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This post provoked a realization… Apple started selling cheap M1 MacBooks (the slim wedge) through Walmart a few years ago. Those are new production units that Apple is selling through Walmart. So, truly, Apple will legally be required to support the M1 for some additional length of time. This may be another reason why Apple is possibly making a new A-chip cheap MacBook — so they can get M1 out of inventory… out of service and warranty coverage… and create one global cheapbook with a modern chip and modern warranty protocols and expectations similar to other “in-production” chips and tech.

Maybe….
The Apple Watch Series 3 continued to be sold brand new—by Apple, after the next watchOS release was announced to not support it. For around a month.

Warranty support has nothing to do with software support and they are absolutely not legally required to provide software updates no matter how late they sell a product.
 
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Apple is really the only reason they don't support OS's after a certain point. It is not the hardware. It is artificial and made to push more sales.
It is disingenuous to pretend there are no costs associated with continuing support of old hardware, on both the software and hardware side, not to mention the drag on the ecosystem when older, slower hardware must continue to be supported.

Arguably Apple supports old hardware for too long, given the complaints about slowness when that old hardware is upgraded to the last OS versions.
 
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The only mess of M chip was the support external screens, it took them a while to get it done in M3.
also, it’s hilarious how Microsoft didn’t yet finalized the license agreement for ARM to not let users by Mac hardware to run windows lol.
 
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Pure marketing drivel.
But what else do we expect them to say?

The IMHO dire Mac product matrix with an ailing (dead?) Mac Pro, no third-party GPU support, force-fed "all-in-one-or-nothing" Mac products lacking nearly any form of upgradeability, no internal 3 1/2" HD support for TimeMachine (and all thirdparty external HD boxes are a cable mess, noisy, ugly and seemingly don't even come in silver anymore forcing you into a "mutt Mac setup"), the lack of a real ultraportable (I am still using my 12" MacBook daily), a frustrating Apple desktop monitor selection, a Pro laptop that focusses on "thin at all cost" rather than powerful or ergonomic design (angled keyboard e.g.), a buggy macOS that more and more resembles a toyOS - from my point of view "the Mac has barely ever been worse!"
(You'd have to go back to the Gil Amelio days to have an even worse Mac portfolio IMHO.)

These days Apple's product matrix is optimized for profit, not for users, so what do we expect?
And of course other people's milage may vary. If you are perfectly happy with your current Mac - good for you!
Yet I seem to be drifting further and further away from Apple products. They don't fit my needs anymore.
 
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The M1 Max MBP was pretty much the best thing since sliced bread, and 20% improvements aren’t going to cut it in terms of motivating people to jump. Hoping the M5 Max is finally worth it, but at this point, unless it can do 8k noise reduction in Davinci with no lag, what would be the point? That is to say M1 Max was maybe too good…
 
Shift to Apple silicon has been great. Have the M1,M2 and M4 Macs and M4 iPad Pro. Very happy with the performance and waiting to see how the future chips will improve. Having Apple Silicon is also allowing Apple to release/update Macs more frequently.
 
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I agree with this approach. Odd years are new features and major OS changes. Even years are Snow Leopard type releases with performance improvements, better battery life, other improvements, etc.. A base MBA should have a minimum six year useful life....so, typical everyday users should still get three full cycles of updates. I think this approach would yield a better user experience and more customer satisfaction.
We were promised this when Snow Leopard was launched and we've had nothing but feature updates since.
 
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The M1 Max MBP was pretty much the best thing since sliced bread, and 20% improvements aren’t going to cut it in terms of motivating people to jump.
So, you're complaining that the $3000 laptop you bought only ~4 years ago isn't obsolete yet?

Apple really can't win :)

These expensive "pro" products aren't like iPhones - or even back-to-school MBAs - where many customers will habitually upgrade annually to match their new Fall wardrobe. M2,3,4 Max are essential so that new purchasers, people upgrading from Intel or people needing replacements aren't forced to buy 4-year-old tech - but it's no great surprise if they don't sell in droves to existing M-series users.

Realistically speaking, the as-yet-unseen M5 Max will mark the point at which M1 Max owner's wallets should start to loosen.
 
It is artificial and made to push more sales.
It is disingenuous to pretend there are no costs associated with continuing support of old hardware, on both the software and hardware side, not to mention the drag on the ecosystem when older, slower hardware must continue to be supported.
Also bear in mind that the #1 competitor, Microsoft, are traditionally funded from software sales and support - their own-brand hardware business is tiny c.f. Apple, and while obviously they get a tithe from every PC sold with Windows (which is a huge number of PCs) they also get a shedload of licensing income. MS have a large presence in the corporate market who tend to hang onto old hardware/software but will pay annual license/support fees, giving MS an income stream from supporting "legacy" systems. Also, Windows has been so dominant that 3rd party hardware makers are pretty much obliged to support Windows themselves to protect their own reputations.

