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Apple Screws Me Twice: Won't Let "Authorized User" Upgrade

SuparShadow

SuparShadow

macrumors member
Original poster
Jun 19, 2003
73
0
New York, NY
So my 1st gen iPhone was damaged in some heavy rain a few days ago and, knowing I was eligible for an upgrade and with a couple of Apple discount coupons and gift cards burning a hole in my wallet that were sent to me after a less-than-stellar Genius Bar experience in March, I decided to go and cash in on a 3GS.

...Then Apple screwed me again.

The basics:

- I'm on an AT&T family plan;

- I'm not the primary accountholder, but I'm an authorized user;

- I was able to upgrade from a RAZR to a 1st gen iPhone in 2007 in an Apple Store with no problem whatsoever (presumably because the iPhones were unsubsidized and you activated them at home instead of in the store?);

- Back in March, my MBP's logic board died, which snowballed into a *****torm of customer service at the SoHo store's Genius Bar, which I sorted out after calling customer relations and emailing some Steve & Co

- One of the corporate execs I emailed was Ron Johnson, the SVP of retail. I Cc'd the SoHo General Manager on that e-mail, who promptly responded by calling me, apologizing, and sending me a 10% discount coupon and a $25 gift card for my next purchase to make up for the ****** experience.

- Today, I went into the same Apple Store, waited in line for over half an hour to see a specialist, and was told I couldn't buy a phone because I'm not the primary accountholder. I was also told the 10% coupon wouldn't be honored for the iPhone.

- The AT&T Store will let me upgrade and order a phone, no problem, but they won't honor the coupon or the gift card, obviously. Plus they're out of stock, so I'd have to wait for it to be shipped.

- I can pay $599 for an unactivated phone.

- I can order it on apple.com, but still no dice on the 10% coupon.

- I can have the primary accountholder (my mom, who lives in California), go into an Apple Store, purchase and activate the phone, and ship it to me. I'd be without a working phone in the meantime, since mine will be de-activated when the new one is activated, and I'd have to reimburse her for the phone and shipping costs. I'd also either have to mail her the gift card, or find a way to apply it retroactively. Again, no dice on the 10%.

- I'll probably end up ordering the phone off apple.com, since I can at least use the gift card there (which I can't with AT&T), and obviously the Internet has no way of verifying whether the accountholder or an authorized user is placing the order, but nevertheless, I thought I'd give Apple a piece of my mind following the second miserable Apple Store ordeal in three months:

(I should add I hadn't even stepped foot in an Apple Store or purchased any Apple products since the problems with my MacBook, so we're two for two so far. Also, FYI, "MaryMichelle Timbang" is is AT&T Wireless' president of executive customer service.)


Begin forwarded message:

From: SuparShadow
Date: June 29, 2009 4:24:47 PM EDT
To: Steve Jobs <sjobs@apple.com>, Tim Cook <tcook@apple.com>, Ron Johnson <ronj@apple.com>
Cc: MaryMichelle Timbang <MT6973@att.com>
Subject: More Apple Retail Store Issues...

Mr. Jobs, Mr. Cook, Mr. Johnson, Ms. Timbag,

I'm very disappointed to be addressing your corporate office again regarding a concern with my experience at your retail stores.

This afternoon, I visited the SoHo Apple Store to purchase an iPhone 3GS. I'm an existing AT&T customer, and have been a proud owner of the original iPhone since its launch in November, 2007, as well as the owner of several other Apple products (a 2006 MacBook Pro, an iMac G4, several iPods, etc.)

A few months ago, I had an issue with the logic board in my MacBook Pro (serial no. XXXXXXXXXXX, repair ID XXXXXXXXX, case no. XXXXXXXXX) which I took to the Genius Bar at the SoHo store. Long story short, the Genius Bar checked my computer in, assured me the repair would be covered under AppleCare, kept the computer for a week for "diagnostics," and didn't tell me until a week later (and after several calls complaining about the delay) that the repair would not be covered under AppleCare and that I would have to pay $800 to fix my computer.

Fortunately, I was able to have that issue resolved after contacting the corporate customer relations and bringing the matter to Mr. Cook's, Mr. Johnson's, and the store manager's attention. The store manager graciously extended his apologies for my poor experience, and even sent me a 10% discount coupon for my next purchase and a $25 gift card!

Today, I was looking forward to applying those courtesies to my new iPhone. However, after waiting in line for over half an hour to see an iPhone specialist, I was then told that the 10% coupon was not applicable to iPhones and, worse yet, that I wouldn't be able to purchase the phone because I wasn't the primary accountholder on my family's AT&T account.

