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Apple Smart Home Display: Everything We Know
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I've said it before, saying it again:
HomePadOS
An iPadOS stripped down to its bare necessities for use with HomeKit. And in such a way that it can run on almost any iPad. Especially when there's no HK camera in use, even the first gen iPad could be used for HomeKit controls. But it really makes sense to reuse 3 to 8 year old iPads, instead of dumping them on the landfill.
Apple should release an all-in-one homekit device that include:
- WiFi router
- Smart Speaker
- HomeKit Hub
- SmartDisplay
I have 30 Nanoleaf Essentials bulbs that talk over thread, and I have never had a problem with any of them. I have a second 2.4GHz VLANed SSID for my few WiFi HomeKit devices and I never have a problem with them either. Those I know that have problems with their HomeKit gear have overloaded WiFi networks that do not support a separate VLANed SSID for their devices. Could be something else, but I have no evidence that it is.
This makes sense to whom? Why would Apple develop software that runs on hardware they no longer make (that would require drivers and support for super limited systems), that does not even properly address the requirements for the market they are trying to serve? You yourself even point out the limitations of such a system (“Especially when there's no HK camera in use”). In addition, it would not have a:
- Presence sensor to automatically turn out.
- Would not have a clear way of keeping it powered without working about batteries aging and expanding/failing.
- Would require a whole set of different mounts for all the different versions, and software support for all the different screen formats.
Not very likely. Very old iPad hardware would have many parts that are no longer available and would require a redesign, eliminating all the benefit of using that design.
It will not be an iPad, but it might be priced around $329, the price of a current iPad.
Apple stopped supporting iPads as Home Hubs, because they had so many support issues with people who could not understand why the could not access their HomeKit devices remotely because they had taken their Home Hub with them from the house. It is unlikely that they would want to replicate this issue again, so I would be surprised if they did let it be an iPad.
Which “Pod” silently died? HomePod mini is still selling well and they have just introduced a new full-sized HomePod. Would you enlighten us as to the sales numbers for the Google Home?
Yup, they are exactly the same thing. Everyone but you is just too stupid to see it.
Apple introduced HomeKit 9 years ago in 2014. Please tell me which sensors stopped working because Apple stopped supporting them? There should be at least 3 if not 4 sets by now.
At what point should we expect this to happen? Now that they got the rest of the industry to adopt the core of HomeKit and its most important requirement - local control, so we do not need manufacturer services to enable us to talk to our devices. Already we have experienced the benefit of this approach. iHome stopped supporting their device, but it still works fine for HomeKit users, as it does not need iHome’s cloud infrastructure.
Not sure when Apple ran over your dog, but your position is not only paranoid, it is demonstrably false. Unlike Amazon’s and Google‘s original solutions, HomeKit (and now Matter) required local control. This has many benefits:
- One does not need internet access for one’s smart devices to function.
- One does not need to rely on the device’s manufacturer to continue supporting a cloud based service for one’s smart devices to function.
- By adopting Thread instead of Zigbee or Zwave, they even eliminated the requirement for a bridge manufacturer to continue to update their bridge for one’s smart devices to function.
Happened to iPod Touch and that is the exact opposite as a redesign would be. That would be literally selling old s***
I did not say it has I said it's dying. The main issue is that people use their phones for everything - if not, the watch or a tablet "at worst".
Making an extra gadget that does literally the same thing is redundancy upon redundancy, hence people won't buy what they aready have.
This is also deeply rooted in "how smart of a smart home do people really need or want". It's like buying a gigantic set of tupperware then using it once then losing interest or what's worse - the lacking need or practicality.
I don’t care either way if they release a dedicated product like this for home kit devices- but didn’t Apple just stop allowing an iPad to be a home hub? If this is why then that’s a bit of a cheek.
One to rule them all
Maybe it'll be a little gold ring you wave around your hand with , begone siri !!!?
Maybe it'll be a little gold ring you wave around your hand with , begone siri !!!?
Duh! I've long since mounted an iPad mini 4 to the side of my fridge with a power cable running around the back of the fridge. I then keep the Home app running all the time, enabling me to use the iPad mini as a control panel for my home.
While I'd love to have a HomeKit-specific display to replace the Echo Show I now have in my kitchen, whatever AAPL comes up with needs to at least match what the Show can do. One specific necessity in my case is the ability to easily set multiple simultaneous timers and have them displayed on the screen—AT THE SAME TIME. As others have said, it isn't the hardware, it's the software. An existing iPad with a simple mounting system that provides power will suffice—WITH THE PROPER SOFTWARE! Is that too much to ask? I think not.
While I'd love to have a HomeKit-specific display to replace the Echo Show I now have in my kitchen, whatever AAPL comes up with needs to at least match what the Show can do. One specific necessity in my case is the ability to easily set multiple simultaneous timers and have them displayed on the screen—AT THE SAME TIME. As others have said, it isn't the hardware, it's the software. An existing iPad with a simple mounting system that provides power will suffice—WITH THE PROPER SOFTWARE! Is that too much to ask? I think not.
I would switch over to HomeKit, or Home, or whatever Apple calls it this week, if only I could get Siri to just do a command and be done with it. This is not to mention the stupidly complex need for two or more different sets of scripting languages to do what I want done.
Let's compare Alexa, and Home(Kit) with Siri set to the Irish male voice.
Me: "Alexa, Bed Time" (a night time shutdown routine I have.)
Alexa: Dah-ding.
