by 1500 dollars at least. it costs more than double than an imac with better spec and performance. what were they thinking? has tim ever used a mac pro in his life???
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MP 7,1 apple should lower the price of entry level mac pro
- Thread starter vir2l2k
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Yes the base Mac Pro is kinda overpriced. Definitely not a good buy if you are not going to expand it.
He earns mios of $ per year. He gives a **** on how expensive a pro tool is and if a "normal" pro can afford it. Those managers lost the ground of normal working people a long time ago.
Apple needs to make a "Mac" and an "Apple" 5K monitor. The MacPro is only for high end video, musik and film producers and only makes sense when extended with higher specs. Apple should not even sell it with the base model, it's just way too expensive then.
While I would like to see a lower price on the 2019 Mac Pro I don't think it's overly expensive. My only issue with the base configuration is the default 256GB SSD. IMO 1TB would be appropriate for such a system but I'd accept 512GB too.
The big thing I like about the 2019 Mac Pro is that Apple is finally back to making a real professional workstation. Professionals no longer need to choose less than ideal solutions such as a Mac Mini or iMac (including the iMac Pro).
The big thing I like about the 2019 Mac Pro is that Apple is finally back to making a real professional workstation. Professionals no longer need to choose less than ideal solutions such as a Mac Mini or iMac (including the iMac Pro).
It doesn’t need a lower price, it needs a higher spec. A 12 core, 512 and 32gb of RAM and a Vega card as a base
It's kinda laughable to even sell a workstation with only an 8-Core CPU and a 256GB SSD. And yet here we are with that option being $5,999.
People keep saying this is for professionals but they stuck a gamer GPU in it, the RX 580 rebranded as a Pro Radeon card. It's the same exact card with a different driver and firmware. It should have come with a Vega with 16GB of HBM2 as standard with an upgrade option to a 32GB card.
The base spec makes no sense, please no one buy the base. Either get the upgraded spec or look at another system entirely in my opinion.
People keep saying this is for professionals but they stuck a gamer GPU in it, the RX 580 rebranded as a Pro Radeon card. It's the same exact card with a different driver and firmware. It should have come with a Vega with 16GB of HBM2 as standard with an upgrade option to a 32GB card.
The base spec makes no sense, please no one buy the base. Either get the upgraded spec or look at another system entirely in my opinion.
Last week I watched a YouTube blogger who asked potential buyers what configurations they were considering. Surprisingly a good number of them stated they were strongly looking at the base configuration. I posted a link to the video in a thread I started so you may want to search the forum for it.
I'm sure many did because it's the cheapest Mac Pro they can afford but it's still incredibly bad value.
the MP 7.1 is not for all
if i was apple i would have used better specs for macpro and not sold under 9.900.-
if i was apple i would have used better specs for macpro and not sold under 9.900.-
I got the impression those who were doing so were satisfied with the configuration of the base 2019 Mac Pro and were buying it for future expandability. Here is the post I am referring to. It's in the second paragraph about Apple Insider:
Some Thoughts on the 2019 Mac Pro
Considering the difficulty in changing the CPU, I doubt many will do it, the CPU has no retention bracket and it's very easy to damage the exposed pins once you remove the heatsink (which grips onto the CPU for this socket).
Considering you physically cant change the SSD yourself due to it being tied to the T2 chip and those SSD's not being commercially available you're kinda stuck there at Apples mercy.
The GPU's and RAM can be upgraded though, no question about that. I'd probably upgrade the memory myself but we're already in at $5,999 at that point. It's a heck of a lot of money for such a basic specification. I mean I almost feel like if you're willing to spend $5,999 on a desktop computer you might as-well go to $10,000 and get it done right from the get go.
They're off their heads.
Honestly, how big is this market they are targeting. There'd have to be what, 50-100 guys working on these Hollywood big production movies in the USA?
How many more realistically in the rest of the world, another 100?
Total market size capacity, being generous, 500?
I've read about 3 people here and other forums who have actually ordered one, the rest are just dreamers.
