Apple Says iOS is Safer Than Android Because Sideloading Apps Isn't Allowed

[I7guy]

Hang on, since when do numbers matter? They don't seem to matter when talking about nebulous numbers of elderly people falling victim to side-loading app scams. To paraphrase, what this sounds like is there is a universe of elderly people being scammed. I'm sure there are, but then there are people who leave their cars unlocked with keys in the car.

One thing is provide stats on what's already known. There other is to guess at a future event. So yeah, in the future, I'm guessing there will be old ladys that fall victim to side-loading. However, in the here and now you should be able to quantify a universe of people who you have made a claim about.

I know, hence why I said as close to the line as possible, not over it.


Maybe I need to make this more clear and I'll do so by asking you what I asked someone else. Let’s imagine that tomorrow Apple announces support for side-loading and Google rescinds their support for it. Are you jumping camps to Android over that? Or are there simply more important factors keeping you in Apple’s ecosystem?

It's a hypothetical possiblity I could jump camps. I'm not fond of the strategy of scanning my phone and that and sideloading could entice me to android.

 

[djphat2000]

You can’t side-load on a device where that functionality isn’t turned in either, so I guess you’re still good

I think I addressed this when I said doors with chains and locks vs No door to have to chain and lock.

It’s just as safe by default anyway if side-loading is off. If you’ve got bars and locks and chains all over the door, it might actually be easier to gain entry through a window or even coming directly through the wall, rather than through the barricaded door.

Ok if you say so. I think most will take the easiest way in though. Less messy usually then taking down a wall.

In the U.S. Apple has over half the market and more than 3x the market share of the next highest tablet maker. It’s hardly surprising to anyone I would think that they would choose iPads

Great job by Apple. Since they don't have that many tablets to choose from compared to the rest of the manufactures out there.

Happens all the time in a society. For example, I’m forced to accept no side-loading if I’m on iOS.

You were not forced. It was that way since the beginning. It wasn't taken away. I'd would be forced to deal with the addition of it.

Because you’re already so exposed from Android users that adding iOS users has negligible impact. Think of it along the lines of herd immunity, but in reverse. With herd immunity, at a certain point disease ceases to spread, or at least transmission drops dramatically. In this situation, the fact that there are so many Android users with everyone’s contact info means you’re nearly maximally exposed anyway.

Thanks, I think. What if I just wanted the vaccine instead though?

You’re very welcome.

Cheers

Has side-loading on Android been hacked, whether on or off? And no, I use my computer wirelessly like everyone else. This isn’t 1998.

Again, more doors more chains and locks. Rather not have them.

Or I can keep advocating for the changes I want to see. Why does this seem so hard to grasp? It’s like you can’t handle that people may have a different view than you and will seek the changes they want to see.

You have full freedom to do that until it affects me. Hence you can very well buy another device. Vote with your currency. Like the rest of us do. Quickest way for any business to change is when money is not spent with them and they know why.

I have no issue with those that want these things. Zero, nada. You can want it all day everyday twice on sundays. But, you're not to force it upon those of us that don't. And a simple toggle switch isn't the answer in having it both ways. If you want to solve the issue, ask for a job at Apple and show them how to enable such a feature and how to properly secure it to everyones liking. But, you don't have to. I can't force you after all. No matter how differently I think or want it to be so.

I can’t help you get over that, I’m sorry. I’ll make sure to bring up the fact that life has trade-offs and that you can’t always get what you want if and when side-loading comes to iOS.

And I shall thank you for when it does. Your hard work will have paid off, and my eyes made more open because of it. Thank you in advance. I didn't know I wanted it till then.

It’s not wrong, it’s compromised. I’d also rather not use safety scissors, even though some people may need them for their own well-being.

yet both safety and non safe exist. hence choices.

See earlier comments on bars, locks, and chains.

See I'd rather not have to bother. Like many many many others.

 

[vipergts2207]

One thing is provide stats on what's already known. There other is to guess at a future event. So yeah, in the future, I'm guessing there will be old ladys that fall victim to side-loading. However, in the here and now you should be able to quantify a universe of people who you have made a claim about.

If it's a real and worthy concern, that universe should already exist today on Android. Please feel free to quantify now.

It's a hypothetical possiblity I could jump camps. I'm not fond of the strategy of scanning my phone and that and sideloading could entice me to android.

Oh so only a possibility then? It would appear that there are important things keeping you in the iOS ecosystem then, aside from side-loading concerns?

 

[djphat2000]

Maybe I need to make this more clear and I'll do so by asking you what I asked someone else. Let’s imagine that tomorrow Apple announces support for side-loading and Google rescinds their support for it. Are you jumping camps to Android over that? Or are there simply more important factors keeping you in Apple’s ecosystem?

