Apple selling defective MacBooks

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by Macskin, May 30, 2019.

  1. Macskin macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Location:
    UK
    #1
    How can apple get away with selling defective MacBook Pro even there latest MacBook Pro had a defective keyboard they do not tell the customer before they pay out thousands of pounds. The new 2019 MacBook Pro costing from the cheapest MacBook Pro costing £1249 for the 13 inch rising to £2699 for the 15 inch are defective like the ones before. Apple dose have a Keyboard Service Program for MacBook,
    MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro this program is not to fix your MacBook it just replaces your MacBook keyboard with a new defective keyboard it won't cost you anything as long as you are in warranty or you have your apple care. If you are out of warranty and don't have apple care to fix the keyboard problem will cost about £500. If you are in warranty or have your apple care don't think that you are ok once you give your MacBook to apple for the repair they will then go over every bit of your MacBook to find a way out of doing the repair and make you pay.
    Note: If your MacBook, MacBook Air, or MacBook Pro has any damage which impairs the service, that issue will need to be repaired first. In some cases, there may be a cost associated with the repair.
    I have PTSD at times I break out in a full body sweat some of this sweat got on my keyboard and got under the keys it has not activated any water trigger on my MacBook. When I took my MacBook Pro back to apple for the second time for my keys sticking they found the thee water damage from my sweating it has not done anything but gather under some keys now apple say before they can fix the sticky keys I must repair the water damage. To repair the water damage I have to replace the top cover a cost of £500 then apple say they will fix my sticky keys.
    Apple wont tell me in what way the water damage impairs the service of them carrying out the Keyboard Service Program. The one thing I do know if I repair the water damage by replacing the top cover it will save apple from having to do the Keyboard Service Program to fix the sticky keys as I would of just paid for it by replacing the top cover as the keyboard is part of the top cover.
    Once I found out about what apple came to be water damage and to fix it was to replace the top cover I suggested to Apple as the keyboard problem is a defect problem on my model of MacBook Pro and that the defect was a manufacture problem that we go 50/50 on thee repair cost which I think is more than fair. The response from apple was No they will only fix the keyboard after I have payed them to fix thee water damage.

    If you do have this problem and take it to apple for them to fix the problem with another defective keyboard.

    The program covers eligible MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro models for 4 years after the first retail sale of the unit.

    Apple started the Keyboard Service Program 2 years ago. The list below shows all MacBooks covered by the Keyboard Service program. The list also shows Apple have continued selling defective MacBooks

    Keyboard Service Program for MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro
    • MacBook (Retina, 12-inch, Early 2015)
    • MacBook (Retina, 12-inch, Early 2016)
    • MacBook (Retina, 12-inch, 2017)
    • MacBook Air (Retina, 13-inch, 2018)
    • MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2016, Two Thunderbolt 3 Ports)
    • MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2017, Two Thunderbolt 3 Ports)
    • MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2016, Four Thunderbolt 3 Ports)
    • MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2017, Four Thunderbolt 3 Ports)
    • MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2016)
    • MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2017)
    • MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2018, Four Thunderbolt 3 Ports)
    • MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2018)
    • MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2019, Four Thunderbolt 3 Ports)
    • MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2019)
     
  2. x-evil-x macrumors 601

    x-evil-x

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    #2
    while I think it is wrong that they replace the 2016's and 2017's with known keyboard issue years the 2019's and 2018's I think will be fine. They'll upgrade the keyboard on the 2018 to the new 2019's if you have issues. I don't know if the new material keyboards will have many issues and the 4 year support on it is nice. Apple is swapping my 2016 for a 2019 model because of this reason(and motherboard issues) so I can't be too mad about it. If my 2019 does have issues years down the road and Apple swaps that machine also I won't be mad at all. But yes its bad for the early generation computers because they can't upgrade with the new material keyboards.
     
  3. StuKatz1 macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2019
    #3
    As a public company, especially one the size of Apple, neither your board of executives, nor your shareholders prioritize anything higher than profit.

    Clearly Apple has done some in-depth accounting and worked out that even with this keyboard service program in place, this model of MacBook Pro still makes them money (or that the loss is offset by sales of another product: see “Apple iPhone”). If this weren’t the case, it wouldn’t be possible to offer the this MacBook Pro any longer - not just financially, but legally :

    See “Fiduciary Obligation”

    https://definitions.uslegal.com/f/fiduciary-obligation/

    Monsanto, now Bayer, literally prioritized their sales over public and environmental health.

    Who is a broken keyboard killing?

    Welcome to the real world.
     
  4. Janichsan macrumors 68000

    Janichsan

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2006
    #4
    Just to correct this: the point of Apple's repair program is that the replacement of the keyboard is always free, even outside the warranty and without Apple Care.

