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everywhere i go now, i see things that remind me of new mac pro.

in shopping centre there, that is the new mac pro.

in train station, oh there is the new mac pro.

Trash bin.

whoever approve this abomination should be fired from apple and join microsoft.
 
But will the GPUs be upgradeable ? So many official talk about this machine, and this is still unclear.
 
They're losing me now that I'm finally accepting that there will be no more 17" MacBook Pro. Whatever.
 
I guess my issue with the Mac Pro is that a.) I'm not gonna buy one because I don't need one and b.) it's going to look messy. There's no internal expansion, everything will be external connected via USB or thunderbolt. It's a step backwards from Apple wanting to do away with wires on the desk and things. Although I guess that's not exactly what the Mac Pro is trying to be.

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Jesus this place is moany and depressing these days. People hate EVERYTHING.

I hate you.

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lol the day your grandma comes round and scrapes her plate into your Mac Pro.
 
That's a cool poster. Would look great on my wall although I will never be able to justify owning a Mac Pro.
 
As long as this is not "the computer that we'll be insane to buy" we are good :D
 
Just like iOS was *cough* no flash *cough*

Lack of CUDA support was intentional. It may be harder to kill than Flash was, but we will no doubt see more OpenCL support.

Sorry, the Adobe software I use to make a living runs better on a cheap windows laptop than on my Mac Pro. Lack of CUDA support just made me contemplate updating our bays to PC.
 
I still don't understand why people even talk about complaining about the price. It's for professionals. They have the money to spend on a powerful machine, and it will pay itself off in less than a year.
Apple are using standard parts from Intel and AMD now. Yes, the form-factor of the machine is different, but any PC using the same CPU as the Mac Pro will perform the same. These are not the days of the PowerPC Macs where Apple could justify charging so much.

What I really love is the comments that suggest a comparable PC can be had for 1/3 the price.. get real. By the time you add the GPUs, the most you would save is $400-500. Even if you build your own, you are still over $2k if you have comparable GPUs.
I think you are seriously over-estimating the GPUs Apple has put in this machine.
The D300 FirePro cards Apple are shipping in the base model are essentially an R9 270X, which is a $200 card, and a rebranded Radeon HD 7870 - you can buy those cards for less than $200 now. So call it $350 for the video cards.

A 4770K is a faster CPU than the quad core Xeon (Xeons are a generation behind) and that's $350 or less.
So that leaves $300 for the rest of the PC. Maybe 1/3 was unrealistic, and you could spend half the price of a Mac Pro for a similar or faster gaming PC. Rather than spend $350 on two lower-end cards, it would be better to spend $500 on a GTX 780. (Nvidia cards are far better for gaming)

The Mac Pro is for people doing 3D work.
The funny thing is that due to the announced prices, a game studio I know people from has just decided to go with decked-out iMacs rather than continue waiting for the Mac Pros now.
They need the machines to be running OS X because they also do iOS work, and $3000 for a max-spec iMac gets them a large calibrated display built in, with 32GB RAM rather than 12, and a lot more storage. (256GB is nothing on a workstation)

I'm not convinced it was the right idea going with a GTX 780M rather than the D300 cards in the Mac Pro, but they seem to think it's a better solution for the money.
They figure that once they have outlived their usefulness as workstations, they will be able to get a lot more money selling off old iMacs than Mac Pros. (much bigger market)


At the other end of the scale, I know someone working in video production with a $10,000 budget to spend on his machine this year, and he won't be buying one of the new Mac Pros because it's limited to a single CPU. He would much rather swap out one of those GPUs for a second 12-core CPU.
If he can go from <3fps when encoding on his current machine (a highly overclocked 3770K) to 10fps or more, $10,000 on the system pays for itself.
GPU accelerated encoding is a nice dream, but it does not offer the controls/quality his work requires.

Audio world has been moving to USB for a while now, not even TB bandwidth is needed on that front
One thing people often forget though, is that USB audio typically requires much larger buffers and thus has a lot more latency than PCIe cards. Not many Thunderbolt interfaces exist for audio, and I don't know whether or not that solves the latency problem. Of course not all audio work relies on low latency interfaces.

My wife finally switched from PC Adobe to Mac Adobe (Dec 2012 iMac with the works) ... and can't speak to Mavericks yet, but Mountain Lion out performs Windows simply by being reliable, not crashing and not requiring weekly reboots for this or that.
How old was that PC? Windows has not been like that for more than a decade now.
 