What's the market capacity for the 'rest of us', the ones who need half of that Mac Pro, ie: $3000, 4 PCI slots, AMD Desktop based CPUs (BTW Threadrippers can take ECC RAM for all those deniers) etc?
Practically everyone who replies to these Mac Pro threads, all the dreamers, all the rest of us who are priced out of the market complaining about the cost of this $6k beats that could be considered nearly obsolete,
10,000, 20,000??
I applaud them for making a 'balls to the wall' beast but it's a strong response to Schiller's FUP with that stupid black can that he was so proud of, but the reality is the market for this Mac Pro is miniscule and I'd be sad if they canceled this project because they fail to achieve the sales they anticipate.
They do need a modest expandable tower to fill the huge chasm between the over priced millionaire toy and the reality of purchasing power of the rest of Mac users needing an expandable tower. Most of us just wanted an updated 2012.
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Whaaaaa??
You really think people are so stupidly incapable and incompetent to change a CPU?
Dude, you, me and many others drive motor vehicles that travel at 100Km per hour, that's considerable more complicated a task than unscrewing two Philips screws, removing a cooler, reading 1 line of instructions that says, "lift pin and remove CPU", "place new CPU in socket and make sure the arrow lines up".
Come one mate, stop discrediting people's ability, when there's motivation to save a shedload of bucks people will find a way to learn something new.
Honestly, how big is this market they are targeting. There'd have to be what, 50-100 guys working on these Hollywood big production movies in the USA?
How many more realistically in the rest of the world, another 100?
Total market size capacity, being generous, 500?
I've read about 3 people here and other forums who have actually ordered one, the rest are just dreamers.
What's the market capacity for the 'rest of us', the ones who need half of that Mac Pro, ie: $3000, 4 PCI slots, AMD Desktop based CPUs (BTW Threadrippers can take ECC RAM for all those deniers) etc?
Practically everyone who replies to these Mac Pro threads, all the dreamers, all the rest of us who are priced out of the market complaining about the cost of this $6k beats that could be considered nearly obsolete,
10,000, 20,000??
I applaud them for making a 'balls to the wall' beast but it's a strong response to Schiller's FUP with that stupid black can that he was so proud of, but the reality is the market for this Mac Pro is miniscule and I'd be sad if they canceled this project because they fail to achieve the sales they anticipate.
They do need a modest expandable tower to fill the huge chasm between the over priced millionaire toy and the reality of purchasing power of the rest of Mac users needing an expandable tower. Most of us just wanted an updated 2012.
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Whaaaaa??
You really think people are so stupidly incapable and incompetent to change a CPU?
Dude, you, me and many others drive motor vehicles that travel at 100Km per hour, that's considerable more complicated a task than unscrewing two Philips screws, removing a cooler, reading 1 line of instructions that says, "lift pin and remove CPU", "place new CPU in socket and make sure the arrow lines up".
Come one mate, stop discrediting people's ability, when there's motivation to save a shedload of bucks people will find a way to learn something new.
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As long as there are no other GPU cards with TB3 output, there is no real market for cheaper and still fast GPUs. The MacPro expandability will always stay very expensive. Is that the modularity we hoped to get from Apple? If you're not really a high end user that really needs full speed CPU/GPU power, you'll never get an even balance on this Mac.
For "normal" pro user it might be better to get an iMac together with a 16" instead.
For "normal" pro user it might be better to get an iMac together with a 16" instead.
I don't think "people" are so stupidly incapable. I think the people who spend $5,999 on this Mac Pro are not in the same circle on a venn diagram as people willing to change the CPU in this system.
They will change the RAM sure. They will upgrade the GPU's sure. But will they be willing to buy a CPU hoping its the right one that works, remove the heatsink without instructions from Apple, remove the CPU from the bottom of the heatsink, re-apply thermal paste etc
Also keep in mind this CPU is a monster. Even enthusiasts have issues with this socket due to a lack of ILM it is difficult to get perfect torque on every screw so that the CPU sits flat in the socket. If any side or corner lifts up you lose PCIe channels, you lose DIMM slots. It's a very finicky socket and Intel recommends using a calibrated electronic screwdriver to maintain even mounting pressure. I'm not saying you couldn't do it with normal tools it's just more difficult and that doesn't lend itself to novices.
