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Apple Sheds More Light on iOS 17.5 Bug That Resurfaced Deleted Photos
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Great comment their reply doesn't satisfy me either, its clear that anyone satisfied with this response has never looked at a line of code in their life, no one cares about why the photos returned or where they were stored.
WHY were they not deleted, files that are truly unallocated do not survive as long as apple and other reports have been saying these photos have remained for, are the same storage and deletion systems used by notes or keychain? From the company that has full length whitepapers for security on their site, this bug needs something around that caliber published.
🤣 That's so typical of Apple. Whenever there's an issue, it always only affects a "small number of users."
Maybe gpat wanted an apology. Let me step in and help Apple out here 🤣
"We are aware that a small number of users are having issues with their
Meanwhile have they implemented anything that now actually erases the ones and zeroes of photos after the 30-day grace or expedited user action? Highly unlikely. And if this is the case on device then it's likely also the case in iCloud. AKA someone else's computer. I agree it's not unreasonable to argue that delete has never meant erase in computer lexicon, but 'permanently delete' really shouldn't have any question marks hanging over it in a digital ecosystem that alleges to be the paragon of data security.
The issue was with local storage. Why would having more of it help?
Here’s what happened:
Here’s why deleted iPhone photos returned to some iOS devices
Apple finally elaborates on the “database corruption” issue.
www.theverge.com
OG analysis:
Inside the iOS bug that made deleted photos reappear
Getting the updates For this analysis, we will use the iPhone 13 as an example to compare the changes made between iOS 17.
I have ZERO faith in their Cloud solutions. In Files, amongst my favourite folders on the left is a folder called “Giant Bomb” where I stored video files from said videogame website…nearly 10 years ago. I ceased using that website years ago, been trying to delete the folder for 7+ years, it goes then reappears randomly even now. Long since given up trying to remove it.
As for the latest issue, the prior update caused my Recently Deleted folder in Files to resurface a load of failed direct downloads of epub files I made about a year ago. They’re still there after the latest .1 update, greyed out, and unable to be deleted. Good work Apple, ha!
As for the latest issue, the prior update caused my Recently Deleted folder in Files to resurface a load of failed direct downloads of epub files I made about a year ago. They’re still there after the latest .1 update, greyed out, and unable to be deleted. Good work Apple, ha!
Well not really.
What 17.5.1 fixed (at least according to reverse engineering) is just that those orphaned images are not getting re-imported into the Photos library anymore.
But the orphaned files are likely still there. There is no indication of any kind of clean up in the reverse engineered code. And it's also not clear why they did not get properly deleted in the first place.
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The mistake you’re both making here is not understanding that the files were never deleted. The photos disappeared from the Photos app database due to whatever “database corruption” happened that Apple described, but the files were never deleted from the file system. This is exactly how they were able to persist across devices via backups, as explained in the article. Everyone talking about deleted files and undeleting dormant data from storage is getting to a level that isn’t relevant to this issue.
We will if it ever gets to a lawsuit. This is basically the same response we had earlier with the only addition being the local backups causing issues.
How many is a small amount of users ? this isn't good yapple .
As an actual software engineer, I am satisfied with their response.
The orphaned images are referenced from both Files and Photos app apparently which is the problem. You can't rationally delete something from one without breaking the other and neither Files or Photos can command the deletion of either authoritatively so the file just stays there. The Photos app as part of the upgrade process will perform a recovery as it has its own state store (SQLite). So it pulled the images on disk back into the app. Managing state is very very complicated!
Notably some points:
Firstly, this update is a mitigation, NOT a solution. It just stops the file being read back into Photos app database and appearing. It does not delete the file. This is intentional and is just to stop the immediate issue from being impacting to users. The actual solution is probably a lot more complicated. Also...
Secondly, I suspect the solution requires a lot of rework. Both the files app and the photos app should have separate containers under the iOS model and it's a bit weird that they don't and it's probably some legacy crap. Adding that probably has a bunch of edge cases which might be difficult to resolve so they can't just rush in guns blazing and fix it completely.
Thirdly, this is nothing to do with iCloud or the cloud. It's all on-device state. All the whining about iCloud is just wrong.
Again, I'm satisfied with their response. Also if you think this is bad, you want to see what **** goes on in financial software that handles trillions of dollars of your money 🤣. Apple's quality and handling of stuff is 1000x better than what's passing your money around...
The orphaned images are referenced from both Files and Photos app apparently which is the problem. You can't rationally delete something from one without breaking the other and neither Files or Photos can command the deletion of either authoritatively so the file just stays there. The Photos app as part of the upgrade process will perform a recovery as it has its own state store (SQLite). So it pulled the images on disk back into the app. Managing state is very very complicated!
Notably some points:
Firstly, this update is a mitigation, NOT a solution. It just stops the file being read back into Photos app database and appearing. It does not delete the file. This is intentional and is just to stop the immediate issue from being impacting to users. The actual solution is probably a lot more complicated. Also...
Secondly, I suspect the solution requires a lot of rework. Both the files app and the photos app should have separate containers under the iOS model and it's a bit weird that they don't and it's probably some legacy crap. Adding that probably has a bunch of edge cases which might be difficult to resolve so they can't just rush in guns blazing and fix it completely.
Thirdly, this is nothing to do with iCloud or the cloud. It's all on-device state. All the whining about iCloud is just wrong.