It will depend. Since we don't have any way to know how this would work under Apple's system ahead of time. It's all just guessing. BUT, if the feature existed. I'd need to know how it's secured. To a level of comfort that I can or can't live with. Is it a deal breaker, meaning I jump ship and go to Android? Again, it depends. If I can live with it (secure enough), then no I don't jump ship. I'm not a fan of Android mostly at all. I think it's hideous, and would rather not waste my time tweaking it on end to my visual satisfaction.

If they can't secure it enough. I may (just winging it here shooting from the hip) severely limit how I use it. I may not keep my work (enterprise) email on it anymore. Since having that AND my personal email on my device may no longer be a good idea. I may move some of my communication to another app. I may switch which browser I use. Again, all depending on what side-loading entails. What kind of access (potentially) does 3rd party apps have access to. GPS location, photos, contacts, bio-metrics, etc.

I know you will say you can just keep the feature off. However all locks have keys, and when they don't have a key they get broken into and cracked. It's only a matter of time (I'm guessing 5 minutes after launch). There will be plenty of nation states and hackers looking to crack that side door to have full access to everything.

To add to this. Would I switch ultimately? Guessing no. I'd limit my use to just what I need my phone to do.
I'd not purchase yearly as I have in the past on new devices. I like new devices.
Apple for me has the better eco system. I wouldn't want to give that up at all. Limiting my exposer to minimize my security foot print would be how I would have to live. My choice has been taken from me. But, I can still avoid Android while longer.

 

[vipergts2207]

I think I addressed this when I said doors with chains and locks vs No door to have to chain and lock.

Ok if you say so. I think most will take the easiest way in though. Less messy usually then taking down a wall.

I mean if the door has bars, locks, and chains. That a lot of metal to get through. Also quite messy and probably harder than going through some wood and drywall.

Great job by Apple. Since they don't have that many tablets to choose from compared to the rest of the manufactures out there.

Agreed.

You were not forced. It was that way since the beginning. It wasn't taken away. I'd would be forced to deal with the addition of it.

Forced now or forced later is still forced.

Thanks, I think. What if I just wanted the vaccine instead though?

The only vaccine is not giving your info to Android users. Such an action is presently available to you.

Again, more doors more chains and locks. Rather not have them.

Right so hyperbole and more fear mongering. Surely this should've been hacked ages ago on Android. It would only take 5 minutes on iOS after all.

You have full freedom to do that until it affects me. Hence you can very well buy another device. Vote with your currency. Like the rest of us do. Quickest way for any business to change is when money is not spent with them and they know why.

I have no issue with those that want these things. Zero, nada. You can want it all day everyday twice on sundays. But, you're not to force it upon those of us that don't. And a simple toggle switch isn't the answer in having it both ways. If you want to solve the issue, ask for a job at Apple and show them how to enable such a feature and how to properly secure it to everyones liking. But, you don't have to. I can't force you after all. No matter how differently I think or want it to be so.

Actually I can keep advocating whether it effects you or not. Happens all the time with laws. Ask the women down in Texas about that reality. Sometimes it goes your way, sometimes it does not.

yet both safety and non safe exist. hence choices.

Still would with a toggle.

See I'd rather not have to bother. Like many many many others.

Doesn't matter if you'd rather bother or not. The more locks, bars, and chains on a door, the more attractive other routes of entry look.

 

[vipergts2207]

It will depend. Since we don't have any way to know how this would work under Apple's system ahead of time. It's all just guessing. BUT, if the feature existed. I'd need to know how it's secured. To a level of comfort that I can or can't live with. Is it a deal breaker, meaning I jump ship and go to Android? Again, it depends. If I can live with it (secure enough), then no I don't jump ship. I'm not a fan of Android mostly at all. I think it's hideous, and would rather not waste my time tweaking it on end to my visual satisfaction.

If they can't secure it enough. I may (just winging it here shooting from the hip) severely limit how I use it. I may not keep my work (enterprise) email on it anymore. Since having that AND my personal email on my device may no longer be a good idea. I may move some of my communication to another app. I may switch which browser I use. Again, all depending on what side-loading entails. What kind of access (potentially) does 3rd party apps have access to. GPS location, photos, contacts, bio-metrics, etc.

I know you will say you can just keep the feature off. However all locks have keys, and when they don't have a key they get broken into and cracked. It's only a matter of time (I'm guessing 5 minutes after launch). There will be plenty of nation states and hackers looking to crack that side door to have full access to everything.

