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My mid 2011 MacMini also has 8GB, and works just fine. No idea what the fuzz is about if one only uses it for light stuff. Max open apps are:
Safari
Mail
Firefox
Contacts
Calendar
Notes
iPhoto
MS Excel
some Garmin apps

Cmd-tab and I'm good. No waiting whatsoever.
I'm guessing you're on an older version of MacOS (and also no Apple Intelligence obviously).

8 GB is fine for my kitchen computer which is a 2013 iMac, but it's on an older MacOS (Monterey), no Apple Intelligence, and even if it does slow down I can just attribute it to the age of the computer.

I would expect better from a new Mac though. Macs aren't cheap and should provide a good experience for years to come, the fact that 2011 and 2013 Macs are still in use is proof they can given the right specs. I believe the base Mac mini on 16 GB can do that, assuming the usage stays pretty light. And you aren't horrible at closing browser tabs like I am.
 
They sell base models at the lowest price possible and use the upgrade options only a certain percentage of users actually buy to subsidize it all. The best selling Mac is always the entry level air.

Apple is not subsidizing the base models. The profit is bult into the price.
I don’t think Remy149 is saying Apple is selling base config at a loss, just less profit than Apple’s target profit percentage—but that it’s made up for with higher than target profit on higher configs (albeit at less volume), which I think is obvious and everyone can agree on. I don’t think “subsidize” necessarily means starting from no profit at all.
 
That was exactly my point, people make it sound like it's the end of the world if the system swaps. I know very well I have too little RAM to run all those processes in RAM. But as a casual user, it is a non-issue that it swaps a little. People seem very gung-ho about having enough RAM that their system never swaps, and I'm sure it's very important for some use cases. But for the use I just described, it makes zero real world difference, at least for me. Would I notice if Safari was a little snappier? Maybe. Is it an issue? No. Is it a difference I want to pay more money for? Hell no.

I keep reading these horror stories about people's systems reporting errors and shutting down apps, etc. Maybe it just showcases how much of a casual user I am, but I simply can't get my computer to do it, with the apps I use. I probably could if I started 3 games at the same time, or tried to do gaming while batch-converting files or some other stupid ****, but that is very far outside of how I use my computer.
I guess if you're the type of user that upgrades every 3 years, not a big deal. For me, I use it until it dies and swapping at day 1 is unacceptable since it will get to the unusable stage much quicker than if there were enough RAM (especially with how much Macs cost these days to get the longevity options).
 
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Anecdotal evidence to be sure, but my own experience:

I bought my 2010 Mac Pro in 2011 with 8 GB. Didn’t take long to have issues with that. Eventually added 2 more 8 GB sticks and 24 GB made it run much smoother. My normal memory load is around 16-18 GB. If I buy an M4-based Mac of any kind, given Apple AI needs it will have at least 32 GB.

Even with 24 GB you can have issues. I recently upgraded to the latest TechTool Pro version and ran a scan for the first time in a long while. Woke up the next day to all sorts of pop-ups saying I’d run out of memory and the disk was full. Looked in /private/var/vm and found 41 x 1 GB swap files, all but one of which with recent timestamps. Apparently TechTool Pro’s Disk scan phase ran amok and caused the system to start swapping like mad.

I keep my Macs for a long time (all my personal/work Macs are from 2010-2013). ”Buy as much RAM as you can afford” has been my touchstone for years.
 
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IMG_9504.gif


JUST WANT TO KNOW HOW MUCH MEMORY I NEED TO PLAY CYBERPUNK AT 60 FPS ON 5K MONITOR WITHOUT LAG.
 
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A few years ago I got the base model M1 MacBook Air but got 16GB of RAM instead of 8, easily the best decision. Limited storage is manageable with an external drive, iCloud sync, and a NAS, but inadequate RAM on a Mac is a lifelong handicap
Even back in 2012 when I bought the first 15" retina MBP you could read up about life expectancy of a 256K SSD be shorten by increased memory swap because of 8GB RAM config. Yes it was all soldered on the CCA back then.

So I got a 16GB/1TB config. I actually hung onto that laptop until the 2021 M1 Max MBP showed up. Amazingly that 2012 model had 7 years of MacOS updates and 2 more years of Safari updates, MacOS patches.