Me: Hey Siri. Bed Time (this is presuming I can figure out the ferschulgginer different scripting things required to do what Routines can do in one)
Siri: "On it!" (time passes...) "Done!" (or, Siri tells me in a verbose way that it has run the Bed Time Script)
Let's compare Alexa, and Home(Kit) with Siri set to the Irish male voice.
Me: "Alexa, Bed Time" (a night time shutdown routine I have.)
Alexa: Dah-ding.
Me: Hey Siri. Bed Time (this is presuming I can figure out the ferschulgginer different scripting things required to do what Routines can do in one)
Siri: "On it!" (time passes...) "Done!" (or, Siri tells me in a verbose way that it has run the Bed Time Script)
From a environmental stand point, it makes perfect sense to reuse older iPads. Many old models aren't sold anymore but still do get OS updates. Also from a technical standpoint the "requirements" for controlling HomeKit devices are not that extreme that only new hardware could do the task.
The answereisn't always selling more hardware.
I am pretty sure that is incorrect for Thread, as it is IPv6 based, so there is nothing that inherently prevents it from communicating with the outside world, other than one’s router not supporting IPv6 routing and possibly one’s Border Gateway not assigning one’s devices routable addresses.
Thread is actually much nicer than Zigbee as it is IPv6 based (making it much easier to debug - standard IP tools work), and it enables systems without a single point of failure (as one can have many Border Routers on one’s network, unlike Zigbee’s requirement for just one).
VLANing one’s IoT WiFi/Ethernet has an other advantage - reliability. Keeping one’s traffic isolated from non-HomeKit devices makes one’s connections more reliable (in my experience).
Yes they are, but @nt5672 will make it clear that Apple will still monitor these devices through other means (possibly via his fillings).
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Thanks for the info!
I'll have to look into the part about Thread devices being able to communicate with the outside world. What you're saying makes sense, but I was sure I had read that that particular advantage of Zigbee had been maintained with Thread devices somehow. However, it sounds like you have a deeper understanding of it than I do, so I'm thinking you are probably correct.
IPv6 is nice for Thread, and being a newer version of Zigbee (kind of but not really but kind of) I would EXPECT Thread to be more modern, but things like IPv6 and "debuggability" are definitely not end user oriented benefits. They're definitely behind-the-scenes improvements. Which certainly do LEAD to better end user experiences, but indirectly.
If I understand correctly, Thread only ever has one active Border Router, but another Border Router CAPABLE router can take over if the primary one were to cease functioning... In any event, yes, this is definitely another improvement compared to Zigbee with the single Coordinator it uses. But again, being a newer standard which used Zigbee as its starting point, I would definitely expect Thread to be more advanced.
Similar to the IPv6 and debugging comment above, your method of VLANing your HomeKit network is excellent and completely true, but only something a very small subset of users would be capable of doing. I'm pretty technical myself, but I decided against it. Primarily because I have essentially zero HomeKit-related issues with my LAN/WAN and devices on it. I do use a rather powerful router (by Mikrotik) and I think the biggest benefit to HomeKit is that through my router I assign static IP addresses to EVERYthing on my network. So since I'm not well versed in setting up VLANs, and I have no issues with my IP network, I decided it wasn't the best use of my time -- for now. It's filed away in the back of my mind if needed in the future, though!
Zigbee isn't going anywhere, at least for a while. I'm open to migrating to Thread, but I do have literally hundreds of Zigbee devices in service, so I like many people will still be using it for a while. I am very happy with my Zigbee mesh (I use Homebridge/Zigbee2MQTT and have found it to be excellent) and so I tend to get Zigbee devices for as many things as is possible. I actually have only a small handful go WiFi HomeKit devices in use. (Primarily because they are higher data rate, like cameras.)
Thanks again for the deeper explanation of Thread!
One does not have to give one's Thread devices public IPv6 address, nor does one have to route that traffic if one does not want to do so. Matter requires support for local control, but it does not ban network control.
I think it is funny that Zigbee was promoting a non-standard addressing scheme as a benefit. All their non-standard scheme meant was that everyone had to develop a full custom stack, rather than being able to use standard networking code (that has been part of every major OS for more than a decade). It also meant that there were no standard tools to debug network issues. These are both negatives, not positives.
I totally disagree that these are not end-user benefits. One of the biggest issues with Zigbee is the inability to understand why devices do not have connectivity. There are a million network testing tools one can get for iOS/iPadOS/macOS that help end users understand what is happening.
I think understanding why one cannot connect to a device is pretty direct.
IPv6 has been a standard since 1998. Zigbee has been a standard since 2004. Thread uses 802.15.4 radios, something that Zigbee also does, but Thread did not use Zigbee as its starting point. Zigbee decided to roll its own networking layer because they thought they could do a better job and that their system would be lighter weight. Turns out they were wrong.
My understanding of the protocol is that every Border Router is active at the same time, but traffic between devices on the Thread network and the rest of the network will pick a route for a particular session unless the Border Router fails. I have not spent a lot of time working on it, but that is my understanding.
If you are not having problems, I would not worry about it. My response was targeted to those who complain about connection issues.
Of course not.
Zigbee is to Thread what Zeroconf is to UPnP. There is a reason there are a million different and incompatible Zigbee standards. The reason to only buy HomeKit or Matter certified Thread stuff moving forward is that one is no longer dependent on someone else to support one's devices and one can use encrypted communication, something that is not always true with Homebridge.
No problem. Happy to help.
Seems like an iPad can already do this. I wish Apple would just release the Home app for the Apple TV and also let us update our Apple TVs from the Home app like we can with HomePods.