Apple Silicon Mac Pro Said to Feature Same Design as 2019 Model, No User-Upgradable RAM

[JazzyGB1]

Probably Apple interest sites that don't want to stay in business.

It's pretty clear from comments I've read even on this site that, as a whole, Mac loyalists don't like to hear criticism of Apple from tech reviewers. There's a good reason why Linus Media Group and Mac Address, for example, get an incredible amount of hate in the comments on this site, while sycophantic Apple boot-lickers like Snazzy Labs and Max Tech get the nod as "impartial" Apple reviewers.

I'm not talking about being derogatory or malicious, I'm talking about genuine constructive criticism. Fair, balanced assessments highlighting good and bad and then articulating it when there are changes or omissions that may be to the product's detriment. If when they review a Mac all they mention is the positives then it's not a review at all...it's an advert.
It would also mean that when a product did get a rave review that praised it to high heaven, it would actually have meaning and credibility. An 'Apple enthusiast' website should want Apple to be better where it can be. In recent years Apple has chosen to be petty sometimes and the media silence has been deafening.
I doubt all those who visit Mac Rumors would stop doing so because they highlighted some unnecessary shortcomings of Apple or an aspect of their products every now and then.

 

[JazzyGB1]

Apple used to invent entire new product categories. Just because new Apple products were “derivative” doesn’t mean they weren’t “game-changers” and doesn’t mean Apple didn’t change the industry and change the world (repeatedly).


The Apple ][ changed the world.
The Mac changed the world.
Though commercially unsuccessful, the Newton changed the world.
The iMac changed the world.
iTunes changed the way we consume music (and would lead to how we consume media writ large).
The iPod wasn’t the first digital audio player, but it was seen as “a new invention” and it took the entire world by storm.
The iPhone had things in common with existing mobile phones, but was different enough that it’s largely viewed as “a new invention,” a new product category, and it too changed the world.
Siri was a game-changer (but not lately).
The iOS App Store changed the world and made the word “app” part of popular vocabulary. (“There’s an app for that.”)
The iPad with iOS was widely viewed as a new invention and a brand new product category. It brought an entirely new level of simplicity and ease-of-use that was without precedent.

But Apple today is still coasting on the innovation brought by Apple under Steve Jobs’ Leadership.

Apple has not created a single new product category since Jobs’ departure.

Apple today no longer feels like the pioneering leader it was always regarded as since its inception.

I agree with your sentiment, but it's not entirely accurate...you forgot the Apple Watch, AirPods and AirTags.

 

[R2DHue]

I agree with your sentiment, but it's not entirely accurate...you forgot the Apple Watch, AirPods and AirTags.

AirPods for sure.

Although improved wireless earbuds are not an entirely new product category.

Neuralink is an entirely new product category! (One I’m too ascared to sign on to!)

(But if it can train me — on the spot — to fly a helicopter like in “The Matrix,” I’ll give it a second look!)

 

[Unregistered 4U]

But Apple today is still coasting on the innovation brought by Apple under Steve Jobs’ Leadership.

Apple has not created a single new product category since Jobs’ departure.

Apple today no longer feels like the pioneering leader it was always regarded as since its inception.

And, will very likely continue to do so.

 

[R2DHue]

And, will very likely continue to do so.

I don’t know much about the lore, but I’ve read that Scott Forstall was the closest living human being to Steve Jobs as a Visionary. He was brought to Apple by Steve Jobs from Next and is a super-achieving genius.

But — and again I don’t know why — many others at Apple HATED the man! The man who persuaded Steve Jobs to make “iPhone OS” (as it was called) based on Mac OS X!

The man who convinced Steve Jobs to allow more that just Apple key apps to run on the iPhone and to open it up as a platform for ISVs!

The man who convinced Steve Jobs to create an “iPhone OS” SDK and App Store! (The online store that made “Flappy Bird’s” creator a millionaire in a matter of days.)

The man who played a key role in making Apple the first Trillion dollar company in history!

I remember reading that when it was announced over “the PA system” at Apple that Scott Forstall had been fired, the building erupted in cheers.

That disgusts me: many of the very people who were cheering his summary firing were probably made multimillionaires because of the direct influence of Scott Forstall on Steve Jobs and on Apple.

I’d like to know what he did that was so bad!

 

[pdxrevolution]

At least this means we're not getting Trashcan 2.0.