So yes those options diffidently made a difference rather then a lifelong regret using the laptop.
 
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I'm pretty sure I know how much RAM I'll need in the M4 Mini I'm planning to buy. However, the big wild card as I see it is Apple Intelligence. It really appears that the main reason they made the minimum RAM spec 16GB was because 8GB was just not enough for Apple Intelligence. Does that mean I need to add 8GB onto what I think I need? Crap!

I was going to wait until early next year to purchase but am going to have to keep a close eye on availability as the Trump Tariff's are going to make absolutely everything unaffordable come late January early February next year.
Trump will not be in office until late January 2025 and it will take some time to implement his tariffs with their concomitant increases in costs of products we use. Plus he could change his mind if some entity pays him well.
 
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I'm guessing you're on an older version of MacOS (and also no Apple Intelligence obviously).

8 GB is fine for my kitchen computer which is a 2013 iMac, but it's on an older MacOS (Monterey), no Apple Intelligence, and even if it does slow down I can just attribute it to the age of the computer.

I would expect better from a new Mac though. Macs aren't cheap and should provide a good experience for years to come, the fact that 2011 and 2013 Macs are still in use is proof they can given the right specs. I believe the base Mac mini on 16 GB can do that, assuming the usage stays pretty light. And you aren't horrible at closing browser tabs like I am.

Yup, that's an older computer, used by an older man. But my 2020 M1 Mini also has 8GB, and I use the same apps, and also has no issues in slowing down.
 
WOW! That’s a really UNINFORMED post. It’s crazy reading this on a Mac focused web. You are recommending people to waste more than they need. No, no, no! Macrumors, what a disappointmen.

Right? Here I am heavily multitasking on a machine with only 16GB of DDR3.

90% of people are good with 16GB of RAM. If you somehow need more, well, you'd know if you need more and wouldn't need a guide like this would you?
 
Right? Here I am heavily multitasking on a machine with only 16GB of DDR3.

90% of people are good with 16GB of RAM. If you somehow need more, well, you'd know if you need more and wouldn't need a guide like this would you?
My favourite is the "192GB: industry professionals dealing with mission-critical,"

I mean, it could also be some no-name basement dude, mining bitcoins. Am I right?
 
Well would you look at that, apple agreed with me that 8GB of RAM is nowadays too low for a proper PC in 2024. It's always better to have more memory over faster memory so you can run applications and games.

"8GB of RAM being good enough for me" as one user suggested earlier only works as an argument if you plan to release low-cost technology, which Apple isn't doing. I wouldn't call the M4 Mac Mini a budget computer. It's 750 euros where I live. Fortunately, it's one of the stronger competitors for that price.

And even with low-cost technology they are selling phones for cheap, especially in China.
 
This guy, Howard Oakley, used Macs for several years and has an expertise on MacOS (IMHO).


To resume, yes, unified memory is faster but it’s a myth that you need twice the amount on an Intel or AMD machine… or that 8gb unified = 16 gb Windows.
 
I guess if you're the type of user that upgrades every 3 years, not a big deal. For me, I use it until it dies and swapping at day 1 is unacceptable since it will get to the unusable stage much quicker than if there were enough RAM (especially with how much Macs cost these days to get the longevity options).
It's less about how often I upgrade, and more about me being a casual user. I'm willing to bet that my casual use with swap is less weary for the SSD than a power user with no swapping. To give you an idea of how much I use my Mac, I literally charge it probably once a week on average, and very rarely use it plugged in. And, just because it has a swap file open, doesn't mean it's reading and writing to it constantly. I think people are overthinking this, in the context of casual use. For power users or even just "average" users, I'm sure it's very beneficial to avoid swap. For casual use, it's a non-issue.

Keep in mind, 50% of the users use their computer less than the average user.
 
This guy, Howard Oakley, used Macs for several years and has an expertise on MacOS (IMHO).


