Apple Says App Store Changes Go Too Far in New Epic Games Appeal Filing

[J InTech82]

Huh? Literally I pay 99/year as a developer fee then for PAID apps I pay a 30% commission. You are losing focus. APPLE did NOTHING to make Netflix movies, they didn't invest in the script, the equipment, the editing, NOTHING. AND THEY WANT 30%. ANYWAY, your'e changing the subject cause you lost. FOR IN-APP PURCHASES, APPLE DOES NOTHING BUT TAX THE INTERNET/APP. It's now ILLEGAL for them to require devs to use their payment method.

Is $99 a year really going to break your bank? I mean, let's get real. If this is tooooo much for you, to have access to world class API's, incredible Developer Tools, hosting/distributing your app - then go elsewhere. Apple is not forcing you to stay. I ask you the same questions. Are you in a business to make money or can you afford to give your app away for free? Do you want to make profit on top of just staying afloat?

 

[aidler]

I'm honestly disgusted by Apple's behavior over the past few years. I don't think this is the Apple Steve Jobs envisioned. I know he was also very aggressive and defensive, but I like to believe that, above all, he wanted Apple to shine through its products and technical excellence, not through legal battles with everyone and their grandmothers.

During the unfortunate Tim Cook years, I lost all loyalty to Apple. I still use some of their products because they're very good, but as soon as someone better comes along, I’m gone.

 

[surferfb]

Definitely not changing the subject. If I shop on Ebay or Amazon there is a built in markup on the price of the item. Which goes to Amazon or Ebay. If an app is sold on Apple's AppStore. There is a built in mark up that Apple gets. You just happen to "know" what that mark up is. In this case, up to 30%.

In the real world, how it "works" is that you the customer see a price you are willing to pay for an item. If you don't like the price, you have the choice of purchasing it or not. You generally have no idea nor should most people even care what the store cost is vs how much the vendor/developer wanted to make on the sale. So long as the customer is willing and OK with making the purchase at the price that was advertised. The process from raw materials, and or an idea that goes through the steps to become a product/service has prices along the journey. Each step tends to add a cost. Be it transportation, warehousing, marketing, licensing, taxes, duties, defective/Loss, trademarking, etc. The final sale of the product, if it did not come from the original manufacture/developer. Tends to have a "store" cost too.

So everything, practically has a price increase more than the sum of its parts.

Wait until he finds out that malls charge stores a percentage of revenue in addition to rent.

 

[J InTech82]

I did the math for Spotify’s app on one of these threads a few months back. Obviously it depends on Apple’s bandwidth costs, and Spotify is a hugely popular app, but assuming 150 million iOS Spotify users × 100 MB average app size × 8 updates/year = 120 PB/year (120 million GB)

Apple’s cost at different bandwidth rates:

• $0.002/GB → $240,000/year
• $0.005/GB → $600,000/year
• $0.01/GB → $1.2 million/year

So $240k - $1.2M per year just for app delivery for Spotify, assuming I didn’t screw up the math. So somewhere between 2,500 and 12,000 $99 substitutions just to offset Spotify.

And this is just Spotify. People seem to think that it cost Apple nothing to host all this, and that they have unlimited bandwidth.

 

[rafark]

Can I walk into Target and demand they sell whatever I want, and not pay them? Those are two totally different questions, but Epic's desires seem to mirror this. They seem unfathomable.

Do you have a “Target” in your pocket? Did you buy a “Target” to use it? I thought so. You have to walk in. Apples to oranges

 

[Cunir]

Is there a rule that says you can appeal simply because you lost? (genuine question) people seem to file an immediate appeal for no other reason than they don't like losing

 

[surferfb]

Is there a rule that says you can appeal simply because you lost? (genuine question) people seem to file an immediate appeal for no other reason than they don't like losing

You have to point out what you think the judge/jury got wrong and why (legally speaking) they’re wrong. It’s not a “redo of the trial” or “I don’t like what the court found.”

Generally during the trial the lawyers will raise objections, etc. to prepare for the appeal, if needed.

 

[ghostface147]

Shut the F up and deal with it Apple. Babies.

 

[AppleEnthusiast1995]

I hope epic games continues to sue until they run out of money and are forced to file for bankruptcy.

 

[Avidos1]

#1 'your' and 'you're' are different. Please learn
#2 FREE apps are a HUGE reason why people use their phones. From games to social media. iPhone would be far less used and useful without FREE apps.
#3 You are completely losing focus. I'm ONLY talking about in-app purchases. You know, the SUBJECT Apple is arguing in this article. APPLE is saying "Okay we can let EPIC games link to their website and sell items but not other developers." My argument is APPLE should be getting NOTHING once I'm in a developers app. Apple did NOTHING to make any of the Netflix TV shows or movies. I PAY Apple for the device to watch on a great screen and I PAY Netflix for great content. APPLE did NOTHING to invest in any Netflix movies/TV shows. Same with Amazon, APPLE did NOTHING to build amazon's infrastructure. APPLE DESERVES 0%, NOTHING, once the app is downloaded. If it's a paid app, yes, in Apple's App Store, Apple should get a cut.
#4 Devs pay $99/year for using Apple's dev tools and funding the App Store system.

Checkmate.

#1 says it all didn’t bother reading after that as you don’t deserve my time

 

[emulator]

If I spend hundreds of dollars on a device, I should have a choice of how I install applications to it.

But at the time of purchase, you know what you can and cannot do with said device. If you still don't and don't like the concept, just return it and buy something else.

 

[PlayUltimate]

I hope apple loses. 30% or even 15% for payment processing is criminal. In addition they don't even support our license type and so for years I had to go through this huge headache with apple almost every time we have a major app update.

If Apple was reasonable and said 5% or 10% nobody would have batted an eye. Their greed has put them in this position.

Nobody batted an eye when Apple opened the store and charge 30%. For most, it was a bargain compared to the alternatives.

 

[PlayUltimate]

If you pay money for something, it's yours in every conceivable way.

Please then explain how apartment rental works?

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

Apple 🍎 is going to win this case with the Supreme Court in that this is their trademarked product/service. The courts will set a dangerous precedent if they go against Apple’s trademark service.

Apple may think “App Store” is their trademarked service, but the problem is it’s a generic term. You can’t own everyday language that simply describes what something is. Microsoft, Amazon, and Google all run “app stores,” and consumers understand that as a category, not just Apple’s brand. Trademark law exists to prevent confusion, not to let a giant company wall off plain English. If the Court sides with Apple here, it sets a dangerous precedent where big tech can fence off basic industry terms and choke competition.

 

[Siggo]

You know, devs, you don't have to develop for iOS. Just leave. Problem solved.

Just like how I can choose not to develop for the Epic Games Store using Unreal engine on Windows. I can develop for Steam using Unity for Mac.

So do Apple don't have to sell within EU, US or any other market, if they don't want to comply to the rules?

Is $99 a year really going to break your bank? I mean, let's get real. If this is tooooo much for you, to have access to world class API's, incredible Developer Tools, hosting/distributing your app - then go elsewhere.

You are mixing up things. If Apple wants to sett the Developer Account for 99$ (even if it would cost internally 5000$ to maintain), it's their thing. But using that as an excuse to "accept the terms and ****", is just wrong. Again, if Apple don't like the legislature in any country/region they are free to leave as well.

 

[wbeasley]

Don't change the subject. Of course I realize amazon and Ebay make money ON THEIR PLATFORM what we are talking about is WHY THE HELL IS APPLE MAKING AN ADDITIONAL 30% ON TOP OF THAT?! It increases the price for customer and APPLE did NOTHING when I was on amazon/ebay. It's called the internet/app. APPLE should not get 30% TAX on the INTERNET

and Apple dont get 30% or anything if you buy something from a webpage...

 

[wbeasley]

I'm honestly disgusted by Apple's behavior over the past few years. I don't think this is the Apple Steve Jobs envisioned. I know he was also very aggressive and defensive, but I like to believe that, above all, he wanted Apple to shine through its products and technical excellence, not through legal battles with everyone and their grandmothers.

During the unfortunate Tim Cook years, I lost all loyalty to Apple. I still use some of their products because they're very good, but as soon as someone better comes along, I’m gone.

Jobs didnt want an AppStore... he was talked into it.

 

[deevey]

#2 FREE apps are a HUGE reason why people use their phones. From games to social media. iPhone would be far less used and useful without FREE apps.

And make up 95% of the App Store.

#3 You are completely losing focus. I'm ONLY talking about in-app purchases. You know, the SUBJECT Apple is arguing in this article. APPLE is saying "Okay we can let EPIC games link to their website and sell items but not other developers." My argument is APPLE should be getting NOTHING once I'm in a developers app. Apple did NOTHING to make any of the Netflix TV shows or movies.

Apple facilitated the sale if you sign up from the app discovered on their store. They make 30% on the first year, and 15% after. The USER has the option to cancel that subscription and sign up directly with whomever for a cheaper cost it should be on the developer to advertise this to their customers OUTSIDE OF THE APP via traditional channels if they wish too convey to their customers that their is a cheaper alternative.

It is also on the customers to sign up via this method by shopping around. Just like you would if you were buying anything else.

I don't walk into Walmart and expect that a rep from Pepsi, for example are going to be allowed approach me at the checkout and tell me I'll get 30% off if I walk across the street to a different shop.

I PAY Apple for the device to watch on a great screen and I PAY Netflix for great content. APPLE did NOTHING to invest in any Netflix movies/TV shows. Same with Amazon, APPLE did NOTHING to build amazon's infrastructure. APPLE DESERVES 0%, NOTHING, once the app is downloaded. If it's a paid app, yes, in Apple's App Store, Apple should get a cut.
#4 Devs pay $99/year for using Apple's dev tools and funding the App Store system.

Thats only about 3 billion globally per year in developer fees vs $90+ Billion in total App Store revenue.

Lose the revenue from the big players and the small ones will suffer.

Big apps like fortnight who sell "credits" and in-game enhancements @30% per transaction are the ones who allow small developers and free apps reside on the store.

A subscription app is 30% for the first year, with follow ups being @15%

A viral free game like flappy bird for example would have cost Apple millions in service fees alone.

95% of apps are free.

In my world:

If your intent is to circumvent commissions on the App Store. Move those apps to the bottom of search results or better still remove their search listing ENTIRELY and make the app available to download only by linking to the app directly from their own advertising channels.

OR

If you want your app listed in an alternative store, your apps are removed from the Apple one.

Paying commissions is part of doing business, marketing isn't free and either are Apples Software or services. Developers like Epic already know this, hence they also charge commissions on their stores.

How would YOU propose that the App Store stays open, while retaining the reviews, hosting and security if ALL developers suddenly stopped using Apples IAP's.

 

[=Alb=]

Cook's Apple is incredibly GREEDY. Hate him

 

[Rogifan]

To a degree yes. Facebook is "free" to use. But if they decided to charge for something within Facebook. They "should" pay apple a cut of that sale. Say they wanted to charge $10 to update the look and feel of the facebook app. Apple should get a 30% cut so, $3 to Apple. So long as it isn't something already with an exception to that rule. Like being an Ebay or Amazon. Facebook marketplace would be an exception. But, when EPIC sells a DLC to an end user. That does subsidize say the "free" games other developers make (and update regularly).
Technically Spotify "would" and "should" pay a cut. But, they simply don't offer sign ups via the AppStore. You are required to go to them directly (no link-out). And are only presented with an existing user account login. They seem to be managing JUST fine. Same for Netflix.

Facebook should pay Apple because I bought an iPhone and use Facebook on it? Should they pay my ISP too since Facebook is worthless without an internet connection?

 

[Rogifan]

If you have a solution to force Meta, Spotify and Netflix to pay their “fair share” to Apple. I am all ears. 😄

It was Apple’s choice to create the ‘reader category’ which allowed them to not “pay their fair share” whatever the heck that means.

 

[Rogifan]

This is exactly it. I don't even know how anyone can deny it, as Apple has basically acknowledged this through various comms over the years.

They "fell into this" unjustified gravy train and now are doing pretzels to try to defend the "how and why".

And for some odd reason, we have Apple fans helping them with the pretzel twisting.

I mean .. I do "get why" ... it's a huge stream of cash.
Doesn't make it right. The situation needs to stop.

Gravy train is right. The only thing that’s more of a gravy train is what Google pays them for search traffic (or as someone would say “traffic acquisition costs”). That’s 99.99% pure profit for Apple.

 

[Stevez67]

Cook's Apple is incredibly GREEDY. Hate him

What part of capitalist economy is it you don't get?

 

[Rogifan]

You are conflating arguments around IP and privacy.

I’m not conflicting anything. Apple uses privacy and security as their argument when they think it suits them and they use IP as their argument when they think that suits them.

 

[PlayUltimate]

Jobs didnt want an AppStore... he was talked into it.

He didn't want apps either. He wanted everything to be web apps. We can argue if that would have been a better solution. But there are lots of devs making a good living off of the App Store. That market would not be there if everything was a web app