Apple’s special gold isn’t so special after all

[pragmatous]

In the video above, produced by Apple to highlight its gold process, Ive explains how the watch body is made. He describes quite clearly that the gold is an alloy of silver, copper and palladium, not a composite.

Ive then describes how the alloy is cast into ingots, rolled and formed into billets, and machined to form the Apple Watch Edition’s case, buckle and Digital Crown.

The process makes no mention of ceramics, composites or any non-standard techniques. “There is nothing particularly new here,” said Peker. “These are known methods of production for gold parts.”
​

http://www.cultofmac.com/315297/apples-special-gold-isnt-so-special-after-all/

 

[MisterMe]

OK. Jonny Ive says that Apple is using a gold alloy containing gold, silver, copper, and palladium. This jist of this report appears to be that Apple does not use a gold/ceramic compositer, but rather an alloy of gold, silver, copper, and palladium.

Nothing in the report attributes to Apple a claim that it used a gold/ceramic alloy. Where exactly is the controversy here?

 

[saving107]

Where exactly is the controversy here?

Grasping at straws is more like it.

 

[gibbz]

All of the speculation about ceramic was attributed to an Apple patent. They never claimed this Edition used that process - bloggers speculated. What is the point?

 

[ksuyen]

According to that article, it's a good thing that Apple does not use composite ceramic-Gold. What's the problem? Special does not mean better.

 

[matrix07]

In the video above, produced by Apple to highlight its gold process, Ive explains how the watch body is made. He describes quite clearly that the gold is an alloy of silver, copper and palladium, not a composite.

Ive then describes how the alloy is cast into ingots, rolled and formed into billets, and machined to form the Apple Watch Edition’s case, buckle and Digital Crown.

The process makes no mention of ceramics, composites or any non-standard techniques. “There is nothing particularly new here,” said Peker. “These are known methods of production for gold parts.”
​

http://www.cultofmac.com/315297/apples-special-gold-isnt-so-special-after-all/

Yeah.. the headline is so click bait, unsurprisingly. The "special" part refer to Apple patent that all Android fanatics here claimed Apple is using less gold than anybody else. Now when it is not so special after all, what does it actually mean? Oh, surprise surprise, they could have use more gold than they were accused. Shocker!

All things consider it's no wonder some Android fans will fall for this. They fell for the patent. Now they fell again for this ****.

 

[Julien]

In the video above, produced by Apple to highlight its gold process, Ive explains how the watch body is made. He describes quite clearly that the gold is an alloy of silver, copper and palladium, not a composite.

Ive then describes how the alloy is cast into ingots, rolled and formed into billets, and machined to form the Apple Watch Edition’s case, buckle and Digital Crown.

The process makes no mention of ceramics, composites or any non-standard techniques. “There is nothing particularly new here,” said Peker. “These are known methods of production for gold parts.”
​

http://www.cultofmac.com/315297/apples-special-gold-isnt-so-special-after-all/

I pointed this out on March 9th.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1853598/

 

[dacreativeguy]

I pointed this out on March 9th.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1853598/

Whoopdedoo!

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

I pointed this out on March 9th.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1853598/

Yeah, but what do you make of Jony Ive's claim that "the molecules are closer together in Apple gold" as if it's different from a conventional alloy?

 

[Julien]

Yeah, but what do you make of Jony Ive's claim that "the molecules are closer together in Apple gold" as if it's different from a conventional alloy?

It does seem like a strange thing to say since it IS a conventional alloy. The normal way to get molecules closer together is to lower the temperature.

 

[8CoreWhore]

All of the speculation about ceramic was attributed to an Apple patent. They never claimed this Edition used that process - bloggers speculated. What is the point?

Bloggers gonna blog.

 

[MeFromHere]

It does seem like a strange thing to say since it IS a conventional alloy. The normal way to get molecules closer together is to lower the temperature.

Well, Jony didn't say how much closer together the molecules are. (It seems odd to me that he said "molecules" instead of "atoms", but he's a designer, not a chemist, so I'll ignore that.)

I found a 1922 study of the crystal structure of silver-gold and silver-palladium alloys, as well as "pure" silver, gold, and palladium. They found that:

1. The lattice spacing varys depending on the alloy composition, and
2. For some mixtures, the lattice spacing deviates from a simple linear dependence on the alloy composition.

In other words, you can vary the distance between the "molecules" by varying the alloy mixture.

Big deal. I still think Jony was being overly dramatic on this point.

Reference:
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1922PhRv...20..424M

I suspect Apple's extra-strong gold is mainly due to work-hardening, with some contributions from the particular alloy composition they use.

 

[kdarling]

Yeah.. the headline is so click bait, unsurprisingly. The "special" part refer to Apple patent that all Android fanatics here claimed Apple is using less gold than anybody else. Now when it is not so special after all, what does it actually mean? Oh, surprise surprise, they could have use more gold than they were accused. Shocker!