To resume, yes, unified memory is faster but it’s a myth that you need twice the amount on an Intel or AMD machine… or that 8gb unified = 16 gb Windows.
The linked article does not back up that statement. I disagree, but not because Apple Silicon magically uses RAM different, but due to the overall speed difference. A Windows machine simply is behind in some key areas of performance, which means that to get a similar overall experience of using it, it needs a head start in other areas. If you compare a Mac and a Windows with similar RAM using non-GPU intensitive tasks, the Mac kills the Windows computer. Especially if running battery powered, where many Windows computers will throttle. So the Windows computer needs something to make up for the lost ground. That doesn't mean that more RAM in the Mac doesn't make a difference, of course it does.

I own an 8GB M1 Air, and a 16GB Lenovo of about the same age and price, and the M1 Air is provably faster at several tasks that you would consider memory intensive. The only area where the Lenovo is sometimes faster is opening apps, which is hard to compare directly since the apps are different on the different OS's, and also much less annoying than stuttering when skipping through slides in a powerpoint.
 
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Can someone explain the markup on RAM? How does something that costs less than $5 end up costing $1000? The prices below are spot so I assume that large companies like Apple have contracts that likely lower the cost even further.

Obviously there are integration / manufacturing costs for Apple but I can't imagine those costs taking a $5/chip to $200/chip.

https://www.trendforce.com/news/202...igns-of-loosening-likely-to-persist-until-q4/

View attachment 2447222

Your comparison is off: a Gb is not the same as a GB.

Heck, most people don't even know that a bit is an abbreviation/portmanteau.
 


When choosing a new Mac, one of the most important decisions you'll make is how much memory to configure. This guide helps you to work out how much RAM you need.

apple-silicon-feature-joeblue.jpg

With the advent of Apple silicon and its unified memory architecture in 2020, the traditional understanding of RAM has evolved, leading to new considerations for users when selecting a memory option. Unlike traditional PC RAM, where separate components like the CPU and GPU each have their own dedicated memory pools, Apple's unified memory architecture allows all processing units to access a single, shared pool of high-bandwidth, low-latency memory.

As a result, in Apple silicon systems, data doesn't need to be copied between multiple memory areas, significantly improving speed and power efficiency. By uniting memory, Apple devices with this technology theoretically deliver superior performance across multitasking, creative workflows, and demanding applications while minimizing the latency typically associated with data transfer between separate memory types. With the optimizations of macOS, this means that less memory can go further than before, for most Mac users.

All Mac models now start with 16GB of memory, up from 8GB, with the option to upgrade to higher configurations with build-to-order models. However, choosing to do so can add considerable cost to the base price of a new Mac.

To help you make the best choice for your workflow and budget, here's a breakdown of who should choose each memory tier currently available in the entire Mac lineup and why it may be the right fit for you:

  • 16GB: General users, students, and professionals with standard workloads should opt for 16GB. This configuration is perfect for those who primarily browse the web, stream content, use productivity apps, and perform multitasking. Thanks to the performance of Apple silicon and the efficiency of macOS, 16GB is more than sufficient for a smooth experience with everyday tasks.
  • 24GB: Users who need slightly more headroom for multitasking and moderate creative work should consider 24GB. This tier is ideal for those who work with slightly heavier applications such as video editing, gaming, graphic design, or coding but do not push these tasks to the absolute extreme. It provides an additional buffer for users who run multiple intensive apps simultaneously and perform more multitasking than what 16GB can handle comfortably.
  • 32GB, 36GB, or 48GB: Professionals engaging in intensive creative workflows, such as video editing in 4K, music production with multiple tracks, or large-scale coding projects, should opt for 32GB, 36GB, or 48GB. These configurations suit users who frequently use memory-heavy applications like Adobe Creative Cloud apps, Xcode, or virtual machines. It provides sufficient power for consistent performance without frequent reliance on disk swapping, even under substantial workloads.
  • 64GB: Power users and creative professionals who manage high-resolution media and extensive multitasking should choose 64GB. It is ideal for those working on large 3D modeling projects, editing 8K video, or handling complex simulations and data analysis. This memory quantity should support running multiple virtual machines or advanced software development environments without any slowdown.
  • 96GB: High-end creative professionals and developers handling intensive projects involving large datasets or media should consider 96GB. This tier offers significant overhead for those who need more than 64GB, ensuring seamless performance when editing multiple streams of high-resolution video, detailed 3D rendering, or working with substantial datasets that need to be kept in active memory.
  • 128GB: Professionals in specialized fields like film editing, data science, or engineering should look at 128GB. This memory configuration is designed for workflows that involve extremely large projects and require vast amounts of data to be kept in active memory. It is perfect for those working on high-resolution visual effects in cinema, simulation-based software, or advanced scientific computations, providing robust multitasking and peak performance across demanding tasks.
  • 192GB: Enterprise-level users, researchers, and industry professionals dealing with mission-critical, memory-intensive applications should opt for 192GB. This option is suitable for large-scale data processing, machine learning, or AI development, ensuring maximum efficiency and reducing the need for data swapping between RAM and storage. It is also ideal for developers working on complex server-side projects requiring powerful single-machine testing.