As for Linux, legacy support comes from a mixture of "enlightened self interest" (people who need/use/profit from the legacy tech themselves) or, again, companies that make money from paid support.

So, of the big players, Apple are the ones most dependent on ongoing hardware sales to fund their software development. Where they do sell software, it's actually fairly cheap (compare Logic or FCP with Ableton or Adobe...).

Will be interesting to see whether or not the M series receives longer OS support than its predecessors. That aging army of M1 MacBook Airs could be passed along to friends and family members, possibly being their first Mac.

It should be easier to support when the whole system-on-a-chip is made to Apple's designs & specs and they're not so reliant on third parties like Intel, NVIDIA, AMD, Broadcomm etc. supplying updated/fixed drivers. There are also less permutations of hardware (bear in mind that, with Intel Macs, even something like "6th gen i5" was just an umbrella brand for a whole range of different chips. Often, the contemporaneous MacBook Air i5, MacBook Pro i5 "2 port" and MacBook Pro i5 "4 port" had completely different CPUs).

Meanwhile the Mac Pro hasn’t been updated in how long?
Pick one: Apple Silicon or Mac "Big Box'o'slots" Pro.

Apple Silicon has been a success for the laptops, tablets and small-form-factor systems (as has the A-series for iDevices, which shares a lot of tech) which are Apple's bread and butter.

Unfortunately, for a big, sweaty PCIe workstation (who's primary function is to support high-end PCIe GPUs) Apple Silicon is simply not the tool for the job - and the uncomfortable truth is that high-end workstations ceased to be Apple's bread and butter once it became possible to do serious video editing and 3D on cheap, commodity PC hardware - so Apple probably aren't going to invest in making a new, PCIe oriented chip.

Apple Silicon doesn't have the PCIe bandwidth to drive a bunch of high-end discrete, 16-lane GPUs because the whole point of Apple Silicon is to focus on iGPUs sharing unified memory and lots of on-chip Thunderbolt/USB4 connectivity.

The 2023 Mac Pro is a kludge, relying on the spare SSD interface on a M2 Ultra, for people who really need to plug in a bunch of mid-bandwidth PCIe cards - typically specialist A/V interfaces - for which TB4 couldn't quite cut the mustard. If that's not you, then stop worrying and learn to love the Mac Studio :) They've probably sold as many as they're going to & most of those people won't be in a rush to upgrade to M3. If a M5 Max comes out (which could update the PCIe to v5) then maybe - but I'd be unsurprised if the 2023 isn't just a last gasp while the A/V pro users upgrade to Thunderbolt kit.

Possibly Apple will go off in a different direction and make a "pro" chip focussed on AI creation - but that would be very different from the Mac Pro and - again - probably focus on Apple Silicon's strength by having the CPU, iGPU and Neural Engine sharing (lots of) unified RAM.
 
The hardware is great.

The software ....

Screenshot 2025-11-18 at 08.11.05.png
 
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I realize most folks don't fall in this camp, and yes there are tradeoffs, but I still miss the ability of the Intel Macs to dual boot into Windows for gaming.

It was an enormously useful and beneficial feature to have, for those who used it.
 
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Also bear in mind that the #1 competitor, Microsoft, are traditionally funded from software sales and support - their own-brand hardware business is tiny c.f. Apple, and while obviously they get a tithe from every PC sold with Windows (which is a huge number of PCs) they also get a shedload of licensing income. MS have a large presence in the corporate market who tend to hang onto old hardware/software but will pay annual license/support fees, giving MS an income stream from supporting "legacy" systems. Also, Windows has been so dominant that 3rd party hardware makers are pretty much obliged to support Windows themselves to protect their own reputations.

As for Linux, legacy support comes from a mixture of "enlightened self interest" (people who need/use/profit from the legacy tech themselves) or, again, companies that make money from paid support.

So, of the big players, Apple are the ones most dependent on ongoing hardware sales to fund their software development. Where they do sell software, it's actually fairly cheap (compare Logic or FCP with Ableton or Adobe...).



It should be easier to support when the whole system-on-a-chip is made to Apple's designs & specs and they're not so reliant on third parties like Intel, NVIDIA, AMD, Broadcomm etc. supplying updated/fixed drivers. There are also less permutations of hardware (bear in mind that, with Intel Macs, even something like "6th gen i5" was just an umbrella brand for a whole range of different chips. Often, the contemporaneous MacBook Air i5, MacBook Pro i5 "2 port" and MacBook Pro i5 "4 port" had completely different CPUs).


Pick one: Apple Silicon or Mac "Big Box'o'slots" Pro.

Apple Silicon has been a success for the laptops, tablets and small-form-factor systems (as has the A-series for iDevices, which shares a lot of tech) which are Apple's bread and butter.

