You dont really need 1000 accounts. You can post a new review for every version of an app, they always get reset (well hidden really) when a new one is released. There are stories of app developers just posting update after update to reset the negative reviews.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Says 1,000 Fraudulent Reviews Were Detected Across Two Accounts Owned by 'Dash' Developer [Update: Developer Responds]
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
You dont really need 1000 accounts. You can post a new review for every version of an app, they always get reset (well hidden really) when a new one is released. There are stories of app developers just posting update after update to reset the negative reviews.
Including the risk of selective publication and quoting out of context.
This is 100% plausible. I have paid for others' fees related to programming things (relatives, friends, coworkers) for the sake of enjoying the expansion of development. All of my old tech is recycled into my family before it is sold and all of my company's internal tech is cycled through its members. As [an International Software Developer] from Microsoft said: one of the biggest issues engaging people outside of the United States is acquiring a form of payment and sharing of cards amongst people is common...
The relative doesn't not have to be a bad actor in this.
I don't think that's even being disputed - the person in control of that account purposely did wrong. But who was in control of that account is the bigger issue...
She could have started in the store, then realized that she could make money creating a bunch of crap apps and pushing fraud instead. She starts, get contacted by Apple, weasels her way out of the trouble, then continues on her way skimming cheap cash. Why would she tell the person who is responsible for her getting into the store that such a thing occurred when she straight up knows what she did was wrong? Why would she stop, also, given that she had no real accountability in the matter? This is where my issue with Apple not reaching out to both accounts stems.
But as others have said, he may have been in control of both accounts (and there is potentially proof) which means that his story is moot. However, to poke holes in the logistics of the story as if that is proof is silly.
This really should have ended the thread, but there's more. Read the press release and you discover Kapeli Software is based in Coventry, UK, and so that answers the other raging question. It looks like Bogdan did break the law by posting the recorded phone call.
In the UK it's legal to record a phone call for personal use, but making it public is an offence under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act.
Edit: okay maybe he could have moved back to Romania in the intervening time.
Last edited:
They haven't actually said one person posted 1,000 reviews, people just keep assuming that. They said one developer account was involved with / linked to "nearly 1,000 fake reviews". Presumably one developer account contracted out to one of the many shady "we'll get you multiple app reviews for money" agencies and paid for 1,000 fake reviews (such "companies", in turn, use bot nets with "borrowed" accounts, or a mechanical turk style setup, farming out to hundreds of folks who will post positive reviews of anything in exchange for a few dollars - often easily spotted by their inordinately vague glowing reviews and slightly fractured English). There are two (at least) developer accounts involved. One has the (Mac and iOS version of) the Dash app only. The other has about two dozen rather nondescript apps of pedestrian quality. A popular theory (except around these parts, where many are far too preoccupied with gathering their torches and pitchforks) is that the 1,000 fake reviews were distributed across the nondescript apps linked to the second developer account, as the Dash app was well liked in the developer community and didn't need any fake reviews to gain attention.
I would highly recommend reading Daring Fireball's short article on this, for a non-sensationalist take.
Developers get junk mail from firms offering "services" to boost downloads or reviews. Reportedly, these "agencies" somehow have direct or indirect control of lots of iTunes accounts (maybe paid Mechanical Turks types, "work from home" victims, incentivised game miners, perhaps even bot farms, etc.) all capable of downloading apps and posting reviews from different IPs. Apple likely tracks all this activity using Big Data Machine Learning models, and catches developers who exceed some statistical score. Perhaps the "sister" purchased one of these "services", and her account's score went red long ago.
Last edited:
He was a student at Coventry. I don't know if he's still there. His web design firm is Romanian.
I'm still not clear where iMore got common bank account, developer ID login, and bundle ID.
The developer admittted to common credit card in his blog.
Bundle ID I'm guessing is something you can see somewhere public if you know where to look? Is that the same thing as the org identifier?
So then I don't know how iMore came up with common bank account and developer login.