It's funny because the Mac Studio is the Trashcan 2.0: Lots of power that you expand by external Thunderbolt connections. Costs roughly the same as a Trashcan 1.0, too. Personally, I love both trashcans.

 

[AppliedVisual]

Apple GPUs are fine for the products they’ve used them in so far… but they don’t really hold a candle to the AMD and NVIDIA high end offerings.

But what if they scaled them up to do just that? Apple still makes the most powerful by watt GPU core. Sure, the M1 Ultra's integrated GPU isn't going to stand up against an nVidia 4090. The point is, what if Apple creates their own GPU modules for the Mac Pro? Not just integrating GPU into the SoC package. What if they bring us a PCIe 4 GPU with 128 of their GPU cores and 32GB of dedicated RAM. What if we could could add 2, or maybe 4 of those into a system like the Mac Pro?

I know I'm just spitballing here, but Apple has already proven they are capable of making a damn good mobile GPU implementation that was running circles around the competition of the time, competing with upper mid-range desktops.

OK, I'm actually betting on them running their own GPUs in the new Mac Pro.... Why go back to AMD? And nVidia is almost certainly not going to work with them.

 

[MacBH928]

They still use Apple Shake.....😁

ayyay yayay yay... for people who pay $50K for a computer surely the hardware that runs Apple Shake is no longer sufficient nor the software runs on current MacOS +hardware...AFAIK!

 

[AppliedVisual]

It's funny because the Mac Studio is the Trashcan 2.0: Lots of power that you expand by external Thunderbolt connections. Costs roughly the same as a Trashcan 1.0, too. Personally, I love both trashcans.

The Trashcan Mac Pro never got a fair chance as Apple [unintentionally, I think] crippled it right from the start. I think Apple missed the mark there in several ways... Interesting design and it had a lot going for it, but pricing was wack and they chose the wrong hardware. The design/implementation could have totally worked as just a Mac and not a Pro. If it was priced back down to earth with a desktop class CPU normal RAM, etc.. I think they could have sold a lot of them.

The Mac Studio is a great system. As mentioned in my other post way back though, the pricing on RAM and SSD upgrades are insane and what has kept me from buying one. And I suspect a lot of other people too. I'm holding out to see what the new Mac Pro brings us.

 

[nicolas17]

No user upgradable RAM? Is this a joke???

There's no way to get the memory performance of M1/M2 otherwise.

 

[kwikdeth]

But what if they scaled them up to do just that? Apple still makes the most powerful by watt GPU core. Sure, the M1 Ultra's integrated GPU isn't going to stand up against an nVidia 4090. The point is, what if Apple creates their own GPU modules for the Mac Pro? Not just integrating GPU into the SoC package. What if they bring us a PCIe 4 GPU with 128 of their GPU cores and 32GB of dedicated RAM. What if we could could add 2, or maybe 4 of those into a system like the Mac Pro?

I know I'm just spitballing here, but Apple has already proven they are capable of making a damn good mobile GPU implementation that was running circles around the competition of the time, competing with upper mid-range desktops.

OK, I'm actually betting on them running their own GPUs in the new Mac Pro.... Why go back to AMD? And nVidia is almost certainly not going to work with them.

a few things-
the problem there is exactly same reason why Apple decided not to pursue the idea of an M2 Extreme cpu. it would have been insanely expensive to do that and the price point of the product would have been out of reach except for the highest profile business customers. The cost of engineering a solution like that would have likely been on par with trying to engineer an M2 Extreme and ended up with the same result - way too expensive to make it worth the effort.

Apple shot themselves in the foot by sabotaging their relationship with nVidia. nVidia was more than happy to work with them, but Apple had issues with nVidia's business practices (that's a topic for a whole different discussion) The D-series GPUs (which were derived from Radeon HD7000-series cards) always ran really really hot. When nVidia came out with the Maxwell-series GPUs which delivered way better performance-per-watt, they would have made an ideal replacement for the D-series GPUs, and we would have gotten more timely updates with the Trashcan.

 

[Realityck]

a few things-
the problem there is exactly same reason why Apple decided not to pursue the idea of an M2 Extreme cpu. it would have been insanely expensive to do that and the price point of the product would have been out of reach except for the highest profile business customers.