    That said, you are right: the Macbooks are currently defective by design.
     
  5. Macskin, May 31, 2019
    Last edited: May 31, 2019

    Macskin thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Location:
    UK
    #5
    Apples replacement of the keyboard is free along as apple can't find any excuse not to replace the keyboard as I found out with a £500 bill to replace the top cover to fix water damage that has only affected the keyboard. When I asked to see the water damage and the water tag indicators that were triggered I was told by the apple genies that the water damage can only be seen under UV light. If I pay apple £500 to fix the water damage it lets apples out of doing the keyboard replacement as its part of the top cover.

    As it says on the apple website they will only do the keyboard replacement for 4 years from the day you get your MacBook after that it will cost you to have it repaired.

    The program covers eligible MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro models for 4 years after the first retail sale of the unit.
     
  6. jagolden macrumors 6502a

    jagolden

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2002
    #6
    So happy to still be running my 2010 MBP. Has never failed me and still using original battery.
    Stuck with older operating system but that’s OK since I have some old software that will only run on that old system.
     
  7. Macskin thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Location:
    UK
    #7
    The 2019 MacBook Pro 13 inch and 15 inch was added to Apples Keyboard Service Program on the 21st May 2019 dose not sound like the keyboard upgrade has worked.
    If you do have to take your MacBook to apple for the keyboard service program they do not fix the problem all they do is replace thee keyboard with another defective keyboard only for the first 4 years after you purchase your MacBook.
     
  8. Expobill Suspended

    Expobill

    Joined:
    May 30, 2018
    #8
    I think the keyboard issue had many long time supporters jumping ship as i did. Everyone knows that the keyboards are an issue and skeptical over the reliability of a macbook and chose another brand and even succumbed to using another os environment such as windows which they detested in the past. We do not need a government report or fiduciary study clearing the company of any wrong doing over faulty keyboards. if consumers are not trusting a product, that is enough reason to chose some other product.
     
  9. ascender macrumors 68020

    ascender

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    #9
    Unfortunately Apple have to put water damage indicators in to their hardware, particularly laptops as that's a very, very common accident where people spill liquids over their laptops.

    Its obviously an unfortunate position you've found yourself in, but falling keys is something that will usually happen after spilling liquid on your laptop.

    Have you tried emailing Apple customer services and explaining the situation?
     
  10. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    Boston
    #10
    No offense, but apple isn't really looking for excuses to avoid repairing it, rather that they saw that it had water damage and that voids the warranty. You can't expect apple or any company to fix something for free if it was damaged by the consumer.
     
  11. Expobill Suspended

    Expobill

    Joined:
    May 30, 2018
    #11
    if you have spilled water on your or enemy's macbook, and the dang thing will not power on, just set a screwdriver on 2 connections nodes atop the keyboard ribbon connector upon the logic board until you hear the chime or fan spin.
     
  12. Macskin thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Location:
    UK
    #12
    If the fault in the item pre dates any damage done by thee consumer yes you would expect the company to fix the fault.
    Apple are not fixing the fault they are replacing the keyboard with another keyboard that has the same fault.

    Apple are acting in bad faith not telling the consumer that they are purchasing a faulty product.
    The new 2019 MacBook Pro has been added to the list of faulty keyboards.
     
  13. Audit13 macrumors 601

    Audit13

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    #13
    In the end, Apple is behaving as expected for a big corporation.
     
  14. Macskin thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Location:
    UK
    #14
    When I asked apple to show me the water damage and the triggered water damage indicators I was told by a genius that the water damage and the triggered water damage indicator can only be seen under UV light.

    Failing keys is something that happens when Apple sell a MacBook with a faulty keyboard
     
  15. ascender macrumors 68020

    ascender

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    #15
    But they've no proof that the fault in question wasn't caused by water damage. It doesn't matter what size of company you're dealing with, they have to protect their interests.

    The new MBP keyboard hasn't been deemed as being faulty, but they're saying you can buy with confidence because they'll guarantee it for four years instead of the usual one.
     
  16. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

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    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    Boston
    #16
    It may predate the water damage, but there's no way for apple to know. Its not an ideal situation but many things in life are less then ideal. You can chalk it to bad luck or something but the keyboard may have been failing but with the water damage apple is fully within their rights to refuse to pay for it. Many times, people choose not to exercise their rights in a timely manner and then complain when a company does that very thing.

    No, I don't believe they are acting in bad faith. If they were acting in bad faith then they would be making people pay for the keyboard repairs. Apple has been upfront and they're bearing the cost of the repair which isn't cheap given

    The addition of the 2019 model into the repair program is for peace of mind. Obviously it shows a lack of confidence on their part and I agree the keyboard is flawed but is it bad faith? I don't think so.