That's why I was still willing to give the dev some benefit of doubt, until a forum member here posted other evidence in this post: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...eloper-responds.2005850/page-12#post-23708918
It's not a matter of siding with the guy, it's a matter of saying, "hey, it's clear we don't have all the details, maybe let's hold off on the public execution until we get the whole story." But some people around here just really have a strong desire to see a hanging today, and are busy getting the rope and building the scaffolding, and when someone raises any sort of question about the story, they shout it down with "NOOOO! HE'S GUILTY!!1!" because that might get in the way of their passing judgement. And if there's no public hanging today, what are they gonna do for fun? (It feels good to get outraged about something.)
I like Apple. A lot. Because they make devices that work very well for me. They are a huge company and they're overseeing an App Store with millions of apps in it. Sometimes they make mistakes. Sometimes they read situations wrong (seeing individual things that did, in fact, happen, but fitting the pieces together into the wrong picture - this isn't hard to do when using automated tools - and remember, they're trying to keep track of millions of apps). I like Dash. It's a great tool for developers. A lot of other developers agree. So many, that the idea of needing fake reviews for Dash, seems ludicrous on its face. (Let me also add, I despise fake reviews, on any site.) It's clear, despite the protestations of the angry mob (who don't like to be told that they're acting like an angry mob), that we don't have all the facts here. So why the rush to judgement? I'm not claiming he's innocent (he has, at the very least, shown very poor judgement by recording and posting what was intended to be a private phone call), but neither do I see conclusive proof that he's guilty, so why do you need to crucify him today?
[doublepost=1476307654][/doublepost]
FWIW, The Bundle Identifier is sort of the machine readable name for an app, as stored in the main Info.plist file for an app. It looks kind of like a hostname/domain name in reverse. It can be read in the terminal with the "defaults" command; I'm not sure if that's part of the default OS install now, or only in the developer tools; if the latter, you can approximate the effect with "grep" (the "-A1" argument says to print one line After the matching line, since keys and values are usually stored on separate lines):
$ defaults read /Applications/Dash.app/Contents/Info.plist CFBundleIdentifier
com.kapeli.dashdoc
$
$ grep -A1 CFBundleIdentifier /Applications/Dash.app/Contents/Info.plist
<key>CFBundleIdentifier</key>
<string>com.kapeli.dashdoc</string>
$
com.kapeli.dashdoc
$
$ grep -A1 CFBundleIdentifier /Applications/Dash.app/Contents/Info.plist
<key>CFBundleIdentifier</key>
<string>com.kapeli.dashdoc</string>
$
Last edited:
Yeah, it wasn't clear to me if iMore had a contact in Apple that provided that information, or if they were finding information elsewhere (as with the list of apps with the same org identifiers).
I tend to be a "soft decision" kind of person-- I try not to make a binary decision but just keep a weighted set of possibilities in my head. As such, I still give the dev some benefit of the doubt-- I read the post you linked to, and it definitely gives some more context to all of this, but it still isn't incontrovertible that Bogdan's story can't be simultaneously true.
@frumpsnake wove a good story around the details, but it's not unreasonable to write a different story where you've got a kid from Romania who went to college in the UK, and tried to use his success to help his whole family. He started Kapeli by writing some simple utilities to get some experience and then when he decided to focus on a more sophisticated product line he handed the original code set off to someone else in the family as a starter kit. As has been said elsewhere, if they really are in Romania, it's often hard to get access to things like credit cards (an amazing number of even well developed economies are still very much cash based)-- maybe he kept her account alive because he has a UK card.
A big company would have been diligent about org id's and contact names, but a few college kids from Eastern Europe just getting started and having a little success?
Basically I can see at least two possible stories here: Bogdan is trying to bluff his way out of a bad situation, or Kapeli and Apple were well meaning but wound up in confusing circumstances and eventually lost trust in one another.
In the end, I doubt we'll ever really get indisputable proof one way or the other. I like to think he made some bad decisions but wasn't himself truly unethical. Apple may have also missed an opportunity or two, but it looked pretty clear to me from the beginning that they were operating in good faith. I'd expect posting that phone recording though was the end of the discussion.
Last edited:
I'm gratified to learn that there are other people who organize information this way.
Yup, exactly. I haven't been back to Japan in a while, but last time I was there, it was still mostly cash, and people would look at you like you were crazy if you tried to pay for groceries with a credit card.
