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Apple Still Considering 3rd Party iPhone App Development?

There are a lot of companies who would dearly love to develop iPhone apps. Symbian is an absolute bitch to develop apps in. However, iPhone - ObjectiveC isn't that difficult <cry /> because it would be so cool to be able to write apps for the iPhone - on OSX.

If Apple did loosen their grip then it'll be a great thing , definitely.

iPhone has already has affected the cell phone market... no doubt about that, even if its been dismissed by the relevant people.

EagerDragon said:
I see and respect each and every one of your arguments, and normaly would agree with each of them.

However Apple right now has the phone closed, and none of those players can develop for the iPhone at this time.

Maybe you are correct, but I expect them to keep a firm and almost absolute grip at first and loosen their grip a bit at a time as times go by and they have more time to build more protections in their OS code.

I can not be sure at this time if the ARM chip they are using can protect memory or do virtual memory, so I have to assume that the chip they are using does not. Also Apple stated that they were worried about 3rd party applications adversly affecting the phone and possibly also affecting the user experience. If they are worried I have a tendency to believe that the ARM chip does not have the protections needed to isolate the apps so that the app can crash without affecting other apps or the OS. If that assumption is correct, I expect them for a time to have an IRON Grip.

Yes I am making assumptions JUST LIKE EVERONE ELSE in this forum. None of us has the facts.

As before .... I could be wrong, but that is my opinion and some of the bases of that opinion.

Yes I expect it to soar and to drive the market, the other phone manufactorers are running scared. I do not expect it to flop in the least.
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Stella said:
There are a lot of companies who would dearly love to develop iPhone apps. Symbian is an absolute bitch to develop apps in. However, iPhone - ObjectiveC isn't that difficult <cry /> because it would be so cool to be able to write apps for the iPhone - on OSX.

If Apple did loosen their grip then it'll be a great thing , definitely.

iPhone has already has affected the cell phone market... no doubt about that, even if its been dismissed by the relevant people.
Click to expand...

Absolutly, however Apple is used to build devices that just works. They are afraid of instabilities created by someone elses code. For now they will go with baby steps and harden the OS and hardware of the phone.
 
GanleyBurger said:
How I'd love to be at an Estate Sale with an iphone, checking out current Ebay auction prices for stuff.
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Wouldn't you be better off with one of the already released smartphones with 3G Internet?

If anyone else in the auction has a Windows Smartphone with EV-DO, you'll lose your shirt ;) !
 
pcp_ip said:
A good list of Treo 3rd party apps that are missing from the iPhone is here.

What would have happened if only Apple provided the apps for the Mac? It would have stunted Mac penetration. There's a reason Apple hosts the WWDC. 3rd party developers are extremely important to the success of the platform.
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A phone in 2007 is not the same as a computer in 1984. They are different situations, and the need for apps on a computer does not prove the need for apps on a phone.


pcp_ip said:
You personally may not need more than a iPhone with Safari. However I think you'll find there's a lot that people using WinCE, Symbian and Palm based phones that rely on them to accomplish tasks that can't done by just Safari and dashboard widgets. There's a market out there for inventory applications, bluetooth barcode scanner support, RFID scanners, custom CRM applications and POS integration just to name a few.

There's hundreds of these apps on the other smartphone platforms, and if Apple wants to take on the business smartphone space (and not just the comsumer ipod lover space) they'll need more than Exchange server support in mail. They'll need to allow 3rd party developers to build custom solutions for enterprise customers. Apple shouldn't waste resources building all the bells and whistles... let 3rd party developers like dataviz provide the Office compatibility the iPhone needs to appeal to big business.

It's a no brainer. Build the platform, let developers cater it to every conceivable market for you.
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I personally DO want freedom to make and install ANY app without limit. But I'm guessing that a lesser stance will please most users--and serve Apple sales best too--by making a more stable and consistent user experience.

I can just imagine reviewers saying "the iPhone sounds great at first, but when adding additional apps it falls flat. Many don't support pinch zooming. Some scroll one way, some another. Some block notification of SMS and voice mail. Some remember their state when you switch to a call, some don't. Some flat-out crash. The awesome experience Steve Jobs showed us is true--for the stuff that comes WITH the phone. Otherwise, Apple simplicity is out the window. Maybe. Or maybe not. Do you feel lucky? I just want my phone to work ALL the time." That may be a path worth avoiding.

I don't think Apple is going after "inventory applications, bluetooth barcode scanner support, RFID scanners, custom CRM applications and POS integration" nor the "business smartphone space." They don't have to--they are going after a market that's not quite the same one any other phone is made for. It's a cross-section that will take a little from lots of phone segments, including a lot of people who had no interest in a "smart phone" before somebody made it this easy.

