Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I'm not going to read through 10 pages of comments to see if this question has already been asked or answered, but...

Why would U.S. tariffs hurt Apple's global competitiveness? They don't actually have to import an iPhone into the USA to sell it in, say, India, no?

Because historically, when one country creates tariffs to gain advantages for itself, the other surrounding countries create tit-for-tat tariffs right back at them, and then trade slows down overall among the various countries involved. (I.e., if the USA ratchets up tariffs on something like hypothetical Indian-produced automatic-back scratchers, India responds by raising tariffs on American-produced automatic-back scratchers to make it hard for us to sell them over there. Both India and America in that instance end up selling fewer units to each other.

What's insidious is that if a particular product tariff isn't enough to be painful (say because the USA doesn't buy many automatic back-scratchers to begin with), India will also throw on some additional tariffs on other products we do buy (say, peanuts) and use that to make some economic pain--with the goal being not just of punishing sales in one industry, but creating enough widespread economic woe to slow the larger economy down in that country.

That last time America tried using tariffs to benefit itself in any significant way was with the Tariff Act of 1930. (aka Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act). Once we starting slapping tariffs on foreign goods, our trade competitors did the same on American goods, and it eventually escalated into tariffs on over 20,000 different products over 5-6 years. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot–Hawley_Tariff_Act).

Those tariffs didn't cause the Great Depression--other factors did that!--but they certainly worsened and deepened it. The industries that were using protectionist tariffs suffered counter-intuitively in spite of their protections, as did unrelated industries.

Historically, the other time America tried using tariffs for economic advantage in a specific industry was the Tariff Act of 1828, aka the one later called "The Tariff of Abominations" for the self-inflicted economic damage to the USA. The northern US states relied on manufacturing for their economy, but they were being undercut by cheaper and more efficiently manufactured European goods. So, as a protectionist measure to preserve US manufacturing jobs, congress created big tariffs against imported European products. European countries, of course retaliated by raising 38% tariffs on imported US goods, and as a kicker to make it sting, a 45% tariff on tobacco and cotton from the US. The latter two weren't aimed at US manufacturing, but at other industries like agriculture in southern states.

These tariff-wars historically spread out to more than one area, and they ultimately lead to diminished purchases and sales in both countries. So, it's not that US tariffs will hurt Apple's global sales directly. It's that the US tariffs will trigger counter-tariffs, depress multiple economic areas besides just electronics sales. Then, US Apple customers will have diminished buying power because of economic slumps here, while at the same time Apple will have fewer sales abroad.

In American history, I'm always puzzled by how we do the tariff-war thing, suffer disastrous results, say, "Wow--that was awful! Let's not do it again!. Then, like clockwork, about 90 years later, we try to do the tariff-war thing another time. It's like people don't pay attention to any history from more than 70 years ago.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Dave00
Good on Trump. All these global corporates now have to bring work to the West, out of almost-slave-labour countries.
[doublepost=1561382701][/doublepost]
Hold on, Tim Cook's obligation is to the stockholders. His job is to make them as much return on their investment as possible. He is not obligated to the Mac Community, the Apple Employee, or even the U.S.A.
That's the problem with Apple.
 
You do realise that this position alone, enforces inequality and (illegal) immigration? You find it normal that there are jobs that pay less than what you need to live. And your solution is to work harder. Meaning you either work two, three similar jobs, which will still keep you poor, and unhappy. Or you move up the corporate ladder, which is not for everyone, and implies the lower jobs are for losers. And in an ideal world with only middle (or high) income households, no American should do them. So, you need a lot of immigrants doing those jobs for you. Is that what you want?

The same with Apple: the hypocrisy of people is incredible. Claiming tariffs are good because it’s not ok cheap Chinese labour is producing our phones. While wearing a Made-in-China-MAGA hat.

All official MAGA hats are made in the United States. Facts matter.
 

It is true that some have left due to increase in salaries. As we can see today, companies do not want to pay higher salaries for employees. Over the years salaries in China have doubled as Xi Jinping wanted to pull China out of poverty. In other neighboring countries salaries are much lower now but the other problem of supply chain and parts exists now as well.
[doublepost=1561390578][/doublepost]
Good on Trump. All these global corporates now have to bring work to the West, out of almost-slave-labour countries.
[doublepost=1561382701][/doublepost]
That's the problem with Apple.