Thats just more recent speculation about not pursuing that. Likewise the thought that the next SoC family of capable of multiple performance steps would be M3 rather than the M2. We are all in the dark. Hopefully someone will turn on the lights in the near future!

Apple Mac Pro's M2 Extreme SoC to Reportedly Pack 48 Core CPU, 152 Core GPU

Reports suggest new Mac Pro could launch in 2023.

www.tomshardware.com

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I don’t know much about the lore, but I’ve read that Scott Forstall was the closest living human being to Steve Jobs as a Visionary. He was brought to Apple by Steve Jobs from Next and is a super-achieving genius.

All you need to know about how much Scott Forstall was like Steve Jobs is to look at the history of the computer company that Scott founded after he left Apple.

That disgusts me: many of the very people who were cheering his summary firing were probably made multimillionaires because of the direct influence of Scott Forstall on Steve Jobs and on Apple.

I’d like to know what he did that was so bad!

Well, some of us have known executives that mainly have their jobs because the CEO is friendly to them. You put talented people under a caustic personality, they’ll still do amazing things, there will just always be some useless drama keeping them from doing their absolute best. There’s a fine line between being hard to work for and being impossible to work for.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

But what if they scaled them up to do just that? Apple still makes the most powerful by watt GPU core.

Apple’s GPU’s are fine. Developers are still learning how to take advantage of the unified memory and those that are are reaping the benefits. Anything cross-platform likely has been tuned for GPU’s that perform IMR rendering and it’s going to take awhile before it’s as performant as a TBDR solution.

The point is, what if Apple creates their own GPU modules for the Mac Pro? Not just integrating GPU into the SoC package. What if they bring us a PCIe 4 GPU with 128 of their GPU cores and 32GB of dedicated RAM. What if we could could add 2, or maybe 4 of those into a system like the Mac Pro?

Taking what Apple has created as a GPU (that depends on access to CPU memory) and moving it to PCI would yield a worse solution all around, though.

Look up the bandwidth of PCI is versus the bandwidth between Apple’s GPU and memory.

 

[aibloop]

Apple will CRUSH 2023!

Mac Pro will be a thing that comes out for sure! Along with AR/VR glasses whatever. It will be a thing.

They will have 3nm cpus! And mostly only apple will have them in 2023… Who knows what else! Oh golly!


Where is all the excited speculation of what stuff could come? Have you guys forgot how it feels like to speculate on apple stuff that actually CAN be interesting? And now it is more likely then in a loooong time that they could drop something actually interesting (somewhat) As opposed to during intel era. And you guys are just like "oh is a rumour that ram won’t be upgradable… I am switching to pc buhuu" Who cares, switch all you want!

I am on Macrumours for some interesting fancy speculation on what is in the horizon for the trendsetting computing company Apple. I get doomsayers on every other platform, why do people insist on typing out doom and gloom here too?

This IS an Apple product enthusiast forum, why does the word ”enthusiast and apple fanboy" get thrown around as if it is something to be ashamed of? I am excited by apple tech and I have been since 1992.. I was a fan before Steve Jobs re-entered the scene. I’ll be a fan of what apple means to me no matter what. Ofc I understand that Apple is a faceless behemoth that would grind me up and sprinkle my ashes on their crap if it would make them more money.. But I remember the magic of my 1st scrollwheel ipod… I remember the dazzling design of the iMac… I remember the reality distortion field. And I can’t help but want that magic to exist in the world and change it for the better!

Yeah, you know what.. I think the Mac Pro will be fine… But I hope it hooks up to the AR/VR glasses and Apple shows something really cool again. I want some fool at Apple doing a live presentation of something cool that brings back the ghost of Steve Jobs, and leaves me excited for the future.

 

[rumplestiltskin]

I'll buy a nicely equipped Lenovo desktop and a 16" Lenovo (or LG) and pocket the remaining $2000. (From an old Apple sales exec).

 

[aibloop]

What if the 2 slots are silicon interconnects? You can buy 2x more M3Ultras and slot it in after the fact… That would be cool AND it would address both RAM/CPU/GFX expandability.

That would be an actual win for Apple in Pro space.

Base config is 1 M2(M3?) Ultra. upgradable to 3xM2Ultra.


And next year you could slot in the next gen M3Ultras… Only 4999$ per CPU… xD

 

[AL2TEACH]

the pricing on RAM and SSD upgrades are insane and what has kept me from buying one. And I suspect a lot of other people too.

