Face it, Apple would never do that. Just get an Android phone.
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Apple Says 'We Won't Make an Exception' for Epic Games in App Store Dispute
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Face it, Apple would never do that. Just get an Android phone.
This is the absolute truth. It's all about cash.
Epic lowered the price in their own payment system with 20% and Apple's share is 30% so that means Epic would gain 10% more profit using its own payment system and they're selling it like it's for the consumers and other developers. In the end the only thing that matters is the board meeting where they can tell they made more money that the same quarter of the previous year.
Game developers already don't take Apple platforms seriously. I'm worried that with xCloud and now this, that Apple will never be considered a platform game devs want to be on themselves. I'm working on a Mac / iOS 3D modeler that is more productive than Blender for mobile game workflows, I'm considering trying to rework the app to be cross platform despite the fact that it will be a tremendous amount of work (Vulkan backend, new UI framework, port of OpenSubdiv to Vulkan).
Spend time in game developer forums and the Apple hate has been going strong for years. I really wish Apple would work to really try to attract the only group of creative users that are strongly in the Windows camp.
Spend time in game developer forums and the Apple hate has been going strong for years. I really wish Apple would work to really try to attract the only group of creative users that are strongly in the Windows camp.
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Before you buy something at a retail store do you first check to see if you can purchase it directly from the manufacturer so they can make all the money on it? I could be wrong but I highly doubt you purchase all of your Apple products directly from Apple. It sounds to me that since you’re a developer your viewpoint is a little cloudy. Devs or manufacturers aren’t going to to lower their price point if we buy directly from them. So why does it really matter where we buy it from?
I shouldn't have to. I should be able to use an iOS device and run the software and apps on it I want. There is no other acceptable position.
Or maybe Epic can pass some more savings to their clients by just giving away those immensely expensive V-BUCKS ?
I know they really are fighting for the consumers to get better prices for those goods , 8$ for 1000 vbucks is a steal! they cant possibly sell it for 5$ now cant they ? they will be selling those v-bucks at a loss!!!
You know what , let me try and get those V-BUCKS from a different V-BUCKS exchange , mmm cant find one.
never mind , let me sell my skins in the non Epic store as they want a cut from me, mmmm cant do that ....
Maybe Epic can even rain those V-BUCKS on those kids for free!! , let them have a field day!! Apple gets 0 out of those free v-bucks!! lets go consumers!!!
If you don’t like it, don’t use it. Apple’s software, Apple’s rules. 🍎
So, I was thinking about this yesterday.
I do not disagree on some points you make (I would love to have xCloud and Stadia on my iPhone and iPad).
When it comes to Amazon, though, I would argue against that for their physical goods app. You cannot buy digital goods through their Amazon app, but you can buy physical products through it. I think that is the difference, really. Amazon sells physical goods through the Amazon app and not digital ones. I am also not even sure if you can sign up for Amazon Prime through the iOS app (haven't tried because I already have a Prime account that I have had for years). I also know something about the rentals, and I cannot speak for that outside of thinking it is a little odd.
When it comes to Netflix vs the Stadia/xCloud thing I think it is a little bit weirder than I originally questioned. When it comes to Netflix vs the game streaming it is kind of a political thing: parents and groups blame video games for violent behaviors in children, so a parent who allows their child to access xCloud or Stadia games without knowing anything about the ratings will then blame the games for how their child is whether it is violent or any other way. But for Netflix, people get a better sense of not blaming the shows and movies for the way children and teens turn out. It isn't even like you can sign up for Netflix on iOS anyway, so that part of it has nothing to do with money.
Just something I was thinking about the other day and I could be wrong about it all and that is fine. I am open to learning something new.
I have no idea what the complaining is about. 30%+ markup is standard in most industries. Nearly everyone knows that wine is marked up about 100% in restaurants. Is this anti-winemaker? The difference here is that the developer sets the retail price and Apple takes a cut. If the developer thinks his work is worth $5/app then sell it in the iOS store for $7.14. Apple also provides all of the infrastructure, payment processing, and the SDK. If a developer wants to avoid the 30%, they can easily do so by using their own payment system outside of the app. Amazon does this for Kindle. Netflix does this for their subscribers. Epic and Spotify could do that as well. But they want the ease of using the iOS platform for purchases without paying for it. And instead whine about the rules that they agreed to.