While I obviously understand the reason for this policy (to protect the accountholder), this wasn't an issue whatsoever when I purchased my original iPhone in 2007. Back then, all I had to do was show my ID, provide the accountholder's social security number, and pay for my phone. And, as far as I can tell, that process would be no different if I ordered the phone via apple.com.

The specialist I spoke to also suggested ordering the phone via the online store, or having the primary accountholder (my mother) visit her local Apple Store, purchase the phone, and ship it to me. That, however, is pretty unfeasible — I'm a college student who attends school in New York City, and my mother lives in Pasadena, Calif. Such a scenario would be of great inconvenience to her and me — I'd have to mail her the $25 gift card and reimburse her for a $200 phone while she takes the time out of her day to go to the Apple Store, buy the phone, activate it, pay to ship it back to me. And I, meanwhile, would be left with a nonfunctioning original generation iPhone until the new one arrived. Not exactly the most efficient or pragmatic solution.

The specialist also suggested paying $599 for the unactivated phone, which was clearly out of the question since I'm, by all means, eligible for the upgrade price.

Immediately after leaving the Apple Store, I visited the AT&T store, where the representative confirmed that I was eligible for the upgrade and, as an authorized user on the account, I also had the authority to extend the contract on my phone line and order a new phone. Unfortunately, the AT&T store was out of stock of the phones, and (understandably) won't honor any of the Apple gift cards or discounts.

This situation shouldn't reflect poorly on the SoHo store by any means; the specialist was as helpful as she could be, and I've e-mailed to the general manager who had assisted me when I had problems with my MacBook Pro and their genius bar, who was similarly apologetic but basically said it was out of his hands since it's part of the agreement between Apple and AT&T.

Upon arriving home, I called AT&T and spoke with a representative, who again confirmed I was eligible for an upgrade, checked the policy on in-store purchases at the Apple Store, but even went so far as to call the SoHo store itself to confirm my authorization and try to figure some sort of workaround out. Unfortunately, the Apple employees gave him the same answer, which I suppose leaves me no choice but to forfeit the 10% discount coupon, apply the $25 gift card online, and wait to have it shipped to me.

That being said, I felt it necessary to express my extreme disappointment in my poor experience with Apple yet again.

I'm generally very forgiving about these kinds of things, so my first set of problems with the Genius Bar back in March was a great surprise to me. And while the fact that today's experience occurred in the same store
is a coincidence (although it would've been nice if I wasn't asked to wait half an hour only to be sent away empty-handed), the fact that I've once again experienced nothing but problems and inconveniences is doing very little to improve my opinion of Apple's retail operations. (And on my first visit back to an Apple Store since the debacle with my MacBook Pro, to boot.)

I was always under the impression that Apple is supposed to make things simple and user-intuitive. It seems like pretty basic business sense to make things easier for the customer, not more complicated, and it's disgraceful that anyone should have to rattle the chain of corporate command to see results, let alone to accomplish something as simple as purchasing a product.

I walked into that Apple Store this morning with every intention to give your company my business, but Apple is the one who said "no, thanks." Sadly, after yet another difficult and disappointing experience, I'm not too inclined to give it another try.

Thanks for your time,
Click to expand...

I'd be curious to know if anyone here has had any similar problems with upgrading their phone if they're not the "primary accountholder." Seems like a pretty silly policy, considering it's not even consistently enforced between Apple and AT&T, or even Apple's own brick-and-mortar and online stores.
 
xerenthar said:
it's well known you need to be the primary account holder
Click to expand...

Well, yes, I certainly realize that now. But having an accountholder and an authorized user in separate locations isn't an uncommon situation, and, frankly, requiring the accountholder to be present is a stupid and arbitrary policy. It wasn't in place with the original iPhone, and AT&T has no problem letting authorized users upgrade. It's just Apple that's being anal retentive about it.

It's poor communication/collaboration between AT&T and Apple at the expense of the customer, frankly.
 
xerenthar said:
it's well known you need to be the primary account holder
Click to expand...

This is true. I couldn't in store (same problem as you--account is in dad's name, I'm in school) so I had to order it online. However, my original phone worked perfectly until I received the phone and activated it at home. It's a bust on the 10% coupon, but you can at least use your $25 dollar coupon, and use the 10% off thing for a case, I guess.
 
How about just getting your own plan, so you'll be the primary account holder.
 
TSX said:
How about just getting your own plan, so you'll be the primary account holder.
Click to expand...

For the voice coverage I need versus the plans they offer, as well as the higher taxes and fees in New York over California, it'd be too expensive.

But like TMar said, even AT&T doesn't make a distinction between "primary accountholder" and "authorized user." (Except, I think, in cases where you spin a line off as its own account or close the entire account). There's no identifiable reason that Apple is enforcing a higher standard than the service provider in this case, and there's no clear reason Apple can't, say, confirm with AT&T that the customer is in fact authorized to make changes to the AT&T account.
 