New Mac Mini

I'm gonna get the Mac Pro to replace my aging Mac Mini. I know it is a lot more expensive, but it looks cool and will handle everything I need for many years. That is, if they release updated monitors. I am not a pro user although I rely on my computer for my business for sure.

If I was pro, I would be very disappointed with this offering, just as so many have already voiced. I prefer OSX to Windows. I prefer beautiful hardware to cobbled looking mess that is the PC.

All these things are just my humble opinion of course.

-J
 
anyone who thought that the PCI cards stuffed in their Macs were going to last forever, or change would not happen, it's time.

Bingo. Some people may not go as far back, but I learned my lesson when my expensive PCI cards could no longer be used because the industry switched to PCIe. It's been external ever since for the replacements of those and now I'm in good shape for the next generation, not to mention I figured out doing it that way gave me the flexibility to hook up to laptops and other macs as well.

Absolutely. GPU and eventually CPU. I don't use my computer for work or anything and so I dont really need an excessive amount of storage.

If you "need" to upgrade CPU, what makes you think it will be any harder than the previous MP? Apple has never shipped a mac where they considered the CPU user upgradable yet people have done it on some models anyway. Looking at the picture, doesn't it seem like the CPU is still socketed and not soldered on?

Any other so called "Pros" don't even need this new Mac Pro. An iMac will work fine for them.

Speak for yourself. I know plenty of professionals outside of video that need more than four cores of processing power, particularly audio guys.

if you wish to connect anything to this free and open graphics system you need to use a single vendor, proprietary system that must be licensed and OK'd by Intel

Way to forget that this box has USB3 ports. Not to mention there are TB to firewire adapters available.

It is a somewhat powerful pro computer

The cube wasn't particularly powerful, at the time there were other macs that were more powerful but not much more expensive. Not a real comparison to this new MP since this box goes up to 12 cores and (except for probably the low end) actually does have much more power than any other mac. External ports were also vastly slower than they are now, there wasn't anything that even came close to PCI speeds. And yes I know that PCIe is still faster than TB and there are a few things like video cards that still require PCIe.
 
Besides looking cool, small and sexy, what is better performance wise about this over the same components in a case of conventional design?

Because it will last and not breakdown, or look like a pile like all pc's do. quit being shortsighted.
 
Not talking about the Mac Pro but the poster to the press. Smells like someone is getting very defensive. From a mile.

I think this reflects a change in their approach to advance marketing.

The consumer lineup they can keep secret so that everyone is on tenterhooks until the day of announcement. The pro line needs to be announced in advance and then have a constant flow of teasers leading up the actual launch. IT departments and even the creative types who will use this don't impulse shop.

I think that's also why they let some musicians and filmmakers use the new mac pro for awhile. need to build some excitement especially since it has been a very long time since anything substantial has been done with the pro line up.
 
No better than my Hackintosh...

Really... ok, here's an honest question. Does your Hackintosh have the same memory bus and whatnot to get the full performance out of the CPU and GPUs?

I want to see those specs. Same goes for a build-it-yourself PC. Let's see those specs.
 
So it appears we have a few camps here...

3D dude - MacPro is for them, everyone else just needs toys.
Audio pro - likes the new MacPro, hates the amount of money he's going to spend on cables and expansion cases.
Video pro - similar to audio pro, but more accepting of the new design, since all his storage is external already.
Audio dude - hates the new MacPro because he spent way to much on PCI/PCIe cards, and can't afford to go to external cases (his wife/mom is gonna kill him)
Video dude - not as bad as audio dude, but still really can't afford to change over.
Broke dude - loves the new MacPro, but spews venom about it because he can't even afford a MacMini, posts about how wonderful hackintoshes are, but hasn't built one yet.
Graphics pro - Just wants it to work.
Graphics dude - Is far to pissed about Creative Cloud to get upset about the price, and only really needs to buy one external drive anyway.
Photo pro - converted over to iMacs a while ago, doesn't mind the slow processing, won't buy MacPro due to investment in iMacs
Photo dude - more likely than the photo pro to buy the MacPro, mainly because photo dude has been waiting longer and is working on much older hardware than photo pro.

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The more I think about it, I'd probably go with an iMac, but I just don't trust a built-in-one system.. I remember too many stories about those stupid capacitors, and logic boards cooking. Plus I have no faith in an iMac really lasting 6 years, the way my current MacPro has.
 
I see a lot of comments on here basically saying "for $3000 I could build this, and I could build that"

And what are you going to run on it? Windows Server? Hackintosh? Please...