Apple has never said this was just about payment security. It’s also about simplicity for its users. Payments and subscriptions going through one central resource make it easier for users to keep track of. Apple’s perspective is making the payment system super easy through them provides less “resistance”, making it more likely customers will make purchases since they’re simple and easy to do, therefore making developers more money. It also prevents shady practices by apps who might not honor your request to cancel your subscription and keep billing you.
Wish Apple the best here. Forcing a company to let others make millions off your hard work is wrong.
I pay a commission to a software I use based on what I make....If I charge more or do better work that sells more they make more. But their software is amazing and I make a lot of money using it.
Epic games wants to be able to play (and get developer support) and pay nothing. Sure they made a great game, but they haven’t made a great phone.
I pay a commission to a software I use based on what I make....If I charge more or do better work that sells more they make more. But their software is amazing and I make a lot of money using it.
Epic games wants to be able to play (and get developer support) and pay nothing. Sure they made a great game, but they haven’t made a great phone.
So basically when you buy something at the mall you should pay only to the manufacturer and not to the distrubutor ?
Are people become mad in 2020 ?
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This is the Apple I love: protect the customer 100%.
Epic should implode right now IMHO.
I mean I’m excited to see how they are going to deal when Apple wins yet again lol.
The astroturfing is strong in this. Would be nice if Apple dropped their rates, but 30% is the standard rate these days.
Lets look at some of Fortnites biggest sales areas - The Google Play store (30%) and the Microsoft Xbox store (30%) and the Sony Playstation Store (30%) and the Nintendo Switch Store (30%) - this is the standard. Epic calling them out like they are outliers in all this is not reality.
Lets look at some of Fortnites biggest sales areas - The Google Play store (30%) and the Microsoft Xbox store (30%) and the Sony Playstation Store (30%) and the Nintendo Switch Store (30%) - this is the standard. Epic calling them out like they are outliers in all this is not reality.
What are those ranges (5-15%) based on? Do you have insider information regarding how much it costs Apple to run the app store (i.e., what their specific margins are for the app store and not broader company products and services)?
In 2019, Apple reported paying developers $35 billion, which means the app store had revenues of around $50 billion (this isn't exact though because many apps drop down to 15% commission after the first year). We can safely say Apple had at least $42 billion in revenue so the true range of app store sales is 42-50 billion). Apple therefore earned $7 - 15 billion.
If Apple charged only a 5% fee (which would be significantly lower than any other company in the world with a similar service), they would earn $2.1 - 2.5 billion. Does running that app store cost less than that? Do we allow any room for profit margins? Apple also doesn't receive money for truly free apps but they still provide a platform and general background support of them.
Let's go with 15% (which a number of subscription apps already receive). Apple receives $6.3 to 7.5 billion. Is that enough to run the app store? Maybe. Does it leave much margin? I don't know.
About 10 years ago it was estimated Apple ran the app store at just over break-even: https://www.cnet.com/news/figuring-apples-app-store-gross-profit/
While it's unlikely (but possible) they are still doing that, none of us know how much it costs Apple to run the app store. Saying Apple "should" make the commissions lower is just guessing.
Here's a way to look at it and make a more realistic criticism of Apple's app store fees. This isn't valid but is more valid than just making blanket statements about what the fees should be. Apple has high margins on services (but not necessarily the app store specifically). However, they have company-wide net margins around 20%. This means, if we are going to make up numbers about how much commission Apple should receive, we can safely reduce the current fees by 20%. The new fees are 24% for the first year and 12% after that for ongoing subscriptions. Again, we don't know if Apple would be losing money at those rates because we don't know how much money Apple makes from the App store (we can guess general revenue but don't know profits).
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Epic pays 0% on their free app unless someone buys a IAP of some cosmetic item. If Epic do somehow win this, it will likely mean the end of free apps as free apps would end up freeloading on the AppStore. Hosting an app and its updates is not free. It costs many times what it costs to just process payment.