All things consider it's no wonder some Android fans will fall for this. They fell for the patent. Now they fell again for this ****.

On the contrary, most of the speculation about whether Apple might use their composite gold patent, came from Apple or Apple friendly sites:

Apple have devised a new kind of gold for Apple Watch - Cult of Mac

Apple’s patent-pending 18k gold: Harder, more scratch-resistant, and ‘less gold’ - MacDailyNews

Apple's Invention Regarding the Creation of New Gold Alloys for the Apple Watch Edition Emerges - Patently Apple

Apple patent reduces gold content of 18k gold, maybe for Apple Watch Edition - iDownloadBlog

Is Apple’s real watch innovation a gold case that’s as tough as steel? - Ars Technica

Brilliant patent details how Apple may be saving money on the 18k Gold Apple Watch - BGR

Apple Invented A New Kind Of Gold For Apple Watch - iStyleNews

Apple devises new kind of gold for Apple Watch - AppleZA

Apple’s patent-pending 18k gold: Harder, more scratch-resistant, and ‘less gold’ - Rogifan

Half the whole point of all the speculation on Apple fansites, was the hope that Apple would come out with a more affordable Watch Edition. (The other half was trying to explain why Ive was claiming extra strength.)

Both were generally seen as Good Things.

The only way it would've been seen in a bad light, is if Apple had used the less-gold-filled composite AND charged $10,000.

Thus the article quoted in the original post, was meant to reassure fans that Apple was using a more standard 18K mixture.

 

[cmChimera]

I pointed this out on March 9th.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1853598/

Lol no replies? I guess you must have gotten buried by the "APPLE IS CRAZY!!1" posts.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

On the contrary, most of the speculation about whether Apple might use their composite gold patent, came from Apple or Apple friendly sites:

Apple have devised a new kind of gold for Apple Watch - Cult of Mac

Apple’s patent-pending 18k gold: Harder, more scratch-resistant, and ‘less gold’ - MacDailyNews

Apple's Invention Regarding the Creation of New Gold Alloys for the Apple Watch Edition Emerges - Patently Apple

Apple patent reduces gold content of 18k gold, maybe for Apple Watch Edition - iDownloadBlog

Is Apple’s real watch innovation a gold case that’s as tough as steel? - Ars Technica

Brilliant patent details how Apple may be saving money on the 18k Gold Apple Watch - BGR

Apple Invented A New Kind Of Gold For Apple Watch - iStyleNews

Apple devises new kind of gold for Apple Watch - AppleZA

Apple’s patent-pending 18k gold: Harder, more scratch-resistant, and ‘less gold’ - Rogifan

Half the whole point of all the speculation on Apple fansites, was the hope that Apple would come out with a more affordable Watch Edition. (The other half was trying to explain why Ive was claiming extra strength.)

Both were generally seen as Good Things.

The only way it would've been seen in a bad light, is if Apple had used the less-gold-filled composite AND charged $10,000.

Thus the article quoted in the original post, was meant to reassure fans that Apple was using a more standard 18K mixture.

Yes, but it didn't help that Jony Ive was quoted as saying "the molecules are closer together in Apple gold" as if it's something more special than a conventional alloy. This is what helped fuel many of the speculations.

 

[Rogifan]

Yes, but it didn't help that Jony Ive was quoted as saying "the molecules are closer together in Apple gold" as if it's something more special than a conventional alloy. This is what helped fuel many of the speculations.

I think the speculation spread when blogs started reporting on an Apple patent application for a new gold alloy which included ceramic. Seeing as it was just an application and not an approved patent I never thought it would be part of this generation of Watch.

 

[Julien]

Lol no replies? I guess you must have gotten buried by the "APPLE IS CRAZY!!1" posts.

Yes, I found this right after Apple posted it but the number of threads were coming fast and furors and it was buried in no time.

 

[matrix07]

Half the whole point of all the speculation on Apple fansites, was the hope that Apple would come out with a more affordable Watch Edition. (The other half was trying to explain why Ive was claiming extra strength.)

Hence, less gold, like I said. We laughed at this rumour (that it will be used in this 1st generation of the Watch). Only foolish Android fans took it seriously.

The only way it would've been seen in a bad light, is if Apple had used the less-gold-filled composite AND charged $10,000.

Nobody suspected that. Only foolish Android fans did. So this never happens, maybe only in your head.

Thus the article quoted in the original post, was meant to reassure fans that Apple was using a more standard 18K mixture.