I'm sorry, I didn't read it all. However, couldn't you just order the phone online and have it shipped to your home? That is what I did (pre-order) and I'm not the account holder. You're just going to have to accept the fact that Apple and AT&T cannot accept discounts on iPhones. It is already subsidized. They don't discount further than that.
 
xerenthar said:
it's well known you need to be the primary account holder
Click to expand...

No you don't. I'm a registered holder of the account, yet my mother is the primary holder.

I was able to upgrade my line at the ATT store to a 3G.
Returned it in the 30 window, got my upgrade back as promised.
Went to Best Buy on 3Gs launch day and upgraded to the 3Gs.

My mom was not there.
They pulled up their system
Punched in some doo-dads and what-nots
iPhone in hand.

My mom was not there. They asked for my name and last 4 digits of my mother's social security number.

Can the Apple store really be that different? That doesn't make sense.
 
SuparShadow said:
Well, yes, I certainly realize that now. But having an accountholder and an authorized user in separate locations isn't an uncommon situation, and, frankly, requiring the accountholder to be present is a stupid and arbitrary policy. It wasn't in place with the original iPhone, and AT&T has no problem letting authorized users upgrade. It's just Apple that's being anal retentive about it.

It's poor communication/collaboration between AT&T and Apple at the expense of the customer, frankly.
Click to expand...

When I bought my iPhone 3g last year at an Apple Store, I was an authorized user but not the account holder. Once they realized this the concierge that was selling me the iPhone took me back to the genius bar and had one of the geniuses call at@t, verified that I was authorized and then let me buy the phone. You could try asking them to do this if you go back to try again.
 
There's no logistical reason the Apple store can't allow authorize users to purchase the iPhone.

The best explanation I can offer is speculation involving the subsidized price and the contract agreements, but it would mean AT&T is the party responsible for this asinine policy:

If the customer isn't, in fact, authorized to make changes to the account, then the contract changes could be challenged and voided by the actual accountholder. If the new iPhone contract is invalid/fraudulent, then AT&T doesn't make any money off that two year contract, and AT&T loses the subsidy it paid on the phone.

Apple, however, doesn't lose any money. AT&T already paid its $400 to subsidize the phone, and the customer coughed up the other $199 in-store.

So unless Apple has some kind of unspoken liability here, it only makes sense if AT&T is the one insisting on the policy, which similarly doesn't make sense since AT&T itself will let non-accountholders complete the upgrade in its own stores (and, apparently, Best Buy stores). Unless AT&T just doesn't trust Apple to verify the identity of authorized users. Which is also a big wtf.
 
Unspoken Demise said:
No you don't. I'm a registered holder of the account, yet my mother is the primary holder.

I was able to upgrade my line at the ATT store to a 3G.
Returned it in the 30 window, got my upgrade back as promised.
Went to Best Buy on 3Gs launch day and upgraded to the 3Gs.

My mom was not there.
They pulled up their system
Punched in some doo-dads and what-nots
iPhone in hand.

My mom was not there. They asked for my name and last 4 digits of my mother's social security number.

Can the Apple store really be that different? That doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...

Can you read? The main point of this topic is that you can't at the Apple Store.
 
yeah i got the 3g last year at apple and i am not the primary and i got the 3gs this year at att no problem either time you must have just been unlucky and got a jerk everytime
 
aidricksdad said:
yeah i got the 3g last year at apple and i am not the primary and i got the 3gs this year at att no problem either time you must have just been unlucky and got a jerk everytime
Click to expand...

That's the thing — AT&T will let the non-primary account user upgrade in their store; the Apple Store won't.
 
patrick92260 said:
Did you read my post?
Click to expand...

Yeah; I'll give it a shot, but I'm not sure how effective it will be. I had asked the iPhone specialist if there was a way they could check with AT&T that I was authorized to make changes to the account, and she said no.

And later on when I spoke to the AT&T CSR later on the phone, he even went through the trouble of calling up the Apple Store to try and figure something out, and they still told him they couldn't do it. :/

I even e-mailed the store's general manager, whose contact info I had from the issues with my MacBook Pro... his reply:

SuparShadow, apologies for any confusion that seems to have come up. The iPhone cannot be discounted at all, not even for employees.

While AT&T can allow authorized users to purchase, only the primary account holder can extend or renew a contract at the Apple stores. That seems to be per our agreement with AT&T.

I don't know what else I might be able to do to help with getting your iPhone. We do have good relationships with ou local AT&T stores, so I might be able to assist in that way.

Let me know what I can help with.