And for God's sake, where are the actual working professionals to comment in these forums? I want to hear from someone who uses Photoshop and Final Cut Pro X. Tell us YOUR thoughts on the Mac Pro. Why the hell anyone would buy a beautiful piece of hardware like this and then waste it playing World of Warcraft is beyond me...

/rantoff

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So it appears we have a few camps here...

Broke dude - loves the new MacPro, but spews venom about it because he can't even afford a MacMini, posts about how wonderful hackintoshes are, but hasn't built one yet.
Graphics pro - Just wants it to work.
Graphics dude - Is far to pissed about Creative Cloud to get upset about the price...

This made me smile! Thanks for the chuckle!
 
What's innovative about new Mac Pro? They designed cylindrical from factor with a turbine inspired cooling, venting through the top... OK. Custom design proprietary motherboard to fit into small space (ala dome base iMac) - OK. But that's nice for a light consumer computer, where looks are super important. Heck for Apple pro-user, looks are really important. But what does it bring to the usability that pro users need? How does it improve my workflow when I cannot add graphics card, expansion cards, more hard drives - while retaining the elegant minimalistic looks?

Well, for one, a quiet single-fan design. This is incredibly important in recording studios and film editing, two of the main industries for the Mac Pro.

You can add graphics cards, expansion devices, and more drives, but it's external. I know it's a new idea (and change is scary!), but it makes sense. Why build an oversized, heavy tower, and yet be limited to the open space it contains inside?

Here's my own personal case for why I love this: I'm a designer and use do 3D modeling and CAD work. My laptop is slow for rendering. I need as many cores as possible. I also travel a lot between my home in the city and my country house. I have a Mac Pro now, but it's too huge and heavy to transport. This tiny Mac Pro I can literally grab and take it between my homes.
 
And for God's sake, where are the actual working professionals to comment in these forums? I want to hear from someone who uses Photoshop and Final Cut Pro X. Tell us YOUR thoughts on the Mac Pro. Why the hell anyone would buy a beautiful piece of hardware like this and then waste it playing World of Warcraft is beyond me...

i'm an actual working pro and the computers/software play a key role in my process.. and i think the things are super sweet.

i use rhino and some sketchup for designing then indigo for rendering.. the modeling apps use linear processes so you want the fastest singlecore clock available.. indigo is gpu accelerated via cuda or openCL..

so for me, cpu nearing 4.0ghz combined with dual gpu? it's a dream setup.

it's much better/faster/more efficient than running 24 cores (or whatever) at 2.5 ghz during modeling (in which 23 cores will idle) then using those cores instead of more GPU during rendering.

kudos to the apple design team for seeing this and be willing to offer this type of setup for the developers to write for. my main rendering app is already written for openCL so i'm much more welcoming of the new design.. once more devs start catching on, i think we'll see a lot more of these types of configurations in use (non apple products as well).. they have taken pro personal computing into the next decade.. some people just can't see it yet but they will.
 
My wife finally switched from PC Adobe to Mac Adobe (Dec 2012 iMac with the works) ... and can't speak to Mavericks yet, but Mountain Lion out performs Windows simply by being reliable, not crashing and not requiring weekly reboots for this or that.

After almost 20 years on PC, she's really far happier with OS X overall. IMHO, it's certainly worth a few bucks more on the hardware side to get a working and reliable OS.

I know people who use both platforms and Windows 7 gives them no problems with crashing etc either. I was inquiring about actual performance differences.

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The silence?

I haven't heard it yet. Is it that much quieter than the current Mac Pros? Are the current Mac Pros considered too noisy for their intended use?

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Because it will last and not breakdown, or look like a pile like all pc's do. quit being shortsighted.

So then looks are important? As far as breaking down, I would think that most work stations are using components from, Intel, Asus, Nvidia, Samsung, etc. Does Apple use different components? I am not being shortsighted at all. It appears that many are just repeating myths. I asked a legitimate question, why the small round shape, is it for the appealing form?
 
I asked a legitimate question, why the small round shape, is it for the appealing form?
apple has answered that question on their website a while ago.. it's not just marketing hype or whatever.. it's pretty obvious the computer was designed around these points and the size/shape is a result:




(from the macpro site)
-----------------------------------
THERMAL CORE
The new Mac Pro packs an unprecedented amount of power in an unthinkable amount of space. A big reason we were able to do that is the ingenious unified thermal core. Rather than using multiple heat sinks and fans to cool the processor and graphics cards, we built everything around a single piece of extruded aluminum designed to maximize airflow as well as thermal capacity. It works by conducting heat away from the CPU and GPUs and distributing that heat uniformly across the core. That way, if one processor isn’t working as hard as the others, the extra thermal capacity can be shared efficiently among them. No computer has been built this way before. And yet it makes so much sense, it’s now hard to imagine building one any other way.