Remember how people didn't understand the market for the iPod when it came out. But the market was there after all! I predict the same "surprise" success for the iPhone, even if it does not fit into existing molds or markets.

I hope it has total developer freedom (for my sake) and I hope that freedom doesn't backfire they way I expect (for most other users' sake and for Apple's).
 
Stella = Negative Nellie: Hell, I'm a cynical bastard and you make me wanna hang myself from the chandelier!

On a side note, if Apple were to develop a good API for the iPhone, there would be little need for 3rd party App QA. Java for instance, at least on the Applet side, is a good item to take notes from. Java can do some fairly amazing stuff, but an Applet cannot pwn your system. A java application is another matter, but that's off topic. A well designed and implemented API would ensure that applications that people make can't do things that they're not supposed to.
 
guzhogi said:
For 3rd party apps, doesn't GCC let you compile for ARM procs? If so, then it shoud be easy to set it in xCode or whatever.
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ARM-GCC alone, without access to information about how to link against the Embedded OSX services (such as whatever implementation of Carbon/Cocoa happens to be on the thing) or information about the start-up code required by the OS loader, is impractical.

Pretty much all you could do in that state would be to write an entirely standalone application (literally from the ground up: hardware drivers, graphics primitives, everything) which would be incapable of coexisting with the iPhone's original OS.

Then it would just be a matter of getting your app onto the iPhone.
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There's another trick... If Apple goes ahead with the idea of requiring all "official" add-on applications to be released through their own quality control process, then they will probably include some means of encryption or digital signatures, which would be illegal to crack.
 
We all can continue to wish upon a star and bitch that the phone needs to run any and all applications written by any garage programmer. In principal that is fine, but in reality is not about to happen any time soon.

The OS on the phone unlike on a laptop, probably lacks some of the hardware protections needed to isolate applications from each other and applications from the OS. This could be because the ARM chip does not support it or it could be because most of that code was strip out as the phone was meant to only be programmed by Apple at this time.

Until Apple can feel confortable to let the worst programmers lose on the phone, Apple is not going to let people in general (no matter how good) play with the innards of the phone.

There is also the controls, all apps need to behave the same and appropriatly implement all gestures. This means that programmers need to be trained not just given an API, and that the APIs need to be solid and implement most of the code needed for those controls as to eliminate variants.

Dream all you want, Apple is not about to open the phone until it knows it is safe to do so. In the short term I expect a certification process that may even include a code review and some QA, those that pass will be allowed to sell their software via iTunes, and iTunes will be the ONLY way to install code on the phone. All software will like be Digitaly signed by Apples QA team, without the signature the code will not run on the phone to prevent unauthorized software but also to prevent viruses and other malware from running on the phone.

Apple not only wants to control what good programmers can do with the phone, they also want to control what hackers can do to the phone. Apple does not want the mess we see with some of the other phones and viruses.

Please understand that the phone is getting ready to blow away all the previous records of revenue for Apple. The iPod did a good job, now is the time for the phone. This baby, if done right can signify 100 to 500 million units sold in a year. This represent huge revenue stream to Apple and the carriers.

They are not going to let you muck around with the innards until they know it is safe to go in the water. The phone is going to be their largest source of revenue. Possibly 2 to 4 billion in revenue when all incomes are considered.

Give them time, when it is safe they will let us in. Mean time it will come out of the box with most of what we need and the rest will be provided by select developers that are willing to jump thru a series of hoops. They will be rewarded by their efforts as Apple will advertice and sell the software for them (via iTunes), to millions of users.

Its coming, have patience, it is way too much money to gamble with. Baby Steps.
 
Prediction: The phone will be even nicer in their next version, as it will support more international standards, will have more and better applications, will integrate GPS and will have a camera facing the front for video ichats. Remember that patent of a screen that can also see the person viewing the screen? That may be perfect for this.

Video ichats will not only make a better way to comunicate, but it will also make the phone useful to people with disabilites as they will be able to see each other and use sign language.

The porn industry will also love/adopt the video form of iPhone.

It may take 4 years but I see Apple selling 100 to 500 million units a year. Think of the revenue. If the phone is sucessful, the stock will go thru the roof, 100 dollars for the stock today is high, tomorrow it may be considered peanuts. We are at a new begining.
 
For some perspective: I am a college junior. I am a business student and switched to the Mac in 2004. I have the basic LG phone Verizon gives out when you sign up for a basic plan. I only take calls on my phone, no TXT or any of that. I have played with Blackberries and even got my boss set up with one, it was fun to play with but certainly felt like a phone bursting at the seams. Skip forward to today and I am genuinely interested in iPhone. I cannot wait to play with one in the Apple store the day it is released. First I love the fact I can have all my contacts with all their info and pictures with me at all times that is super easy to traverse. The email and web browsing looks fantastic. WiFi is everywhere on campus and doing a little RSS reading on the quad would be quite nice or right before class.