Xi Jinping has been pushing for higher salaries to pull China out of poverty. The companies from abroad like South Korea and US only want to pay slave like salaries for employees in China therefore when salaries rose some started pulling out. Not all of course but the numbers that have been pulling out because of this is not small. Those that did this for salary reasons relocated elsewhere in Asia. From what I heard was that those caught doing this for the purpose of saving on cost face punishment and consequences in return :confused: so they have to do this slowly and start to show loss of orders and loss in revenue and profits. China audits them when numbers drop.
 
All official MAGA hats are made in the United States. Facts matter.

That might even be true today .
It also is a fact that during the Trump campaign the official MAGA hats were made in China .

As for Apple, as said before, if they wanted to contribute they could just pay taxes .
That, and create real jobs in their home country beyond the inflated numbers they like to quote .
 
  • Like
Reactions: hagar
That might even be true today .
It also is a fact that during the Trump campaign the official MAGA hats were made in China .

As for Apple, as said before, if they wanted to contribute they could just pay taxes .
That, and create real jobs in their home country beyond the inflated numbers they like to quote .

Fake news...the official Trump campaigns MAGA hats have always been made in Carson, CA by Cali-Fame headwear. And actually every part of it: the fabric, the cord, the plastic strap, the fabric underneath, and the sweatband are made here in America. Remember, facts matter.
 
Fake news...the official Trump campaigns MAGA hats have always been made in Carson, CA by Cali-Fame headwear. And actually every part of it: the fabric, the cord, the plastic strap, the fabric underneath, and the sweatband are made here in America. Remember, facts matter.

Yup. The hats are now stitched together in the USA. But the hats’ fabric, bills and stiffeners are imported.

And all of the following Trump merchandising is imported from India. So, there’s still a long way to go for Trump to make America work again:

Armcahirs,Beds Bookcases,Plastic Boxes,Woo Boxes, Breakfronts,Bufflets,Bunk Beds,Benches,Work Bendhes Wood Barels Bed Frames Bedroom, Furniture, Domstic, Fireplace, Bellows,Non Metal Bins,Ventaian Blinds,Window Blinds Plastic Casters,Wood Carvings Bone Carving,Furniture Chairs, Chairpads,Beach Chairs Deck Chairs,Directors Chairs,Toy Chairs Chests Of Drawers Furniture Chests Toy Chests Furniture Tool Chests Hangers For Clother,Coat Hangers Coat Stands Corners Storages Racks,Corners Table Non Metal Clothes Hooks,Corner Platee Racks,Corner Desks Credenzas Couches,Cocktail Tables Seat Cushion Clothesracks,Filing Cabinets,Medicine,Furniture Cabinets,Cabinetwork,Kitchen Cabinets Cost Fitted Fabricfurniture Covers Infant Cradles Plastic Cradles Wood Crates Cupboards Curtain Rai Non Metal Curtain Rings Curtain Rods,Decorative Bead Curtains Desks Desk Chests,Diploma Frames Fresse,Drop Leaf Table Fixed Towel Dispensers Not Of Metal, Sales,Display Counters,Display Racks, Point Of Purchase Display Plastic Doorknobs,Wood Dooknobs,Plstic Drawer Lining Material,Drawers,End Tables,Fabric Figurines,Hand Fans Footstools Plastic Falgs ,Picure Frames,Foam Support For Flora Arrangements,Picture Frame Moldings Embrodery Frames,Furnityure Frames Bedroom Furniture,Bumper Guards For Furniture,Doors For Furniture, Lawn Furniture,Living Room Furniture,Office Furniture, Hampers,Headboard For Beds,Non Mertal Hooks,Home Furniture And Furnishings,Plastic Key Chain Tags,Plastic Knobs,Wood Letter Boxes Love Seats,Lamp Table Lawn Furniture, Furniture Mirrors Non Metal Mail Boxes,Hand Framed Mirrors,Non Metal Money Clips,Mattress.Magazines Racks,Medicine Cabinets,Night Table,Non Metal Storagetanks,Office And Desk Accessories, Occasional Table Attomans,Pillows Stadium Pillows, Playhouses For Pets,Playpens Portable Beds For Pets,Furniture Recliners Plate Racks,Wall Mounted Gun Racks,Non Metal Hat Racks,Furniture Screens Storage Racks,Shelving Soft Sculpture Wall Decoration Bone Scuptures,Wood Scupltures Plastar, Sculptures Wax Sculptures Booster Seats,Shower Curtain Clip And Holder,Settees Window,Shades Shelves, Table, Tea,Carts ,Furniture Toy Boxes,Umbrella Stands Vanity Tables Wood And Upholstered Furniture Wall Racks Wardrobes, Furniture,Namely Units For Use In Either Living Rooms Or Bedrooms Furniture.”

