of iOS). But like I said, I think this is possible: if 7 years, 1400 cycles, and 63% health isn’t enough on my 6s, then how about 4000 cycles? Same on my iPads, I haven’t used an iPad enough, but will my 9.7-inch iPad Pro be decent on iOS 12 after 20 years and 8000 cycles? Push it to the extreme, and I cannot give you an answer. So far (7 years of daily use, 1400 cycles on the iPhone and around 700 on the iPad), my numbers aren’t enough.


No iOS device (iPhone, iPad, or iPod Touch) has good battery life if pushed like this, on any version of iOS. I’m not stating anything new. 1st-gen, 12.9-inch iPad Pro users repeatedly reported 4 hours of screen-on time on iOS 9 at full brightness when pushing the device. 6th-gen, 12.9-inch iPad Pro users on their original version of iPadOS report... 4 hours at full brightness.
An iPhone 6s will get 4 hours with high brightness on iOS 9 or 10, it will probably struggle to get 1 hour on iOS 15 with that same use, but this doesn’t matter and my point remains: pushing a device on hostile environments, like you said, will never yield good results. Regardless of the device, regardless of the iOS version. Once again, I’m not saying anything new, and I don’t think that should be the circumstances in which we measure battery life. Yes, you can kill an iOS device very quickly if pushed hard enough when it is on its original iOS version. That doesn’t say much, in my opinion.

Once again, allow me to be skeptical.

I replied to this throughout a previous paragraph.

This too.

We are running in circles as far as this goes: you deny the available proof, you are mistaken. There’s nothing else I can say about this.

The bottom line is the 6s, although great for it's time and certainly remedied many of the issues with the iphone 6 didn't stand the test of time. Everything else is a difference of opinion and a difference of opinion what constitutes "proof" of the assertion.

 

[FeliApple]

We can go on and on about who is "correct" and who is "not correct". IMO, you are incorrect. ios 16 on the x and beyond is better than the original o/s because 1) it has more functionality 2) bug fixes 3) similar performance 4) similar battery life (my anecdotal example)

Frankly, remove your fourth point and you’d be right.

No "they" are not a lot better for the iphone x and later. I agree about 32 devices, which is way my opinion starts at the iphone x.

I think I was unclear here: I meant that the iPhone X and later are a lot better performance-wise than earlier devices.

Agree for the first part, disagree for the second.

Flipping this around it doesn't mean it's not good as "good" is subjective. It's an opinion that can't be proved except through fake performance videos on youtube.

Good isn’t subjective.

That's the point, there is no proof. I'm not going to repeat my position, but it's just as factual as your anecdotal evidence.

The bottom line is the 6s, although great for it's time and certainly remedied many of the issues with the iphone 6 didn't stand the test of time. Everything else is a difference of opinion and a difference of opinion what constitutes "proof" of the assertion.

There is a boatload of user evidence which you inexplicably disregard, and like I said, I can’t do anything to convince you otherwise.

In fact, what surprises me the most is that you haven’t noticed it yourself. The vast majority of comments report something like “yes, it is far better than it used to be. My iPhone 6s’ battery life was gone by iOS 15. My iPhone Xʀ is decent, but iOS 12 was far better due to reduced power consumption“. I mean, this isn’t controversial, and the reason is increased functionality. Like I said: as somebody who - like me - has used an iPhone Xs Max for a while, I’m very surprised that you haven’t noticed.

 

[I7guy]

Frankly, remove your fourth point and you’d be right.

I think I was unclear here: I meant that the iPhone X and later are a lot better performance-wise than earlier devices.

Good isn’t subjective.

There is a boatload of user evidence which you inexplicably disregard, and like I said, I can’t do anything to convince you otherwise.

In fact, what surprises me the most is that you haven’t noticed it yourself. The vast majority of comments report something like “yes, it is far better than it used to be. My iPhone 6s’ battery life was gone by iOS 15. My iPhone Xʀ is decent, but iOS 12 was far better due to reduced power consumption“. I mean, this isn’t controversial, and the reason is increased functionality. Like I said: as somebody who - like me - has used an iPhone Xs Max for a while, I’m very surprised that you haven’t noticed.

I cannot agree. Good and good enough are subjective terms. I’m about real world usage in all conditions and in my opinion with a new battery in my Xs max it feels like a new phone on iOS 16. Granted each o/s has their thing but degraded isn’t a term that comes to mind when I use my Xs max. Same for the xr prior to the upgrade to the i14PM.

But I respect your opinion I don’t agree with it.

Not like my iPad 2 on iOS 9, which is /was useable but degraded.

 

[FeliApple]

I cannot agree. Good and good enough are subjective terms. I’m about real world usage in all conditions and in my opinion with a new battery in my Xs max it feels like a new phone on iOS 16. Granted each o/s has their thing but degraded isn’t a term that comes to mind when I use my Xs max. Same for the xr prior to the upgrade to the i14PM.

But I respect your opinion I don’t agree with it.

Not like my iPad 2 on iOS 9, which is /was useable but degraded.

Yeah, what they’ve done to 32-bit devices is both planned obsolescence and complete obliteration. I reckon though, that that is why it improved so much performance-wise afterwards. They saw what it did to, for example, A5 devices on iOS 9, A4 devices on iOS 6 and 7, and A6 devices on iOS 10. From that point onwards, it has never been as bad, with iOS 12 as the last version for the 5s and the 6 curiously focusing on performance. Why? Just speculation, but two reasons: iOS 11’s disastrous lifecycle, and they saw what they did to 32-bit devices. I like to think there was a little bit of guilt there, so they thought “we have to do better”. And they did.