I have never cared about my phone or doing anything but take calls on it because I knew the other apps on phones sucked. They have been getting better, but compared to what? The crap that was on phones the year before. They have always been a compromise and it didn't seem worth it, now it looks like it will be worth it. Apple is not going to play the same game Nokia and Motorola and Symbian and Palm have been playing. They could not convince people like me that smartphones were worth it so they did everything they could to convince "Enterprise" that they had the perfect solution for them. They have been able to sell to enterprise well but it is a game to the bottom due to the corporate mentality of more for less. Apple wants the teens, 20 somethings, and adults alike to step up to a full featured phone which they have always wanted but never really found.
 
05elstonc said:
For some perspective: I am a college junior. I am a business student and switched to the Mac in 2004. I have the basic LG phone Verizon gives out when you sign up for a basic plan. I only take calls on my phone, no TXT or any of that. I have played with Blackberries and even got my boss set up with one, it was fun to play with but certainly felt like a phone bursting at the seams. Skip forward to today and I am genuinely interested in iPhone. I cannot wait to play with one in the Apple store the day it is released. First I love the fact I can have all my contacts with all their info and pictures with me at all times that is super easy to traverse. The email and web browsing looks fantastic. WiFi is everywhere on campus and doing a little RSS reading on the quad would be quite nice or right before class.

I have never cared about my phone or doing anything but take calls on it because I knew the other apps on phones sucked. They have been getting better, but compared to what? The crap that was on phones the year before. They have always been a compromise and it didn't seem worth it, now it looks like it will be worth it. Apple is not going to play the same game Nokia and Motorola and Symbian and Palm have been playing. They could not convince people like me that smartphones were worth it so they did everything they could to convince "Enterprise" that they had the perfect solution for them. They have been able to sell to enterprise well but it is a game to the bottom due to the corporate mentality of more for less. Apple wants the teens, 20 somethings, and adults alike to step up to a full featured phone which they have always wanted but never really found.
Click to expand...

Yes the phone is intended to be Viral specialy to the young generation that spends most of their day on the phone text-ing and talking. The iPhone intends to move them to the next level, finaly PDA like devices will have their day.
It is meant for the "Social" thing.
 
SPUY767 said:
Stella = Negative Nellie: Hell, I'm a cynical bastard and you make me wanna hang myself from the chandelier!

On a side note, if Apple were to develop a good API for the iPhone, there would be little need for 3rd party App QA. Java for instance, at least on the Applet side, is a good item to take notes from. Java can do some fairly amazing stuff, but an Applet cannot pwn your system. A java application is another matter, but that's off topic. A well designed and implemented API would ensure that applications that people make can't do things that they're not supposed to.
Click to expand...

ROTFL. I'm not that bad :). But Apple's ( over ) controlling nature does make me fear the worst...!

Unfortunately, Apple have said already - No Java.
 
EagerDragon said:
Yes the phone is intended to be Viral specialy to the young generation that spends most of their day on the phone text-ing and talking. The iPhone intends to move them to the next level, finaly PDA like devices will have their day.
It is meant for the "Social" thing.
Click to expand...

maybe...but I'd like FireFox on my iPhone :)


(Well maybe, I use mostly Apple Apps, but I'd still like to see 3rd party Apps for the iPhone)
 
zap2 said:
maybe...but I'd like FireFox on my iPhone :)


(Well maybe, I use mostly Apple Apps, but I'd still like to see 3rd party Apps for the iPhone)
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Replacing the built-in browser with a 3rd-party one is not a customization I am eager to have. The features of the built-in Safari look really great. Simple, uncluttered, efficient, suitable for the small size, yet still very capable. (Auto-column zooming, etc.)
 
Does anyone know if MS Remote Desktop Client will be on the iPhone? That and viewing pdf's / word docs via Preview are about the only complicated things I do with my current pocketpc that I would really like to see on the iPhone. I would really like to see a list of actual shipping apps on the iPhone 'before' the day of release so I can decide if I would get it.
 
jamesarm97 said:
Does anyone know if MS Remote Desktop Client will be on the iPhone? That and viewing pdf's / word docs via Preview are about the only complicated things I do with my current pocketpc that I would really like to see on the iPhone. I would really like to see a list of actual shipping apps on the iPhone 'before' the day of release so I can decide if I would get it.
Click to expand...

Not sure anyone can answer your questions with ceirtainty, I do not know.
 
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