To add to this. Would I switch ultimately? Guessing no. I'd limit my use to just what I need my phone to do.
I'd not purchase yearly as I have in the past on new devices. I like new devices.
Apple for me has the better eco system. I wouldn't want to give that up at all. Limiting my exposer to minimize my security foot print would be how I would have to live. My choice has been taken from me. But, I can still avoid Android while longer.

Look, you're finally starting to get it. Add a few more items and you'll fully understand why the rest of us aren't jumping ship over this one particular feature either.

It appears that what you're saying is that you'd most likely end up making compromises to stay with Apple's ecosystem. This may be news to you, but that's exactly what a lot of people are already doing. We'd like to make fewer of them. And yes it sucks that eliminating compromises for some may mean creating compromises for others, however this phenomenon is nothing new.

 

[Fred Zed]

I’d be more fearful of some apps that are available from their relevant app stores.

 

[I7guy]

If it's a real and worthy concern, that universe should already exist today on Android. Please feel free to quantify now.

So you want me to quantify some universe that you claimed? That's the epitome of a disingenuous post.

Oh so only a possibility then? It would appear that there are important things keeping you in the iOS ecosystem then, aside from side-loading concerns?

Sure there could be important things:
- Apple reverses themselves and disallows sideloading
- Apple reverses themselves and stops scanning

It was a nice pivot in an attempt to call me hypocritical, and then asking a question and not allowing for any middle ground; more of no shades of grey. That's not the way humans operate.

If someone posts:
- I hate the iphone
- I hate TC
- The iphone is overpriced
- Ios is too buggy
- Apple is hypocritical

Well then. You hate the company, management and products...why don't switch to android?

Your made up example allows no leeway for people because your scenario uses all or nothing words.

 

[I7guy]

Look, you're finally starting to get it. Add a few more items and you'll fully understand why the rest of us aren't jumping ship over this one particular feature either.

It appears that what you're saying is that you'd most likely end up making compromises to stay with Apple's ecosystem. This may be news to you, but that's exactly what a lot of people are already doing. We'd like to make fewer of them. And yes it sucks that eliminating compromises for some may mean creating compromises for others, however this phenomenon is nothing new.

I don't want sideloading, nor do I want the government forcing sideloading.

And yes I am making compromises on ios as I've never said it was 100% perfect. But, imo, I make less compromises on ios than android.

And why should the elimination of your compromise mean that now I have to suck it up to this compromise. As you said, this is nothing new.

 

[djphat2000]

I mean if the door has bars, locks, and chains. That a lot of metal to get through. Also quite messy and probably harder than going through some wood and drywall.

In the computer world they go thru the easiest way in. The house could be made of straw hence negating the heavily guarded front door. I doubt that's the case here though.

Forced now or forced later is still forced.

That doesn't make sense to me. Where you forced to purchase the iPhone before or after the store existed?

The only vaccine is not giving your info to Android users. Such an action is presently available to you.

Yeah, by tossing my phone away and stop paying the bill.

Right so hyperbole and more fear mongering.

It's not fear mongering. Its fact. Your iOS device is safer without side loading. Even if the number of side-loading hacks on Android was just 1. 1>0 Maths.

Surely this should've been hacked ages ago on Android. It would only take 5 minutes on iOS after all.

Yes, I did. For iOS.

Actually I can keep advocating whether it effects you or not. Happens all the time with laws. Ask the women down in Texas about that reality. Sometimes it goes your way, sometimes it does not.

Yea, and even though many can't afford to do so. They could leave Texas. They have 49 other states to choose from. Wether your pro one or the other doesn't matter. Choice somehow still exists.
And again, not saying you can't advocate for what you believe. Just that it can't interfere with my freedoms. And I choose to be free from this toggle switch.

Still would with a toggle.

No, under this situation I'd be going home with both the Safe and Non Safe Scisors. Just that I get to keep the non-safe scissors in a locked drawer in the package it came in. Thanks.

Doesn't matter if you'd rather bother or not. The more locks, bars, and chains on a door, the more attractive other routes of entry look.

Yeah, for sure. But, imagine a house with no windows, or doors or access of any kind. What would a robber think then? I'll crash into the roof for sure. Or, I'll smash into the side wall in back.

 

[vipergts2207]

So you want me to quantify some universe that you claimed? That's the epitome of a disingenuous post.

What universe I claimed?? It's a universe other people claimed actually. Where elderly people are falling prey to scams from side-loaded apps on Android.

Sure there could be important things:
- Apple reverses themselves and disallows sideloading
- Apple reverses themselves and stops scanning

Neither of those are the case in the question I posed.