Initially, nobody suspected anything about Apple's 18 Karat gold claim before this patent. 18k is 18K. It was printed right there on Apple page, why should we have a doubt? So please provide the source and quote exactly where it said that, according to you, Apple's claim of 18 Karat gold was already dubious before somebody saw this patent.
When the blogs started posting about Apple new gold alloy otherwise...

I think the speculation spread when blogs started reporting on an Apple patent application for a new gold alloy which included ceramic. Seeing as it was just an application and not an approved patent I never thought it would be part of this generation of Watch.

As the beard said, Yep.

 

[kdarling]

Hence, less gold, like I said. We laughed at this rumour (that it will be used in this 1st generation of the Watch). Only foolish Android fans took it seriously.

Nobody suspected that. Only foolish Android fans did. So this never happens, maybe only in your head.

As I already pointed out with plenty of links, Apple fan sites were quite involved with the possibility that the Edition would use the new gold patent to allow a lower price.

Plus it was being used to explain Jon Ive's claim about their gold being "twice as strong".

Not sure why you keep wanting to bring in Android. It had nothing to do with this.

Initially, nobody suspects anything about Apple's 18 Karat gold claim before this patent. 18k is 18K, so why would we suspect Apple will play false?

You really seem confused by what the patent is about.

Yes, 18K = 75% gold. However, a composite matrix requires half the overall material mass, thus the same 75% would require half the gold of a comparable non-composite case.

Again, this was mostly seen as a good thing, price wise.

 

[matrix07]

As I already pointed out with plenty of links, Apple fan sites were quite involved with the possibility that the Edition would use the new gold patent to allow a lower price.

Since when Apple fan sites stopped posting rumours for fun? And this prove exactly how? You never read tons of Apple patents that never being used posted by all these sites?

Plus it was being used to explain Jon Ive's claim about their gold being "twice as strong".

Speculation that, again, only foolish Android fans fell for.

Not sure why you keep wanting to bring in Android. It had nothing to do with this.

Because only foolish Android fans took this unconfirmed rumor seriously. And thought what Apple fan sites posted are a gospel truth.

You really seem confused by what the patent is about.

Yes, 18K = 75% gold. However, a composite matrix requires half the overall material mass, thus the same 75% would require half the gold of a comparable non-composite case.

Again, this was mostly seen as a good thing, price wise.

You seem confused by the whole situation. The 18 Karat Gold is printed clearly on the Apple page. Nobody suspected anything about it. I'm still waiting for your link and exact quote that there was someone having a doubt about this before the whole patent thing. Someone reliable that's not anti-Apple.

 

[uwdude]

It would be interesting to see if some company can test the gold once the watch is released and see what the alloy is. Is there a company willing to pay $10,000 to get their hands on one to test and publish the results for the publicity? Although it would be a pretty boring article if it turned out the gold was a standard alloy.

 

[Julien]

It would be interesting to see if some company can test the gold once the watch is released and see what the alloy is. Is there a company willing to pay $10,000 to get their hands on one to test and publish the results for the publicity? Although it would be a pretty boring article if it turned out the gold was a standard alloy.

Why????

Jony Ive says what the alloy is in the film. Just watch it and you can know for yourself. He says and it is the standard copper, silver and palladium alloy. Of course the Rose Gold will contain a higher copper to silver ratio than the Yellow Gold.

 

[Piggie]

Why????

Jony Ive says what the alloy is in the film. Just watch it and you can know for yourself. He says and it is the standard copper, silver and palladium alloy. Of course the Rose Gold will contain a higher copper to silver ratio than the Yellow Gold.

So if it's a standard normal 18k gold, what's with all this rubbish from Apple then?

"we created Apple Watch Edition in 18-karat solid gold. Since it's a soft metal, susceptible to nicks and scratches, our metallurgists engineered an entirely new alloy that's up to twice as hard as standard gold"

 

[kdarling]

You seem confused by the whole situation.

That's because I don't know what your point is supposed to be

The 18 Karat Gold is printed clearly on the Apple page. Nobody suspected anything about it. I'm still waiting for your link and exact quote that there was someone having a doubt about this before the whole patent thing.

Nobody ever said it wasn't 18 kt gold.

Is that what you thought people meant when they referred to the patent?

 

[matrix07]

Nobody ever said it wasn't 18 kt gold.

Is that what you thought people meant when they referred to the patent?

Nope. Before the patent fiasco, there's only one heated discussion about the gold: is it 18 Karat solid gold or is it 18 Karat plated gold. After somebody posted about the patent, the Android fans turned the discussion to: now according to this patent, which no one confirmed is being used, Apple 18 Karat gold is using less gold than the industry. so they could be able to claim that the Edition should not cost us much, which in turn will be their weapon attacking the Edition when the price unveiled.
For us Apple users? We're just rolling our eyes all along knowing "Apple fan sites" always posted about patents that Apple is not using or even never use it.

See. Isn't hard to understand.