I think not even 1% of the people who buy the Mac Pro will ever attempt to do that upgrade where as I think more than half of purchasers will upgrade the RAM themselves and maybe 25% will also upgrade the GPU.
And I think it's easy to do, I build my own PC's I do watercooling including hardline. I do delidding and liquid metal. To me changing the CPU in the Mac Pro is easy as anything. But with all those skills I have I also know to never buy a Mac Pro to begin with.
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And the point is that people buying it are the people who would be expanding it. It's not meant to be a barebones system.
I get why people are upset about that pivot to a high-end workstation when they were happy with the midrange tower Apple made before, but this "it's overpriced" argument just doesn't hold water.
The best-case scenario is can see is Apple ships a variant with half the PCIe and DIMM slots and a limited set of lower-end CPUs in the same shell for a lower buy-in, but I can’t imagine we’ll see a Mac Pro below $4000 ever again… and even if that cut-down version is made, analogous to the differences between the 1S and 2S Mac Pro towers of old, it’s not coming out any time soon. Apple is working on the high end before it drifts down. If the iMac Pro remains a product they’re still interested in (and I think they are given that was their original pro Mac plan) they aren’t going to bother in all likelihood.
And Apple has never made the xMac, never will make the xMac, so the people disappointed they aren't getting one are just loony at this point. Fetch ain't gonna' happen.
Tells people to stop discrediting others ability in the same post where he implies women are inferior drivers. That's an interesting gambit.
HP sells workstations with 1.X GHz Xeon Bronze processors that are slower than the Mac mini's i3 and come with spinning hard drives standard. Obviously markets exist that use those machines, even if that machine is laughable to me.
You are of course totally correct. I'm not saying that there isn't a market. I'm just saying I wouldn't advise people here who aren't part of some huge corporation who is buying it on your behalf to buy it.
You seriously think there are only 50-100 people total working post-production on all the feature films from every studio...?
To be fair (from a business perspective), Apple knows that because of the longevity of this particular product, they need to make as much from the customer as possible as they won’t upgrade for many years. It’s not ‘right’, but it’s common practice.
Its a good point...can you imagine if Apple made an iPhone that had a ~10 year life cycle?
What longevity?
Everything in it is either obsolete or obsolescent today.
The CPU is on a dead socket.
The GPUs are currently 1 generation back and will be 2 generations back by June. The RX 580 came out in 2017, for goodness sake.
The I/O capability is already superceeded. It will be worse by 2021 when PCIe 5.0 drops.
If it had come out in 2016, it would have been a good workstation.
But in 2019, is is a dead end.
Thank you so much for saying this. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I try to explain this and others don't see the same thing.
100% agreed on every point you make.
I can’t think of anything else to add but to reinforce, you’re right, the thing was dated before it even was announced and Intel are way behind in both CPU fab and I/O...PCIe 4 Nvme SSD pulling 4,500GB/sec R/W.
From what I observe it’s the case that’s the single highest element in cost here, that default CPU they ship with is way over valued, typically Apple style.
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Because those details are irrelevant.
You can’t upgrade the processor on a 5,1 Mac Pro beyond a Westmere CPU; you can’t boost its max RAM capacity; you are stuck with PCIe 2. And in the real world that hasn’t stopped it from being an incredibly powerful machine that still gets work down down the line with new PCIe slots. The case will most likely be the same with this one.
When a 5,1 Mac Pro with a modern GPU is within striking distance of modern hardware, it’s clear that the real-world potential of the theoretical bandwidth is not a major limiting factor.
To me they're not irrelevant. I'm not going to spend this kind of money on a system that is already 1.5 years out of date before I even purchase it. Breathing life into an older system you purchased used or one that was top of the line when you bought it is completely different to buying a brand new system at top dollar price for old performance.
I mean to use your own argument against you we should all be buying systems from 1.5 years ago for 20% of the cost of a new Mac Pro and just upgrade those right? - Might aswell it's the same performance.