    The consumer has responsibilities, there's a saying called caveat emptor - buyer beware. You and I as consumers have to take responsibility for our purchases and doing our due diligence. That is not just mindlessly buying a product that has a fruit logo or because its popular. Knowing that the apple is using the same keyboard that is causing some owners a headache should give a consumer some pause and determine if its worth the risk. This is why apple added the 2019 model into the repair program. It gives the consumer peace of mind that apple is standing behind the product for 4 years
     
  17. redheeler macrumors 604

    redheeler

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    #17
    It's important to remember that the OP's situation (having to pay for an expensive full top case repair) could apply to anyone who still owns one of these laptops after the four year program expires. Considering what a new 15" MacBook Pro costs, I'll be using it for much longer than four years.

    This is definitely a good enough reason to pass on any models with the butterfly keyboard.
     
  18. Macskin thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Location:
    UK
    #18
    Yes Apple are standing behind their product only after a class action suit was filed against them.

    As for peace of mind apple is standing behind the product for 4 years. The product is supposed to last more than 4 years apple do not fix the product they stand behind they replace one faulty keyboard with another faulty keyboard you get the peace of mind knowing its still faulty and its going to need replaced again and again and how long will it take apple to replace your faulty keyboard with another faulty keyboard.

    If apple are selling faulty computers they should tell the customer that they are purchasing a faulty computer.

    European Consumer Rights
    When you buy goods they must be of satisfactory quality as described fit for purpose and last a reasonable length of time.
     
  19. ascender macrumors 68020

    ascender

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    #19
    I don't know if the indicators are visible under normal light or not to be honest, but I'd have insisted they show you. I also don't see why there's any incentive for them to lie to you. I'd go back and speak with a team leader.

    Failing keys is also something which happens if you spill liquid on a laptop unfortunately.

    This situation absolutely could happen to anybody who uses one of these laptops past the 4 year warranty period, but if there's liquid damage, you've still got an issue there which will cost you money. Nobody knows what Apple will do to deal with the keyboard issue past that four year period.
     
  20. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    Boston
    #20
    So my piece of advise then - Don't purchase a Mac, find another computer.

    There's no need to make the font large and/or bold. it seems like you're trying to yell at that point.

    Bottom line is if you feel you have a case against apple, then file a complaint with your local consumer board. Again as I said earlier, you have rights as a consumer, exercise them. Coming here complaining about how horrible apple and not doing anything to resolve it, is pointless. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
  21. Macskin thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Location:
    UK
    #21
    Sorry my mistake I used copy and past and did not know how to change the the text.
    who said I was not doing something about it dose take time following consumer rights.
    Coming on here is also doing something about it its called informing others so they are aware of the defective MacBook and to allow anyone to consider do they want to spend thousands of pounds on a defective computer.
    Apple have just released thee new 2019 MacBook Pro and at the same time added it to the keyboard replacement program. The apple keyboard replacement program now covers MacBooks from 2015 to the present day anyone with a defective MacBook bought in 2015 better best hurry to get it repaired as apple only do the repair free for 4 years.
     
  22. x-evil-x macrumors 601

    x-evil-x

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    #22
    There has been people that have had apple swap their computer after numerous attempts with the keyboard 3+ repairs. So it is possible if these new keyboards turn out to be the same issues you can escalate it with a senior advisor.
    Apple putting this keyboard on the repair list just gives people more piece of mind knowing they are covered if anything happens.
     
  23. Banglazed macrumors demi-god

    Banglazed

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Location:
    Cupertino, CA
    #23
    Apple is being proactive to ensure consumer’s confidence in the 2019 MacBook to cover any defect in the new materials used in the keyboard. By changing the materials used, Apple is aware of the issue and they are making adjustment to resolve it other than doing nothing. You also need to take into account of the Mac user base. If 1 million Macs sold, only a fraction vented frustration or have their keyboard replaced then it does not warrant a recall. Just because you have an affected model, it does not guaranteed you will experience it. There are some users who haven’t experience it. However, there are some unlucky users who had many times. Sure, the keyboard designed maybe flawed. Sure, Apple engineers tested it out but having the product out in the wide enable them to gather more feedback and expose it to other factors where users may use it in various environment. Awareness is always good. At the moment, there’s no reported keyboard issue in the 2019 models.
     
  24. Dave245 macrumors 604

    Dave245

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    #24
    There is no evidence (yet) that the 2019 keyboard will have the same issues! Apple may of fixed it, after all they did make some changes to the keyboard materials.

    Also the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro from 2018, will get the 2019 keyboard if they are sent in for repair.
     
  25. agaskew macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2009
    #25
    If this was a car, instead of a computer, with a known weakness and the offer of a free repair just-in-case, would you buy one? I wouldn't.
     

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70 May 30, 2019