FAN
An incredible amount of innovation went into designing a fan system capable of cooling such a high-performance device. Instead of adding extra fans, we engineered a single, larger fan that pulls air upward through a bottom intake. As air passes vertically through the center of the device, it absorbs heat and carries it out the top. It’s simple and elegant — and also astonishingly quiet. To achieve that, we had to consider every detail: the number of blades, the size of the blades, the spacing of the blades, and even the shape of the blades. By minimizing air resistance throughout the system, we were able to design a fan with backward-curved impeller blades that runs at fewer revolutions per minute, draws air more efficiently as it spins, and creates considerably less noise.
 
So it appears we have a few camps here...

3D dude - MacPro is for them, everyone else just needs toys.
Audio pro - likes the new MacPro, hates the amount of money he's going to spend on cables and expansion cases.
Video pro - similar to audio pro, but more accepting of the new design, since all his storage is external already.
Audio dude - hates the new MacPro because he spent way to much on PCI/PCIe cards, and can't afford to go to external cases (his wife/mom is gonna kill him)
Video dude - not as bad as audio dude, but still really can't afford to change over.
Broke dude - loves the new MacPro, but spews venom about it because he can't even afford a MacMini, posts about how wonderful hackintoshes are, but hasn't built one yet.
Graphics pro - Just wants it to work.
Graphics dude - Is far to pissed about Creative Cloud to get upset about the price, and only really needs to buy one external drive anyway.
Photo pro - converted over to iMacs a while ago, doesn't mind the slow processing, won't buy MacPro due to investment in iMacs
Photo dude - more likely than the photo pro to buy the MacPro, mainly because photo dude has been waiting longer and is working on much older hardware than photo pro.

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The more I think about it, I'd probably go with an iMac, but I just don't trust a built-in-one system.. I remember too many stories about those stupid capacitors, and logic boards cooking. Plus I have no faith in an iMac really lasting 6 years, the way my current MacPro has.

The new Mac Pro is not great for 3d work. It's expensive for the performance you get.
 
It's been slow on the uptake, but it's happening. Once it reaches a certian point, all it'll take is either Autodesk or, like you said, Adobe to adopt it into their products, and it'll all be downhill from there for CUDA.

Adobe already adopted OpenCL and they joined the OpenCL industry group.

Done deal, just have to update most of the software.

Engineering and scientific application adoption of OpenCL is key to rapid growth and maybe Autodesk will take a lead. More bang for the buck from low(er) cost GPU's than CPU's for number crunching.

In theory, Apple could even use OpenCL in iOS as ARM v8 supports it.

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Expect SAN vendors to add support for Thunderbolt cabling.

One common misconception about Thunderbolt is that it is simply an “external PCI Express”. It is not. Thunderbolt is a super low-latency, high-throughput packet switching fabric with crazy time synchronization capabilities (8 ns). It can support any network topologies, it’s just that Apple only utilized line topology (2 ports) before Mac Pro. Both DisplayPort and PCI Express protocols work over Thunderbolt protocol (with an added twist that Thunderbolt ports can give out DisplayPort signal directly, so a user can attach non-Thunderbolt DisplayPort display).

With Mavericks, Apple has now added a third protocol, IP. It would be trivial for them to add Fibre Channel protocol as well. Fibre Channel already supports Ethernet cabling (FCoE), and it would be even easier for SAN vendors to add support for Thunderbolt cabling (let’s call it “FCoTB”), as Thunderbolt does not have packet congestion problems of Gigabit Ethernet. Since you won’t need to buy expensive FC HBAs or 10GbE NICs, you’ll be getting Fibre Channel for the cost of Thunderbolt cables and you’ll be able to connect a 16GFC link to any Mac with a TB2 port.

I suspect that Apple also took in consideration that many pro's use Mac Book Pro's as well as Mac Pro's; TB2 gives both machines access to the same I/O so the workflow is actually very consistent.

What Apple needs to do, and I suspect is doing, is creating an FCX upgrade that is optimized for OpenCL as well as multiple cores. Then, we can see what this new paradigm of a Mac Pro can do.
 
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