It was a nice pivot in an attempt to call me hypocritical, and then asking a question and not allowing for any middle ground; more of no shades of grey. That's not the way humans operate.

If someone posts:
- I hate the iphone
- I hate TC
- The iphone is overpriced
- Ios is too buggy
- Apple is hypocritical

Well then. You hate the company, management and products...why don't switch to android?

Your made up example allows no leeway for people because your scenario uses all or nothing words.

Same exact thing you and others do when you keep parroting, "Just switch to Android. Just switch to Android. Just switch to Android." What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

[vipergts2207]

I don't want sideloading, nor do I want the government forcing sideloading.

You don't have to want it. That's fine.

And yes I am making compromises on ios as I've never said it was 100% perfect. But, imo, I make less compromises on ios than android.

And why should the elimination of your compromise mean that now I have to suck it up to this compromise. As you said, this is nothing new.

Because that's the way it goes? Or may go in this case.

 

[I7guy]

You don't have to want it. That's fine.

And by the same token, you can want it. And whether it happens or not is anybody's guess. My guess is no.

Because that's the way it goes? Or may go in this case.

Your compromise is not more important than mine. For example, those who wanted apple skewered in the epic vs apple trial. That's the way it went. And with this it will go a certain way as well. I don't have to be aligned with it.

 

[I7guy]

What universe I claimed?? It's a universe other people claimed actually. Where elderly people are falling prey to scams from side-loaded apps on Android.

Please reread your own posts.

Neither of those are the case in the question I posed.

What question? Would I consider moving to android if google disables sideloading and Apple enables it. Sure, I would consider it. That's the real question as I see it. I don't have to make a decision today, right now.

Same exact thing you and others do when you keep parroting, "Just switch to Android. Just switch to Android. Just switch to Android." What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Then you and others should stop with the unfounded and outlandish criticism and let's have an adult conversation about the talking points. My right to parrot doesn't "trump" your right to not have it said.

 

[vipergts2207]

In the computer world they go thru the easiest way in. The house could be made of straw hence negating the heavily guarded front door. I doubt that's the case here though.

Guess that would depend how Apple would implement such a change.

That doesn't make sense to me. Where you forced to purchase the iPhone before or after the store existed?

Reread my comment:

Happens all the time in a society. For example, I’m forced to accept no side-loading if I’m on iOS.

Phrased alternatively, I'm forced to use Android if I want side-loading. Either way you want to look at it, I'm still forced to do something I don't want to do.

It's not fear mongering. Its fact. Your iOS device is safer without side loading. Even if the number of side-loading hacks on Android was just 1. 1>0 Maths.

And realistically, that would be inconsequential. Of course, you also wouldn't have to side-load anyway.

Yes, I did. For iOS.

Interesting. So since it hasn't been hacked on Android in years, but would be in 5 minutes on iOS, Android must be more secure?

Yea, and even though many can't afford to do so. They could leave Texas. They have 49 other states to choose from. Wether your pro one or the other doesn't matter. Choice somehow still exists.

Ah, so what you're saying is that there are barriers in place, even if the choice is technically there. You'd be leaving behind family and friends and a job. Maybe you can't even afford it, but hey technically there's choice. That should make everyone feel better. 🙄

And again, not saying you can't advocate for what you believe. Just that it can't interfere with my freedoms. And I choose to be free from this toggle switch.

I can advocate for things that interfere with your freedoms. We've already established that, right above. To be clear, you're allowed to do the same though.

No, under this situation I'd be going home with both the Safe and Non Safe Scisors. Just that I get to keep the non-safe scissors in a locked drawer in the package it came in. Thanks.

Once again, you're quite welcome.

Yeah, for sure. But, imagine a house with no windows, or doors or access of any kind. What would a robber think then? I'll crash into the roof for sure. Or, I'll smash into the side wall in back.

Sounds more like a prison than a garden, sorry, I mean house.

 

[vipergts2207]

And by the same token, you can want it. And whether it happens or not is anybody's guess. My guess is no.

Shall we ask Vegas for odds?

Your compromise is not more important than mine. For example, those who wanted apple skewered in the epic vs apple trial. That's the way it went. And with this it will go a certain way as well. I don't have to be aligned with it.

To me they are. It's perfectly fine for you to disagree with that.

 

[vipergts2207]

Please reread your own posts.

Look, if you don't want to respond to things within context that I'm talking about with other people, you don't have to. If you don't want to do that, perhaps the best tact would be to stick to the conversation between you and I rather than the conversation between another person and myself. If you go back and reread that specific portion of the comment chain, you'll see why it's completely appropriate for me to ask for numbers, just like you did.