👍

 

[AL2TEACH]

I understand that Apple is a faceless behemoth that would grind me up and sprinkle my ashes on their crap if it would make them more money.

😂 Gawd, the best line in this whole forum.

 

[quarkysg]

They're typically still seen using Macs though, and often the high-end models/configurations. Why? Really, a combo of not believing Windows is as stable/reliable and a familiarity using Mac OS.

I always thought that creatives uses Macs because Macs tend to be more consistent with colours compared to the Windows world, likely due to the variety of displays used in the Windows world. I understand that for creatives, colours from design all the way to print has to be consistent or it will be money wasted.

 

[quarkysg]

I would like to see data on how unified-memory stands up against errors, I am sure there is a difference, but I would like to see data.

UMA does not dictate error rates. The type of memory paired with the memory controller does.

Servers uses ECC memory that their memory controller depend on to detect bit flips. IMHO, all computers should come with ECC memories, but it will invariably increase cost.

 

[atonaldenim]

There is a software issue that you are not really covering.

Very legitimate reasons why AMD GPUs would be a very tall order on current Apple Silicon. Replicating a UEFI and negotiating GPU hierarchy for iOS/ARM-only apps seem like tricky problems, but not completely insurmountable. Whether or not Apple has that much interest in truly maximizing GPU performance on the next Mac Pro, it’s not clear.

Gurman says Apple Silicon Mac Pro will support GPU expansion cards, maybe the simplest answer is they do, but only Apple’s own GPU. The one with raytracing that was too power hungry it had to be last minute cut from the iPhone 14 SoC. Maybe even dual or quad GPU configs like current AMD options can scale up. That way they stand some chance at meeting or maybe exceeding the top GPU configs of the last model. And it lessens the sting of losing access to AMD options.

The cost of engineering a solution like that would have likely been on par with trying to engineer an M2 Extreme and ended up with the same result - way too expensive to make it worth the effort.

CIRP report says July-Sept 2022 the 2019 Intel Mac Pro sold 10x the 2022 M1 Mac Studio or 2021 M1+Intel Mac Mini. Maybe it was a weird quarter, maybe their data are bit off, but that shows the Mac Pro is a good deal more popular and important for Apple’s business than I or most would imagine. And it suggests there is plenty of demand for its current feature set, even though buyers are well aware that the Intel architecture is deprecated and the Mac Studio now offers much better performance per dollar. There’s revenue in these high end machines.

 

[quarkysg]

What if they bring us a PCIe 4 GPU with 128 of their GPU cores and 32GB of dedicated RAM. What if we could could add 2, or maybe 4 of those into a system like the Mac Pro?

Highly unlikely IMHO, purely from a Metal perspective though. It appears that the UMA is here to stay and discrete GPU cards having their own memory violates the UMA programming model. Very unlikely Apple wants to devote development resources for both models.

 

[Boil]

I know folks will start crying about the second GPU in the 6.1 Mac Pro and how it was essentially useless, but; iGPU for display, GPGPU(s) for compute/rendering...

Between Apple silicon, Metal API, and individual software development; Apple enables real-time (ray-traced...?) rendering in the viewport of your favorite DCC software, and with one or more ASi GPGPUs, you get accelerated compute/render jobs queued up and churned out...?

M3 Extreme Mac Pro with integrated personal compute cluster/renderfarm...? ;^p

 

[Artemis70]

No, they've painted 3 corners of the room (iPad, MacBooks, Mini/Studio) run out of paint and are wondering whether they can get away with a rug and a potted plant in the 4th corner (Mac Pro).

I understand your reasoning. But I do not fully agree. Apple hasn't only painted themselves into a corner for these extreme Pro users. The design clearly has it's advantages, but it comes at the cost of flexibility. I realize that Apple is not the company for many choices. And this may be the best choice for Apple. For some users however, the lack of flexibility is not as nice. For example, I'm not happy that I needed to get an M1 Max to get access to 64 GB of memory. I do need the memory, but I do not need the CPU power. Hell, Apple has done such a good job that I don't even need the CPU power of a M1 Pro. I hardly ever get the CPU utilization over 10% on the M1 Max. It was "only" 230 euro's more for the M1 Max, so not the biggest deal, but still .....