If the "sister" turns out to be a sock puppet, cosmic justice would be for one of the competing developers who got one of those (allegedly) fraudulent bad reviews to create his/her own Dash work-alike (or better !), and put it in the app store.
There's precedent for this. https://marco.org/2015/09/21/peace-refund
Wow, talk about a crisis of conscience. Glad to see there are people who will walk away from a windfall because, on second thought, they're not really happy with the larger consequences.
No complains about arrival of a wireless standard
1. once the wireless headphones can work for a week on a single charge (or once they are charging continuously from solar / absorbing EM waves or whatever)
2. once the audio quality is comparable to a wired connection and does not suck battery life of your phone considerably
3. once the security of the wireless connection (e.g. for a phonecall) is 100 % perfect ( = never )
As you, I hope, agree, we are far from 1.2.3. And still then, I will want a jack/cable option on my Mac(book) pro (which Apple will also remove soon), since I use it for digital optical output to my receiver/amplifier that will work OK for the next 10-20 years without a problem.
As far as CD drive is concerned, I still use it (taking care of servers, sometimes you need to burn an image and boot a machine which cannot do a USB boot). Also I rip bought CDs and store them in a lossless format since the streamed / downloaded crap sounds horrible on a decent audio setup.
As far as lightning is concerned - no problem, just choose one standard across vendors (USB-C ? )
As for other ports, I find these useful:
1. Ethernet - wifi is less secure, slow (even compared to 1Gb/s ethernet). Where is the 10Gb/s built-in ethernet? Or optical connection for higher speeds?
2. Card reader.
3. Firewire (Of course this will be less and less important after time - but there is a specification for which the ethernet socket could be used also for firewire if needed)
4. Audio out (analogue and digital/optical)
5. Audio in (analogue and digital/optical) - remember the time when you could simultaneously use audio in and out on a pro machine?
6. Couple of Thunderbolts (includes video and audio out) - will converge to USB-C form factor.
7. Couple of USBs
I don't mind if Apple makes devices with nothing on them for the facebook kids. But people who actually do some work with their (presumably PRO) machines actually need some wired I/O for many good reasons. What I don't mind about is whether my laptop will be 5mm thinner or not (actually add some more battery and make it 5mm thicker).
Last edited:
If the accusations are true and Apple is every bit justified in terminating his developer account, then you can only blame the app developer for his own actions (and inactions apparently). Maybe it's time to start shopping around for an alternative.
I have the latest Bose wireless headphone and earphones. The audio quality is very close to their wired equivalents, and I've noticed no significant effect on my iPhone / iPad battery life.
For what it's worth, the developer has already published instructions for moving one's license from the Mac App Store version of Dash to a directly downloaded version, which handles the case of Mac use (which likely gets much more actual use than the iOS version).
Well, that works too.
Not familiar with the dash app. How integral is the iOS app to the whole experience?
Apple positively, absolutely refuses to refund my $29 I spent on Dash. I don't care what the developer did, I feel screwed over royally. Here is the reply I sent off to their little "The discontinuation of applications isn’t determined by Apple" line of BS they tried feeding me:
------------
Howdy,
In this case, the discontinuation of the application was determined by Apple:
https://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/10/apple-dash-developer-fraudulent-reviews/
I’m not asking that my request meet the requirements for a refund per iTunes Store policy, rather I’m a customer who has spent tens of thousands of dollars on Apple products and the iTunes Store with more purchases planned well into the future and I’m disgruntled over the situation.
Additionally, I am unable to make a proper backup of the application as recommended by T1 and T2 support as the Transfer Purchases option has been removed from iOS 9 and above, making it impossible for me to enjoy my purchase of this App.
I’m requesting under these extenuating circumstances and to keep me as a valued Apple customer to provide a one time appeasement to satisfy my complaint, disinformation provided by Apple Support regarding transferring purchases and loss of a critical application I rely upon in my daily work without absolutely any remedy to maintain access to a product that I purchased.