What question? Would I consider moving to android if google disables sideloading and Apple enables it. Sure, I would consider it. That's the real question as I see it. I don't have to make a decision today, right now.

Just the fact that it's a only consideration rather than a 'yes' indicates that there are factors that are important to you keeping you within iOS. Do you think that doesn't apply to others as well?

Then you and others should stop with the unfounded and outlandish criticism and let's have an adult conversation about the talking points. My right to parrot doesn't "trump" your right to not have it said.

We've had the conversation over 18 pages in this thread alone. And even though many valid reasons for not simply switching to Android have been outlined, the same tired old refrain continues.

 

[I7guy]

Shall we ask Vegas for odds?

Sure, let's do it.

To me they are. It's perfectly fine for you to disagree with that.

And I am perfectly fine, that you have an opinion where you see some abuses in the app store and want Apple regulated. I don't agree, but it's your opinion.

 

[4743913]

The news today is filled with all the reason we need to want sideloading and alternative app sources.

 

[I7guy]

Look, if you don't want to respond to things within context that I'm talking about with other people, you don't have to. If you don't want to do that, perhaps the best tact would be to stick to the conversation between you and I rather than the conversation between another person and myself. If you go back and reread that specific portion of the comment chain, you'll see why it's completely appropriate for me to ask for numbers, just like you did.

I'm good and I assume you are being genuine in this response.

Just the fact that it's a only consideration rather than a 'yes' indicates that there are factors that are important to you keeping you within iOS. Do you think that doesn't apply to others as well?

Reminds me of the old joke in Annie Hall:
- old person1: The food is awful.
- old person2: Yeah, and such small portions

We've had the conversation over 18 pages in this thread alone. And even though many valid reasons for not simply switching to Android have been outlined, the same tired old refrain continues.

I agree with you on this. It's very tiring to reiterate the same thing again and again. See above aphorism.

 

[makitango]

I would very much like for non-tech-savvy people to just wake up and don‘t spread fake news all the time, and supporting Apple in preventing both developers and users to find base without having to ask for permission.
It is not safer if you prevent sideloading, it only censors content and developers. Unsafe would be if for the first time in Apple history, Apple would implement a mechanism to circumvent all the privilege prompts which all apps have to request. No app on the operating system except the operating system itself can go haywire and exploit you or your data without permission.
Some people here are basically saying that their tale of security comes from the App Store. Well, have a mildly educated look at the developer tools and you find yourselves faced with a very hard truth that this is not so much of a true story.

There have been uncountable incidents of data violations and user exploits on the Apple App Store that it‘s a joke they can even tout the promised security. They do not look at the code. If they were, it would be a different story, but it would be more expensive to hire like a competent worker squad which are both capable to look in the right spots and be enough manpower to mount that insanely huge horse that the App Store has become. But such an investment would not do well with shareholders.

All those security holes that were exploited, they fixed with iOS updates, not with App Store submission review.

I think a big reason is opressive regimes that Apple would rather not lose the market access too (money), and allowing every developer to use the payment system they want (again, money).
What would be gained would be to help people in distress (hunted for sexual orientation, aspects of race, political views and/or expression of thoughts, and more) and this is far more important than to prevent grandma Martha from being able to go through 50 steps of barriers to activate the possibility of finally still not getting robbed because her bank already has an IT department.

 

[duffman9000]

except to when it comes to where I get my iOS apps... am I right?

Would you accept a console type of game distribution? It doesn't matter where I buy my PS5 games. Sony is still the ultimate arbiter of what games are licensed to run on the console and Sony will get its cut regardless of how a game is distributed.

Or do you want to install what you want ala home PC? We get that luxury on PC. We don't get that luxury on consoles. We also don't get the luxury on iOS. You may want that luxury on iOS, but you aren't entitled to that.

 

[4743913]

Would you accept a console type of game distribution? It doesn't matter where I buy my PS5 games.

modern console people are beneath the phone people and have no part in this discussion.

We also don't get the luxury on iOS. You may want that luxury on iOS, but you aren't entitled to that.

yet. 15.0.1 opened a lot of doors even if apple does not willingly allow sideloading so its basically 🍿 🍿 🍿

 

[duffman9000]

modern console people are beneath the phone people and have no part in this discussion.



yet. 15.0.1 opened a lot of doors even if apple does not willingly allow sideloading so its basically 🍿 🍿 🍿

This is typical. You don’t want to contribute to the conversation and try to change the subject.

 

[4743913]

This is typical. You don’t want to contribute to the conversation and try to change the subject.

read the entire thread before you respond next time. am I supposed to repeat myself just because you are late?