For iOS itself yes. For developer tools, App store maintenance (servers, bandwidth to host all of it and downloads, reviewing etc) no.
There begs the question. Are the Apple complainers willing to finance the App Store so that devs can make more money? How about subscription to use the App Store? Since 90% or more (guessing) of apps are free and Apple makes $0. Im not, I can tell you that.
Its easy to complain when your money isnt at stake. But the paid apps pay for your free apps too. If there isnt enough to cover then all must pay something, and there goes a ton of apps out of existence.
Think about it this way. Apple took in $50 billion from the App Store in 2019. They paid developers $35 billion, so they grossed $15 billion. I have no clue what their operating costs are, but I would guess high in terms of the servers, bandwidth, review team, curating the store, maintaining the app, etc etc.
EDIT- see above same answer I see.
Epic made 1.8 billion of Fornite ALONE. 1 game. 12% of Apple's TOTAL App Store revenue on 1 game; scamming little kids into expensive upgrade packs that cost pennies on the dollar to code one time. If it was an honest business then sure, but sheesh this is pressuring young minds into being addicted to microtransactions. The South Park microtransaction game episode is a perfect mockery of this issue.
Who has the moral high ground here? Billing to offer a legit service or scamming children/teens via peer pressure and other psyops?
Apple is 100% entitled to make profit, even if they claimed they were going to run it at cost. That isnt legaly binding or anything. That was also when there were a few thousand apps of storage/moderation at that time, not millions. The scale of the operation has also increased exponentially and thus costs
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Like Apple is paying taxes accordingly.
Don’t be selling drinks inside my bar without giving me a cut...
if you think the cut is too big then go to another bar down the street or start your own bar!
its been the same game for centuries!
I don’t get all the moaning as if everyone’s a charity. They are ALL businesses out to make money. Stop caping for them!
if you think the cut is too big then go to another bar down the street or start your own bar!
its been the same game for centuries!
I don’t get all the moaning as if everyone’s a charity. They are ALL businesses out to make money. Stop caping for them!
You have no idea what kind of financial arrangement Apple has with Amazon. The problem is you and Epic who made a decision to develop on a platform with rules and now that Epic and possibly you have a platform to sell your games you want the rules to not apply to you. No one will miss you or Epic.
All that is 100% irrelevant to the subject at hand.
Why ?
If you buy a ferrari can you ask for a mercedes engine ?
If you buy an iPhone you know that only app from the app store are available: if you don't agree don't buy Apple.
There is a ****** OS called Android so you can use that one and don't spend money on Apple.
Apple cannot control the customer experience if multiple payment systems are involved. Have you looked around stores that carry other peoples products like Amazon and Walmart? Guess what you have to pay them directly and there is no way to get around this. Sure you can use your MC, Visa, or AMEX, but it is run through the hosting store because they are ultimately responsible for the transaction.
And why should Apple allow that?
This is the first time I've waded into this discussion of the Apple-Epic standoff since it started. But I've been following along, and the responses by the pro-Epic crowd here have been borderline ridiculous, if not disingenuous.
So Epic should get a free lunch by having their game app on the app store and receive all the profits for in-App digital purchases? That's the argument I'm reading around here, and it's asinine. That might fly in the free-wheeling PC environment, where gamers buy or build their own systems, and install Epic's game launcher to play Epic's games.
But iOS isn't Epic's property, nor is the App Store, nor are iOS devices.
You want to play in Apple's or Google's environments, which they built and they maintain, you play by their rules. It's a simple concept, yet it seems many people have difficulty with it.
And the whole "but Amazon" argument. Okay, and? Apple still takes a 15% cut from Prime Video rentals / purchases. And that's in line with Apple's commission cut for services after one year: 15%. Apple doesn't take commissions on in-App purchases from Amazon, the shopping app, because those are physical goods. Just like it doesn't from any other shopping app where you buy physical goods.
Those who are unclear, they can read Apple's commission policies here:
https://www.apple.com/ios/app-store/principles-practices/