Khalil
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like his hands are tied; it's probably not the kind of thing even store managers are supposed to mess with, since it sounds like it might be a corporate policy.
 
you simply need to have your Mom add you as an authorized user. It takes 2 minutes. I had someone pickup my phone on launch day at the Apple store, but I called before they went in and added him as an authorized user...FYI he isnt even on the plan.

Bottom line is Apple didnt screw you, you didnt make a phone call to check the rules prior to going in.
 
My mother is the primary on my account, and I'm an authorized user. I reserved my 3g on the apple website, and when I went in to the Apple store to pick it up once they asked for the last 4 of my social, I gave them my mother's. I had no problems buying one in store without her being there.
 
digitalfx said:
you simply need to have your Mom add you as an authorized user. It takes 2 minutes. I had someone pickup my phone on launch day at the Apple store, but I called before they went in and added him as an authorized user...FYI he isnt even on the plan.

Bottom line is Apple didnt screw you, you didnt make a phone call to check the rules prior to going in.
Click to expand...

I am an authorized user. The point I'm making is that this policy is stupid, and completely counterintuitive to what the Apple "experience" is supposed to be: easy and effortless.
 
SuparShadow said:
There's no logistical reason the Apple store can't allow authorize users to purchase the iPhone.

The best explanation I can offer is speculation involving the subsidized price and the contract agreements, but it would mean AT&T is the party responsible for this asinine policy:
Click to expand...

That's correct.

Per AT&T:
http://www.wireless.att.com/answer-center/main.jsp?t=solutionTab&solutionId=KB90110

How can I add a retail authorized user to my account?

Question:
How can I add a retail authorized user to my account?
Can someone other than the account holder be authorized to go into an AT&T retail location and receive information or make changes on the account?
What identification does a retail authorized user need to get information or make changes on the account?
Answer:
From time to time you may enjoy visiting AT&T retail stores to view and purchase new products. For your privacy and security, we would like to ensure that if someone other than the account holder visits our retail locations they are authorized to receive information or make changes to the account.

For your convenience it is possible for you to designate authorized users from your myWireless Account. Please follow these instructions below:
1. Select My Profile from the manage navigation bar at the top of the page.
2. Select Add New User under the Authorized Users - Retail Store section at the bottom of the page.
3. Fill out the information that is required and select Save Changes.
4. Select Save Changes when you are returned to the Account Information page.
Note: When visiting a retail location, the retail authorized user must provide a Government Issue Photo ID which matches the retail authorized user's name on the account.
Click to expand...

That means AT&T company owned stores.

Per Apple:
http://www.apple.com/retail/iphone/

You will need to be the primary account holder to purchase an iPhone.
Click to expand...
 
What a lot of people don't get is that the apple store doesn't have an interface to AT&T's systems. They can make inquiries into it, but they don't have the interface that say, non-corporate or Best Buy stores have. This is why you can't upgrade unless you are the primary account holder at he Apple store, because Apple has no way of seeing that you are an authorized user.
 
Spectre45 said:
My mother is the primary on my account, and I'm an authorized user. I reserved my 3g on the apple website, and when I went in to the Apple store to pick it up once they asked for the last 4 of my social, I gave them my mother's. I had no problems buying one in store without her being there.
Click to expand...

This wouldn't work in my case; because I'm a guy, and my mom's, well, ... a woman. Plus they asked for my ID.

abiyng87 said:
What a lot of people don't get is that the apple store doesn't have an interface to AT&T's systems. They can make inquiries into it, but they don't have the interface that say, non-corporate or Best Buy stores have. This is why you can't upgrade unless you are the primary account holder at he Apple store, because Apple has no way of seeing that you are an authorized user.
Click to expand...

This is precisely how the AT&T Store rep explained it to me, and is the fundamental flaw in what Apple and AT&T are trying to do here. If they're going to have an exclusive contract to sell this product, and Apple's going to have the authorization to act as AT&T's proxy and mess with people's accounts in its stores, then the two companies need to figure out a way to communicate and access each others' databases in a way that makes this process simple for the consumer. (Isn't that Apple's whole gimmick, after all? Being simple?)

It's not like it hasn't been done — apparently Best Buy and Wal-Mart, etc. are equipped to do it. There's no legitimate reason Apple can't develop a way to do it, too.

And, in lieu of a computer interface that lets them access account information... they should be able to just call up AT&T and confirm whether someone is an authorized user or not. Of course, I don't know what kind of information AT&T keeps on authorized users (for instance, obviously they have the accountholder's SSN, DOB, maybe her driver's license number, etc., but probably not mine), so besides having a matching name and possession of the phone attached to the account, I don't know how they'd make sure that I'm the same SuparShadow as the one on the account, but I think the same problem would apply in an AT&T store, and they don't nearly as concerned about it over there as they do at Apple)
 
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