Source: India trademarks QuickCompany
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dave00
Yup. The hats are now stitched together in the USA. But the hats’ fabric, bills and stiffeners are imported.

And all of the following Trump merchandising is imported from India. So, there’s still a long way to go for Trump to make America work again:

Armcahirs,Beds Bookcases,Plastic Boxes,Woo Boxes, Breakfronts,Bufflets,Bunk Beds,Benches,Work Bendhes Wood Barels Bed Frames Bedroom, Furniture, Domstic, Fireplace, Bellows,Non Metal Bins,Ventaian Blinds,Window Blinds Plastic Casters,Wood Carvings Bone Carving,Furniture Chairs, Chairpads,Beach Chairs Deck Chairs,Directors Chairs,Toy Chairs Chests Of Drawers Furniture Chests Toy Chests Furniture Tool Chests Hangers For Clother,Coat Hangers Coat Stands Corners Storages Racks,Corners Table Non Metal Clothes Hooks,Corner Platee Racks,Corner Desks Credenzas Couches,Cocktail Tables Seat Cushion Clothesracks,Filing Cabinets,Medicine,Furniture Cabinets,Cabinetwork,Kitchen Cabinets Cost Fitted Fabricfurniture Covers Infant Cradles Plastic Cradles Wood Crates Cupboards Curtain Rai Non Metal Curtain Rings Curtain Rods,Decorative Bead Curtains Desks Desk Chests,Diploma Frames Fresse,Drop Leaf Table Fixed Towel Dispensers Not Of Metal, Sales,Display Counters,Display Racks, Point Of Purchase Display Plastic Doorknobs,Wood Dooknobs,Plstic Drawer Lining Material,Drawers,End Tables,Fabric Figurines,Hand Fans Footstools Plastic Falgs ,Picure Frames,Foam Support For Flora Arrangements,Picture Frame Moldings Embrodery Frames,Furnityure Frames Bedroom Furniture,Bumper Guards For Furniture,Doors For Furniture, Lawn Furniture,Living Room Furniture,Office Furniture, Hampers,Headboard For Beds,Non Mertal Hooks,Home Furniture And Furnishings,Plastic Key Chain Tags,Plastic Knobs,Wood Letter Boxes Love Seats,Lamp Table Lawn Furniture, Furniture Mirrors Non Metal Mail Boxes,Hand Framed Mirrors,Non Metal Money Clips,Mattress.Magazines Racks,Medicine Cabinets,Night Table,Non Metal Storagetanks,Office And Desk Accessories, Occasional Table Attomans,Pillows Stadium Pillows, Playhouses For Pets,Playpens Portable Beds For Pets,Furniture Recliners Plate Racks,Wall Mounted Gun Racks,Non Metal Hat Racks,Furniture Screens Storage Racks,Shelving Soft Sculpture Wall Decoration Bone Scuptures,Wood Scupltures Plastar, Sculptures Wax Sculptures Booster Seats,Shower Curtain Clip And Holder,Settees Window,Shades Shelves, Table, Tea,Carts ,Furniture Toy Boxes,Umbrella Stands Vanity Tables Wood And Upholstered Furniture Wall Racks Wardrobes, Furniture,Namely Units For Use In Either Living Rooms Or Bedrooms Furniture.”

Source: India trademarks QuickCompany

I don't blame him for making stuff outside of America...it's smart economically. But you're still wrong on the hats, sorry. Fake news buddy!
 
I don't blame him for making stuff outside of America...it's smart economically. But you're still wrong on the hats, sorry. Fake news buddy!
It’s smart economically, and hypocritical to the extreme. Thanks for making my point.
 
I don’t think you understand business.
And I don’t think you understand hypocrisy. Trump would be so much more credible if he made his business an example and moved everything to the USA. Or at least laid out a plan.

Yes, it would be much more expensive. But he has no problem expecting this from other companies. To the point where they go under.

If Apple were forced to move their iPhone production to the USA they wouldn’t survive a day.

Can’t you see this is all a show. It fits into his rethoric to always blame someone else for America’s problems. But if it would cost him, he’s nowhere to be seen.
 
And I don’t think you understand hypocrisy. Trump would be so much more credible if he made his business an example and moved everything to the USA. Or at least laid out a plan.

Yes, it would be much more expensive. But he has no problem expecting this from other companies. To the point where they go under.

If Apple were forced to move their iPhone production to the USA they wouldn’t survive a day.

Can’t you see this is all a show. It fits into his rethoric to always blame someone else for America’s problems. But if it would cost him, he’s nowhere to be seen.

Like I said, I don't think you understand business.
 
It costs them $200 in parts they wholesale purchased. Apple doesn't manufacture individual components. They merely designed the OS and the SoC, the SoC isn't made by them either. To build everything American, Apple would either have to buy and transfer foreign companies provided major nations cleared the deal or build them out themselves. We're talking hundreds of billions, with recurring billions in costs each year.

And why should executives not be able to take $18M in TOTAL COMPENSATION each year? Why should they take say $1M and put the rest to their workers or invest in other things? That's almost socialist in nature.


Lol Apple will definitely NOT have to go through all of those hoops to assemble iPhones here in the USA. They just built a state of the art fully functioning facility in california.

Sure, it’ll be a hefty investment at first, but this is Apple we are talking about. Not Ford. They have to spend billions ? Okay. They will still have plenty of billions left. It will literally not even cause a surface scratch on their money.
 
Like I said, I don't think you understand business.

I think you're missing the point completely of what the other poster has been saying.


While what Trump does, using foreign manufacturing is good business, Trump is no longer just a business man. He's the president of the USA.

He's acting duplicitous in the matters of foreign versus local employment and manufacturing. He operates his businesses internationally to take advantage of cheap labour and manufacturing, (good for his business), while clamouring that it's bad that businesses and trying to force other companies to stop acting the same way he is acting.

It's completely duplicitous hypocritical in nature. Whether or not it's "good business" is irrelevant. Trump is acting like a dictator with the "Do as I say, not as I do" in regards to how others operate their business.

keep shouting the other user doesn't know business... it's irrelevant to the topic at hand.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kipwheeler
Lol Apple will definitely NOT have to go through all of those hoops to assemble iPhones here in the USA. They just built a state of the art fully functioning facility in california.

Sure, it’ll be a hefty investment at first, but this is Apple we are talking about. Not Ford. They have to spend billions ? Okay. They will still have plenty of billions left. It will literally not even cause a surface scratch on their money.

I don't think you read my reply without jumping the gun. Apple licenses ARM and designs their own ARM processors. They design their own OS. They design their cases. Everything else is designed and built for them or are off the shelf components.

Apple would need to either develop or build from scratch:

1. Their own battery manufacturing plants, yes, plural. As well as design their own battery systems from scratch. Source their own battery chemicals and minerals.

2. They would need to build out and be able to manufacture RAM chips.

3. They would need to manufacture their own PCBS if they choose not to use Taiwan as a source.

4. They would need to design and develop their own LCD and LED technology to not rely on the South Koreans or Japanese or Chinese.

5. They would need to use American CNC shops for their Mac Pro or build out facilities to drill holes. Ideally, they could also make their cases for their phones here as well as their other hardware. There irony here being that there's a rumor Apple will outsource the Mac Pro case construction to Asia because American will cost too much.

6. Gorilla Glass can be kept as a supplier; They're American and manufacture in the US.

7. Apple would need to build its own processor fabs for their A~ series processors. This alone will cost billions. Fab 42 in Chandler began construction in 2012 after being announced in 2011. Fabs are built in phases so they can get up and running. The last portion of Fab 42 cost around $7b. Each year maintenance costs billions. To retool a fab, it costs billions. In other words, Apple could spend anywhere from 3-10B a year retooling their facility to accommodate a new processor. It's infinitely cheaper to have TSMC build their processors for them. Apple would also need to invest billions into researching nodes. This costs a lot of money. To give you an idea, TSMC has promised Apple to spend $25B on a 5nm facility. That's for the fab itself. Not the 5nm R&D they'll have to do if they haven't started yet. That will also add anywhere from $10-25B in costs.

8. Apple would need to build their own power supplies in the US. They could probably use Japanese components.


Any transition of this scale would take a decade or more to complete, and would cost Apple hundreds of billions in investment. TSMC spends more than Intel and Samsung Electronics combined. And they're a mere foundry.
 
Last edited:
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.