If my request cannot be satisfied, please let me know so I can return my Apple Watch Series 2 and promptly switch to the Android/Windows ecosystem. No other software distribution system that I’m aware of (Steam, Google Play Store, Microsoft Store and so on) would so recklessly remove a purchased item from their customer’s purchased history and so fraudulently forbid access to a product their customer purchased. Remove it from the store for purchase, fine - just don’t **** your customers in the process.
On Oct 12, 2016, at 1:22 PM, itunesstoresupport@apple.com wrote:
Thanks for choosing Apple.
Hi CustomerName,
Thanks for contacting us. I understand that the full version of Dash 3 has been discontinued and you’d like a refund for your purchase.
As we discussed, I had your account reviewed for your refund request of the App purchase.
After carefully reviewing your case, we’ve determined your purchase doesn't meet the conditions for a refund. If you’d like to learn more about our refund policy, see this page:
http://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/itunes/ww
The discontinuation of applications isn’t determined by Apple. For more information, contact the app's developer directly:
https://kapeli.com/dash
Note: Although we mentioned third-party products in this email, Apple doesn't recommend or endorse these products.
Thank you for your patience while I looked into this further for you.
Thanks,
Advisor Name
iTunes Store Customer Support
http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/ww
------------
Howdy,
In this case, the discontinuation of the application was determined by Apple:
https://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/10/apple-dash-developer-fraudulent-reviews/
I’m not asking that my request meet the requirements for a refund per iTunes Store policy, rather I’m a customer who has spent tens of thousands of dollars on Apple products and the iTunes Store with more purchases planned well into the future and I’m disgruntled over the situation.
Additionally, I am unable to make a proper backup of the application as recommended by T1 and T2 support as the Transfer Purchases option has been removed from iOS 9 and above, making it impossible for me to enjoy my purchase of this App.
I’m requesting under these extenuating circumstances and to keep me as a valued Apple customer to provide a one time appeasement to satisfy my complaint, disinformation provided by Apple Support regarding transferring purchases and loss of a critical application I rely upon in my daily work without absolutely any remedy to maintain access to a product that I purchased.
If my request cannot be satisfied, please let me know so I can return my Apple Watch Series 2 and promptly switch to the Android/Windows ecosystem. No other software distribution system that I’m aware of (Steam, Google Play Store, Microsoft Store and so on) would so recklessly remove a purchased item from their customer’s purchased history and so fraudulently forbid access to a product their customer purchased. Remove it from the store for purchase, fine - just don’t **** your customers in the process.
On Oct 12, 2016, at 1:22 PM, itunesstoresupport@apple.com wrote:
Thanks for choosing Apple.
Hi CustomerName,
Thanks for contacting us. I understand that the full version of Dash 3 has been discontinued and you’d like a refund for your purchase.
As we discussed, I had your account reviewed for your refund request of the App purchase.
After carefully reviewing your case, we’ve determined your purchase doesn't meet the conditions for a refund. If you’d like to learn more about our refund policy, see this page:
http://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/itunes/ww
The discontinuation of applications isn’t determined by Apple. For more information, contact the app's developer directly:
https://kapeli.com/dash
Note: Although we mentioned third-party products in this email, Apple doesn't recommend or endorse these products.
Thank you for your patience while I looked into this further for you.
Thanks,
Advisor Name
iTunes Store Customer Support
http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/ww
The Mac and iOS apps are standalone. They're documentation viewers with a very nice search engine. While it's cool that you can carry all that in your pocket, it's arguably much more useful to use on a Mac while programming (where you have a keyboard and compilers and such - Dash also has plug-ins for many text editors).
The one crossover bit is that there is a facility for the Mac app to control the iOS app, so you can have a scenario where you're editing code on a laptop, and click some key sequence to activate the Dash plugin, and have it configured to look up the keyword under the cursor in your text editor, and pull up the documentation for that keyword on the iPad sitting in a stand next to your laptop - instant one-key second screen especially for viewing documentation while coding. That's a cool trick, though I've never used it beyond once or twice just to see it work. I have both the Mac and iOS apps (and migrated the Mac app over to the direct download version), and use the Mac version often, mostly for looking up Python documentation while coding. The iOS version... it's cool that I can have all sorts of documentation with me, but I haven't used it much in practice.
Last edited: