Apple Says Apple ID Password on Shooter's iPhone Changed in Government Possession, Losing Access to Data

[vpndev]

Change your password often.

Better still, don't back up to iCloud. I use a cable, not even WiFi.

 

[mikefla]

Good thing FBI had top people on it, otherwise phone would have wound up in toilet with water damage.

Lol...

-Mike

 

[sanook997]

Shortly after the U.S. Department of Justice filed a motion demanding Apple comply with an order to help it unlock the iPhone 5c of San Bernardino shooter Syed Farook, Apple executives shared key information with several reporters, including BuzzFeed's John Paczkowski, about government missteps that may have led to reduced access to the iPhone in question.

According to Apple, the Apple ID password on the iPhone was changed "less than 24 hours" after being in government hands. Had the password not been altered, Apple believes the backup information the government is asking for could have been accessible to Apple engineers. The FBI has said it has access to weekly iCloud backups leading up to October 19, but not after that date, and it is seeking later information that could be stored on the device.Apple executives said the entire backdoor demand could have potentially been avoided if the Apple ID password not been changed, as connecting to a known Wi-Fi network would have caused the device to start backing up automatically so long as iCloud backups were enabled. Instead, with the information inaccessible, the FBI has requested tools that set what Apple calls a "dangerous precedent." The FBI wants a version of iOS that accepts electronic passcode input and removes passcode features like time limits and data erasure following failures.

Apple says the software would be the equivalent of a master key that could be used to access millions of devices (including Apple's newest iPhones and iPads) and has called the demand an "overreach" with chilling implications. Apple executives today also refuted the DOJ's claim that the company's refusal to comply is a marketing tactic, saying it was done based on "love for the country" and "desire not to see civil liberties tossed aside."

Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

Article Link: Apple Says Government Changed Apple ID Password on Shooter's iPhone, Losing Access to Data[/QUO

 

[HEK]

If the stakes weren't so high in this case vis a vis our privacy and security from the government goons I would actually be laughing.

These guys are flailing everywhere. They keep screwing up, and then are trying every bit of pressure, misinformation and total FUD they can throw up against the wall. The government can't stand it when someone is smarter than them.

Once again proves that if government is talking, they are either lying or only provide half truths. This whole thing would have taken on an entirely different tenor had FBI admitted they messed up. As usual government will try to bully their way through. Why would they even consider being honest with the people they work for, us.

 

[sanook997]

"A marketing tactic".....Polls show the vast majority of the free and not so free people of the world support Apple. This just goes to show you how detached our government has come from representing our freedoms and constitutional rights.

 

[iZac]

Does this mean that they already had access to the original Apple ID password or that Apple gave them the original password?

It seems Apple already gave plenty of assistance to them to bypass the encryption but the order to crack the software was too much.

 

[drumcat]

Hold up! So there is a way access data in the iPhone? **** that ****. Fix that bug Apple. I pay a lot of money for these reasons. Steve Jobs would never allow this to happen.

They could send unencrypted backup information to a "trusted" store. You do this daily, if you use iCloud.

 

[tgara]

What's on the phone that wouldn't be in the backups?

The user did not back up the phone in the weeks and days ahead of the attack. Info stored on the phone but not in the backup during that time close to the attack could provide text messages, photos, emails, etc. about any assistance the attackers received.

 

[drumcat]

It looks like they HAD the phone. If they changed the password BEFORE they cloned it, they have no one to blame but their own inept staff.

 

[HEK]

Maybe I'm confused - and I probably am having read it quickly. But if Apple could have helped them before the password change but won't after - really - what's the difference. Not that I'm saying that Apple should help the FBI. But how genuine is their statement? You're either going to break into someone's phone or not. What difference does it make if the password has been changed?

They have and will help with iCloud backups. Those are voluntarily transmitted depending how you set up your phone. Those backups are in the cloud on Apple servers. What government is now asking and has been after all along, is to hack directly into your phone wether or not you back up via iCloud. No one not even Apple can get into your phone at present. Government wants Apple to create something that can. Once done they and other counties will want to use it and once it gets out in open, as always happens, no one will be safe.

 

[Cory Bauer]

How is Obama going to escape from this mess? Is someone going to accidentally destroy the phone?

How did you get the impression that any of this has anything to do with the President of the United States?

 

[Tech198]

FBI - bad... Apple - Good


While FBI is loosing ground here on the users phone, Wouldn't looking at icloud backups on server be easier ? Since this falls under a separate class of requirement ? If this fails, then look at phone,,, not visa vera.. The same sort of (cannot hand this over) only applies to whats on the phone, it does not apply to cloud services. Apple even treats icloud servers in their TOS as separate.

I'd be starting at the easy part first, rather than go directly for a phone the FBI just cannot get at personally.

 

[HEK]

They only want that phones info, get it for them. what is more important privacy or life ?

With over a billion phones in worldwide use privacy becomes lives. Lots of governments want to know what their citizens are up to, and not to give them awards. And that doesn't even take into consideration your financial, and medical info, course you don't mind if hackers get that info right.

 

[MrAverigeUser]

I thought this was a good read, it provides another angle on this issue which is interesting.

yes, indeed.

If you think further, one could even imagine the many persons, enterprises, hackers and secret services will not only be able to read everything anyone stored on his iPhone but perhaps also be able to inject data on the phone.
You don´t like to have candidate XYZ to be elected? Just put some pedophilic photos on his iPhone and make them go out of his phone…

You could blackmail EVERYONE in ANY parliament or government on earth to do or NOT to do whatever you want and when you want. It´s called totalitarism.

 

[kcirtap00]

The backup being encrypted has nothing to do with the connection to iCloud. If that transmission isn't encrypted, it is going over the wire in plain text format.

Prime example: Wireshark your own interface, and visit a site over HTTP, then again over HTTPS. You will see the difference with encryption being enabled, as well as the output of the packets being transmitted.

BL.

Did you just have a class in networking where you used Wireshark and suddenly think you're an expert? There's no way that iCloud backups are done over an unencrypted connection.

 

[HEK]

How did you get the impression that any of this has anything to do with the President of the United States?

oh perhaps because the agencies that have been after Apple and others to create back doors all work for the president. FBI, Justice Department, Homeland security. Check your civics books, president is head of those departments.

 

[mikefla]

How did you get the impression that any of this has anything to do with the President of the United States?

Poor guy just because he's black all of a sudden everybody hates him and calls the guy names on top of blaming everything else on him. Getting rid of so much racism (not just against black people) and so much hate in this country would really benefit us all. I think the problem with a lot of Americans is they never left the US to travel anywhere, folks you really need to open up your eyes and go see the rest of the world.

-Mike

 

[Robert.Walter]

Time for the GOP and Dem candidate kiddies to stop squabbling and go home and time for Tim Cook for President.

 

[mikefla]

Did you just have a class in networking where you used Wireshark and suddenly think you're an expert? There's no way that iCloud backups are done over an unencrypted connection.

Hahaa yeah that is so true!

-Mike

 

[HEK]

I know I'm confused. I admit it so. But it doesn't seem like you're following me. Device or iCloud - doesn't matter in my equation. What matters is the data.

It matters great deal. Data in cloud is accessible. Data in phone is not. Each user can decide to back up to the cloud or not. For all those people who have nothing to hide they can back up to cloud and Apple, FBI, NSA, CIA, can see what you do. Turn cloud backup off and password your phone and no one can.

 

[mikefla]

oh perhaps because the agencies that have been after Apple and others to create back doors all work for the president. FBI, Justice Department, Homeland security. Check your civics books, president is head of those departments.

Just blame it all on the poor guy. Has he even said anything about all of this in public yet?

-Mike

 

[duffman9000]

Apple should continue to attack the FBI's arguments through the media. There isn't a gag order in place. Hammer away at their incompetence and untrustworthiness. I don't dislike Tim Cook, but right now Apple needs a orator. *SJ* would have been awesome at this.

 

[MrAverigeUser]

Nobody knows what's on it. It was not a personal phone (that was destroyed already). This was the work phone that belonged to his office. To be honest it's doubtful there's anything of importance connected to this case. As much planning as was involved, why would they leave evidence on this phone since it could be confiscated at any time because it wasn't his.
This matter is more likely a test. The authorities are using this as a test to see if they can circumvent security via the courts, which would open up a huge can of worms. It's not just this phone they are after. If they can force apple to unlock this phone and create a backdoor through the court system then this, by extension, will allow them to force all companies to create back doors in all OSs as precedence. As stated elsewhere, if the US govt can have it, every other govt will want the backdoor also. AS unscrupulous as the authorities in the US have seemed, imagine a situation where much less benign powers had the same ability. And It wouldn't be long until he process fell into the hands of NGO's as we hear daily about govt networks being compromised. This is a much bigger issue than one phone.
The majority of information on this phone can be recreated with information already at their disposal via the phone companies however the work involved would take analysts much longer to piece together than if they just had a master key.

That fact they have no idea what is on this phone, the fact that it's his work phone and the likelihood that it has no related information on it is high, shows me that it's less about the phone, and more about the future of encryption in the US.

You nailed it.

I thought exactly the same since this demand of "cooperation" and the fact that it was the phone of his employer got public. No terrorist would ever use this phone even for the least thing connected with illegal activities.

Everyone should think he had a simple cellphone with prepaid cards and surely made never cloud-related backups neither… if so, surely would be locally backup...

The FBI and whatever agency is involved take their citizens and apple for fools.

You should show that you are NOT…

Imagine McCarthy and Edgar J. Hoover had this almighty instrument when they tried to turn the USA in direction of Totalitarism...

 

[Brookzy]

Forgive me if this has already been answered...

Apple provided iCloud backup data to the FBI. But on this support document it states iCloud backup data is encrypted both in transit and on server.

So did Apple provide encrypted backup files to the FBI, or did Apple decrypt them and then hand over the data?

Or, was the server-side encryption a new thing and the iPhone in question was running an old version of iOS?

Or am I missing something?

 

[Robert.Walter]

Apple wanted the hovt to file its suit under seal so none of this would become public.

I assume it is because it did not want customers to know it could hand over iCloud backup data to the govt pursuant to a court order.

I bet many folks were under the impression that all info stored in iCloud was encrypted; I too thought that this was effected going on 2 years ago.

Apple better get cracking on encrypting the whole iCloud shebang before customers start to worry.