Unfortunately, for a big, sweaty PCIe workstation (who's primary function is to support high-end PCIe GPUs) Apple Silicon is simply not the tool for the job - and the uncomfortable truth is that high-end workstations ceased to be Apple's bread and butter once it became possible to do serious video editing and 3D on cheap, commodity PC hardware - so Apple probably aren't going to invest in making a new, PCIe oriented chip.

Apple Silicon doesn't have the PCIe bandwidth to drive a bunch of high-end discrete, 16-lane GPUs because the whole point of Apple Silicon is to focus on iGPUs sharing unified memory and lots of on-chip Thunderbolt/USB4 connectivity.
They should’ve kept the Pro on Intel if their chips weren’t up to that level of performance and work
 
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If there’s a milestone from Tim Cook’s era that should be remembered, that’s the Apple Silicon Mac, how smooth the transition has been, and how shockingly efficient and brutally powerful they are now.

And, in a way, it’s like the Mac was finally returning to its roots. Sometimes I even think if Steve Jobs had this transition in mind a decade before it happened…
 
They should’ve kept the Pro on Intel if their chips weren’t up to that level of performance and work
Then they'd just be selling another Intel single-Xeon-W tower when generic PC hardware offers a far wider choice of systems tailor-made to specialist users' needs. The performance & power efficiency would be capped by whatever Intel's latest Xeon and AMD's latest GPUs could do. The only market would be existing Mac customers who were locked into specific MacOS software - when most of the industry-standard software is now on Windows or - increasingly - Linux. They'd be asking developers of "pro" Mac software to continue supporting Intel & AMD while also optimising it for Apple Silicon's iGPU/unified RAM architecture. They'd also have to keep supporting Intel for ever, which ultimately means that the Mac Pro OS would diverge from regular MacOS as the latter got Apple Silicon-specific features.

Apple have unique products in the MBP, Mini and Studio which gain an advantage of Apple Silicon's small + low power properties. It's not in their interest to keep making a "me too" Xeon tower.
 
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Then they'd just be selling another Intel single-Xeon-W tower when generic PC hardware offers a far wider choice of systems tailor-made to specialist users' needs.
And that’s different from the long line of Intel Mac Pros before it?

You forget: that’s what the users want. And if they’re gonna buy a Mac Pro, it’s because they want a Mac version of that product that runs Mac OS.
 
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And that’s different from the long line of Intel Mac Pros before it?
...because back then the rest of the Mac range was using broadly the same architecture (basically, PC clones with a license to run MacOS) so Apple didn't have to maintain two versions of MacOS and developers didn't have to support two architectures.

Also, remember that "the long line of Mac Pros before it" has been a story of releasing a shiny new Mac Pro then forgetting about it for half a decade before trying some completely different idea...

You forget: that’s what the users want. And if they’re gonna buy a Mac Pro, it’s because they want a Mac version of that product that runs Mac OS.

I suspect the users in question, while they are genuine, are a pool of people tied in to legacy workflows which is going to gradually dry up as they move to newer tech. If Mac Pros were flying off the shelves I suspect Apple would be a bit more enthusiastic about keeping them up to date.

Right now, if Apple invest money into a new computer line it's probably going to have "AI" written on it in large letters (for better or worse - they could call it the MacBubble...)
 
I suspect the users in question, while they are genuine, are a pool of people tied in to legacy workflows which is going to gradually dry up as they move to newer tech. If Mac Pros were flying off the shelves I suspect Apple would be a bit more enthusiastic about keeping them up to date.
Why would they be flying off the shelves if they don’t meet the needs of the users they’d appeal to?
Right now, if Apple invest money into a new computer line it's probably going to have "AI" written on it in large letters (for better or worse - they could call it the MacBubble...)
Apple really has lost their ability to lead the industry, haven’t they? For awhile they were the ones who set the tone and the standard. Now they just halfheartedly follow industry trends with no passion or particular attention to quality
 
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Just renewed AppleCare on both M4 MAX laptops after the first year. No issues. No issues with our two iPhone 16 Pro Max iPhones either. My M4 11" iPad and M4 MacBook Air are also working just fine. Seems like the mechanical QC is pretty good.

Software, on the other hand is another story. Wish the hardware QC chaps would share their ethic with the software group. :eek:
 
Why would they be flying off the shelves if they don’t meet the needs of the users they’d appeal to?

Apple really has lost their ability to lead the industry, haven’t they? For awhile they were the ones who set the tone and the standard. Now they just halfheartedly follow industry trends with no passion or particular attention to quality
What Apple has done in 26.2 is reveal a new method to tie multiple Mac Studios together with Thunderbolt 5 into a compute cluster to act as a single large compute device suitable for AI. Interesting approach.
 
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The hardware is great. more powerful than it's ever been barring probably a tiny few specialist MacPro custom builds. The firmware (MacOS) peaked in terms of robustness, efficiency and refinement with Snow Leopard 15 years ago.
Since then it's got middle-aged spread.
 
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