With Apple silicon's Unified Memory Architecture and macOS's efficient memory management, the base 16GB configuration now meets the needs of most users, providing a good balance of cost and performance for everyday computing tasks and moderate creative work.

The increasing importance of demanding artificial intelligence features like Apple Intelligence and the potential for more intensive applications over time mean that those with more demanding workflows or plans for longevity should consider upgrading the memory. Opting for 24GB or 32GB can provide an added buffer for the future, supporting heavier multitasking, creative software, and emerging AI features. Higher configurations, such as 64GB or more, are better for professionals in fields that require significant data handling, including video production, 3D rendering, and machine learning.

For users who already own an Apple silicon Mac, it will be worthwhile to evaluate your current system's performance to determine whether you'll need more memory next time around. Consider whether your current memory configuration handles your typical workload efficiently or if you experience slowdowns during multitasking or when using resource-intensive applications. Ultimately, your decision should balance your current workload, any anticipated future requirements, and cost—especially since adding memory can be expensive and it cannot be changed after purchase.

Article Link: Apple Silicon Unified Memory: How Much Mac RAM Do You Need?

To @HartleyChart


When choosing a new Mac, one of the most important decisions you'll make is how much memory to configure. This guide helps you to work out how much RAM you need.

apple-silicon-feature-joeblue.jpg

With the advent of Apple silicon and its unified memory architecture in 2020, the traditional understanding of RAM has evolved, leading to new considerations for users when selecting a memory option. Unlike traditional PC RAM, where separate components like the CPU and GPU each have their own dedicated memory pools, Apple's unified memory architecture allows all processing units to access a single, shared pool of high-bandwidth, low-latency memory.

As a result, in Apple silicon systems, data doesn't need to be copied between multiple memory areas, significantly improving speed and power efficiency. By uniting memory, Apple devices with this technology theoretically deliver superior performance across multitasking, creative workflows, and demanding applications while minimizing the latency typically associated with data transfer between separate memory types. With the optimizations of macOS, this means that less memory can go further than before, for most Mac users.

All Mac models now start with 16GB of memory, up from 8GB, with the option to upgrade to higher configurations with build-to-order models. However, choosing to do so can add considerable cost to the base price of a new Mac.

To help you make the best choice for your workflow and budget, here's a breakdown of who should choose each memory tier currently available in the entire Mac lineup and why it may be the right fit for you:

  • 16GB: General users, students, and professionals with standard workloads should opt for 16GB. This configuration is perfect for those who primarily browse the web, stream content, use productivity apps, and perform multitasking. Thanks to the performance of Apple silicon and the efficiency of macOS, 16GB is more than sufficient for a smooth experience with everyday tasks.
  • 24GB: Users who need slightly more headroom for multitasking and moderate creative work should consider 24GB. This tier is ideal for those who work with slightly heavier applications such as video editing, gaming, graphic design, or coding but do not push these tasks to the absolute extreme. It provides an additional buffer for users who run multiple intensive apps simultaneously and perform more multitasking than what 16GB can handle comfortably.
  • 32GB, 36GB, or 48GB: Professionals engaging in intensive creative workflows, such as video editing in 4K, music production with multiple tracks, or large-scale coding projects, should opt for 32GB, 36GB, or 48GB. These configurations suit users who frequently use memory-heavy applications like Adobe Creative Cloud apps, Xcode, or virtual machines. It provides sufficient power for consistent performance without frequent reliance on disk swapping, even under substantial workloads.
  • 64GB: Power users and creative professionals who manage high-resolution media and extensive multitasking should choose 64GB. It is ideal for those working on large 3D modeling projects, editing 8K video, or handling complex simulations and data analysis. This memory quantity should support running multiple virtual machines or advanced software development environments without any slowdown.
  • 96GB: High-end creative professionals and developers handling intensive projects involving large datasets or media should consider 96GB. This tier offers significant overhead for those who need more than 64GB, ensuring seamless performance when editing multiple streams of high-resolution video, detailed 3D rendering, or working with substantial datasets that need to be kept in active memory.
  • 128GB: Professionals in specialized fields like film editing, data science, or engineering should look at 128GB. This memory configuration is designed for workflows that involve extremely large projects and require vast amounts of data to be kept in active memory. It is perfect for those working on high-resolution visual effects in cinema, simulation-based software, or advanced scientific computations, providing robust multitasking and peak performance across demanding tasks.
  • 192GB: Enterprise-level users, researchers, and industry professionals dealing with mission-critical, memory-intensive applications should opt for 192GB. This option is suitable for large-scale data processing, machine learning, or AI development, ensuring maximum efficiency and reducing the need for data swapping between RAM and storage. It is also ideal for developers working on complex server-side projects requiring powerful single-machine testing.

With Apple silicon's Unified Memory Architecture and macOS's efficient memory management, the base 16GB configuration now meets the needs of most users, providing a good balance of cost and performance for everyday computing tasks and moderate creative work.

The increasing importance of demanding artificial intelligence features like Apple Intelligence and the potential for more intensive applications over time mean that those with more demanding workflows or plans for longevity should consider upgrading the memory. Opting for 24GB or 32GB can provide an added buffer for the future, supporting heavier multitasking, creative software, and emerging AI features. Higher configurations, such as 64GB or more, are better for professionals in fields that require significant data handling, including video production, 3D rendering, and machine learning.

For users who already own an Apple silicon Mac, it will be worthwhile to evaluate your current system's performance to determine whether you'll need more memory next time around. Consider whether your current memory configuration handles your typical workload efficiently or if you experience slowdowns during multitasking or when using resource-intensive applications. Ultimately, your decision should balance your current workload, any anticipated future requirements, and cost—especially since adding memory can be expensive and it cannot be changed after purchase.

Article Link: Apple Silicon Unified Memory: How Much Mac RAM Do You Need?

To @HartleyCharlton

The sentwnce above really should be edited, regardless of the focus of Apple products being discussed here, since we're focusing on architecture details. It would be best to rephrase or rewrite the following:

As a result, in Apple silicon systems, data doesn't need to be copied between multiple memory areas, significantly improving speed and power efficiency.

Maybe as such, considering Aplle is not the only SoC designer, nor have the only Arm desktop SoC and computing platform, nor OS. I mention this as future context for others here will help to not only understand, but also reference should leaps and bounds occur on either major SoC and upcoming competition, especially if architecture changes. The X Elite is also an Arm SoC that has Unified Memory.

Consider:

In systems with Apple silicon and other ARM-based SoCs featuring Unified Memory Architecture, data doesn't need to be copied between multiple memory areas, which significantly improves speed and power efficiency.

Cheers.
 
As much as you can put to use and afford. And, if you can afford some more, then get at least 50% more spare capacity for future needs.
Nah, this is such a stupid mindset. It's not like you get to buy 1 computer for your entire life. Buy something that will fulfill 95% of your anticipated use over the next 3 years or so. Put the extra money you would have used for "future proofing" towards the next one.

Same deal for anyone thinking they need to buy the pro over the regular for purely future proofing. Do the people who bought a previous Pro feel the need to upgrade to the M4 base? No. Probably not. If they would've just bought the non pro model of theirs though, they would have saved the money for the base AND they still might not need to upgrade.

The next gen will 100% beat the current gen in a price to performance ratio. With apples pricing ladder, it makes no sense to try to get ahead to skip the next gen.
 
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