Again, I'm satisfied with their response. Also if you think this is bad, you want to see what **** goes on in financial software that handles trillions of dollars of your money 🤣. Apple's quality and handling of stuff is 1000x better than what's passing your money around...
So, not a big deal after all... back to our regular programming, folks
You'll likely not experience it at all, as it's rare.
Sort of, but it's almost certainly not related directly to the file system.
See above.
How do you know it isn't? Everyone who isn't affected won't write about it. Humans are pretty bad at statistics.
You don't. It's software.
Ok, so I guess stop buying and using their products. Nothing they could say would make you buy it.
That's the most arrogant sentence I've read today (granted it's only 13:30). I'd say almost the opposite, although that would also be a bit arrogant. It makes perfect sense to me, and I've looked at code for tens of years.
For Apple to have a major catastrophe on their hands.
Did you have any of your older photos resurfaced? I don't think I did, and if the issue were more widespread, we probably would have seen more mention of it online.
"... a corrupted database entry on affected devices was the cause of deleted photos reappearing. In other words, the deleted images that were restored resided locally and never left those devices."
Can someone explain to me, in layman's terms, what a "database entry" is, and what "corrupted" refers to in this context.
And, more importantly, can a "corrupted database entry" really result in files failing to delete and "hiding" on the storage medium.
Does this also mean that these pseudo-deleted photos were taking up storage space, locally, on-device?
To be clear, I'm not saying I doubt Apple's explanation. I'm not an iOS dev.
But couldn't we confirm or deny these claims by going through database entries on any pre iOS 17.5 iPhones? Wouldn't this also reveal why the photos weren't deleted?
Can someone explain to me, in layman's terms, what a "database entry" is, and what "corrupted" refers to in this context.
And, more importantly, can a "corrupted database entry" really result in files failing to delete and "hiding" on the storage medium.
Does this also mean that these pseudo-deleted photos were taking up storage space, locally, on-device?
To be clear, I'm not saying I doubt Apple's explanation. I'm not an iOS dev.
But couldn't we confirm or deny these claims by going through database entries on any pre iOS 17.5 iPhones? Wouldn't this also reveal why the photos weren't deleted?
firstly, the comments in here, oof lmao…some people are never satisfied, good to see Apple properly explaining the issue here. sounds like that Reddit post was some clout bs.
regardless, it sucks still feeling like I gotta wait every time there’s an update to see if there’s some wild bug…as someone who keeps Apple doomsaying to a reasonable minimum, it’s easily the biggest sore spot for their ecosystem. come on WWDC ‘25! since I know yall are gonna spend 90 minutes saying “AI” as many time as possible at this year’s keynote—let’s get a focus next year on software stability!!! (please Tim lmfao I’m begging you)
regardless, it sucks still feeling like I gotta wait every time there’s an update to see if there’s some wild bug…as someone who keeps Apple doomsaying to a reasonable minimum, it’s easily the biggest sore spot for their ecosystem. come on WWDC ‘25! since I know yall are gonna spend 90 minutes saying “AI” as many time as possible at this year’s keynote—let’s get a focus next year on software stability!!! (please Tim lmfao I’m begging you)
Meanwhile the bug that tells my wife’s Find My that I am at the bar and not at work continues to persist
If this was a local drive issue which it sounds like it is, then just get an app like CCleaner to do an overwrite on blank space once in a while.
Honestly I think the best way to understand this is in terms of the iTunes Library on the Mac (which this is conceptually most similar to).
Imagine you have an iTunes Library folder with some songs in it. The iTunes database file in the folder contains pointers to the raw song files. When you use iTunes, it reads the database and shows you songs based on what the database says.
Now let's say you were to delete a song. Normally, iTunes presents you with the option to keep the file on disk or move it to the Trash. You chose to move it to the Trash.
This is where the bug happened: Instead of being moved to the trash (and then being deleted permanently), the file stayed on disk. Now, the database entry for the song is gone -- so you can't see it -- but the file is still there, orphaned on the file system!
Let's also say that over years and years of iCloud backups and restores, the backup code simply copied the iTunes Library folder wholesale without checking the integrity of the database or whether there are any orphaned files.
Now Apple realizes that they are in a pickle: customer devices now have a bunch of orphaned files that have accumulated over the years, and they need to do something about it.
So what do they do? They rescan the folder and reindex any orphaned files in the database.
But uh oh, some of those files were supposed to be deleted! Now the U2 album has reappeared in people's libraries and they are MAD.
Hopefully that explains the issue a little more clearly.
Imagine you have an iTunes Library folder with some songs in it. The iTunes database file in the folder contains pointers to the raw song files. When you use iTunes, it reads the database and shows you songs based on what the database says.
Now let's say you were to delete a song. Normally, iTunes presents you with the option to keep the file on disk or move it to the Trash. You chose to move it to the Trash.
This is where the bug happened: Instead of being moved to the trash (and then being deleted permanently), the file stayed on disk. Now, the database entry for the song is gone -- so you can't see it -- but the file is still there, orphaned on the file system!
Let's also say that over years and years of iCloud backups and restores, the backup code simply copied the iTunes Library folder wholesale without checking the integrity of the database or whether there are any orphaned files.
Now Apple realizes that they are in a pickle: customer devices now have a bunch of orphaned files that have accumulated over the years, and they need to do something about it.
So what do they do? They rescan the folder and reindex any orphaned files in the database.
But uh oh, some of those files were supposed to be deleted! Now the U2 album has reappeared in people's libraries and they are MAD.
Hopefully that explains the issue a little more clearly.